Comments on: Emboldened, Marriage Equality Haters Target Massachusetts http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:17:52 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Millineryman http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719349 Millineryman Sun, 09 Nov 2008 23:10:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719349 <p>Redefine marriage as the union of two consenting adults. The notion of one man and one woman is a religious one. Since certain religious doctrine discriminate against those who don’t tow their line, their definition should not be used as the bases of rights in a society where all are equal.</p> Redefine marriage as the union of two consenting adults. The notion of one man and one woman is a religious one. Since certain religious doctrine discriminate against those who don’t tow their line, their definition should not be used as the bases of rights in a society where all are equal.

]]> By: Synoia http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719334 Synoia Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:36:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719334 <p>No, just make mariage illegal for all - that would be equality.</p> <p>We need another CA prop (prop 69 :-0)</p> <p>Marriage is legal for all. If not legal for all, illegal for all. - yes, or no.</p> No, just make mariage illegal for all – that would be equality.

We need another CA prop (prop 69 :-0)

Marriage is legal for all. If not legal for all, illegal for all. – yes, or no.

]]> By: Boston1775 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719332 Boston1775 Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:36:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719332 <p>Well, the tricky thing here is the convergence of Mitt’s Mormons, evangelical churches the size of Home Depot (paid for by US taxpayers) and a strong Catholic presence.</p> <p>It will be a fight and the politics will be brutal.</p> <p>Whoever, upthread, wrote about the UCC, I offer hope with a caveat. In a large, powerful church in which my father has been involved, gay activists in the ministry pushed the gay rights agenda forcefully and relentlessly for a few years. The church was turned upside down and half the congregation left. </p> <p>As an example, the rainbow flag was moved into the church and the American flag was moved out. Gay rights were discussed every week. People who had voted for their congregation to become open and affirming felt alienated by the new leadership - people who had spent a lifetime and their family’s lifetime before them in that very church - were no longer feeling that they mattered. And as I said, half left.</p> <p>I am honored by my father’s steady presence in the face of change. He’d retired from another UCC Massachusetts church and came back to his hometown. He stayed. His calm, steady presence and guest preaching began to work in tandem with the activists who began to look at what happened. They are all working together, but the feelings of those who felt pushed out remain.</p> <p>The politics of this are important. </p> <p>I hope we have had enough time before another assault.</p> Well, the tricky thing here is the convergence of Mitt’s Mormons, evangelical churches the size of Home Depot (paid for by US taxpayers) and a strong Catholic presence.

It will be a fight and the politics will be brutal.

Whoever, upthread, wrote about the UCC, I offer hope with a caveat. In a large, powerful church in which my father has been involved, gay activists in the ministry pushed the gay rights agenda forcefully and relentlessly for a few years. The church was turned upside down and half the congregation left.

As an example, the rainbow flag was moved into the church and the American flag was moved out. Gay rights were discussed every week. People who had voted for their congregation to become open and affirming felt alienated by the new leadership – people who had spent a lifetime and their family’s lifetime before them in that very church – were no longer feeling that they mattered. And as I said, half left.

I am honored by my father’s steady presence in the face of change. He’d retired from another UCC Massachusetts church and came back to his hometown. He stayed. His calm, steady presence and guest preaching began to work in tandem with the activists who began to look at what happened. They are all working together, but the feelings of those who felt pushed out remain.

The politics of this are important.

I hope we have had enough time before another assault.

]]> By: Synoia http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719331 Synoia Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:32:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719331 <p>I drove past the Saddleback Church in Orange County, CA today, and there was an orderly crowd of demonstrators shouting:</p> <p>“What do we want” Equal Rights!</p> <p>I don’t perceive Prop 8 as a success for those opposed to Marriage for all. I see it as a flash point. A trigger for another round of “separate is not equal”. And the churches have much to lose - their tax exempt status.</p> <p>And yes, I, a heterosexual married male, voted NO on prop 8. I don’t believe what happens between two consenting adults in private any of my business, any of the government’s business, nor any other person’s business.</p> I drove past the Saddleback Church in Orange County, CA today, and there was an orderly crowd of demonstrators shouting:

“What do we want” Equal Rights!

I don’t perceive Prop 8 as a success for those opposed to Marriage for all. I see it as a flash point. A trigger for another round of “separate is not equal”. And the churches have much to lose – their tax exempt status.

And yes, I, a heterosexual married male, voted NO on prop 8. I don’t believe what happens between two consenting adults in private any of my business, any of the government’s business, nor any other person’s business.

]]> By: DrDick http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719320 DrDick Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:05:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719320 <p>You were sane, rational, and compassionate - three things they absolutely cannot tolerate in any form.</p> You were sane, rational, and compassionate – three things they absolutely cannot tolerate in any form.

]]> By: Boston1775 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719313 Boston1775 Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:53:36 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719313 <p>Geez, I just got home from a trip to the farm.<br /> Again?<br /> What the hell did Massachusetts do to deserve another round of Fundamormontalism?</p> Geez, I just got home from a trip to the farm.
Again?
What the hell did Massachusetts do to deserve another round of Fundamormontalism?

]]> By: Apphouse50 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719300 Apphouse50 Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:34:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719300 <p>Hmmmm. Will the Mittster lead the charge? Or will he hang back so he can later deny involvement if all this blows up in The Angel Moroni’s face?</p> <p>Can’t wait.</p> Hmmmm. Will the Mittster lead the charge? Or will he hang back so he can later deny involvement if all this blows up in The Angel Moroni’s face?

Can’t wait.

]]> By: DrDick http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719298 DrDick Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:29:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719298 <p>While Mass is probably safe, truth and facts will not daunt nor sway these asshats in their zeal to impose their fantasy of Zion on the rest of us (I include both the Fundies and the Catholics, in addition to the LDS here).</p> While Mass is probably safe, truth and facts will not daunt nor sway these asshats in their zeal to impose their fantasy of Zion on the rest of us (I include both the Fundies and the Catholics, in addition to the LDS here).

]]> By: truth http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719295 truth Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:24:08 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719295 <p>Good luck with flipping the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. This election made our legislature even more liberal and Democratic. Marriage and civil rights won’t go on the ballot here. </p> <p>Even if same sex marriage made it on the ballot I think the voters would approve it. We’ve had five years of experience with equal marriage rights and the sky did not fall, locusts did not plague, and we continue to have the lowest divorce rate in the nation, so hetero marriages didn’t suffer either. </p> <p>Same sex marriage is here to stay.</p> Good luck with flipping the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. This election made our legislature even more liberal and Democratic. Marriage and civil rights won’t go on the ballot here.

Even if same sex marriage made it on the ballot I think the voters would approve it. We’ve had five years of experience with equal marriage rights and the sky did not fall, locusts did not plague, and we continue to have the lowest divorce rate in the nation, so hetero marriages didn’t suffer either.

Same sex marriage is here to stay.

]]> By: DrDick http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719286 DrDick Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:09:53 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/09/emboldened-haters-look-to-massachusetts/#comment-1719286 <p>There is already a good argument that it is unconstitutional, though no challenge has gone through the courts yet to my knowledge.</p> There is already a good argument that it is unconstitutional, though no challenge has gone through the courts yet to my knowledge.

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