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	<title>Comments on: 50 State Strategy Being Killed by Letting the Organizers Go</title>
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		<title>By: wibsmith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1718388</link>
		<dc:creator>wibsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 02:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1718388</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In response to scory @ 66..&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with the sentiments, and the need to use all the talent we can muster to continue the effort. given that:&lt;br /&gt;
 The bottom up money raised for the campaign was to &lt;em&gt;elect&lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; Obama, to defeat the Bush/McCain fiasco.&lt;br /&gt;
 Continuing the organizing effort requires a different approach. It has different objectives short term, and will be negotiated locally.  If you were to get the top 150 state organizing people together to get a set of goals, objectives, issues, the results would be all over….some congruence, sure, but that kind of organizing has to deal with the existing, day in/out issues the local party people deal with and know. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps worst case situation.  In rural TN, AK, NC, GA there may have been an inverse Obama effect….many of these counties went up to 20% more Republican than Kerry experienced.  And some of the voters were Democrats, and some are influential in their local party apparatus. In deep blue areas, the issues and approaches will be vastly different. There are already existing Democratic organizations in all 50 states, some strong, some not so great. How integrate? How get that famous discipline?  How energize when an exciting election is not pending? Lots of thinking out needed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;OK, so the key is finding common ground, common issues those voters and progressive voters can mutually support.  I am echoing Obama here, and I am sure he is aware that he will have to generate common support through consensus issues to launch, move and sustain his programs. And it must be bottom up or it will not work.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Keeping 50 to 150 top notch organizers on a payroll without some really good thought as to what they will do, and how the work differs enormously from getting Obama elected presents cart/horse problems.&lt;br /&gt;
I think, and fervently hope thought has been given to this, and I do not know that it has.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree with &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:chadlupkes@70.&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;chadlupkes@70.&lt;/a&gt;  These guys knew what their job was.  They will have few problems moving on and up, and the farther and higher they go, the better off we all are. Keep your eye on them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to scory @ 66..<br />
I agree with the sentiments, and the need to use all the talent we can muster to continue the effort. given that:<br />
 The bottom up money raised for the campaign was to <em>elect</em><strong></strong> Obama, to defeat the Bush/McCain fiasco.<br />
 Continuing the organizing effort requires a different approach. It has different objectives short term, and will be negotiated locally.  If you were to get the top 150 state organizing people together to get a set of goals, objectives, issues, the results would be all over….some congruence, sure, but that kind of organizing has to deal with the existing, day in/out issues the local party people deal with and know. </p>
<p>Perhaps worst case situation.  In rural TN, AK, NC, GA there may have been an inverse Obama effect….many of these counties went up to 20% more Republican than Kerry experienced.  And some of the voters were Democrats, and some are influential in their local party apparatus. In deep blue areas, the issues and approaches will be vastly different. There are already existing Democratic organizations in all 50 states, some strong, some not so great. How integrate? How get that famous discipline?  How energize when an exciting election is not pending? Lots of thinking out needed.</p>
<p>OK, so the key is finding common ground, common issues those voters and progressive voters can mutually support.  I am echoing Obama here, and I am sure he is aware that he will have to generate common support through consensus issues to launch, move and sustain his programs. And it must be bottom up or it will not work.  </p>
<p>Keeping 50 to 150 top notch organizers on a payroll without some really good thought as to what they will do, and how the work differs enormously from getting Obama elected presents cart/horse problems.<br />
I think, and fervently hope thought has been given to this, and I do not know that it has.  </p>
<p>I agree with <a href="mailto:chadlupkes@70." rel="nofollow">chadlupkes@70.</a>  These guys knew what their job was.  They will have few problems moving on and up, and the farther and higher they go, the better off we all are. Keep your eye on them.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeGuy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1718070</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 21:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1718070</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think they are just floating this idea to see what the reaction will be. So many of the best people in the party are still focusing on the past, on the way things used to be rather than the way they are now. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need to bring these experienced party officials along now. We need their knowledge and contacts working with us. We can use their knowledge, and learn from the past without being bound to it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is exactly why Rahm Emanuel is much more helpful on the inside shooting arrows out, rather than on the outside shooting arrows in. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The fact is, we need more than 60 Senate seats to get 60 votes in the Senate. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we want to get real control of our Government and keep it, we need to get over the old idea of states that count and those that don’t. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We also need to get over the idea that after the election, you can just fold your tent and go home. We need community organizers working all the time, not just parachuting in when we need something.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they are just floating this idea to see what the reaction will be. So many of the best people in the party are still focusing on the past, on the way things used to be rather than the way they are now. </p>
<p>We need to bring these experienced party officials along now. We need their knowledge and contacts working with us. We can use their knowledge, and learn from the past without being bound to it. </p>
<p>This is exactly why Rahm Emanuel is much more helpful on the inside shooting arrows out, rather than on the outside shooting arrows in. </p>
<p>The fact is, we need more than 60 Senate seats to get 60 votes in the Senate. </p>
<p>If we want to get real control of our Government and keep it, we need to get over the old idea of states that count and those that don’t. </p>
<p>We also need to get over the idea that after the election, you can just fold your tent and go home. We need community organizers working all the time, not just parachuting in when we need something.</p>
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		<title>By: Meander</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717979</link>
		<dc:creator>Meander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717979</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Unbelievably stupid.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;Wonder if Obama’s ok with this?&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think that he’s just fine with it, actually - he’ll certainly never mention it. I’m learning to live with disappointment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unbelievably stupid.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Wonder if Obama’s ok with this?</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think that he’s just fine with it, actually &#8211; he’ll certainly never mention it. I’m learning to live with disappointment.</p>
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		<title>By: chadlupkes</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717858</link>
		<dc:creator>chadlupkes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717858</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve known about this for about a month.  Here is my blog post about it:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://wa-demchairs.org/blog/node/252&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://wa-demchairs.org/blog/node/252&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Please read the comments, including one from our state tech director.  Many of the people who worked hard on this election want to move on and move up.  I’m already getting emails from Obama delegates who want to run for City Council here in Seattle, and I’m sure that’s true all across the country.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We need to hold fast to our ideals of grassroots organizing, no matter what the DNC does and no matter what happens to the Barack Obama campaign.  We can push for the national party to be smart and keep the organization running, but now that the election is over, we don’t know what the financial realities are of keeping it running.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only thing that we can do is to keep organizing locally so we have groups ready to be plugged in to another national campaign in 2010.  Remember, &lt;em&gt;we have the power&lt;/em&gt;, and that power grows every time we attend a meeting, hold an event or contact one of our elected officials.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By the way, I’m going to be stepping down from my role as Chair of the Washington State Progressive Caucus so I can focus on the 46th Legislative District in North Seattle.  I’m running for Chair of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://46dems.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;46th District Democrats&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve known about this for about a month.  Here is my blog post about it:</p>
<p><a href="http://wa-demchairs.org/blog/node/252" rel="nofollow">http://wa-demchairs.org/blog/node/252</a></p>
<p>Please read the comments, including one from our state tech director.  Many of the people who worked hard on this election want to move on and move up.  I’m already getting emails from Obama delegates who want to run for City Council here in Seattle, and I’m sure that’s true all across the country.</p>
<p>We need to hold fast to our ideals of grassroots organizing, no matter what the DNC does and no matter what happens to the Barack Obama campaign.  We can push for the national party to be smart and keep the organization running, but now that the election is over, we don’t know what the financial realities are of keeping it running.</p>
<p>The only thing that we can do is to keep organizing locally so we have groups ready to be plugged in to another national campaign in 2010.  Remember, <em>we have the power</em>, and that power grows every time we attend a meeting, hold an event or contact one of our elected officials.</p>
<p>By the way, I’m going to be stepping down from my role as Chair of the Washington State Progressive Caucus so I can focus on the 46th Legislative District in North Seattle.  I’m running for Chair of the <a href="http://46dems.com" rel="nofollow">46th District Democrats</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: PJEvans</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717803</link>
		<dc:creator>PJEvans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 15:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717803</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If this is true, then the guys who are doing the firing have forgotten that those being fired are &lt;em&gt;trained community organizers&lt;/em&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
Want to bet that it doesn’t come back to haunt them in the next two years?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The organizational abilities will be &lt;strong&gt;outside of the party’s control&lt;/strong&gt; and able to get people moving for candidates who are &lt;strong&gt;outside of the party structure&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
Yes. We. CAN!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this is true, then the guys who are doing the firing have forgotten that those being fired are <em>trained community organizers</em>.<br />
Want to bet that it doesn’t come back to haunt them in the next two years?</p>
<p>The organizational abilities will be <strong>outside of the party’s control</strong> and able to get people moving for candidates who are <strong>outside of the party structure</strong>.<br />
Yes. We. CAN!</p>
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		<title>By: lesserdevil</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717690</link>
		<dc:creator>lesserdevil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 13:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve thought that a lot.  So far it’s looking a lot like Lucy snatched the football away, but it’s still early.  I’ve always thought the people should have had a lot more say in government than who we elect.  The only accountability comes at election times, and I’ve never thought that’s enough.  It looked to me like Obama veered right and stayed on that course throughout the election.  He could have switched parties after Caribou Barbie made the scene, and he still would have been elected.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s just my opinion.  I’m usually happy when I’m wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve thought that a lot.  So far it’s looking a lot like Lucy snatched the football away, but it’s still early.  I’ve always thought the people should have had a lot more say in government than who we elect.  The only accountability comes at election times, and I’ve never thought that’s enough.  It looked to me like Obama veered right and stayed on that course throughout the election.  He could have switched parties after Caribou Barbie made the scene, and he still would have been elected.</p>
<p>That’s just my opinion.  I’m usually happy when I’m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Primrose</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717689</link>
		<dc:creator>Primrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717689</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Emanuel = Bremer&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Same strategy — different results? Prolly not.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emanuel = Bremer</p>
<p>Same strategy — different results? Prolly not.</p>
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		<title>By: scory</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717688</link>
		<dc:creator>scory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717688</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, indeed. But think about this:  There are a lot of good reasons to maintain Democratic organizations in all 50 states — the least of which is it creates a conduit for good candidates to be identified from the rank and file.  There’s been a lot of talk about “better Democrats” and maintaining the organizers either helps to identify good candidates, or creates an opportunity for a successful organizer to run for election at the local or state level.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The other real benefit is to maintain a counterweight to the DLC, or what remains of them.  There’s no need to “move to the right” or to “triangulate” or whatever f*ck all nonsense the DLC was blathering about.  The Democratic Party can establish a legislative and policy agenda where its various parts want it to — not where corporate sponsors demand they go.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama’s campaign money came from small donors; Dean’s funding of the 50 state strategy came from small donations (mine among them).  If Rahmbo thinks his is the only way, we need to remind him that just as quickly as we made money available, we can shut it off.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, indeed. But think about this:  There are a lot of good reasons to maintain Democratic organizations in all 50 states — the least of which is it creates a conduit for good candidates to be identified from the rank and file.  There’s been a lot of talk about “better Democrats” and maintaining the organizers either helps to identify good candidates, or creates an opportunity for a successful organizer to run for election at the local or state level.</p>
<p>The other real benefit is to maintain a counterweight to the DLC, or what remains of them.  There’s no need to “move to the right” or to “triangulate” or whatever f*ck all nonsense the DLC was blathering about.  The Democratic Party can establish a legislative and policy agenda where its various parts want it to — not where corporate sponsors demand they go.</p>
<p>Obama’s campaign money came from small donors; Dean’s funding of the 50 state strategy came from small donations (mine among them).  If Rahmbo thinks his is the only way, we need to remind him that just as quickly as we made money available, we can shut it off.</p>
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		<title>By: megpiepie1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717683</link>
		<dc:creator>megpiepie1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 11:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717683</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Al Giorgano has his Field Hands that are still organizing and keeping the grass roots going. Check out his site. There are a lot of level headed people over there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al Giorgano has his Field Hands that are still organizing and keeping the grass roots going. Check out his site. There are a lot of level headed people over there.</p>
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		<title>By: wibsmith</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-go/#comment-1717681</link>
		<dc:creator>wibsmith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 10:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/07/50-state-strategy-being-killed-by-letting-the-organizers-going/#comment-1717681</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wait:  Think about it.&lt;br /&gt;
  Keeping 50 organizers for what purpose?  If they are kept because we won [or even if not] then that is the start of an established bureaucracy.  I am not sure any of us want that. These guys are &lt;em&gt;organizers&lt;/em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;, have learned a bunch, and know the bottom up routine.  They have talent and will be progressive forces wherever they land. Keeping them on without a bottoms up push and local support flies in the face of what they accomplished.&lt;br /&gt;
Some will continue organizing, if they find local consensus issues that bring people together.  If not, what do they do?  Looking for raison d’etre&lt;br /&gt;
is demoralizing.&lt;br /&gt;
We already have way too many 501[c]{3} organizations that should have folded their tents long ago.&lt;br /&gt;
I really hope all this talent, the assistants, staff do get into community organizing.  And it must be bottom up.  Keeping them on a string is top down.&lt;br /&gt;
Obama knows this.  Read Alinsky.  There will be opportunities.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait:  Think about it.<br />
  Keeping 50 organizers for what purpose?  If they are kept because we won [or even if not] then that is the start of an established bureaucracy.  I am not sure any of us want that. These guys are <em>organizers</em><strong></strong>, have learned a bunch, and know the bottom up routine.  They have talent and will be progressive forces wherever they land. Keeping them on without a bottoms up push and local support flies in the face of what they accomplished.<br />
Some will continue organizing, if they find local consensus issues that bring people together.  If not, what do they do?  Looking for raison d’etre<br />
is demoralizing.<br />
We already have way too many 501[c]{3} organizations that should have folded their tents long ago.<br />
I really hope all this talent, the assistants, staff do get into community organizing.  And it must be bottom up.  Keeping them on a string is top down.<br />
Obama knows this.  Read Alinsky.  There will be opportunities.</p>
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