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	<title>Comments on: Establish Justice:  Jumping On The Marty Lederman At OLC Bandwagon</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1717067</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1717067</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t know anything about Marty Lederman, and can’t watch hours-long videos right now, but if he’s honest, knows the law, and has enough courage to go after the people who’ve been screwing up DoJ the last few years, he’s my guy, too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need someone like that, badly.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t know anything about Marty Lederman, and can’t watch hours-long videos right now, but if he’s honest, knows the law, and has enough courage to go after the people who’ve been screwing up DoJ the last few years, he’s my guy, too.</p>
<p>We need someone like that, badly.</p>
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		<title>By: lexalexander</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716689</link>
		<dc:creator>lexalexander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 18:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716689</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Can someone not sue to stop this, or is it too late?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can someone not sue to stop this, or is it too late?</p>
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		<title>By: stryder</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716673</link>
		<dc:creator>stryder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716673</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How to circumvent the constitution&lt;br /&gt;
It really needs to said how important your “take” on this is.In my opinion the olc was the primary tool for this coup.They khew they had a limited time frame to work in and the olc was a very important barrier.I know that you’re well aware of all their tactics so I won’t waste your time but the lessons learned here are going to be used again.If nothing else is accomplished the olc has to be neutered&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to circumvent the constitution<br />
It really needs to said how important your “take” on this is.In my opinion the olc was the primary tool for this coup.They khew they had a limited time frame to work in and the olc was a very important barrier.I know that you’re well aware of all their tactics so I won’t waste your time but the lessons learned here are going to be used again.If nothing else is accomplished the olc has to be neutered</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Hardin Smith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716633</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Hardin Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716633</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You know I am right there with you on the redheaded temper thing.  *G*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know I am right there with you on the redheaded temper thing.  *G*</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716632</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716632</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I came late.  I don’t have anyone that I could give an unreserved recommendation to head the OLC.  I have problems with Lederman similar to those cited by Mary at #33.  As for Mora, I was exasperated that it took him so long to realize that he had been had and then never really led or spoke out in any sustained fashion against what occurred.  Fein I have real problems with.  IIRC he backed immunity for the telecoms and I think that is indicative of how he views individual rights.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So shorter version:  I could live with either Lederman or Mora and probably would support them far more than the Cass Sunstein clone Obama is likely to pick.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came late.  I don’t have anyone that I could give an unreserved recommendation to head the OLC.  I have problems with Lederman similar to those cited by Mary at #33.  As for Mora, I was exasperated that it took him so long to realize that he had been had and then never really led or spoke out in any sustained fashion against what occurred.  Fein I have real problems with.  IIRC he backed immunity for the telecoms and I think that is indicative of how he views individual rights.</p>
<p>So shorter version:  I could live with either Lederman or Mora and probably would support them far more than the Cass Sunstein clone Obama is likely to pick.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716556</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716556</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;{to clarify 110, Fein would make me happier (in the sense of less bummed) than Lederman but on any scale, someone like Mora with that kind of fiber would be what it would take to really land in any of the happy zones&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>{to clarify 110, Fein would make me happier (in the sense of less bummed) than Lederman but on any scale, someone like Mora with that kind of fiber would be what it would take to really land in any of the happy zones</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716550</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716550</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;73  - that sounds interesting Selise.  I’m going to have to come back tonight and read that.  Thanks for the link&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>73  &#8211; that sounds interesting Selise.  I’m going to have to come back tonight and read that.  Thanks for the link</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716545</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716545</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;68 - had to leave to take care of my dependents and now I’m having to go do real work, but that’s a question that would take a lot of real digging to answer with assurance.  And in the end, I’m not sure that that the answers would matter, bc with his picks so far, starting way back with the flip in 2004 to say that he was in line with Bush’s Iraq strategy, then his backing of Lieberman in CT, and crystalizing in his approach on FISA and continuing through the touts on his COS and likely Treasury picks, it’s pretty clear that opinions like mine aren’t really part and parcel with the Obama approach.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But if I have to go off the cuff and without digging, I’d say even Bruce Fein (who I disagree with on much) would make me happier at OLC, but someone like Alberto Mora, who exhorted (or maybe excoriated would be a better choice?) Yoo and Haynes to at least do a decent enough job to “protect your client” (a man who understands consequences) and who has dealt, in a hands on fashion, with the difficulties faced by the military during these times and who could still stand fight, then fight again, then again, and after losing battle after battle, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/02/27/060227fa_fact?currentPage=9&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;STILL do this&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;In exasperation, according to another participant, Mora said that whether the Pentagon enshrined it as official policy or not, the Geneva conventions were already written into both U.S. and international law. Any grave breach of them, at home or abroad, was classified as a war crime. To emphasize his position, he took out a copy of the text of U.S. Code 18.2441, the War Crimes Act, which forbids the violation of Common Article Three, and read from it. The point, Mora told me, was that “it’s a statute. It exists—we’re not free to disregard it. We’re bound by it. It’s been adopted by the Congress. And we’re not the only interpreters of it. Other nations could have U.S. officials arrested.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The fact is that the best pick, though, is not likely to come from a survey of names in the news.  It needs a really sound approach and no matter how sound, Congress should also institute a statutory frameword to establish standards and accountabliligy at OLC instead of just allowing the internal regs to create a chaosland&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A “good pick” is only a tiny piece of the puzzle.  Congress has to do its job and set the rules and make sure they can be implemented and that violations have consequences.  Since neither thing is likely to happen, a good pick or a Congressional approach that would limit the ability to do things like set up torture gulags (after all, Schumer was a big torture advocate - so where does having Dems in control get us on that front?) and since my opinion and a quarter won’t even rate as a tip for a cuppa Starbucks, I guess it doesn’t matter.  But I have a hard time biting my tongue - and since my family is from WV originally, and I’m related to both the Hatfields and the McCoys, and red hair abounds in my family to boot, I’m just going to have to ask for your understanding on that. ;)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>68 &#8211; had to leave to take care of my dependents and now I’m having to go do real work, but that’s a question that would take a lot of real digging to answer with assurance.  And in the end, I’m not sure that that the answers would matter, bc with his picks so far, starting way back with the flip in 2004 to say that he was in line with Bush’s Iraq strategy, then his backing of Lieberman in CT, and crystalizing in his approach on FISA and continuing through the touts on his COS and likely Treasury picks, it’s pretty clear that opinions like mine aren’t really part and parcel with the Obama approach.</p>
<p>But if I have to go off the cuff and without digging, I’d say even Bruce Fein (who I disagree with on much) would make me happier at OLC, but someone like Alberto Mora, who exhorted (or maybe excoriated would be a better choice?) Yoo and Haynes to at least do a decent enough job to “protect your client” (a man who understands consequences) and who has dealt, in a hands on fashion, with the difficulties faced by the military during these times and who could still stand fight, then fight again, then again, and after losing battle after battle, <a href="http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/02/27/060227fa_fact?currentPage=9" rel="nofollow">STILL do this</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In exasperation, according to another participant, Mora said that whether the Pentagon enshrined it as official policy or not, the Geneva conventions were already written into both U.S. and international law. Any grave breach of them, at home or abroad, was classified as a war crime. To emphasize his position, he took out a copy of the text of U.S. Code 18.2441, the War Crimes Act, which forbids the violation of Common Article Three, and read from it. The point, Mora told me, was that “it’s a statute. It exists—we’re not free to disregard it. We’re bound by it. It’s been adopted by the Congress. And we’re not the only interpreters of it. Other nations could have U.S. officials arrested.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The fact is that the best pick, though, is not likely to come from a survey of names in the news.  It needs a really sound approach and no matter how sound, Congress should also institute a statutory frameword to establish standards and accountabliligy at OLC instead of just allowing the internal regs to create a chaosland</p>
<p>A “good pick” is only a tiny piece of the puzzle.  Congress has to do its job and set the rules and make sure they can be implemented and that violations have consequences.  Since neither thing is likely to happen, a good pick or a Congressional approach that would limit the ability to do things like set up torture gulags (after all, Schumer was a big torture advocate &#8211; so where does having Dems in control get us on that front?) and since my opinion and a quarter won’t even rate as a tip for a cuppa Starbucks, I guess it doesn’t matter.  But I have a hard time biting my tongue &#8211; and since my family is from WV originally, and I’m related to both the Hatfields and the McCoys, and red hair abounds in my family to boot, I’m just going to have to ask for your understanding on that. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: foothillsmike</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716532</link>
		<dc:creator>foothillsmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716532</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Since being in office Mukasey has flown home every weekend at a taxpayer expense of over 150K. Do you think he will make the 2008 edition?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since being in office Mukasey has flown home every weekend at a taxpayer expense of over 150K. Do you think he will make the 2008 edition?</p>
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		<title>By: Crosstimbers</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716522</link>
		<dc:creator>Crosstimbers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/establish-justice-jumping-on-the-marty-lederman-at-olc-bandwagon/#comment-1716522</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting. He must have been talking about the quasi-war with revolutionary France. It sounds quite a bit like Paul Krugman’s short editorial about the end of monsters. I assume parts of the “witches” concotions were the Alien and Sediation Acts.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. He must have been talking about the quasi-war with revolutionary France. It sounds quite a bit like Paul Krugman’s short editorial about the end of monsters. I assume parts of the “witches” concotions were the Alien and Sediation Acts.</p>
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