Marty Lederman would be great.

Good Morning Christy….. going to make coffee…. want a cup?

oh hell yeah!

Mornin’ Jane and Christy !

He would be great — and, even better, he takes transparency and integrity seriously in terms of job performance. And he could give a crap about sucking up to enhance his reputation. Gotta love that as a possibility for OLC…

It’s just so refreshing thinking about the adults being back in charge soon. Lederman would indeed be a great choice.

Would love one! Any news on the test results yet? (If you’ve updated and I missed it, my apologies…)

I concur wholeheartedly. Lederman has been one of the sanest voices on the Constitution all through the last several years (ever since I started reading blogs, really) and one of the most precise and incisive thinkers going. Balkinization is one of my favorite spots – because he and his crew make sense. Unlike the crew of sophists Bush had installed.

Digg is open. Let’s get as much attention as we can on this very important suggestion.

Ding, ding, ding,….we have a winner!! Morning, Christy – it’s in the 50s(woohoo) here in Upstate NY. Question: Is someone’s burning a cross on someone’s lawn a ‘hate crime’ per se? An inter-racial couple came home yesterday to find the remains of one on their lawn just over the border in Northern rural PA.
http://pressconnects.com/artic…..GECAROUSEL

Seems like a good place to link what Josh calls Obama’s truly radical view of the federal government, at least relative to the last 8 years.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..243435.php

Dugg, thanks for the link.

Thanks Christy.

Heh – eCAHN – I sent that story to everyone on my email address book!! Hoorah for President Obama!!

The fact that he’s honest about his analysis, looking at the whole of the issue and all the sides, and then intellectually going through them pro and con to decipher both legal precedent and constitutional guidance on the subject makes me really happy. He’s rigorous about it — we desperately need that right now.

Christy got a new picture! Looks great.

Imagine putting the constitution at the top of the organizational chart!

That story you linked is truly disgusting. I hope they catch who did it. Seems like pillorying might be an appropriate punishment for such a crime.

Yeah, the pixillated one had to go. *g*

Christy,

Do you concur with bmaz on Janet Napolitano for Attorney General or do you favor someone else?

Where do you see Pat Fitz fitting in at DOJ? The Chicago connection and all…

One of the things that truly concerns me is that the Bush administration was able to illegally stack the DOJ with career lawyers who have an agenda of their own.

When this revelation came out, I was truly surprised that the Democrats didn’t push for a review of these hires.

If the Democrats don’t do something about this, how can they expect to get non-partisan prosecutions?

Yoo is an easy target.I don’t know much about ledermen other than the torture position. Might get some opposition bc he is an academic pinhead. Is he a tough guy? Got to be.

A return to the rule of law? Now that’s change we can believe in!

I agree, they are going to have to purge or at least review any leftovers to avoid finding Goodling-type moles who would not get with the new program.

I think she’d be a great choice. There are several others who could fit the bill as well. My fear is that Eric Holder will try and wangle the job based on a friendship with Obama outside legal practice, but I think Holder is exactly the wrong person for the job at the moment. He’s too concerned with political feel and potential impact on his own further career aspirations and reputation-building press. What we need is someone devoted to the job — not themselves.

The DOJ desperately needs leadership who takes their jobs — not themselves — very, very seriously. And Holder is NOT the person to do that, in my opinion.

eCAHN, the DH and I have been to their studio/home many times. They are truly lovely people who live in a rather isolated area..back road sort of place. You really have to WANT to get there — they are several roads away from a major road, so I am going to put my bets on someone who might even be a neighbor of theirs. Very bad.

Takin’ it to the streets to force “Justice” to deliver some:

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/….._1106.html

This is kind of OT but Wednesday at our DFA meeting two new attendees were refugees from DeeCee and were telling us about the destruction of the historical records in the different agencies. The woman was a contract worker for the EPA for a while and the the EPA library was closed down and they just pulled up garbage trucks up and dumped everything. They did the same for the National Fish & Game records, references and maps back to the 1800 were just tossed in the garbage. (the reason they left)

Thanks for all the diggs, gang…

A neighbor who would do something like that is truly creepy.

Hear her! You go, Christy! Marty for OLC!

I figured out W would do this back in about 05.

Silver lining: nothing to put in W “library” except My Pet Goat.

Wouldn’t he do a superb job of restoring the mess at OLC? His prior experience working there would be a great base, but even more so, his last few years of trying to smack sense into DOJ over poorly reasoned analysis which they still yet have failed to fully repudiate would be invaluable as a starting point.

good for obama. love it.

Marty Lederman has been adamant that the OLC opinions, no matter how bad, fact omitting, and outright insane – are nonetheless indeed “golden shields” for all criminal activity undertaken in reliance on them.

For me, that rules him out. OLC needs to be headed by someone who will issue opinions with the clear and absolute understanding that they are and always will be subject to Judicial abrogation and that the only way they provide a shield is if they are a good workproduct.

I really like the big smile.
I don’t know enough about law to pipe in here, but I’ll lurk and learn.
Just wanted to say good morning and I’m watching you…(the plural yous).

Yes, my point exactly — this would be someone who they had perhaps “broken bread” with or worked at the local church with..someone who perhaps they had used in terms of building something on their property..who perhaps had access to their home…someone whose kids perhaps had taken pottery lessons in their studio(something I have lusted after doing for a long time). One minute, they are people who feel totally integrated into the fabric of their little community — the next..they realize that there are people there who perhaps hate them and would think nothing about doing something like burning the house down around their ears at night. They have sunk everything they’ve got into their studio and outdoor kiln. I think it might be the only Japanese style hillside kiln on the eastcoast. It is truly awful.

You know, the more I think about it, the more I realise it’s a direct poke in W’s & Cheney’s eyes. Not that they’ll notice.

My impression was that Marty looks at that as “how things are, which means we have to be very, very careful as to how this is produced” — a warning out front, of sorts, on selecting better people for it. Because that’s how the precedent rests at this point in terms of challenges or not in the courts.

Not so much on what could be should something be challenged, but more how things have been and still are. As in, not a discussion of policy philosophy but an interpretation of existing legal standards and a warning as to more thoughtful selection of personnel going forward. But I could be wrong…

Okay. How do you see Judicial abrogation working @ DOJ. Theoretically, I mean.

taken pottery lessons in their studio(something I have lusted after doing for a long time

With Unchained Melody playing in the background? *g*

Send me an email with any updates.

Yes, Lederman is a brilliant idea. However, can you imagine Emmanuel accepting an OLC head who might cause problems? I can’t. Emmanuel isn’t the only person making the decision, of course, but I’d guess he will have a lot of say in the matter.

Yes, he would be marvelous. If you haven’t , do check out TPM for the Obama Administration’s flow-chart. In it, the Executive Branch answers to the Constitution and includes the Vice President.

No more Fourth Branch! Never, ever again!

WJ guest just reported that Hillary ran a dysfunctonal campaign. Dya think! And that’s the last thing I would have expected from her.

I think Emmanuel won’t be making that level of decision. And that makes me smile, too.

It’s linked in my 10.

The entire DOJ needs revamped, not only OLC. Due process and equal protection in this country is virtually non-existent which means there needs to be a house cleaning at SCOTUS, federal and state judges. If, in fact, the DOJ, SCOTUS, federal and state courts can be reformed ever it will take a generation.

G’morning all !

So good, I have to share …

it really shook me because my Dad worked for the various state Fish & Game departments when I was a kid….. the National F&G stopped doing any reporting from the various states. So there has been no over site of the federal funds that went to the states & the results. (no big surprise here)

So with the loss of the historical records and stopping any reporting any new department heads are going to be working blind. The new EPA head will not have any of the history, studies, what worked and what didn’t. And now there are no records to show where the allocated monies when and what they did with it since many stopped any reporting.

I know that feeling~I am Jewish. My husband was not. People didn’t know and would say things that showed me just how tenuous their tolerance was….Its a very slippery slope and I feel like we’e just retreated from the prepicice…still got a ways to go to saftey but headed in the right direction….

My fellow Americans, the reign of witches is at an end.

-G

Bwahahahaha.

Talk about denial.

yep – you can be sure of that. And no..no ‘unchained melody’ in the background. More like “Devil in a Blue Dress” *g

Time and time again, as the campaign progressed, or regressed, according to one’s viewpoint, I would observe HRC’s campaign and remember Michael Moore’s “Stupid White Men”

Yes, and that is what concerns the thugs, among other things. They are about to lose control. I worry about an overcorrection.

How about computer records? Were they destroyed too? Can records be reconstructed because other parties have copies?

I agree completely and we need the Civil Rights division staffed immediately and a new Arizona US Attorney asap to follow up on Phoenix Phil Gorden’s civil rights complaints filed against Sheriff Joe.

It can’t happen fast enough

Ah…”Devil in a Blue Dress” …my theme song. *g*

Excellent! Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Iyn5JAKZQ

It I see them at our next meeting I will ask a lot of questions. This is very important issue and it applies to every government department. How can a new administration “hit the ground running” when history and reporting is gone. Where do you start from and how do you analyze and plan to go forward?

37 – But there is no precedent for use of olc opinions for as reasonable reliance shields for undertaking assaultive criminal activities and when Marty has been challeneged on that, he can’t really come up with a reason “why” an OLC opinion can shield murder and torture, other than the fact that the DOJ wouldn’t prosecute what it spawned.

And when you get down to it, there is no real check for the OLC no matter who sits in which seats, if you stack it with people who believe that the opinions can actuallly exempt members of the Executive from the consequences of the law. I don’t care if you say, “oh, well, bc they believe that they’ll be careful” or “well, since they believe that they’ll use and abuse it to the max” The fact is, that ideology in and of itself – agreement to insulation from consequences – is dangerous and has no place in OLC.

Certainly, no law firm would have given reliance opinions like the OLC opinions and that isn’t bc they don’t understand that it’s a good thing to be thoughtful – - – it’s bc they know their clients bear the consequences if they get it wrong. You cannot sever OLC’s clients from consequences and you can’t put someone in charge of OLC who believes that you can.

For that matter, there needs to be some real restructuring of the dept and rules on this nonsense of “classified” legal reasoning and opinions not being provided to Congressional committees an in redacted form to the public.

As a complete aside – go look at most of the worst opinions and one thing you’ll notice is a pretty complete lack of any facts section for analysis. Not redacted facts sections, just no facts at all. There’s no sound legal work product that omits facts. Any analysis of legal writing makes it pretty clear how important the facts are to the ultimate product, but Yoos and Philbins and Flanigans et al seem to be allergic to them.

so glad you showed up on this thread – that’s been something weighing on me, but wasn’t sure i remembered correctly.

i do not want to see the obama continue down bush’s path of repudiating the nuremberg principles with a simple trick of appointing lawyers who will tell him what he wants to hear.

more change please.

You know, W gave that speech to his staff yesterday about how they need to be extra special helpful on the transition. As I watched a part of it, I was wondering how the opposite would work out, since he’s said the opposite to what he’s done every single time. Records is clearly an example.

38 – the same as it does outside the DOJ buddy system.

I have to say, I am not content to let bygones be bygones. I really want Addington, Cheney et al doing the frogmarch.

More of this please!

Sure, completely understandable with no facts. They were not put there to do THAT sort of job.

oooh me likey !

prescient bastid

So, if Marty’s views on OLC aren’t adequate in your mind — whose are? Any particular folks that spring to mind for you?

Probably unworkable as a practical matter.

I did not understand the significance of Yoo’s role at OLC till I saw the Frontline, Cheney’s Law. It seems to be a very important position indeed, particularly in the hands of someone who’s idea of the presidency goes beyond the limits imposed especially by the bill of rights. I don’t believe the Obama White House would follow in Cheney’s footsteps. That would be a good thing.

off the top of my head

as always, in the end their greed will be their undoing . . . somewhere, somebody cashed a gubmint check…and there is always a record of that

these thugs never did anything without somebody gettin’ paid :D

At this point it is difficult to know how many Regent/Liberty Univ grads, and similar thinking types have been placed at Justice or any other branch within the government. How much bureaucratic resistance will purposely stall new policy until they are ferreted out?

Strong arm directors and tactics will be needed.

this is the essence of the ratchet effect – and why we have to fight against it.

The American political system, since at least 1968, has been operating like a ratchet, and both parties — Republicans and Democrats — play crucial, mutually reinforcing roles in its operation.

The electoral ratchet permits movement only in the rightward direction. The Republican role is fairly clear; the Republicans apply the torque that rotates the thing rightward.

The Democrats’ role is a little less obvious. The Democrats are the pawl. They don’t resist the rightward movement — they let it happen — but whenever the rightward force slackens momentarily, for whatever reason, the Democrats click into place and keep the machine from rotating back to the left.

this is just a bit of a larger essay.

I was and am hoping to see Sheldon Whitehouse have a hand in OLC, somewhere.
Great pic, Christy!

sidebar to selise — saw your request when I checked back at EMS. Left you a link for the Strib article on the debunked stem cell research at end of last thread.

Yes, it will be a difficult job. But, I hope that we don’t go after all those folks. Just does not seem fair. Leadership is the key, imo.

the guy who voted for telco immunity?

love whitehouse, but not for olc.

We need to find the little lever that allows the ratchet to turn to the left.

Ought to be able to identify Regent/Liberty grads. They’ll be the most incompetent ones.

thank you!!!

Not to rain on the parade…..but I think Jonathan Turley’s name ought to be on the short-list as well.

lol. that’s perfect.

i wish.

Thats is why the problem will take care of itself.

CHS:

I don’t like the picture. No one would ever guess you were once ReddHedd.

Finding them is one thing. Removing them from civil service positions is quite another.

Gee, WJ is running a segment for R callers only, on what the party should do next. Amazingly, most of them make sense. Seems to have drawn out the moderate Rs who’ve been very unhappy with Rove et al.

Nothing much about foreign policy. More about inclusiveness & fiscal conservatism. (Would challenge that myth, but it would be nice if they’d do it.)

You know, people probably say that about WVU law grads as well, since it’s a third tier law school. But I would argue that my brain does function at least reasonably well most days (after coffee ingestion). You can’t just look at schooling and implications thereof — because some of those folks may be very sharp and very capable, and dedicated to the job itself not some ideological purity perspective…which is why a wholesale purge concept is anathema to the very concept of justice.

It’s going to be a tough road, and a balancing one by its very nature, to weed through the qualified versus the not, the purity test folks versus the ones with integrity about doing the job well. While no one should be given a pass for doing a crap job, they also should not be pre-judged by association alone.

It sure would be nice if peeps on obama’s staff read the lake

Make em feel uncomfortable/isolate em so they quit. That should be easy. I’ll bet they haven’t lived in a real world & won’t want to. (OTOH, I’ve never met one, so I’m just making that up. I could be totally wrong.)

and back to their greed for a moment-

a computerized sort will reveal plenty – any bets there are innumerable incidents of G16’s popping up where there should be a G14 ???

it’s what they do

Dugg.
Grab your shovels. I wonder if we (Progressives) will have more of a voice in the Obama Administration. It’d be and astounding miracle to see choices and policy based on or at the least include our input. Like, what if all our calls to the Senate and House really “mattered”, unlike FISA and the other atrocities that were allowed to pass in the face of loud and persistent opposition from “out here”, we the “little people”.

Gosh, I wish I had said that. Guess that is why I am not an atty?

Well, the competent ones can stay, n’est pas?

And I would guess (caveat in my 85) that Liberty/Regents are several steps below WVU.

Christy, I could care less what school someone came from. Their stated goal to change the the country into their version of a theocracy concerns me greatly.

i don’t know any reason to exclude him, and lots of reason to like him. will be interested to know what others here think. thanks.

eCAHN, why would it have to be that way? That feels “gamey” and underhanded to me. Why can’t Obama’s people go in there and just clean house? Go over each and every employee and just replace the Bu$hies, why would they even need an explanation?

We’re talking about civil service employees, not political appointees. It’s hard to fire the former.

bc that would be ” anathema to the very concept of justice.” See?

I finally have something to say.
I guess the concept of justice is like the concept of tolerance in that they both have to be a two way street. There is something about open mindedness there, I’m not sure how to say it though.

cspan reports that the REAL Sarkozy called Obama. Heh.

You are correct and win the kewpie doll.

I will make them famous, you will know their names ! . . .
Encyclopedia of Ethical Failures (MSWord doc)

WASHINGTON — Government workers who are caught misbehaving often are suspended, fired or prosecuted for their misdeeds. Then, when all that is done, they face one last humiliation — a virtual dressing down at the hands of Pentagon lawyer Stephen Epstein.

Mr. Epstein, the director of the Pentagon’s Standards of Conduct Office, is mounting an ethical cleansing offensive from inside the corridors of power. His weapon of choice is the “Encyclopedia of Ethical Failure,” a hit parade he publishes on the Internet to regale bureaucrats with tales of shenanigans and shockingly bad judgment that have shot down careers

and no Monica, it is not a yearbook

I do understand the point. I do see.
And I don’t know HOW anyone’s going to clean out that place and restore our DOJ. I was just hoping it would NOT, as many have previously suggested, take maybe years to ferret out the Bu$h ilk.
It seems a daunting task.

Thank you. If you would kindly donate that to some charity as a holiday gift. I’m trying to not acquire any more “stuff.” *g*

No one said it would be easy. They wanted a permanent thug majority by infiltrating and corrupting the system. They were good at it. Dems are good (relatively) at being fair. Takes time.

OT but IMHO it’s going to be important to beat back the Republicon and corporate media meme that the U.S. is still a center right country. This has to be vigorously beaten down.

I just donated to KPBS. Would that count? Be careful you will be mistaken as a lib if you persist in your line of thought.

Interesting. He must have been talking about the quasi-war with revolutionary France. It sounds quite a bit like Paul Krugman’s short editorial about the end of monsters. I assume parts of the “witches” concotions were the Alien and Sediation Acts.

Since being in office Mukasey has flown home every weekend at a taxpayer expense of over 150K. Do you think he will make the 2008 edition?

68 – had to leave to take care of my dependents and now I’m having to go do real work, but that’s a question that would take a lot of real digging to answer with assurance. And in the end, I’m not sure that that the answers would matter, bc with his picks so far, starting way back with the flip in 2004 to say that he was in line with Bush’s Iraq strategy, then his backing of Lieberman in CT, and crystalizing in his approach on FISA and continuing through the touts on his COS and likely Treasury picks, it’s pretty clear that opinions like mine aren’t really part and parcel with the Obama approach.

But if I have to go off the cuff and without digging, I’d say even Bruce Fein (who I disagree with on much) would make me happier at OLC, but someone like Alberto Mora, who exhorted (or maybe excoriated would be a better choice?) Yoo and Haynes to at least do a decent enough job to “protect your client” (a man who understands consequences) and who has dealt, in a hands on fashion, with the difficulties faced by the military during these times and who could still stand fight, then fight again, then again, and after losing battle after battle, STILL do this:

In exasperation, according to another participant, Mora said that whether the Pentagon enshrined it as official policy or not, the Geneva conventions were already written into both U.S. and international law. Any grave breach of them, at home or abroad, was classified as a war crime. To emphasize his position, he took out a copy of the text of U.S. Code 18.2441, the War Crimes Act, which forbids the violation of Common Article Three, and read from it. The point, Mora told me, was that “it’s a statute. It exists—we’re not free to disregard it. We’re bound by it. It’s been adopted by the Congress. And we’re not the only interpreters of it. Other nations could have U.S. officials arrested.”

The fact is that the best pick, though, is not likely to come from a survey of names in the news. It needs a really sound approach and no matter how sound, Congress should also institute a statutory frameword to establish standards and accountabliligy at OLC instead of just allowing the internal regs to create a chaosland

A “good pick” is only a tiny piece of the puzzle. Congress has to do its job and set the rules and make sure they can be implemented and that violations have consequences. Since neither thing is likely to happen, a good pick or a Congressional approach that would limit the ability to do things like set up torture gulags (after all, Schumer was a big torture advocate – so where does having Dems in control get us on that front?) and since my opinion and a quarter won’t even rate as a tip for a cuppa Starbucks, I guess it doesn’t matter. But I have a hard time biting my tongue – and since my family is from WV originally, and I’m related to both the Hatfields and the McCoys, and red hair abounds in my family to boot, I’m just going to have to ask for your understanding on that. ;)

73 – that sounds interesting Selise. I’m going to have to come back tonight and read that. Thanks for the link

{to clarify 110, Fein would make me happier (in the sense of less bummed) than Lederman but on any scale, someone like Mora with that kind of fiber would be what it would take to really land in any of the happy zones

I came late. I don’t have anyone that I could give an unreserved recommendation to head the OLC. I have problems with Lederman similar to those cited by Mary at #33. As for Mora, I was exasperated that it took him so long to realize that he had been had and then never really led or spoke out in any sustained fashion against what occurred. Fein I have real problems with. IIRC he backed immunity for the telecoms and I think that is indicative of how he views individual rights.

So shorter version: I could live with either Lederman or Mora and probably would support them far more than the Cass Sunstein clone Obama is likely to pick.

You know I am right there with you on the redheaded temper thing. *G*

How to circumvent the constitution
It really needs to said how important your “take” on this is.In my opinion the olc was the primary tool for this coup.They khew they had a limited time frame to work in and the olc was a very important barrier.I know that you’re well aware of all their tactics so I won’t waste your time but the lessons learned here are going to be used again.If nothing else is accomplished the olc has to be neutered

Can someone not sue to stop this, or is it too late?

I don’t know anything about Marty Lederman, and can’t watch hours-long videos right now, but if he’s honest, knows the law, and has enough courage to go after the people who’ve been screwing up DoJ the last few years, he’s my guy, too.

We need someone like that, badly.