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	<title>Comments on: Coleman Files to Stop Statewide Canvass in Minnesota Senate Race: Denied!</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/</link>
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		<title>By: TomR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718962</link>
		<dc:creator>TomR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 14:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718962</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Franken also had positive ads, so we should keep this in perspective:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FSg0DvwsU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FSg0DvwsU&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYrT9TDy9A&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYrT9TDy9A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hfoLvFY5A&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hfoLvFY5A&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDjMbdgD9c&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDjMbdgD9c&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think many of Al’s ads were hard on Norm Coleman, not just for the sake of being negative, but as a way to provide accountability moments for Coleman’s behavior as a Senator over the past 6 years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you read The Political Mind by George Lakoff, you’ll understand that Norm Coleman’s character assassination ads against Franken did seep into the minds of Minnesotans through sheer repetition, so those frames and narratives got placed into their heads whether or not they agreed with them.  Once a frame is put into your mind, it cannot be erased.  Liberal or conservative, we all have the War on Terror frame in our heads and there’s no way to get rid of it.  The best you can do is create an alternative frame for consideration.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, the battlefield of this election has taken place inside the brains of Minnesotans and each has had to process contradictory framing (some based on truth, others based on distorted thinking and deception) and come to a conclusion about how to vote.  Most of this processing occurs on an unconscious level.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;- Tom&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Franken also had positive ads, so we should keep this in perspective:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FSg0DvwsU" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FSg0DvwsU</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYrT9TDy9A" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYrT9TDy9A</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hfoLvFY5A" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hfoLvFY5A</a><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDjMbdgD9c" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IDjMbdgD9c</a></p>
<p>I think many of Al’s ads were hard on Norm Coleman, not just for the sake of being negative, but as a way to provide accountability moments for Coleman’s behavior as a Senator over the past 6 years.</p>
<p>If you read The Political Mind by George Lakoff, you’ll understand that Norm Coleman’s character assassination ads against Franken did seep into the minds of Minnesotans through sheer repetition, so those frames and narratives got placed into their heads whether or not they agreed with them.  Once a frame is put into your mind, it cannot be erased.  Liberal or conservative, we all have the War on Terror frame in our heads and there’s no way to get rid of it.  The best you can do is create an alternative frame for consideration.</p>
<p>So, the battlefield of this election has taken place inside the brains of Minnesotans and each has had to process contradictory framing (some based on truth, others based on distorted thinking and deception) and come to a conclusion about how to vote.  Most of this processing occurs on an unconscious level.</p>
<p>- Tom</p>
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		<title>By: Tina</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718843</link>
		<dc:creator>Tina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718843</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You are right JohnEmerson, Frankens ads were not so much negative, but to me were just plain irritating. Judging by the close vote enough Minnesotans saw thru the slime and smears to at least keep it competitive. A friend of mines republican mom interviewed Franken and came away from it heavily impressed with his ‘down to earthness’  and his grasp of what concerns Minnesotans. He also walked away from her vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right JohnEmerson, Frankens ads were not so much negative, but to me were just plain irritating. Judging by the close vote enough Minnesotans saw thru the slime and smears to at least keep it competitive. A friend of mines republican mom interviewed Franken and came away from it heavily impressed with his ‘down to earthness’  and his grasp of what concerns Minnesotans. He also walked away from her vote.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718605</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718605</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey guys, all this business of going into court for injunctions is just fuzz.  The margin between the two, Franken and Coleman is sufficently narrow that there will be a recount, it is mandated in Minnesota State Statutes.  Moreover, no court has jurisdiction over the recount process until it is complete.  And it will not be Florida.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Given the size of the vote, 2.9 million ballots, the margin would need to be at least 16,000 for there to not be a recount.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now what will happen.  Monday all the Counties have to report their final preliminary Canvas to the Secretary of State.  Then the State Canvas Board meets to review results.  State Canvas Board is two Supreme Court Justices of opposite party, two district court judges of opposite party, and the DFL elected Secretary of State.  They will observe that the Senate Race is so narrow the Mandatory Recount is triggered, and the Recount will be ordered.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A Recount is just that — you leave aside the existing count, and start all over again.  The State all votes on paper ballots, fill in the oval, so each county will establish a counting hall, trained poll workers of opposite party will be formed into teams, recount the entire county on the Senate Race.  There are 87 Counties, so there will be 87 counting halls.  Each Precinct is counted independently.  State Law provides an exhaustive statute regarding how to interpret “intent of the voter” and each ballot will be examined by the team of counters individually, classified, and then hand counted.  No Machines.  For ballots that are disputed, the county canvas board will rule on these, and if there is an appeal, it goes to the State Canvas Board.  (Four Judges and the Sec of State).  They are required to rule inside the state statutes that set the criteria.  No court has any jurisdiction over any part of the process until it is complete, and yes, then if someone wants to contest it, they do it on their own dime.  Right now, the recount is simply part of the state election system with the recount necessary because of the narrow margin between the candidates. (It is a little more than 200 votes now, but the trigger for a recount is about 16,000.)   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It will probably take about a month to complete the recount, though we will get daily read-out’s of the precincts recounted.  There are over 4200 precincts in the state. State Law dictates how observers can watch the process, they are not permitted to talk in the counting hall, all objections must be in writing — it will not look at all like Florida.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The estimate is there might be around 6000 undervotes in the Senate Election, with this estimate based on previous recounts.  About 2 per thousand ballots don’t get picked up by the scanners, because voters make light marks, check instead of fill in the oval, or sometimes circle candidate’s names.  If these fall within the State Law criteria of “intent of the voter” they get counted.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Minnesota has one of the most comprehensive recount laws in the nation — and this is a result of a problem election in 1962-63, the contest for Governor between Elmer Anderson, the republican incumbant, and the DFL Challenger, Karl Rolvaag.  They were about 90 votes apart on election night, with Anderson ahead — and our recount law was piecemeal, a bit contradictory and all, so everyone went to court and shouted for about a month — the 8th Federal District Appeals Court ruled it belonged in State Court, it was appealed to the Supreme Court, they didn’t take it, so it went back to State Court, and they ordered the full recount.  Toward the end of December the counting began.  The Governor’s term ended Jan 1, but they left Anderson in the Governor’s suite, and made another office for Rolvaag in the Capitol Basement, and the counting went on — and on and on.  Finally in mid March Rolvaag was ahead by about 120 votes, and there were 17 ballots outstanding where they could not interpret the intent of the voter, so Anderson gave up, moved out, and Rolvaag moved upstairs.  After that the Legislature determined to re-write the recount law, and after much consultation, they did in 1965, and then it was revised in the late 80’s when we thoroughly modernized our whole election system, and adopted the paper ballot with in precinct scanners for the whole state.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We have lots of close elections, so we have considerable experience with recounts mandated by State law when the margin is narrow.  In fact we have three legislative races with less than 100 votes seperating the candidates that also have to be recounted after the Canvas.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So yes, watch what happens, but wait till you see how it works before you draw conclusions.  Remember that old Lawyer’s addage — when you have facts, pound facts.  When you have law, pound law.  When you have neither, pound the table.  Normie is pounding the table.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, all this business of going into court for injunctions is just fuzz.  The margin between the two, Franken and Coleman is sufficently narrow that there will be a recount, it is mandated in Minnesota State Statutes.  Moreover, no court has jurisdiction over the recount process until it is complete.  And it will not be Florida.</p>
<p>Given the size of the vote, 2.9 million ballots, the margin would need to be at least 16,000 for there to not be a recount.  </p>
<p>Now what will happen.  Monday all the Counties have to report their final preliminary Canvas to the Secretary of State.  Then the State Canvas Board meets to review results.  State Canvas Board is two Supreme Court Justices of opposite party, two district court judges of opposite party, and the DFL elected Secretary of State.  They will observe that the Senate Race is so narrow the Mandatory Recount is triggered, and the Recount will be ordered.  </p>
<p>A Recount is just that — you leave aside the existing count, and start all over again.  The State all votes on paper ballots, fill in the oval, so each county will establish a counting hall, trained poll workers of opposite party will be formed into teams, recount the entire county on the Senate Race.  There are 87 Counties, so there will be 87 counting halls.  Each Precinct is counted independently.  State Law provides an exhaustive statute regarding how to interpret “intent of the voter” and each ballot will be examined by the team of counters individually, classified, and then hand counted.  No Machines.  For ballots that are disputed, the county canvas board will rule on these, and if there is an appeal, it goes to the State Canvas Board.  (Four Judges and the Sec of State).  They are required to rule inside the state statutes that set the criteria.  No court has any jurisdiction over any part of the process until it is complete, and yes, then if someone wants to contest it, they do it on their own dime.  Right now, the recount is simply part of the state election system with the recount necessary because of the narrow margin between the candidates. (It is a little more than 200 votes now, but the trigger for a recount is about 16,000.)   </p>
<p>It will probably take about a month to complete the recount, though we will get daily read-out’s of the precincts recounted.  There are over 4200 precincts in the state. State Law dictates how observers can watch the process, they are not permitted to talk in the counting hall, all objections must be in writing — it will not look at all like Florida.  </p>
<p>The estimate is there might be around 6000 undervotes in the Senate Election, with this estimate based on previous recounts.  About 2 per thousand ballots don’t get picked up by the scanners, because voters make light marks, check instead of fill in the oval, or sometimes circle candidate’s names.  If these fall within the State Law criteria of “intent of the voter” they get counted.  </p>
<p>Minnesota has one of the most comprehensive recount laws in the nation — and this is a result of a problem election in 1962-63, the contest for Governor between Elmer Anderson, the republican incumbant, and the DFL Challenger, Karl Rolvaag.  They were about 90 votes apart on election night, with Anderson ahead — and our recount law was piecemeal, a bit contradictory and all, so everyone went to court and shouted for about a month — the 8th Federal District Appeals Court ruled it belonged in State Court, it was appealed to the Supreme Court, they didn’t take it, so it went back to State Court, and they ordered the full recount.  Toward the end of December the counting began.  The Governor’s term ended Jan 1, but they left Anderson in the Governor’s suite, and made another office for Rolvaag in the Capitol Basement, and the counting went on — and on and on.  Finally in mid March Rolvaag was ahead by about 120 votes, and there were 17 ballots outstanding where they could not interpret the intent of the voter, so Anderson gave up, moved out, and Rolvaag moved upstairs.  After that the Legislature determined to re-write the recount law, and after much consultation, they did in 1965, and then it was revised in the late 80’s when we thoroughly modernized our whole election system, and adopted the paper ballot with in precinct scanners for the whole state.  </p>
<p>We have lots of close elections, so we have considerable experience with recounts mandated by State law when the margin is narrow.  In fact we have three legislative races with less than 100 votes seperating the candidates that also have to be recounted after the Canvas.  </p>
<p>So yes, watch what happens, but wait till you see how it works before you draw conclusions.  Remember that old Lawyer’s addage — when you have facts, pound facts.  When you have law, pound law.  When you have neither, pound the table.  Normie is pounding the table.</p>
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		<title>By: Oval12345678akaJamesKSayre</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718428</link>
		<dc:creator>Oval12345678akaJamesKSayre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718428</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Coleman stole the 2002 Senate election electronically after the murder of the incumbent progressive Democrat. Now Coleman is taking a page out of the bush traitor’s playbook: stop counting the votes, because counting the votes may interfere with my rights to be dictator.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coleman stole the 2002 Senate election electronically after the murder of the incumbent progressive Democrat. Now Coleman is taking a page out of the bush traitor’s playbook: stop counting the votes, because counting the votes may interfere with my rights to be dictator.</p>
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		<title>By: klynn</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718343</link>
		<dc:creator>klynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718343</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Mr Klynn said, “Mr Coleman, if you are afraid of a recount as required by law, you are afraid to lose.  If you are afraid to lose, you are unfit to lead.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Klynn said, “Mr Coleman, if you are afraid of a recount as required by law, you are afraid to lose.  If you are afraid to lose, you are unfit to lead.”</p>
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		<title>By: JohnEmerson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718278</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnEmerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:44:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718278</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“I expect the recount to be the nastiest event in American political history” should just be “in Minnesota political history”. I’m not crazy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“I expect the recount to be the nastiest event in American political history” should just be “in Minnesota political history”. I’m not crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnEmerson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718276</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnEmerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718276</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As far as I could tell, Franken’s negativity was legit criticism on Senate votes and policy positions, whereas Coleman’s negativity was almost all  smears and character assassination. (”Al Franken: Unfit to Serve” was Coleman’s main campaign slogan). But Minnesota voters, while smart and attentive, are not cynical enough to recognize a slime artists when they see one. A lot of nice people ended up beilieving that both sides are equally bad. That’s the standard Republican strategy when they have nothing positive to run on. “They’re just as bad as we are” is the most they dare to claim, even though it’s not usually true.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I could tell, Franken’s negativity was legit criticism on Senate votes and policy positions, whereas Coleman’s negativity was almost all  smears and character assassination. (”Al Franken: Unfit to Serve” was Coleman’s main campaign slogan). But Minnesota voters, while smart and attentive, are not cynical enough to recognize a slime artists when they see one. A lot of nice people ended up beilieving that both sides are equally bad. That’s the standard Republican strategy when they have nothing positive to run on. “They’re just as bad as we are” is the most they dare to claim, even though it’s not usually true.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnEmerson</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718268</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnEmerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718268</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This site is following the case closely:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mncampaignreport.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.mncampaignreport.com&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Presumably Powerline will be leading the assault for the Republicans:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.powerlineblog.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.powerlineblog.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I expect the recount to be the nastiest event in American political history — Florida 2000 x2, as MNCampaignreport says. I hope to God that the Franken people have a supercharged response ready, because the other side will go all out. They’ve already alleged fraud in one precinct where there was a tabulation error. The Coleman people will go public with every suspicion and every rumor.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Powerline has already published emails from ANONYMOUS election judges alleging fraud. If they are really election judges, there are formal channels to report problems; if they haven’t done so and don’t do so they’re fakers. They’re also free to go public with details about what the problems were and which precinct they were in. But as long as they remain anonymous they should be regarded as fakers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Minnesota has a long, well-earned reputation as a clean-election state, but Coleman will move heaven and earth in order to change that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This site is following the case closely:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mncampaignreport.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mncampaignreport.com</a> </p>
<p>Presumably Powerline will be leading the assault for the Republicans:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.powerlineblog.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.powerlineblog.com/</a></p>
<p>I expect the recount to be the nastiest event in American political history — Florida 2000 x2, as MNCampaignreport says. I hope to God that the Franken people have a supercharged response ready, because the other side will go all out. They’ve already alleged fraud in one precinct where there was a tabulation error. The Coleman people will go public with every suspicion and every rumor.</p>
<p>Powerline has already published emails from ANONYMOUS election judges alleging fraud. If they are really election judges, there are formal channels to report problems; if they haven’t done so and don’t do so they’re fakers. They’re also free to go public with details about what the problems were and which precinct they were in. But as long as they remain anonymous they should be regarded as fakers.</p>
<p>Minnesota has a long, well-earned reputation as a clean-election state, but Coleman will move heaven and earth in order to change that.</p>
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		<title>By: MiniTru</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718229</link>
		<dc:creator>MiniTru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718229</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What Norm doesn’t seem to realize is that more than 1/2 of the Minnesotans who voted think he sucks! Between the votes for Franken and the Independents, Norm is the loser. Which is nothing new to many of us. Someone should tell Norm.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Norm doesn’t seem to realize is that more than 1/2 of the Minnesotans who voted think he sucks! Between the votes for Franken and the Independents, Norm is the loser. Which is nothing new to many of us. Someone should tell Norm.</p>
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		<title>By: foothillsmike</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718190</link>
		<dc:creator>foothillsmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 23:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/08/coleman-files-to-stop-statewide-canvass-in-minnesota-senate-race/#comment-1718190</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;SWEET&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110801856.html?nav=rss_email/components&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....components&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SWEET<br /><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110801856.html?nav=rss_email/components" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/&#8230;..components</a></p>
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