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	<title>Comments on: America Elects a Black Man and Makes Gays the New Second Class Citizens</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: HotFlash</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714125</link>
		<dc:creator>HotFlash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714125</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What perris said.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What perris said.</p>
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		<title>By: hazmaq</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714104</link>
		<dc:creator>hazmaq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714104</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m going to tell a truth, but many will not like it.  I’m saying it because it’s going to become a problem, and as a law student we should discuss it further.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A Latina leader has been all over the networks in effect, claiming it was the Latino community that put Obama where he is, and we all better darn well know it and remember that they are a force to be reckoned with and blah,blah&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No one dared ask her how much her community also contributed to the sudden multi-state successes of the gay marriage ban.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m asking..&lt;br /&gt;
And I want to know if Roe v. Wade is next.&lt;br /&gt;
And Planned Parenthood.  Her male counterpart in the Latino community vowed to fill the huge gap of ‘workers’ we American women left by choosing to have small families - to protect and preserve our resources.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Is ANWR next, and coal and nuclear plants to supply fuel for a population explosion in America?&lt;br /&gt;
Just askin..because now she demands a quid pro quo from Obama.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But waaay before that even gets started &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;WE the people&lt;/strong&gt; need to talk…&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m going to tell a truth, but many will not like it.  I’m saying it because it’s going to become a problem, and as a law student we should discuss it further.</p>
<p>A Latina leader has been all over the networks in effect, claiming it was the Latino community that put Obama where he is, and we all better darn well know it and remember that they are a force to be reckoned with and blah,blah</p>
<p>No one dared ask her how much her community also contributed to the sudden multi-state successes of the gay marriage ban.</p>
<p>I’m asking..<br />
And I want to know if Roe v. Wade is next.<br />
And Planned Parenthood.  Her male counterpart in the Latino community vowed to fill the huge gap of ‘workers’ we American women left by choosing to have small families &#8211; to protect and preserve our resources.</p>
<p>Is ANWR next, and coal and nuclear plants to supply fuel for a population explosion in America?<br />
Just askin..because now she demands a quid pro quo from Obama.</p>
<p>But waaay before that even gets started <em><strong>WE the people</strong> need to talk…</em></p>
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		<title>By: Cellar47</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714100</link>
		<dc:creator>Cellar47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:19:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714100</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;TAX THE CHURCH!!!!!!&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>TAX THE CHURCH!!!!!!</strong></p>
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		<title>By: Cellar47</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714099</link>
		<dc:creator>Cellar47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 00:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714099</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://fablog.ehrensteinland.com/2008/11/05/fait-diver-the-puppy-episode-strikes-back/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here are my thoughts on the matter.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://fablog.ehrensteinland.com/2008/11/05/fait-diver-the-puppy-episode-strikes-back/" rel="nofollow">Here are my thoughts on the matter.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Irradiatus</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714094</link>
		<dc:creator>Irradiatus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714094</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://biochemicalsoul.com/2008/11/proposition-8-politics-science-and-constitutional-bigotry/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://biochemicalsoul.com/200.....l-bigotry/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the hypocrisy and irony of this vote - from a scientist perspective.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://biochemicalsoul.com/2008/11/proposition-8-politics-science-and-constitutional-bigotry/" rel="nofollow">http://biochemicalsoul.com/200&#8230;..l-bigotry/</a></p>
<p>On the hypocrisy and irony of this vote &#8211; from a scientist perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: mikemidcity</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714092</link>
		<dc:creator>mikemidcity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714092</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Let’s get it back.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What the hell does the Church of Latter-Day Sain’ts and the Holy Roman Catholic Church doing in the California Constitution anyway?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The don’t just hate gays they like underaged girls and boys and hide child-molesters in this church or that church.  Disgusting hypocrites.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let’s get it back.</p>
<p>What the hell does the Church of Latter-Day Sain’ts and the Holy Roman Catholic Church doing in the California Constitution anyway?</p>
<p>The don’t just hate gays they like underaged girls and boys and hide child-molesters in this church or that church.  Disgusting hypocrites.</p>
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		<title>By: caia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714089</link>
		<dc:creator>caia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714089</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Others know the history of marriage better than I, but I have read that marriages used to primarily be civil contracts, conducted for property and inheritance rights.  Religious institutions were secondary.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In either case, that’s not the point.  Why should I have to &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; a religious group… or union (?!) or badminton club to sponsor my marriage?  Why do I need a group at all?  Under legal marriage as it stands, all I need to get married is a blood test and a partner also of legal age.  (I live in Massachusetts, so the gender of the partner is also up to me.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Marriage” is a powerful word.  Those for and against gay marriage know it; people who vote against gay “marriage” can often be convinced on “civil unions”.  But that’s still the back of the bus, even if the bus goes to the same place.  It’s separate, and unequal.  You’re advocating handing over this powerful word to the theocrats (what else can you call it when a church thinks they should be allowed to dictate civil law), and leaving the rest of us with “civil unions” which have never meant anything, but were created to placate gays… and as Connecticut’s recent ruling describes, are inferior and unequal to marriage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To be clear, I don’t disagree about separating legal and religious unions.  I just don’t see why precedence should go to religions.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Others know the history of marriage better than I, but I have read that marriages used to primarily be civil contracts, conducted for property and inheritance rights.  Religious institutions were secondary.</p>
<p>In either case, that’s not the point.  Why should I have to <i>have</i> a religious group… or union (?!) or badminton club to sponsor my marriage?  Why do I need a group at all?  Under legal marriage as it stands, all I need to get married is a blood test and a partner also of legal age.  (I live in Massachusetts, so the gender of the partner is also up to me.)</p>
<p>“Marriage” is a powerful word.  Those for and against gay marriage know it; people who vote against gay “marriage” can often be convinced on “civil unions”.  But that’s still the back of the bus, even if the bus goes to the same place.  It’s separate, and unequal.  You’re advocating handing over this powerful word to the theocrats (what else can you call it when a church thinks they should be allowed to dictate civil law), and leaving the rest of us with “civil unions” which have never meant anything, but were created to placate gays… and as Connecticut’s recent ruling describes, are inferior and unequal to marriage.</p>
<p>To be clear, I don’t disagree about separating legal and religious unions.  I just don’t see why precedence should go to religions.</p>
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		<title>By: nahant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714081</link>
		<dc:creator>nahant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714081</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;So let us gird ourselves for the next battle. Rights are always inalienable, but sadly they also must always be fought for. And it is that fight that stands before us. I hope all who read this today will join in that battle, for yourselves and your country as much as for your gay friends and fellow citizens. Because, in the end, a progressive movement, a liberal movement, which leaves gays behind is no movement worthy of any of us.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where do I sign up!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; I am still in disbelief that hate has been condoned by voters! There is no place for hate in our country as it belittles all of us even if you voted such proposition down, you are affected by this hate!!&lt;br /&gt;
Going forward we need to join with our gay/lesbian friends and neighbors and fight to end this atrocity and remove the hate from  our constitutions and laws.&lt;br /&gt;
Hopefully the ACLU will take up the banner and fight theses props in the courts! And maybe if we get the right kind of judges on the supreme court we can have such laws deemed Unconstitutional for the whole nation! After all it is discrimination against some one just because of their sexual inclinations! And oh by the way it is NOT a CHOICE is is just the way they are as was intended by God! Remember gays and lesbians have always been part of the human race and if fact it is endemic through out nature!! It is not a CHOICE!! But the way they are born, they can’t just CHANGE!&lt;br /&gt;
Well thats my rant and I will do what  I can to help to change the laws so our friends are not treated as second class citizens!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So let us gird ourselves for the next battle. Rights are always inalienable, but sadly they also must always be fought for. And it is that fight that stands before us. I hope all who read this today will join in that battle, for yourselves and your country as much as for your gay friends and fellow citizens. Because, in the end, a progressive movement, a liberal movement, which leaves gays behind is no movement worthy of any of us.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Where do I sign up!</p>
<p> I am still in disbelief that hate has been condoned by voters! There is no place for hate in our country as it belittles all of us even if you voted such proposition down, you are affected by this hate!!<br />
Going forward we need to join with our gay/lesbian friends and neighbors and fight to end this atrocity and remove the hate from  our constitutions and laws.<br />
Hopefully the ACLU will take up the banner and fight theses props in the courts! And maybe if we get the right kind of judges on the supreme court we can have such laws deemed Unconstitutional for the whole nation! After all it is discrimination against some one just because of their sexual inclinations! And oh by the way it is NOT a CHOICE is is just the way they are as was intended by God! Remember gays and lesbians have always been part of the human race and if fact it is endemic through out nature!! It is not a CHOICE!! But the way they are born, they can’t just CHANGE!<br />
Well thats my rant and I will do what  I can to help to change the laws so our friends are not treated as second class citizens!!</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714074</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714074</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;please have a read at my &lt;a href=&quot;http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1476/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;diary&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the history of government involvement in marriage is short lived in the first place and troublesome in the second&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>please have a read at my <a href="http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1476/" rel="nofollow">diary</a></p>
<p>the history of government involvement in marriage is short lived in the first place and troublesome in the second</p>
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		<title>By: Petrocelli</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714072</link>
		<dc:creator>Petrocelli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 23:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/america-elects-a-black-man-and-makes-gays-the-new-second-class-citizens/#comment-1714072</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That was quite a surprise for me as well … lots more work to be done.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was quite a surprise for me as well … lots more work to be done.</p>
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