ZED!

I just had to do that!

That is too delicious… Talk about karma…!

Considering the makeup of the US House and Senate… I wonder if an American wrote this… or Chinese Chicago School grad?

No, talk about won ton soup!

It is stupid. China needs the US as an importer not competition as an exporter. It is irrelevant. More likey China will need its dollar reserves to bail out its own economy.

CT,

Karma is a cast-iron bitch. I’m not really too into being on the receiving end of it.

Talk about believing six impossible things before breakfast…

Digg it if you can!

Nor I for that matter…!

So, Ian, are you saying that China is recommending the USA for The Shock Doctrine?

So, Ian, are you saying that China is recommending the USA for The Shock Doctrine?

About 8 years too late if they are.

Consider that the US dollar is linked directly to the currencies of Costa Rica and Nicaragua. The currencies of these countries are devalued against the dollar gradually and regularly in order to pay down debt owed to the US. They go to hell as we go to purgatory. The US dollar is the currency of Panama.

What other countries are in the same or similar situation?

who is Xiang Songzuo? from ian’s link:

But if the US must ask China to buy some portion of its national debt, what kind of conditions and principles should China we raise?　　

The principle should be the same as the basic principle upheld by the US and IMF when “saving” other countries in crisis: cut fiscal disbursement and both the government and the people should save money. Besides that, there are six points: first, the US should cancel the limits on high-tech exports to China, and allow China to acquire advanced technology and high-tech companies from the US; secondly, the US needs to open its financial system to Chinese financial institutions, allowing all Chinese financial firms to open branches and develop business in the US; third, the US should not prevent Europe from canceling the ban against selling weapons to China; fourth, the US should stop selling military weapons to Taiwan; fifth, the US should loosen its limits on numbers of Chinese tourists and allow them to travel freely to the US; and sixth, the US should never restrain China’s exports to the US and force RMB appreciation in the name of domestic protectionism and employment pressure.

If the US should refuse to agree to the six principals, that only means it doesn’t really need China to save its market and buy its national debt. Then China’s choice is quite simple: rationally adjust the structure of its foreign exchange reserve assets and avoid the risk of the US national debt according to market rules.

who is Xiang Songzuo?

A comedian? A Chinese nationalist pushing a political not economic agenda? Both?

It’s Uncle Milti’s revenge on the US…. Actually the way the IMF HELPED other countries was absolutely abominable, they had no regard for people, many starved and were pushed into shanty towns by IMF’s demands for “Reform” of the economy. I bet Milton Friedman is rolling in his grave to see just how badly his Theories have failed in the most awful ways and how all the countries that were forced to comply have all repudiated his “Theories” and have gone back to true regulated economies that are successful!

Dugg it because I could!!

this guy?

Dr. Xiang has served on our board since July 2000. He was a visiting scholar at Columbia University from May 1999 to July 2000, and at Cambridge University from October 1998 to May 1999. He previously worked at the People”s Bank of China, Shenzhen branch, as the Deputy Director of the Fund Planning Department from 1995 to 1998 and as the Director of the Non-Performing Loan Management Department from 1996 to 1998. Dr. Xiang was formerly an investment manager at Shenzhen Resources & Property Development (Group) Ltd. from 1993 to 1995. He holds a Master of International Affairs degree from Columbia University, a Ph.D in Economics and a Master in Management Science degree from Renmin University of China, and a Bachelor degree in Mechanical Engineering from HuaZhong University of Science and Technology.

IMF=Instrument of Mass Finacial Destruction.

Being a director of a company like Hurray Holding Company pays well doesn’t it? But the stock has lost a third of its value in the last year so maybe Xiang is pissed.

when will china be ready to lift wages and be a market for it’s own production?

Actually I should have said Hurray is trading at a third of its former value. You would think ringtones would be a happier business.

OT: Senator Baucus health care reform plan

I want to semi-apologize for dismissing Senator Baucus health care proposal. I saw his t.v. presentation and it seemed pretty sketchy. But, then I read his “whitepaper” and saw there was a lot of meat to it.

My impression is that it’s pretty good, but needs some work starting with fundamental principles (going to purpose). I won’t pick at that though, something else needs highlighted much more.

It’s too much.

Yep, I promote a lot of change, but his plan is too much. We want a good health care system which will stick like Social Security. We want results that are undeniable in good times and bad. We want customer satisfaction. We want to get it passed into law. His plan offers a lot of great stuff and you have to be careful Congress doesn’t choke on it. Sure, we’ll have plenty of Dems, but we want this thing to last through Republican rule as well.

I think he needs to focus on the structure, cost cutting, best medical practices, no discrimination, public & private options for better competition, affordability to customers, easy enrollment with ease of system use (internet-friendly), more general practitioner care, portability and assistance to children & poor.

This also covers expansion of SCHIP and some improvements to Medicaid and Medicare and possibly fixing or eliminating Medicare Advantage.

I’d say it’s almost more important to consider how the public might approach to use the system as the ‘research to assist industry’. He needs to pare it down to structure, flow of information & money and listing the other tree ornaments with low-end cost estimates to be considered by Congress.

Give us the basics we can be assured of passing and that will definitely work to get more people insured at lower cost.

Then, over time as it shows itself affordable and saving money, consider adding other elements which can extend and improve service and savings.

We can’t afford to go whole hog because we really don’t know what will work just yet. We need a base structure and, like a loading dock, ways to add on other features as we want.

if it’s the same person (big if), there’s a bunch of other directorships – that’s just the one i grabbed first. here’s another and another.

My guess is China will ask for Taiwan, er, I mean Formosa, as a down payment on any financial help. This really pisses me off, because of republican looting of the country we have to go hat in hand to commie China. Thanks a lot Nixon, Reagan, Bush the first and Bush the last.

“… we really don’t know what will work just yet.”

Yeah, nobody in the world has tried anything that could serve as example.

We need a uniquely exceptional purely American solution to a dilemma no other country has faced, ‘cuz we’re so far in advance of everyone else.

;~D

They should all be deported to some really poor third world country to live out the rest of their lives. Of course first all their assets will be confiscated as punishment for looting the Federal Treasury.
Now that would be true justice, just think of them trying eek out a living…

when will china be ready to lift wages and be a market for it’s own production?

China is a big country. So even though it has made phenomenal progress there are still large chunks of it that have been left out. You have an aging population and that would indicate both a slowing in development and greater social needs at the same time. Overlaid on this is the current world recession which hits an exporting nation like China hard. When exports decrease, jobs go away. Development slows and this exacerbates the ticking timebomb of China’s aging demographics. This is why China announced a nearly $600 billion stimulus package. It is for development of the country’s infrastructure which is good. It will eat through its foreign reserves but hopefully it will strengthen the country in the long run and also keep it stable.

Given the current down turn in the world economy I don’t think wages will rise in the near term. To some extent there already is some internal consumption but nothing like a mature industrialized economy. That’s the thing despite all its progress, China has a long way to go to achieve that. And to sound a pessimistic note when you factor in peak energy and global warming, it becomes highly problematic. I haven’t thought it through and I’m not sure anyone else has either.

N ope Just give everyone the same insurance that all the Congress critters and Senators have. that would solve the health care issue real quick. But to do that we need the 60 Senators to ride rough shod over the Rethuglians!! grind them into the all the dirt they created!!

OT, but you know that story going around the net about wingnuts stiffing waitstaff for being Obama supporters? Well it has happened here. A friend is the development director for the statewide foodbank network. Yesterday some jackass came in to make a $20 cash donation. Gave that bullshit spiel about teaching his waitress at dinner the night before a lesson in income redistribution. Asked for a receipt made out to the waitress. My friend took the donation rather than risk bad publicity, but was really pissed off. Went down to the restaurant later to give the waitress $20 out of his own pocket. Turns out she wasn’t on, but the jackass had been earlier with the receipt. Rightwing fuckwit.

you should write an ox diary about that fuckery dr dick

from a year ago:

The aggregate amount of money and credit in the global economy has risen sharply over the past 30 years, with its growth rate and stock far exceeding that of the real economy or real assets of the world. This is the view of Xiang Songzuo, professor at the Huazhong University of Science and Technology, whose opinion was first published in a recent article in China Business News. Xiang said this situation is a real threat to the world economy

Waving to SUZ!!! Clearing up there yet?? My son is up in Portland to go fishing with his big brother BUT it has been raining so much they haven’t been able to….

I believe its called a Christmas tree. The little that I have heard of it is that it isn’t single payer and keeps the insurance companies to skim off money and add overhead costs. Any plan that isn’t single payer is a waste of time, money, and resources. It’s like seeing your neighbors driving affordable cars and deciding if you want to invent the wheel.

It’s not you but I am getting really tired of all these Rube Goldberg contraptions posing as answers to what are at heart straightforward problems with reasonable solutions.

thanks. was reading this from roubini: The Rising Risk of a Hard Landing in China: The Two Engines of Global Growth – U.S. and China – are Now Stalling, and wondering about the risk of political unrest in china. people are more likely to do stupid things when they are under pressure.

Not sure I would know how. I know my friend was so pissed off that he could not sleep last night. He told his boss about it and she has insisted that the Foodbank Network give the money to the waitress. We have a lot of really good people here in Montana, but we have far more than our share of these self centered rightwing assholes.

Actually that’s reasonable if not original. Your other citation still makes him sound more a nationalist than an economist.

Now nahant that’s not fair. Well, it is fair.

But you are talking like a reasonable person and making sense.

We can’t have none of that!

No, we gotta wait fer Congress to decide that it’s too expensive and not fair to thr insurance companies and all the people who work for ‘em and so on and so forth and we have ta start very small and take tiny, measured steps ‘cuz this is scary.

Speakin’ of scary that little thingie you send me, “A real pilot” is incredible, almost unbelievable.

That chap can fly! And on only one wing … gonna be sending that one to some pilot friends of mine.

Much thanks.

China is facing another really huge problem.

Sex balance in humans at birth is around 51:49 favoring males. By adolescence females out number males slightly. The Chinese one-child-per-family has combined with the preference for sons over daughters to create a nasty demographic imbalance. My forgettery says it’s like 60:40 or worse.

There are going to be a bunch of Chinese sons looking for wives.

two different people?

That’s what Satyajit Das wrote over at RGE,

Taking the cure …

So what must the US do to remedy the problem? In 1989, John Williamson described certain economic prescriptions – the Washington Consensus – that became a “standard” reform package promoted for crisis-wracked countries by the IMF. The controversial, much criticised package includes: fiscal policy discipline; redirection of public spending from subsidies; tax reform; market determined and positive real interest rates; competitive exchange rates; trade liberalization; liberalization of inward foreign direct investment; privatization of state enterprises; and deregulation. Resolution of the problems facing the US requires adopting many elements of the standard IMF economic reform package for emerging markets.

that’s right. shit.

It’s why they went with their stimulus plan. Exporting firms and jobs are still going to get hit hard but the Chinese government knows the only thing it has to justify its existence is delivering some kind of economic improvement to the people. It stops doing that and it could lose the the mandate of Heaven real fast.

There already are, though this is just the leading edge of the wave. They are aggressively recruiting brides (a lot sort of mail order) from Taiwan, Korea, and Southeast Asia, as well as from overseas Chinese communities. Whatever they do it is going to have profound impacts on Chinese society.

jane upstairs

clear as a bell through the weekend nahant – may be some sprinkles but mainly sunshine

dr dick – its pretty easy – give it a twirl

Could we have one of them ‘mandates’ over here?

I mean before this place becomes kindda hellish?

That’s right. China has some very difficult demographic challenges to work through.

Might try it tomorrow or over the weekend. This time of night I sort of struggle with coherence.

The Washington Consensus was a neoliberal load then and I can’t see it as a realistic prescription for anyone including us now.

Yeah.

I have two colleagues who have adopted Chinese daughters. It’s really crazy.

7 years ago from palast:

Stiglitz helped translate one from bureaucratise, a “Country Assistance Strategy.” There’s an Assistance Strategy for every poorer nation, designed, says the World Bank, after careful in-country investigation. But according to insider Stiglitz, the Bank’s staff ‘investigation’ consists of close inspection of a nation’s 5-star hotels. It concludes with the Bank staff meeting some begging, busted finance minister who is handed a ‘restructuring agreement’ pre-drafted for his ‘voluntary’ signature (I have a selection of these).

Each nation’s economy is individually analyzed, then, says Stiglitz, the Bank hands every minister the same exact four-step program.

Step One is Privatization – which Stiglitz said could more accurately be called, ‘Briberization.’ Rather than object to the sell-offs of state industries, he said national leaders – using the World Bank’s demands to silence local critics – happily flogged their electricity and water companies. “You could see their eyes widen” at the prospect of 10% commissions paid to Swiss bank accounts for simply shaving a few billion off the sale price of national assets.

…Step Two of the IMF/World Bank one-size-fits-all rescue-your-economy plan is ‘Capital Market Liberalization.’ In theory, capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out. Unfortunately, as in Indonesia and Brazil, the money simply flowed out and out. Stiglitz calls this the “Hot Money” cycle. Cash comes in for speculation in real estate and currency, then flees at the first whiff of trouble. A nation’s reserves can drain in days, hours. And when that happens, to seduce speculators into returning a nation’s own capital funds, the IMF demands these nations raise interest rates to 30%, 50% and 80%.

“The result was predictable,” said Stiglitz of the Hot Money tidal waves in Asia and Latin America. Higher interest rates demolished property values, savaged industrial production and drained national treasuries.

At this point, the IMF drags the gasping nation to Step Three: Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas. This leads, predictably, to Step-Three-and-a-Half: what Stiglitz calls, “The IMF riot.”
The IMF riot is painfully predictable. When a nation is, “down and out, [the IMF] takes advantage and squeezes the last pound of blood out of them. They turn up the heat until, finally, the whole cauldron blows up,” as when the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor in Indonesia in 1998. Indonesia exploded into riots, but there are other examples – the Bolivian riots over water prices last year and this February, the riots in Ecuador over the rise in cooking gas prices imposed by the World Bank. You’d almost get the impression that the riot is written into the plan.

And it is. What Stiglitz did not know is that, while in the States, BBC and The Observer obtained several documents from inside the World Bank, stamped over with those pesky warnings, “confidential,” “restricted,” “not to be disclosed.” Let’s get back to one: the “Interim Country Assistance Strategy” for Ecuador, in it the Bank several times states – with cold accuracy – that they expected their plans to spark, “social unrest,” to use their bureaucratic term for a nation in flames.
That’s not surprising. The secret report notes that the plan to make the US dollar Ecuador’s currency has pushed 51% of the population below the poverty line. The World Bank “Assistance” plan simply calls for facing down civil strife and suffering with, “political resolve” – and still higher prices.

The IMF riots (and by riots I mean peaceful demonstrations dispersed by bullets, tanks and teargas) cause new panicked flights of capital and government bankruptcies. This economic arson has it’s bright side – for foreign corporations, who can then pick off remaining assets, such as the odd mining concession or port, at fire sale prices.
Stiglitz notes that the IMF and World Bank are not heartless adherents to market economics. At the same time the IMF stopped Indonesia ’subsidizing’ food purchases, “when the banks need a bail-out, intervention (in the market) is welcome.” The IMF scrounged up tens of billions of dollars to save Indonesia’s financiers and, by extension, the US and European banks from which they had borrowed.

A pattern emerges. There are lots of losers in this system but one clear winner: the Western banks and US Treasury, making the big bucks off this crazy new international capital churn. Stiglitz told me about his unhappy meeting, early in his World Bank tenure, with Ethopia’s new president in the nation’s first democratic election. The World Bank and IMF had ordered Ethiopia to divert aid money to its reserve account at the US Treasury, which pays a pitiful 4% return, while the nation borrowed US dollars at 12% to feed its population. The new president begged Stiglitz to let him use the aid money to rebuild the nation. But no, the loot went straight off to the US Treasury’s vault in Washington.

Now we arrive at Step Four of what the IMF and World Bank call their “poverty reduction strategy”: Free Trade. This is free trade by the rules of the World Trade Organization and World Bank, Stiglitz the insider likens free trade WTO-style to the Opium Wars. “That too was about opening markets,” he said. As in the 19th century, Europeans and Americans today are kicking down the barriers to sales in Asia, Latin American and Africa, while barricading our own markets against Third World agriculture.

I Checked out whether it was real on snopes and they don’t know for sure! So I am having the youngest who is a senior at Chapman Dodge College of Film and Media arts look at it closely to see if special effects were used to produce it! I will be interested in his call on it. But no matter it sure is amazing to watch! Glad you are getting the email I send you after all we went through to get the mail working back when!!

They undertook what has to be the most drastic and dramatic demographic experiment in human history and are now reaping a lot of unintended consequences.

Naw, mandates are only for Republicans. Democrats must govern carefully from the center. /s

It’s going to get a lot worse.

I wonder what dowries are running over there now?

The matter of China’s investment in US Treasury notes rather than importing goods isn’t new and their reason for doing so is partly well known; they wish to develope as rapidly as possible and so have the enforced savings rate of 50% which is extraordinary.
Is it possible that as Dr. Xiang has suggested, as have some other Chinese academics outside of government, to exercise what has been called the “nuclear” option, ie stop accumulating Treasury notes and convert the existing ones? Yes,it is possible to do that. It is called cutting off your nose to spite your face. The situation between two tradings partners is somewhat different than the IMF situations described before.
Should the dollar become devaluaed with respect to the RMB because China moves out of Treasury notes (which normally makes good exconmic sense), China’s exports will become more expensive and the US’ cheaper. In addition should the US economy contract, so will the Chinese as the export market to the US dries up.
This is all old news; China has for many years willing to risk being paid in devaluaed dollars tommorrow as the price of creating jobs today. The US has been willing to lose some jobs today and not bother to claim dumping and try to create jobs tommorrow. As yet the natural market correction, China increases wages, loses jobs and exports, and the US creates jobs and exports hasn’t taken effect. As far as China using its reserves to buy core US industries, and relocate them to China, that is politically impossible. The market correction that Dr. Xiang is suggesting is to the US’ advantage.

Hit 80 here! Real nice soft feeling to the air!! See ya upstairs!

isn’t one “solution” to that demographic problem a war or two with lots of casualties? thanks for the reminder. don’t know why i hadn’t been thinking about that problem in the mix of issues….

*gentle reminder*

fair use is generally determined to be 250 words or less with a link to the source

No dowries any more (it is a sellers market). We are talking paying bridewealth (payments to, rather than from the wife’s family). Mostly these are somewhat prosperous men (not rich by any means) recruiting poor women from outside China with the promise of a better life. Vietnam is one of the prime areas of recruitment. The prospective groom (or his family) pays all her immigration related expenses.

so sorry! link is there, but way too many words (i thought it was 600? – although i’m still way over).

China is just rubbing our nose in it. They know very well that them forcing an IMF adjustment regime on the US would be mutual suicide. China is doing a fiscal stimulus program to counter downturn and finacial panic that dwarfs ours as percentage of GDP (ten times the size of the one the Dems propose for US). So, they know what they are saying is bunk.

I don’t know where you find things, nahant, but ‘Companions’ was a huge hit with us and youngest daughter (age 8) invited friends over to join in the appreciation.

Which I extend further, to you, along with added thanks that you include me among those whom you gift with such treasures.

DW

Bah.

These were completely forseeable consequences. Chinese culture has favored sons for the past 2000+ years. Tell people they can only have one child, and in that culture they are going to decide that it’s going to be a son.

The sex imbalance was completely predictable. I don’t think you can call it unintended when it is as plain as the nose on your face.

They have to know that an IMF readjustment would destroy the US economy (having seen what they do to the rest of the world). Given how tightly their economy is linked to ours, it would take them down as well.

Yeah, old-fashioned wars have a way of reducing the number of available males. It’s not completely clear about contemporary war…

It was I admit a bit of willful ignorance, but the authorities really did not anticipate this at the time. As a point of fact, gender selective abortions are illegal in China, but that doesn’t mean they do not happen any more than it does in India, where the same thing is true. India is also looking at a potentially destablizing gender imbalance in the future owing to this. Chinese authorities at least pretended to believe that the law would be followed, though I admit that any reasonable person would have recognized it would not be.

No one could have anticipated

Increased warfare in the early 19th century (owing to the introduction of horses, guns, and trade goods) led to marked gender imbalances in many Plains Indian tribes by the 1840s. Among the Cheyenne there were twice as many women as men in the prime marriageable 20-30 age cohort. Reducing the number of men, however, does little to control long term population growth.

Trying to deflate a population in a stable fashion isn’t easy.

Another aspect of this finger pointing at the US is to keep people in other countries from pointing fingers at their own political and economic leaders. The truth is that Goldman Sach and Morgan Stanley may have come up with all these insane financial vehicles but banks and investors in other countries bought them and they could do the math as well as the folks on Wall Street could. They all knew it was a house of cards. They just hoped it would crash on somebody’s else watch. In the meantime they were as greedy as anyone over here.

who is Xiang Songzuo? from ian’s link:

But if the US must ask China to buy some portion of its national debt, what kind of conditions and principles should China we raise?　　

The principle should be the same as the basic principle upheld by the US and IMF when “saving” other countries in crisis:

The United States is NOT “other countries”. So, no, his view is too narrow.

cut fiscal disbursement and both the government and the people should save money.

If we weren’t in a financial crisis that would make sense. In the 1990s Bill Clinton did those things and we were doing well. He also aimed to improve people’s savings by helping them buy homes. The Republicans scuttled that plan and we’re now suffering the consequences and trying to rescue Clinton’s plan.

Besides that, there are six points: first, the US should cancel the limits on high-tech exports to China,and allow China to acquire advanced technology and high-tech companies from the US;

If China were a more sound Democracy where we trusted their political leadership were more firmly in control of their military and we didn’t fear they might do great damage to their neighbors, then we would consider it. I don’t foresee this happening for at least several decades.

Still, we want China to be a trading partner and civil friend to create & maintain peace and prosperity in the world.

secondly, the US needs to open its financial system to Chinese financial institutions, allowing all Chinese financial firms to open branches and develop business in the US;

This sort of expansion of economic trade should be discussed at greater length and we should indeed aim for that kind of thing. There are at present some difficulties. The yuan does not float freely and trade between the two countries isn’t as free and broad as it really needs to be.

third, the US should not prevent Europe from canceling the ban against selling weapons to China;

Why? What has that got to do with trade of non-military goods? Should we sell weapons to be used against our friends in Taiwan?

fourth, the US should stop selling military weapons to Taiwan;

Why? They’re our friends and a stable Democracy, so we help them stay safe and peaceful.

fifth, the US should loosen its limits on numbers of Chinese tourists and allow them to travel freely to the US;

I’m not familiar with the limitations, but that is certainly something which could be discussed. Our major limitation on ‘traveling freely’ is that we are an open society and yet we have military bases and other places which are always kept private from foreigners. Other than that we might be able to come to an agreement after discussion.

and sixth, the US should never restrain China’s exports to the US and force RMB appreciation in the name of domestic protectionism and employment pressure.

We have been importing quite a lot in recent years and our citizens are enjoying many goods at reasonable prices. That should continue for both our benefit. We are going to review our trade relations and there will be, at some point, more inclusion of requirements on our trade partners to ensure protection of consumers (from bad food, drugs and other goods) and to protect the environment. All such discussions (around the world) will be done with an open mind and we will listen to our trade partners. We hope to improve world trade and create broader arrangements to allow for regional trading and some protection of national security issues such as food production and heavy industry.

There might be some fear America will become more protectionist and inflict tariffs. I don’t believe that is in the cards. I think we want to continue the World Trade Revolution to open the entire world to better trade possibilities and practices. We will naturally collaborate with many countries to create any new arrangements.

If the US should refuse to agree to the six principals, that only means it doesn’t really need China to save its market and buy its national debt. Then China’s choice is quite simple: rationally adjust the structure of its foreign exchange reserve assets and avoid the risk of the US national debt according to market rules.

The presumption that if we “don’t agree”, then it means “x, y and z” is too limited and unproductive.

America knows what we need more than China knows. We also know that relations with China and other nations are very important and that we want to continue those relations and improve them further.

We know there are other options besides “6 principles” or “x, y and z”.

China’s choice is the same as it has always been, do what is good for China. It’s the same rule all great peoples have followed. The curious thing is that once you’re in a relationship with another country it isn’t entirely obvious that directly harming them is good for your country because cutting off one of your arms does the other no good. There are larger consequences which occur naturally — without malice or desire for revenge or anything of that sort.

Harming the American economy would cause us (automatically) to no longer be able to buy Chinese goods and that would harm the Chinese economy severely. Would the political leaders of China be comfortable with more unnecessarily unemployed workers?

The world economy is under stress and we’re working to fix that. Individuals who harbor political interests and place those above national interests should beware of unintended consequences. I offer that advice to Democrats, Republicans, Chinese and everyone. Or, as an old saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for.”

Nope, which was my point about unintended consequences. The authorities were facing a crisis of overpopulation and looked for drastic measures to avert the present danger. They seized on what seemed like a simple and easily administered solution and generally closed their eyes to any possible complications.

So, as we already knew, stupidity in gummint isn’t limited to George Walker Bush and the Bush Crime Family.

Nope. This is actually sort of a pattern in Chinese policy making since the revolution. Sort of like with Republicans since Nixon. Must be something to do with authoritarian mentalities.

I believe its called a Christmas tree. The little that I have heard of it is that it isn’t single payer and keeps the insurance companies to skim off money and add overhead costs. Any plan that isn’t single payer is a waste of time, money, and resources. It’s like seeing your neighbors driving affordable cars and deciding if you want to invent the wheel.

It’s not you but I am getting really tired of all these Rube Goldberg contraptions posing as answers to what are at heart straightforward problems with reasonable solutions.

Usually a “Christmas Tree” is pork. what we have in this instance is the structure of a new system and, if you’ve read his plan, quite a lot of other great things which we can do without for a while. I say start smaller so we can afford it and add on as it becomes clear we’re saving money.

Yes, you’re right, it isn’t “single-payer”. It’s more like Obama’s plan. They’ve done public surveys and found the public at large doesn’t want single-payer, so they’re going to go this other way.

I understand your frustration, but to win your argument you have to elect a LOT of people and convince a LOT of people and so far that hasn’t happened.

The new way of raising money and organizing people via the Internet might lead to that as the people have their say instead of just the Rich People. Is America right-center? Libs say that’s crazy, but we haven’t had many Liberal presidents for a while, so maybe Libs just haven’t been smart enough to win the big argument (that the public really is Left, but gets distracted by Big Money arguments). Now we have public money and already Progressives are winning. It’s a miracle!

In the meantime it’s public & private & competition.

to be clear, the prof’s suggestions don’t reflect their guvmint’s views… Nobody, least of all US consumer export-oriented China, wants the US to go through an IMF austerity program. This being said, I do believe that there is some validity in the argument that the US economy needs to go through some type of policy-catalysed manufacturing/real productivity growth led Renaissance (although China wouldn’t want us to).

More or less developed Korea went through an IMF-led program in the late nineties. boy was it painful, but one can argue that the result was a much stronger, structurally-sound economy. Moreover, the process broke the stranglehold over their economy of the venal, plutocratic families that dominated the chaebol conglomerates (which were funded by house banks at incredible leverage levels… when they lost access to this sweetheart debt, their back was broken) facilitating entrepreneurial innovation in manufacturing, R&D and advanced services.

Arguably, we need to do the same somehow: break the back of the sweetheart cabal of the CEO class and their Wall Street banking buddies.

btw, isn’t Iceland doing the whole IMF failed state thing now?

It’s also possible that the prof’s views are being floated in a plausibly deniable way.

I’m not the least bit sure that I believe that, but it’s a possibility.

Iceland is indeed in the foul clutches of the IMF. Don’t know the details of the restructuring plan, however.

They all knew it was a house of cards. They just hoped it would crash on somebody’s else watch. In the meantime they were as greedy as anyone over here.

The crazy mortgages have to go, but curiously the Credit Default Swaps might work out in the end.

If, they charged properly for a CDS and, over time, the mortgage default rate isn’t very high and the dollar value drops enough, then any ‘claim’ on a CDS ‘insurance policy’ might not have to pay out very much in inflation-adjusted dollars. It’s complicated.

However, if the dollar rises back up on strong exports and less oil imports, then they might lose money paying off CDSs.

Key is for government to do the right thing and fix the mortgages to protect homeowners and do it quick. I suppose that’s why Paulson has tried to kill the FDIC plan to workout mortgages — evil Bushie bastards.

Off to bed to dream of the socialist workers paradise (Finland!).

btw, isn’t Iceland doing the whole IMF failed state thing now?

Can a ‘terrorist’ country do that?

Weirdest damn thing for UK to label them terrorist.

possible, of course, but in recent years their academics have been allowed a fair amount of free-press access to express their views, even if those views are loony and break with politburo policy. Hot issues like Taiwan, Tibet, political oppression at home, criticism of the Olympics, etc are still taboo of course, but you can pretty much say what you want about other countries’ foreign or economic affairs. Heck, you can even write about poisoned food, corruption at home and AIDS on a good day. I wouldn’t read too much into this particular sinothug’s nationalistic ramblings.

sorry. .. my #83 was in response to #78. darn iphone doesn’t deal well with the FDL reply feature sometimes

For anyone who needs a good primer on postwar economics and how we got where we are there are 2 really good books.

One is the late Andrew Glynn’s Capitalism After 1945 and the other is Mike Hudson’s Super-Imperialism.

Beyond that there are the wonderful books by Bowles/Weisskoff/Gordon After the Wasteland and Beyond the Wasteland. Ahhh…the joys of going over the social structures of accumulation with the sight of 800+ point intraday swings on the Dow.

Too bad they replaced all the windows downtown with ones that don’t open.

Congratulations! You have discovered the Chinese Alan Greenspan! Caw!

How depressing and morbidly funny to hear that wingnuts plan to John Galt waitstaff for supporting Obama.

First, saying you plan to John Galt somebody sounds like you plan to force them to read bad books.

Second, if they plan to give their tips to homeless families outside the restaurant they may be disappointed if Democrats stay in power because the homeless will vanish.

Finally, if they do refuse to tip liberals just for spite, I hope waitstaff spit has lots of nutritional value because they’re gonna be chugging gallons of it with their lattes.