If Californians vote no on Proposition 8, the great historical cross-cultural meaning of marriage will be replaced by the new government dogma on which gay marriage is based: There is no difference between same-sex unions and opposite-sex unions; anyone who thinks otherwise is just a bigot.
See what I mean?
Sure, this is an absurd argument, for several reasons. It’s rather a mystery how a defeat for 8 would be any more "government" imposed than a win for 8. It is also kind of entertaining how religiously informed opposition to gay marriage is not "dogma," yet support for equal rights is somehow some sort of quasi-mystical, sorta-socialist Holy Writ.
But what I’m fascinated by here is Gallagher’s victim-playing. If Prop 8 is voted down, as it should be, what’s the harm?… Why, people like Maggie Gallagher will face the terrifying prospect of maybe getting called a name!
As I travel across California and the country making the case for Proposition 8, I’m often asked, "Why do you care about restoring marriage?"
It’s a good question, and not just for me. Why are so many Californians rushing to street corners to hold up "Yes on 8" signs, enduring petty vandalism, and even pettier insults, to make the case for voting yes on Proposition 8?
Oh, my stars! Petty vandalism! Petty insults! Gays and those who support gay rights just cannot possibly understand such… such suffering… the BRUTES! Sob… sniffle… HONK. (Excuse me while I blow my nose).
This sort of weepy, wholly imaginary martyrdom is central to conservative identity politics — the relentless insistence that the American Conservative is Horribly Oppressed. It’s narcissism on a monumental scale. After all, the reason that Gallagher wants to Save Marriage, she says, is because she has to Save Civilization, which from time immemorial has depended on the notion that gay couples should not be able to jointly file income taxes. And also, of course, it’s all about The Children, for reasons that are, frankly, obnoxious to straight men, in Gallagher’s formulation:
if we want fathers to be there for children, and the mothers of their children, biology alone will not take us very far. We need a cultural mechanism to connect fathers to the mother-child bond. We also need an institution that communicates to the next generation — in the throes of its own erotic and romantic dramas — how seriously society takes the need to discipline those dramas so that children do not get hurt.
Geez, maybe if Prop 8 fails women will be forced to keep their hubbies in line with bribes of nachos and football, or on the other hand, kept from abandoning the wee ones by threatening us with, I dunno, tasers. If even such inducements can prevent the awful compulsions "biology" places upon us! We are so feeble, us straight men, alas. Meh.
But that’s a tangent. The real question is, who the hell died and made Maggie Gallagher the savior of humanity, the "One" whose mission it is to go out there and tell strangers what legal arrangements they must be forbidden from making for themselves for fear that they might offend against some amorphous World-Spirit and indeed Biology Itself? Well exactly that sort of celestial ascension into the cultural heavens is the flip side of the relentless self-crucifixion in which "conservatives" so ubiquitously engage. They’re always up there on their cardboard crosses, desperately pretending that the nails they themselves have clumsily glued to their palms were hammered into them by the Wicked Godless Liberals.
It’s a hell of a racket. But I for one am tired of seeing justice, fairness, and liberty denied because bigots like Gallagher want to act out their absurd psychodramas on a public stage. NO ON 8, dammit.
Related posts:
- BREAKING: California Court Upholds Prop 8, Allows Existing Marriages to Stand
- Prop 8 Decision: What to Expect from the California Supreme Court
- BREAKING: State Number Six — NH’s Governor Will Sign Marriage Equality Bill Today
- Late Night: Prop H8
- Chris Matthews Forces Birther Congressman to Admit Obama’s a Citizen





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From your lips to God’s ears.
I wouldn’t want to be called a bigot, either. That’s why I try hard not to act like one.
Oh dear sweet weeping Jeebus in the WC. LEt us start by categorically stating that her statement “the great historical cross-cultural meaning of marriage will be replaced by the new government dogma” is pure, unadulterated bullshit. There are in fact a large number of cultures in the world which allow same sex (though not same gender) marriages. Many Native American cultures did so, as do some in Africa. There are even a few groups, such as the Azande and Dahomey in Africa, which allow persons of the same sex and gender to marry. Illiterate, pig ignorant asshats.
There are in fact a large number of cultures in the world which allow same sex (though not same gender) marriages.
Hippie cultures!
thers!
What a drama queen. She needs to get over herself.
I don’t think “lying motherfuckers” is too florid for these people.
Anyway, Dr Dick, if that IS your real name, you’re wrong. Even a cursory examination of marriage laws from ancient Sumeria to 21st century Pasadena reveals they are EXACTLY the same and have never changed.
Or at least that’s what I said when I yelled at my father in law for not giving me the dozen sheep on my wedding day…
betcha maggie clutched her pearls at the very idea of being called a bigot while muttering various insulting words under her breath at those who would dare do so.
Not all of them are into that whole flower power, peace, and love thing. The Azande, who live in southern Sudan, were traditionally pretty imperialistic and more recently figured prominently in rebellion in that region.
I’m sure Maggie just wants to go back to that officially sanctioned vision of marriage that allowed Solomon his seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.
hehehehehehe
nice one peterr
I don’t think “lying motherfuckers” is too florid for these people.
think I’ll just settle for a simple – ‘oh, blow me Maggie’.
I sure that would be her goal. Certainly would make the Mormons (male division) happy.
Okay, so someone explain to me in small words exactly how it is that allowing teh gays to register their unions is going to make me abandon my children?
Her argument doesn’t even make it to incoherent. Unless she’s meaning to say that the opportunity to marry another man is soooo irresistable that straight males will leave hearth and home for it?
I don’t get it. Can anyone explain it?
The good old days.
-G
Probably true. There is a significant overlap between the bigot and hypocrite demographics in the U.S.
wonder if maggie’s maiden name was mcgill
Hey Suz.
I thought the same thing. Matt Groening once said that he likes to tell people who ask if his Akbar & Jeff “Life in Hell” characters are gay, “whatever offends you the most.”
If Gallagher pearl-clutches at being called a bigot, she’s gonna need a lotta pearls, because she’s a bigot.
Imperialist Battle Hippies. The very worst kind…
There ain’t enough pearls in the ocean . . .
Maggie – just another name to add to the list of people who I hope to see forcibly dragged before teevee cameras on the night of November 4, and forced to ‘eat it.’
A *very* partial list:
Pat Buchanadana
Ron Christie
Joe Watkins
Joe Lieberman
Nancy Pfotenwhatsit (MIA lately, I’m thinking she has developed a severe allergy to being adorned with huge amounts of gold and satin)
ED ROGERS
Doug Holtz-EakinI’ve decided he should be kept around for heart-felt thank-yous and the undoubted delivery of more side-splitting funny stuff.All too true. Of course if you were married to Maggie Gallagher, gay marriage might suddenly become irresistibly attractive. Personally, I am feeling a bit rejected over this whole thing. I do not think they are giving us hetero serial monogamists nearly enough credit for our efforts to destroy the institution of marriage.
I often think the problem is this:
most conservative men are either closeted gays or have homoerotic tendencies. So they figure that if we were to return to a state of nature, soon there would be no heterosexual marriage, because all the men would be off getting hot man-on-man action.
Makes as much sense as anything else. Lord knows, I don’t spend one hundredth of the time thinking about gay sex that the professionals on the right do. Makes you wonder why they’d want to spend all that time doing, ummm, research.
I’d love to see Former Representative Mitch McConnell added to that list.
I know, it’s weird. Like I said, if you stop to think about it, which is more than she did, that’s actually pretty offensive to… straights.
And on top of that, I haven’t noticed the current marriage regime doing all that much to prevent married straights from abandoning or even screwing up their kids.
It’s a weird argument.
Make that Former Senator Mitch McConnell.
Preview is my friend . . .
Don’t forget Bloody Billy KKKristol!
its not the marriage – its the sex license that marriage gives.
i see the anti-gay marriage stuff as the first step to trying to turn back the clock and make gay sex illegal.
Hell, I don’t think about it as much as they do and I have to teach section on human sexuality in my classes.
I do not think they are giving us hetero serial monogamists nearly enough credit for our efforts to destroy the institution of marriage.
hey I did my part. *g*
well, i’m a really really really old-fashioned conservative. I say think of the poor starving lions out there that need to be fed some Christianistas. Dang new-fangled religion.
That kind of gives a new meaning to “may I see your license and registration, please?”
John McCain. I’m hoping to see a painful concession speech from him, and anticipating that he’d be less than gracious about it.
Yeah, it’s an odd dynamic. Professional right-wing-religious nut Randall Terry’s son came out a few years ago, and said that he used to get off all the time after sneaking into his dad’s “study” and beating off to the gay porn he kept there for “research purposes.”
Terry also used to make money by taking in foster kids. It was a way of getting around all the judgments against him for trying to put abortion clinics out of business. He ended up with like 15 kids, or something like that. Then he dumped his wife for another woman & had to move to Florida because his church — which is actually near us — ostracized him. A hell of a guy, Terry.
This isn’t strictly about proposition 8, it’s about my attitude towards marriage.
Marriage is neither necessary nor sufficient for procreation.
Marriage is neither necessary nor sufficient for parenthood.
Marriage is neither necessary nor sufficient for parents to love and protect their children.
Marriage is neither necessary nor sufficient for children to love and respect their parents.
My approval is likely neither necessary nor sufficient for your happiness.
Why should I have a say in whether or who you can marry?
And really, if you’re a male het, shouldn’t you be for more gays? Male gays outnumber female gays by about 5:1 or so according to most stats I’ve seen. So the more gays there are, the better your odds just got. the more rights they have, the better, since that should make less of them repress
OTOH, that might explain Maggie. More male gays = worse odds that anyone would look at her twice?
“Here, let me just whip that out…”
I’m hoping to see a painful concession speech from him, and anticipating that he’d be less than gracious about it.
oooh – that’s why gawd created TiVo….
SNL up for East Coasters.
How can the odds get any lower than 0?
Two marriages here, but I got it right the second time around.
Wasn’t it Ben Johnson who said that second marriages are proof of the triumph of hope over realism?
Suz, do these people think that gay sex was invented in the 60s or something?
Although I see she’s married. Maybe she’s scared that the hubby would prefer hot man action?
I am waiting for the YouTube, which you know will be up about 30 seconds after he gives it and will go viral within 5 minutes.
it’s all dr spock’s fault
Yeah.
Its also about them, well, making money. It’s not like Gallagher has, you know, a job…
So how do you explain my third (disastrous) marriag?
pretty funny first skit with Tina Fey and Gramps.
Wouldn’t you? Or anyone?
Well, that’s not usually my preference, but if the choice was hot man action or Maggie, I might have to convert.
Nah, it’s Margaret Mead’s. Her research on cross cultural childrearing inspired Spock and the others.
Why should I have a say in whether or who you can marry?
I would appreciate it if you’d remind me to not marry another bartender….
Watch for the “fine gold jewelry” . . .
Oscar Wilde, I believe, a second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
Mrs. BC and I were discussing the Mormon’s enormous effort to get Prop 8 passed. Does anyone have any idea why the LDS is sooo vehemently anti-gay?
I speculated that maybe Joe Smith, President, Revelator and Prophet and notoriously horny guy might have some bisexual skeletons in his closet. Anybody know?
Me, too. First time for everything they say.
Don’t marry another bartender.
OMFG,
I just can’t believe what I saw on SNL. Off to see Ben Affleck…
that would require book=learning to know dr dick – and they all know about that communist doc and how its all his fault with that stupd book
Dunno. My first was disastrous, for lots of reasons too tedious to go into.
Maybe it’s odd numbered marriages that are disasters?
Texas tied w/Tech…extra point may do it.
Does sort of fit the pattern for me….
Don’t marry another bartender.
thank you.
I may have that tattooed on my ring finger….
Done…Tx ahead.
Mr Spock was a communist? OMG, I didn’t know that…
Yes me too! but first I gotta figure out how to convince my sweetie that if it is OK for Solomon it must be OK for me!!
If I even tried I would be having a Lorena Bobbitt moment executed upon me!!
Think I better stick to just one… I like the Family jewels just the way they are… beside you just know they would all be menstruating at the same time…just think about that one for just one moment…one is by far enough!
Must have been. He believed in developing the human potential of everyone, not just the rich.
We aim to please.
And on that note . . . G’nite, all.
Wait – weren’t you trying to stay IN the good graces of your Sweetie?
1000 women? Jeebus, that sounds like an absolute wreck on every level imaginable.
Night, Peterr.
I am trying not to even think about it.
G’night Peter.
don’t forget to set your clock back tonight pups
g’nite peterr
Thank you, Thers! I hereby grant you one extra hour of sleep, or cuddling with Mrs Thers.
Oh but I am… I do have looking privileges though but touching is a whole nother matter!!
i wish someone woulda smacked me along side the head and said “Don’t marry him, he’s a REPUBLICAN!” Being married to one kinda put me off the idea of marriage.
Texas down 39-33
Go Lead Laiders
Not a sports fan, but as a native Okie it always does my heart good to see Texas losing.
Texas Tech intercepted a UT lateral to end the game.
Goal posts coming down…
Mrs BC is an OU alum, she was cheering big time.
Me, too (graduate school). Ph.D. ‘87.
Hee hee. If I were on that left coast I’d be knocking on doors.
Apart from, like, the moral and legal and humane reasons 8 needs to be killed, is that it would be the final stake through the wingnut heart on Tues.
It’s too bad some of you are so sensitive on the issue of “spoilers.” I’m sure I could think of any number of witty comments to make about what is on SNL right now…
She’s BA ‘80.
We’ve got a divided household — I’m Kansas State MA ‘80, PhD ‘87.
Just because you’re chained to the fence doesn’t mean you can’t bark.
Oooooo. That would be lovely, now wouldn’t it? I can hear the wails and gnashings of teeth now.
SNL skit on Olbermann?
crash and burn.
I shoulda watched the end of the Texas game….
That was a helluva game, but the ‘Canes over VA was even more exciting. (Whistles in nonchalant fashion)
Mrs. BC just reminded me of the one compliment that the Pride of Oklahoma had for the Slow Band of the Southwest: It takes balls to wear orange rick-rack and fringe. It’s a shame Bevo doesn’t have any…
Reading the menu is okay, placing an order is not…
Doing a skit on someone as snarky as KO is really tricky. I’m not surprised it crashed and burned…
Good evening Thers. Howdy firepups.
Bet Shirley and James Dobson are unhappy they flew down to San Diego for The (very sparsely attended) Call today: only about seven thousand at Qualcomm Stadium, which holds 71,000. Nothing like ten percent of capacity to make an event look sad.
Dr D said on his program this week he would have to tell his son they couldn’t babysit as planned; his son and daughter-in-law would need to make other child-minding plans if they wanted to keep their plans to go away without the kid this weekend. It was just so important for Shirley and the Doc to fly to San Diego to save traditional marriage. James said he “felt the hand of the lord on his back, pushing him to go.”
Breaking commitments to Your Own Damn Family in order to Focus on mine: the central hypocrisy modern American talibangelicalism.
(Just another rich, self-centered grandfather looking for an excuse not to get stuck with the grandkids all weekend.)
We laughed our asses off at SNL Olbermann skit. jayt? what don’t I get?
Lordy.
Parents with young children DO need some time away from the kids. Helps remind them that they’re the couple, the kids are temporary.
But I suppose if goD’s pushing you to an empty stadium, well … listen to that burning trash can or whatever. Or maybe it would be better have your pshrink up your dose of antipsychotics…
But I to to do it softly so she doesn’t hear me! But actually I do point out some of the cuter ones to her… she isn’t worried about me after all this time, she knows I am not going anywhere I know when I have it good!
and now for something totally OT -
McGrumpy is gonna make an Indianapolis stop Monday afternoon. At the airport’s international arrivals ramp. iow, he’s gonna land the plane, get off, have a “rally”, turn right back around and jump back on the plane to get the hell outta here.
yeah, johnny, that oughta do it.
the bigot they come, the harder they fall
different strokes, I guess. *g*
Ha! And Obama was for some reason a bad guy for taking a break from fighting to become president to take his kid to a Halloween party.
I’m more and more convinced that in part these people are going nuts because they’re terrified of, like, having to get a real job. What if, like, there was no hate? How would Dobson & Gallagher get paid?
I do not like these people.
yeah, my marriage crashed and burned because some gays in another country got married. and some gays in our very own state actually selected a china pattern and bought a living room set.
who the hell would go to that?
My first thought is “people with mullets.”
As a native New Mexican (not currently a resident) it does my heart good to see photos of SKI TEXAS bumper stickers.
People getting off the plane from Europe or wherever who haven’t got a choice?
Hi folks. Where’s RevDeb? Has anyone seen her lately?
To jayt and ndfg:
I don’t know any Republican bartenders, but I’ve been told that even they deserve someone to have and to hold, in sickness and health, for richer and poorer, till divorce do they part.
who the hell would go to that?
My money says he draws *dozens* of people.
on second thought, no bet.
Look! SNL!
I remember seeing her sometime in the last couple of days.
Repiglicans are not suited to be successful bartenders. A good bartender is both conscientious about her craft and able to listen sensitively to the customers at the bar … as nearly as I can tell neither trait is common among Repiglican exemplars.
Thanks. I am a worrier!
A Repigulian??? you fucking joking aren’t you?? If you don’t have exactly the same opinion as them your words are just noise to them… Don’t you know they are always correct and besides they know more than US!!
OK, losing awake-ness. Loves ya.
Night, Thers. Think I will exit as well. Take care all.
She said her husband had some heart operation. A something (don’t remember the #) bypass. Something awful and she was having some health issues too.
:(
She’s not happy about politics either, these days.
She’s not alone on that one.
night Thers!! Sleep well and dream about an Obama presidency!
nite thers, Doc.
sleep well thers!
Would I be violating the “rule” against “spoilers” if I disclosed that John Sidney McCain III’s brilliant, indeed epic, performance on SNL totally sealed the deal for him winning the presidency on Tuesday?
Or would I be lying?
Night, thers…
g’nite thers
Good evening everyone. Other than the past divorces, how’s everyone doing?
g’nite dr dick
Evening demi… Are you getting wet??
hi demi. just fine, you?
Other than the past divorces, how’s everyone doing?
you say that like it’s a bad thing….
Great here, demi.
Yes. The wet part I don’t mind, but it has kicked up the soot smell something awful. Had to keep all the windows closed and I lit some scented candles.
I saw her on a thread in Oxdown yesterday.
Oh, pretty okay. My bestest friend’s husband died last night. He was 94 and she’s 92 and every breath she’s taken for 70 years was all about him, so I’m worried.
Otoh…Cassie did a fine job on her diary here. Told her so.
dugg
Good night firepups. See ya tomorrow. Remember to change your clocks unless they change themselves.
pain free sleep wishes tex
Sorry for your and her loss!
Yes, Cassie did a great job.
Hmmmm. They are only bad while you’re going through them, in my experience. Looking back, I must have been nuts to hook up in the first place. Except for the kids.
I hope you sleep well tonight.
I did forget about the fire part and how awful the smell can be when it gets wet!! But on the bright side all this rain should end the fire season for the season! We have gotten lots and lots of rain… several inches I am sure, it comes in waves and has been doing so since last evening!! I know my Orange and lemon trees are happy!!
I always wonder about your handle.
So, you’re cheap?
I’m a FreebieAlto myself. tee hee.
Yay for happy trees.
Boo for the fire smell. And I’m worried for all the critters up on the hills. One of the gals in the neighborhood is having a meeting so we can plan something.
is there a landslide risk from the fire zone when it rains demi?
somebody please help my tired brain. is tonight the night we get to sleep an extra hour in the morning, or is it the night when we have to get up an hour earlier in the morning?
Thanks, Thers. Well said.
I’ve written Maggie several times over the years, mostly along the lines of, “try to be more Catholic.” I tried to send her your lovely rebuttal but was denied. She doesn’t list her e-mail on Yahoo anymore, I had to go to Clownhall, and it every regular PW I tried didn’t work.
What a surprise.
She’s a dinosaur, and sooner or later her kind will die.
Love your work,
John O
Mud slides? I know they can happen once all the growth is burned off and nothing is holding the soil together! Up here when we get too much rain we have whole sides of hills just up and start moving… 84 between here and the coast has slides a lot during the rainy season and suddenly the road closes… same with Devils slide and if both 84 and Devils slide are closed that leaves only one way out of Half Moon bay and the coast, makes for awful traffic there!
I think so. Just more good news. I talked to the guy at the nursery and he said they should plant rye grass on the hills, but we have to wait until the windy – read hugely blustery – season is over.
Tonight!!
I suspect your friends hinted at something along those lines, but you were too besotted to notice.
Fall back. Spring forward.
You get an extra hour to worry about Tuesday.
Don’t Worry Be Happy!!
cartoon upstairs
Well…
It’s an indication of several things. Music’s very important to me, and I’ve been a fan of Peter Schikele and his P.D.Q. Bach schtick for a very long time. When I was singing (it’s usually easier to find a choir to sing in than a wind ensemble or orchestra) I varied between the baritone and second tenor voices. My last voice teacher said that I’m a lyric baritone, whatever that might mean. I’d rather have a trombone in my hands than sing, anyway.
So, BargainCountertenor is stolen from P.D.Q.’s vocal scoring. I first encountered it on P.D.Q.’s Half-Act Opera, The Stoned Guest. The vocal parts call for one Mezzanine Soprano, one Off-Coloratura, one Basso-Blotto, one Bargain Countertenor. Oh yeah, and a HundenTenor.
I’ve run into a few other P.D.Q. fans here who’ve recognized the lift.
Proposition 8 is strictly a legal issue and is not directed at undermining individuals freedom of choice. The gist of the debate is whether the legal meaning of the “marriage” contract should include anything other than the traditional “one man – one woman” arrangement. As noted, that is the historic basis for the family unit because it aligns so nicely with biology! Parthenogenesis is for aphids.
From a strictly legal standpoint, recognition of same-sex marriages would open the door for a whole variety of other combinations that would clamor for equal status. A prime example is polygamy/polyandry. Right behind would be things like people marrying animals, or wanting the state to recognize marriages between animals. Once a legal term has been opened to allow something other than its traditional meaning, it’s hard to put the genie back in the lamp.
I am something close to 100% certain the founders of this nation did not contemplate the constitution being amended for things such as this. That’s why the amendment process is burdensome, to assure that only those changes truly deserving adoption could make it. The difficult question is, given our beliefs in the moral agency of man, what is the proper role of government in such matters.
Bigot. The issue is equal rights.
Straight couples who do not wish to have children can marry. So much for “biology.”
As soon as polygamy is legal for straights, it should become legal for gays. So much for polygamy.
As soon as animals can give consent to a marriage, they should be allowed to do so. So much for bestiality.
There is no federal amendment required to permit gay marriage. One is apparently necessary to FORBID gay marriage. So much for the “founders.”
Indeed, you are about as stupid as you are bigoted if you think it is the NO side on 8 that is asking for the amendment.
You are an absolute idiot. And a bigot. Sucks to be you.