All of the weeks of petty, inaccurate crapola from McCain, the smear merchantry behind the whispers and e-mails, the attempts to convince the doubters among us that "Obama is foreign" to give cover for racial prejudice as a means of urging folks to vote the worst in themselves?
"Suggesting Obama is foreign or unknown offers a cover for racism," she said. "You can’t say he is black and unfit to be president, but you can say that he is Muslim and therefore unfit to be president."
Contrary to what the smears have pushed about Obama, it is those self-same tactics which have been so unforgivably unAmerican. Which call out to the worst of what is in us, and deliberately stoke the prejudices and hatred in our society to further divide the nation. Why? Because the GOP cannot win on its tired, failed ideas in another round of retread politics.
Instead of coming up with better solutions to long-standing problems? They preferred to fling poo.
Divisive and bitterly damaging — perhaps McCain has nothing else. His well has been dry for a long, long time. As has the Republican party, which has been running on the fumes of fear and smear for far too long.
Take a little time to watch the full Obama ad from last night (YouTube above), and then watch this from McCain (YouTube below).
You tell me: which one looks like a leader? And which one just looks like a petty, bitter, small man resorting to "terrah terrah boogah ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!" tactics that ask you not to think for yourself but only fear and smear.
Related posts:
- Liveblogging the Obama Health Care Presser: Cost Control Up Front; Politics Pushed Aside?
- Jobless Rate Hits 26-Year High: Does Obama Have an Economic Team? Where’s Their Jobs Program?
- Status Quo? Hell No! When Leadership Means Partisanship
- It Takes The Village To Raze the Economy: Some Notes On Krugman and the Return of Keynes
- A Movement to Make Obama Bring an End to War
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Remember to bring your video recorder to the polls when you vote! Also, keep an eye on the Congressional races for electronic vote flipping designed to prevent a filibuster-proof Democratic majority.
Good morning Christy.. Cold morning here in Mass.
I wonder how much last nights video affect the poll numbers today??
Doesn’t that McCain ad just have Kristol and the Kagans written all over it? Ugh.
mccain lies to us with the politics of fear.
obama lies to us with the politics of hope.
we’ve had eight years of the politics of fear, i’m ready for a change. just wish it was more of a change because i’m heartily sick of the lies.
wazzzup
The WaPo, amazingly, has been doing a great series on economic difficulties among regular folks that I highly recommend perusing.
POliticians lie sometimes — I think it’s part of their job descriptions. Even the best ones either lie to the public or lie to themselves about aspects of things which make them look bad to justify their actions and votes. The trick is to call them on it, push them past it, and force them to own up to the worst of it where you can.
It’s an ongoing thing, but it is certainly not anything new. I mean, hell, look at Alexander Hamilton… *G*
Good Morning Christy and Firedogs,
personally, I’m holding out for the Obama Will Eat Your Children ! ad in 5 …4….3….2…
I am shocked to learn this. Shocked! I tell you.
McCain’s well ran dry a long time ago.
Double entendre.
everyone lies sometimes – but it’s not part of their job descriptions unless we let it be. and obama lies not just sometimes, but a lot. and about things we’ve thought were of central importance. i’m not going to laud an emotionally manipulative commercial that is filled with lies and deception.
i doubt we have any disagreement on the frequency of mccain’s lies or that we think about that. what i don’t get is why we are giving obama a pass on his.
I’d like to recommend this op-ed by Susan Straight from yesterday’s LA Times.
I was going to mock the folks at The Corner this morning who are in full-out high dudgeon at the moment. But it was just too sad and such an easily target-rich environment, that I opted for mocking McCain’s creepy Kagan-esque ad instead. If for no other reason than the federal courts and keeping foreign policy out of the hands of neocons, I hope to hell Obama wins.
There are lots of other reasons I don’t want McCain anywhere near the helm, but those two are at the tippy top of my list. Okay, and Sarah Palin…she frightens me with her faux folksy mean girl schtick.
Instead of coming up with better solutions to long-standing problems? They preferred to fling poo.
Their solutions suck.
Good morning, Christy. Great post. I’m still giggling at the word for McCain from Attaturk’s post: fusty. It fits so well!
The booga booga Iran ad is just entirely over the top.
Too dang cold here, this morning.
What I don’t get is why you constantly only want to see the negative and not the positive, too? There are lies on all sides which have been called out (FISA, anyone?!?)– but when something is done well, why not compliment it? Does it have to be all cranky, alla time? Because I refuse to live my life that way…
They preferred to fling poo.
It’s past 9:00. You can say “shit.”
HOPE
Morning all,
It is 7:30 here
I meant to link up the “If you have any poo, fling it now” video somewhere in there. But I forgot…not nearly enough coffee…
Yes, they do suck. If I hear “trickle down economics” one more time I’m going to barf on the shoe of the person who utters it in my presence. Ugh.
Morning, Christy – political campaigns in this country have degenerated into “I don’t really have anything superior to offer, but I want you to vote against the other guy”.
I really don’t have to watch either ad to figure out for whom to vote. Anybody that has been paying attention has been able to figure who has the clearer path to respectability for the next administration. There are many people planning to vote for mccain who are willfully ignorant of what is going on. It is easier to accept the word of the rethugs than actually think for themselves.
Easy there, Christy. I got moderated the other day for basically saying the same. Double standard?
christy – you don’t know me well enough to know if i’m cranky all of the time or if i only see the negative…. and you have certainly, personally, known me to compliment not just you but others here.
so – why the personal attack when all i’ve done is disagree with you? what gives? if you don’t think obama lied a lot in last night’s commercial, why not say you think i’m wrong, tell me why and demand i give evidence of my claim?
i’ve got to run a quick errand before today’s hearing, but i’ll check back here later.
I am listening to Stephanie Miller who always makes me laugh. She said that McCain spent his time on Larry King grumbling about money. What the HELL is he grumbling about? Like HE doesn’t have enough? He thinks someone is “middle class” when they make $260,000 (over Obama’s tax threshold, which would result in about $500.00 more that would contribute towards the roads and bridges they will use to operate their business). Uhhhhh, McCain …do your math. Would that most REAL middle class made that much! And forget the poor, who cannot make it at all in the McJobs that are taking over their communities and sending the good paying jobs overseas.
Sheesh …
Cat In Seattle
i loved that Obie said last nite,IM NOT PERFECT!
What the hell?!? Why is everyone so fricking touchy this morning? I clearly need more coffee…
we all our on edge,but knocking Obie now just sux
Five more days, five more days. We’ll all be happy once it’s over [I hope].
I don’t have a problem with the criticism. Truly. What does chap my ass is people telling me what I should be writing when it’s tough enough to write anything on top of caring for an elderly FIL and a 5 year old and keep up with the election news and be on a bazillion conference calls and try and keep up with other news and…
You try and write a cheery yet thoughtful post now and then to lift the mood and give folks something to think about, and the thread pulls an Eeyore out of it? Then it’s a bit of a downer. And I’m left here with my coffee thinking “WTF?!?” Because what I thought I was saying above was that McCain’s tactics have backfired and they ought to have, because they’ve been smarmy. Not covering every last aspect of every last issue on the planet, just that one nugget which I thought was important to emphasize given the smarmitude of the boogah boogah ad from McCain above…because it ticked me off.
And I thought that was clear, but perhaps not. Maybe I just need to crawl back into bed and give up for the day. SIGH
McCain is a warshed up old character assassin who deserves the back row when he returns to the senate.
-G
Which one looks like an intelligent, professional leader might be a more specific question.
My distinct feeling is that Obama does.
Maybe one of the problems is that for 8 years we’ve had a leader who has appeared as snarky, non-curious, folksy and mean.
Perhaps this is why some people can’t answer your question.
I need more coffee myself, so maybe my comment doesn’t make sense.
your aces with me.and give us much hope,and hope is what we need now,things are quite dismal…so keep doing what your doin,your tops RED
I really enjoy your cheery, thoughtful posts. Your posts are ones that I try not to miss specifically because they are.
I try to be an upbeat person, but I do not always succeed and there are some days when I have to avoid some of the more negative, snarky threads here.
Kind of a time and place issue in terms of what’s appreciated as a comment.
I for one do appreciate your work and look forward to your posts. I am also very antsy about this election. There might be some decent rethugs out there and many have publicly repudiated McShame and the sleaze wing of the rethug party. The never ending barage of garbage does get hard to stomach.
Are there any ratings numbers out yet for Obama’s broadcast?
yep. mornin’ gal.
now being regularly expressed on the campaign trail. it is the one thing I dared to dream about 09
ya gotta have HEART!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related
as of 10 pm CST, Shuster was citing 46 million as a preliminary number :D
Gack — speaking of the Kagans…
While the Nation watched the Obama commercial….. Arizonans suffered with Robo calls during the broadcast….. what a class act.
and now for something totally different (and non-cranky):
The Indianapolis
FishwrapStar actually published the results of a poll this morning which shows Obama to be (very) slightly ahead.The poll, by Selzer & Co. of Des Moines, Iowa, showed Obama backed by 45.9 percent of those polled, and McCain by 45.3 percent. Given the poll’s margin of error of plus or minus 4 percentage points, the race is a toss-up.
Both Obama and Biden are going to be making one more stop here – Obama in the north, Biden in the south. And the Star even gave the date, time, and location of the Obama event! (which they normally keep as a closely guarded secret because… well just because).
http://www.indystar.com/apps/p…../810300379
Clearly the Star was temporarily taken over by a few “bad” apples, and heads will undoubtedly roll, but – hey, I don’t hate them this morning!
The Obama campaign is the most kickass campaign ever. Again and again I am taken by how many notches above the Clinton’s/Gore’s/Kerry’s that Obama operates, and with such professional ease.
Have we switched to standard time already – I must have missed it.
Hell, McCain might as well just dump Obama in the middle of the Blair Witch Project….that thing gave me the creeps.
As I live and breathe … “it’s part of their job description” … we should not give the Political Class such an easy pass.
Christy, I understand the humor and the irony of your disgust, but the tragic results AND especially, the human cost of the ’success’ of such lies is far too sobering for that to become an accepted perception, however true it might well be. For the cynicism of the Political Class to become enshrined in the broader despair as, essentially, par for the course, will only serve the ‘conviction’, which is quite well brodacast already, that no meaningful change is possible …
Leaving us then, with only the categorization of how ‘bad’ or ‘destructive’ the ‘manipulation’ shall be.
Bringing us to selise’s comparison of the lies of McCain compared to the ‘lies’ of Obama.
Henceforth perhaps, when comparing the weevils, the lesser and the greater, the ‘un-veracity’ of their ‘virtues’ must be (as it already, in large measure, is) the basic ‘test’.
Such however would entail the public bestirring themselves to learn how to determine false argument in all of its many guises.
And though that would be a ‘good’ thing, we both know it to be very unlikely indeed.
Major ‘progress’ shall have been made if we simply get to the point where elections are not the equivalent of high school popularity ‘contests’, where the determining ‘factor’ is NOT whom one should like to spear cocktail weenies with.
;~D
OK THIS IS even cuter…big happy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnWyZgKO3qs
Switchover is this weekend, i think…
‘Politics of persuasion’ necessarily involves bending reality. Apart from vastly preferring Obama’s positive grand illusion over McCain’s fear and smear one, Obama strikes me as being more honest.
A question about ‘lying’ and politics of persuasion: is lying more likely to be believed when the lying is driven by warm and fuzzy or fear ?
I think warm and fuzzy lying stands a much greater risk of being laughed off the stage. Warm and fuzzy arguably demands greater substance to be convincing.
Oh. Don’t listen to me, then.
Clearly you missed the subiminal iron tag on the “part of the job description” comment. I really am giving up at this point and sticking to giving you all news links as I find them…jeebus.
you got that right!! Does anyone know of a good place in Washington DC to watch the election night activities?
Good Morning Christy and Pups.
Indeed. Thank you for this post.
I think a big key to Obama’s strength is that HE is a positive person, but strong and able as they come.
I see more and more a generous helping of John Kennedy’s style in Obama.
He’s just raring to go, ready to tackle the most daunting problems I’ve seen in my whole life. His commitment to making a difference is infectious.
I choose to accept the spirit of cooperation he has offered, and look for ways to help. It’s impossible to please everyone. But this is no time to sit on our hands in a total frump. We don’t have the luxury of time to waste.
I don’t mind constructive criticism, but what good could possibly result from turning the reins completely over to one’s inner cynic. We could nitpick for little inconsistencies and harp endlessly on them, but where would that get us – pretty much treading water in the same spot forever.
First ensure vote. Then we work harder still, but with hope for the future, for a change.
McCain’s biggest failing may be his seeming total lack of commitment to his own plans, if indeed he has any. Maybe that’s why the only things his whole campaign seems able to do is sneer and gripe. That strategy isn’t going to work this time around. i betcha. I’ve seen the carrion flies circling.
I’m heading for the gathering worker bees. It’s wayyy more fun to make honey. *g*
i know the feeling. not today for me, though. I guzzled two cups eaerly and will get some more soon.
I like that number. I think Christy’s point that such a positive message will be very persuasive after all the McCain bile means we could move a lot of undecideds if that many saw the broadcast. I just hope all the undecideds watched and it wasn’t just those of us already on board.
Everybody around me is tre touchy these days, ready for this to be over.
I’m going to a wedding this weekend on an offshore NC island where vehicles are not allowed. I’m sorely hoping it will be a politics free zone. Hope to recharge my batteries while there….ready to work again on Monday & Tuesday.
MY thirty minute phone call yesterday with the Dole headquarters staffer (about the “Godless” ad)just inervated me.
Good Morning! I’m not touchy today but I do have a problem. I keep watching Obama’s infomercial. Do they have medicine for that?
That’s The Fighting Kagan’s please. Some respect for the great warrior class.
-G
Tough crowd. maybe they’re getting worried. obama should be ahead by 50 points, ya know?
Interesting look at disparities in increased costs for women in health care policy purchases
2am on Nov 2 is the time change ….. my birthday….
Need thoughts today…. going in at 9am to have a CT guided biopsy of my lungs. It seems they found nodules. Will keep you posted on the outcome.
Nothing to eat or drink and I really need a cup of coffee :)
I thought it was a very good film. Of course, I am part of the damn Amen Choir.
Do you think it moved undecideds? I doubt it. They are a strange crew. But, it probably firmed up the leaners.
A peek back at history: The Atlantic re-runs a column from the Lincoln (as in Abraham Lincoln) election endorsement, and it’s a fantastic read.
BEST OF LUCK,will be praying to Earth mother for you all day
Huge thoughts and prayers headed your way, hon. Do let us know soon as you get news. And a gentle hug for the road…
I actually was well pleased last night. I particularly liked Bill Clinton’s summary of why Obama should be elected. He pretty much described why I want Obama. I also liked Obama’s explanation that we neither have to have rampant cut throat capitalism or Stalinist five year plans. I thought an understanding of a mixed economy should be common knowledge, but apparently is not. I also thought the 30 minute add was fine to inform/remind anyone necessary that Obama is not a space alien.
In my view, the choice right now is critical for the future of the country. It is between two political parties and two politicians. Neither is perfect, but the one’s vision of the society they would seek is far superior to the other’s.
Pablum for 22 percenters. Kagan is running out of evidence to support his neocon delusions. That internationional cooperation has improved has nothing to do with the bulls in the china shop.
Declinism ? jeebus Bob, did you get that ACME Meme Generator at a Fairfax yard sale ?!?!?
You’ll surely be in my thoughts and prayers.
need something to fight about
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/3…..tm?cnn=yes
Hee hee. No, but our elderly VCR did, yestidie. Just simply declared it so. I guess I’ll blame that on Palin, just because.
Changeover to Standard time should be Sunday, Nov. 2, I believe. VCR’s injured feelings notwithstanding.
is that what you think i was doing?
i thought i was disagreeing with your characterization of obama’s commercial.
would it help i include a disclaimer? i’m not trying to be snarky – i’m serious. i can’t seem to disagree without pissing you off (at least that’s what i think happened). is there a way i could disagree that would be ok? i would seriously appreciate some pointers because the message i’m getting (knowing that i could be completely wrong) is that my disagreement is not welcome.
(((katymine)))
Best of luck today.
Christy,
My ‘criticism’ was wrapped in a smile, and NOT meant to disparage.
But those whose words are powerful, as are yours, and reach the ears of many, as do yours, sometimes are misunderstood or mis-apprehended, even when meant in the best of ways,
We are all tired and quite grumpy these days, ‘twould seem, but I assure you, honestly, none such was consciously direct toward you.
Just a thought, as to the ‘turn’ of phrase.
;~D
((((katymine)))
Frankly, I want a list of those lies, Selise. Because compared to the sleaze and slime the Republicans and John McCain/Sara Palin have thrown, I just don’t see the overall importance. And I’ve been following FactCheck.org, and they haven’t called Obama’s campaign out on very many.
List? Links? Sources?
I will accept that many of Obama’s campaign promises may not come to fruition for a lot of reasons. I will not accept that they are “lies.”
I think it was aimed at settling some of the “he doesn’t seem like us”-ness that the McCain campaign has been stoking among undecideds, especially folks in my area of the country in Appalachia. It wasn’t meant to be heavy on substance for that reason, I don’t think — which was why it was so effectively crafted as an answer. It was meant to make folks feel comfortable with Obama — and, on that level anyway, it succeeds.
The contrast with McCain’s “fear and smear” response ad couldn’t be more stark, could it? It’s like a “Tale of Two Candidates” summed up neatly in two YouTubes in terms of messaging and style.
Hanging around a bit at the beginning of the hearings to see how it goes. But do need to get out soon.
((((katymine))))
Sending white light to you katy. (whoosh)
Also sending white light to all the people who don’t see the enormous differences between the two tickets in this election.
Have to run my FIL to dialysis…be back shortly, gang…
the liberation of America will commence in
82 days, 2 hours, and approx. 50 min
…oh and it will be televised :D
My best to you, Kay. We share birthdays. I hope yours comes with good news from the procedure.
Heh. Brady (R-TX) sounds half D. Does he have a challenger in the election?
{{{Christy}}}}your a ONER
(((((katymine)))))
Let us be clear.
So far as I am concerned, genetally:
Mc$ame’s lies will kill.
At worst, Obama’s ‘lies’ will disappoint.
Well, maybe not so much. Saved the R commercial for the end.
‘generally’
Christy,
I just want to add one more voice to say thank you very much for the hard work you do and the wonderful way you express how so many of us feel. I was pleased by your reply to selise and felt it was fair. I never would have imagined it could be seen as a personal attack – just a difference of opinion. Your are certainly entitled to your opinion as much as selise is to hers.
Take care of yourself.
Did anyone watching the 30 minutes last night have the impression, as I did, that the few seconds of Obama with his father (paraphrasing: I met him once for a month when I was 10) was a subtle way to show the distance from the baggage attributed to his father (Kenya, Muslim, madrassa, etc.)? In other words, if my impression is accurate, he was subtly showing how little influence his father had on his life. And then reinforced, over and over, the influence of his mother and grandparents.
we partially disagree – i think both of their lies will kill. which is why i take obama’s lies very seriously.
how many people did clinton’s lies kill? probably almost as many as bush 43’s.
that doesn’t mean i wouldn’t have wanted clinton to be president for 16 years if we could have avoided bush – i would make that trade in a heartbeat. but that doesn’t mean i give clinton a pass on his lies (except about sex, i don’t give a shit about that – it’s a personal matter as far as i’m concerned).
Ditto:
And alittle lower down, the trickle down thing was actually repudiated by Reagan’s Stockman. It should be a thoroughly dead duck, yet it is the “not redistribution” that McLiar keeps pushing. He must think that none of us have a memory.
Some feedback on the presentation from The Guardian. Please note the polling results on the right-hand column.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl…..arackobama
OK now I am really pissed. We must have National Health Carewe must, we must, we must. There is no other issue that is as important.
That is why I said ‘generally’ (well, on my second ‘try’).
Selise, overall would you not agree that Obama’s lies shall, probably, kill fewer?
We are counting devils dancing on a gnat’s eye, of course …
I got the distinct feeling that one major focus of criticism directed at Obama early on was that he was too wordy, almost appearing to get lost, or lose his audience, in details.
As the campaign wore on, he has honed his message so that he does not slip into professorial drone mode. His ideas and plans are stated clearly and succinctly. So now people like McCaint try to slap him for having no details in his head, just punchy phrases. Yeah, and I’m Grandma Moses.
If you look closely, Obama shows no worries about where the details will be ironed out. He’s already offering the olive branch across the aisle. Too bad about that, Sen.for the day McConnell. Just sit in your stratolounger and watch how it’s done…
If any of you naysayers really want to help after the election, I suggest you start hunting for a good pair of track shoes. This fella’s brilliant, dedicated, down to earth, and will land running and ready to engage.
Agreed.
McCain’s political career is over on November 4th. He’s ending it a broken, dishonored man. The only thing he’ll have left to look forward to is inviting his buddies over from the corporate media for barbecues and tire swinging. McCain’s defeat is the exclamation point to America’s repudiation of failed Republican policies.
And, selise, should you have had any doubts, I agree completely with you as regards Bill’s sexual escapades ….
‘Tweren’t nobody’s business ‘ceptin’ them what had legitimate
‘interests’ …
Yes, we are all demoralized to the core by the incessant lying and illegality of the bush/cheney administration. But, please try to keep things in perspective. I am truly heartened to see that the majority of the country is sick and tired of what has happened to us over the last 7 1/2 years. It looks like Obama will win the election. That is very, very good. If not, the democracy/republic, the rights & freedoms that you have grown up with and believe are your due will go away. The United States of America will not last with Dick Cheney still holding one rein of power.
Not to sound like my tin-foil hat is on too tight, but Dick Cheney (and his hapless cohort Little Georgie) is even more dangerous now as his grip on power looks to be coming to an end. I can dream up too many plausible scenarios that The Big Dick could implement. We’re already publicly conducting raids across the borders into Syria and Iran. Don’t forget about those nukes that flew across the country and no one realized it until much later. Don’t forget about the 1st Brigade Combat Team that was newly deployed on October 1, that is “under the the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks.”, don’t forget the anthrax mailers haven’t been caught, don’t forget the ‘temporary’ detention camps built in the desert, don’t forget the overwhelming greed of Blackwater… and the paranoic list goes on, and on, and on…
Then of course there are those pesky electronic voting machines. Ask Max Cleland how Saxby Chambliss managed that upset. Ask Chuck Hagel about his stake in voting machine vendors to Nebraska. Ask Ken Blackwell about who really received the most votes from real people who actually voted in Ohio in 2004. Ask the Texas and West Virginia early voters about their touch-screen machines that flipped their votes from Obama to McCain.
It’s not just the machines. Don’t forget about the GOP’s disgusting efforts to disenfranchise voters under the guise of “voter fraud”. It’s happening in Ohio, Indiana, Minnesota, New Mexico, Florida, and many other states.
Selise, you’re upset about “lies” which are inaccuracies of minor facts, versus the horrendous poo slinging of McCain and the enormity of the LIES of Little Georgie & The Big Dick.
I’m scared witless about what could happen between now and noon on January 20, 2009.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep your eye on the ball. The danger is still very much with us. Constant vigilence!
Now to what I really want to say…
Can we PLEASE begin impeachment proceedings against Little Georgie & The Big Dick on November 5? They are too dangerous to allow to remain in power a single day more than is necessary. For which particular High Crime & Misdemeanor should be used, let’s start with officially sanctioning the use of torture and go from there. There are many more to choose from.
ITMFA
not sure. think probably. hope so at least. but more importantly to me is that obama, i hope, will appoint some semi-sane people in the administration. maybe not in the economic or foreign policy areas, but in other ones. i expect them to be republican in their outlook – but i expect semi-sane ones, which would be a big improvement.
my fear is that obama will so tarnish the D brand that if the economy is not something he handles well, we will be looking at a right wing populist backlash in 2012. and like most things the deaths aren’t easy to assign to one person or one party because so many (Ds and Rs) have a hand in them. just as biden has a hand in all the iraqis we’ve killed.
lies about fisa? lies about iraq? lies about iran? the lies i’ve heard from obama and biden are not minor to me.
I’m with you, Adie-girl.
In the same way that when someone yells at me, I only hear the yelling and miss the message in the words, when I’m hearing something too wordy, I get distracted by their need to be so long winded.
Goes for comments too, sometimes.
There are days when my emotional immune system doesn’t have the fortitude for the requisite patience to have an affectively communicative round and round.
Hey Christie, thanks for all you do!! (((hugs)))
I’ve decided to take Obama at face value with this point: This Election is about US! He made the opening for US to say this, and have we ever said it! YES!
IT’S ABOUT US!
My primary concern about Obama is that he have the courage to have the imagination to boldly venture into uncharted territory, tempered with reasonable pragmatism, but mindful of the NEED to see further and more broadly than ANY American politician has heretofore been required to ’see’, even including Lincoln and FDR.
For the stakes are very much higher than ever before, mostly because, inspite of ourselves, we know more of the true nature of our collective plight, as a species, than ever before.
The further truth is that we, all of us, must help Obama with this opportunity of real, genuine change.
We can expect no less of Obama than of ourselves.
Yes!!!
Oh my… sorry for the rant and rave.
I watched Obama’s infomercial and I was very impressed. I had just watched Frontline’s show on the two candidates. Putting those two shows together I came away even more impressed with Senator Obama. He’s smart. He’s politically canny. He cares about people. He cares about policy. He’s shrewd. And I would never ever want to get in a fight with him — he’s tough. I think he will be a tremendous boon to our nation and to the world.
There are several of his actions that I seriously disagreed with. Telecom immunity being the biggest. However, I begrudgingly acknowledge the necessity of his actions on that bill. That said, I still believe in his integrity, his competence, his experience, his intelligence, his political acument, his eloquence (it will be nice not to cringe with embarassment and anger whenever I hear the President speak, and I believe in his ability to LEAD (to reinforce Christy’s thesis on this post), to lead our country out of the darkness that Bush/Cheney has brought us to.
Yes We Can
I have no problem with that.
He and his say he is of sound mind and body, in charge.
I’ll take them at their word.
He ran a relentlessly negative, dishonest, race-baiting, divisive, mean-spirited campaign deliberately intent on dividing this nation along class lines.
He is responsible. He said so himself. He has to live under that cloud the rest of his life, no matter how much of the glitz, his/her money, and cushy luxury he has at his beck and call.
I am very much with you selise. I believe he has been pandering to his corporate bosses.
I loved listening to some of the wrap up last night. The pundits were really in awe of the Obama production, even those who do not agree with him. They had to find some picky things to say, but even the naysayers said it was a masterful, very professional performance. A sort of recognition that could not be denied. What a threshold.
The joke could well be upon us, nomolous.
But no one worth a damn will be laughing.
Whatever happens, popular sanguinity has been let out of the bag, and with the pain the next few years shall be spreading lavishly around, few, if any, shall be willing to follow mindless demogoguery …
Our halcyon days (daze?) are past, a far more grim reality beckons …
Surely, Obama is wise enough to understand what that means?
Dearest selise,
I am abjectedly sorry to have to say that the choice between what Obama and Biden have said and done about FISA and the alternative being their FISA votes turning into the clubs that pound them into insignificant, swift-boated, Kerry-like woulda coulda shoulda losers instead of winning the election in a landslide, doesn’t make what they said and done any better. Their choice, as you say their lies, was necessary. Voting against the FISA abmomination could have been enough to paint Obama as a terrorist loving muslim traitor. (Oh wait… McCain has been trying to do that without those votes..) Voting against the FISA abmomination could have been enough to make all that poo stick. It could have been enough for the braindead MSM to run that meme until Senator Obama couldn’t get elected dog catcher.
You’re tired of the lies.
Good.
We’re all tired of the lies. Politics is a continuous process of compromise. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and move on. Sometimes you get what you want. Sometimes you get an addle-brained would be dictator who has a Rasputin for Vice-President and almost destroys your country. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and close your eyes to move on.
Save your anger. Hold on tight to your anger. After Obama is elected, and after he is sworn in as President, then start expressing your anger. Then we will have someone in the White House whom we can force to listen. Then your anger will mean something.
Ah Ha! We must be sisters! *g*
The most effective comeback I have ever tried is simply to let an overheated, threatening blowhard have his/her say, pause slightly, and then carry on calmly, as if they missed by a mile. Drives them nuts.
It’s an art needing considerable practice. You can’t smirk. You can’t mock or incite, or it won’t work, and could be dangerous.
If you’ve run out of words, pull my favorite toy out of your pocket and use with abandon, “I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.” Seriously, you may have to repeat it. Many bozos are not pre-programmed to listen, only to shout… stuff.
That should leave the worst of them spluttering helplessly as you leave, calmly, of course. Their consternation and helplessness is their punishment, and your reward, just as long as you do not smirk. ymmv
…there were never such devoted sisters….
My problem, well one of them anyway, is that I’m an Aries. I’ve over emotional and my face always gets me into trouble in either a heated or potentially volatile discussion. I roll my eyes. I smirk. Gets me in trouble all the time. Ha.
And another thing, if we look at the bigger picture, things in context, I think everyone deserves a Hall Pass once in a while. Everyone.
i agree that it was very well done. extremely so.
We can only hope that there will be sufficient progressives elected to force obama to ignore his corporate financers and “do the right thing” by listening to the people. Maybe he will get rid of all of the cheney/bush illegal spying, maybe he will open the books to the last eight years of corruption, maybe he will devise a way to penalize those telecoms that acted illegally, maybe, maybe maybe. To me he has yet to show any inclination to defy his corporate bosses….. witness his health care plan which is nothing but a sop to the insurance companies that have given heavily to his campaign.
i understand that those lies are not important to you – i did not say they were. but they are important to me – very important. and seriously, i believe you mean well, but i am heartily sick of advice from people here on what to think, do or feel. so please don’t tell me what to do with my anger – especially when you do not share it. i wish i knew how to make that last sentence less harsh and yet still clear, but i don’t.
politics, as life, requires compromise. but it does not require that we all think the same – especially about a 30 minute commercial.
We need more emotional people in this world, people who feel life as it goes by their noses.
if I ever had to take a lie-detector test, I’d fail every time. I get red-faced if I just think someone thinks I’m lying. groan.
I’m a Libra, like Martha Stewart, born same year, even, gack!?! You should see our house, egad! I detest her pseudo hoity toity attytood toward people. I don’t believe in astrology much. It fits when it does, and that’s what we notice, while dismissing the rest. But that’s just me.
yeah. time-outs are good. Is that the same as a hall pass?
lurking is an art form. it’s hard. frustrating sometimes. we tend to hug our kitties shamelessly around here, and each other, whenever we can convince the cats to move over a bit, sigh.
hey, i think the thunder stopped upthread… good on them all…
i don’t think it’s going to come from other politicians – i think it must come from us. and i see no stomach for that.
Folks, despite all the evidence to the contrary from Barack Obama’s campaign, like Will Rogers, I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
We’re all on pins and needles right now. This is the most important election of my voting lifetime, the most important since 1972. Don’t let’s be at one another, please. Take a deep breath, vote and urge all your friends to vote. Commiserate with your R friends about how horrible things look for McCain now and how futile it would be to spend two hours in line to vote for a capital L loser.
What amazed me about the McInsane commercial is how it shows what they think about our reasoning abilities. If Ahmedinajad and Iran have preconditions to talk to us, we’ll that’s their deal. Obama never said he’d beg them to come discuss the issues in a reasonable manner, he said he is ready to talk. McInsane apparently believes we can’t even do grade school logic.
You’re right on the FISA bill and no one thinks that politics is pretty. I did read an article about Obama reaching out to legal scholars to see what they thought. It made me feel more comfortable because he did not take his vote lightly. I wish I had saved the article because I would share it with you.
whoa! you’ve proposed some really good ideas up thread. don’t you go give up on us. okay? we’re all family here.
we’ve all been thru an awful, awful time, and it’s not going to change overnight. but the level of hope for change might, with some tweaking and strong nudging in positive directions.
if we all marched in lockstep, we’d look like dittoheads, eh?
same general direction, committed, determined, working together. sounds good.
Yep, a lot of giving up emotion and energy to a worshipped leader, sitting back and letting him do it instead of realizing that, unless we the people keep pushing the result will be just more of the same old corporate bullshit. Sort of like the religious opiate.
Regarding astrology, I just see it as as one of many aspects that may or may not affect us, depending.
Fortunately for me, I’m married to a quiet, thoughtful man who usually balances my fiery tendencies.
I made a conscious choice a long time ago to hold onto my strong emotions. When I’m sad, it really hurts. When I’m angry, boyo, watch out. And, when I’m happy, when I see or hear beauty, wow…the sky’s the limit.
I agree with you whole heartedly in the benefit of lurking. Believe it or not, there are many times I’m here and never say a mumbling word.
I’m off to attend to my to do list for today.
Much love to Everyone here.
thanks adie. i hope i never give up..
offering a carrot once in awhile keeps them busy chewing, and they start listening, hopefully don’t fight so hard against his getting into office.
THEN. he has power. he surrounds himself with quality people, replacing the hacks currently warming those chairs. and so on, and so on.
and he can afford to act on all the things he’s been learning about, and listening to all along.
i can dream, can’t i? who’s gonna say it simply cannot happen?
I am afraid that I am way to far down the cynyscism road to u turn to wishing and hoping
Nope “too far”
You won’t. You can’t. Me neither.
I get really depressed also. But I’ve found I get much MORE depressed if I’m not involved in the effort.
I think I owe my sanity to the Lake and all its wonderful pups.
There are wonderful, gifted, generous people here to lean on any time you wish.
I think we all owe a huge debt of gratitude to Jane, Christy, and so many many more, it’s impossible to name them all. Where else can we engage in a good sharp, sometimes contentious discussion without devolving into what the repubbles call [hmmm. beats me. what DO they call what they do? heh]
I hope that is not true.
I wish you would leave the door open a crack, so that something sneak in and show you something new.
Never say never. You just never know.
adie – you dream on. and thanks for understanding that others (like me or nomolos) won’t necessarily join in.
No
pet “too far”.There. Fixed if for ya.
I am NOT a pollyanna mushy character. I seriously doubt you have been much lower than I, on many an occasion.
If you have given up hope, why are you here?
Jane has offered up an opportunity on a silver platter, to enable us to try to make a difference. You think she’s naive? Nah. Didn’t think so.
Please stay tuned.
I’m amazed by the incredible amount of public interest in Sarah Palin. Good or bad, she’s become somewhat of a pop icon. People are dressing like her to be and/or mock her all at the same time.
For instance, I found this video on dressing like Palin:
http://www.mindbites.com/lesso…..arah-palin
Oh, I’d say there is considerable ‘appetite’, here at the lake, for example, for doing precisely that … unless we’re all forced onto a diet of gruel, and even in that case there is ample evidence (;~D) that more than a few here in attendance are capable of, “May we have more, sir …?”
The ‘education’ and ‘betterment’ of the Political Class may come from only one source.
As you, selise, very well know.
‘Tis up to ‘them’ whether we give ‘them’ heaven or hell.
‘They’ just don’t really belive that we mean it. Yet.
I’m not dreaming my life away. Just pinched myself to check.
No I don’t think most politicians are self-starters. The system itself almost requires that they respond to pressure.
So, let’s apply plenty of pressure, couched in ideas and desperate needs, sweat and blood.
I have a hunch Obama is more inclined to listen than most, and will endeavor to place competent people in the cabinet. I hope so. I do believe he is strong, and willing to wade in and tackle hard problems. If so, he has a lot more background than most people give him credit for.
So, it’s worth respectfully, deliberately applying pressure for change.
Something has to change or we are all doomed. Like, perhaps, the polar bears unable to cope with rapid global warming, dying off even while the environmental groups incongruously scoop up new patrons by offering up plush polar bear toys as incentive, rather than using ALL their accumulated donations in some other way.
Maybe it’s too late to control global warming, and the importance of FISA, odious as it is, will be dwarfed in comparison. Do you have any idea of the magnitude of the problems that one problem will cause? Some scientists seriously think the only hope for the rest of the world’s creatures would be if man went extinct.
Is that depressing enough for you?
I won’t go sit in a corner in the meantime, at least not for long.
You won’t either.
You may call me naive. I won’t give up. Is that being too optimistic?
no no no NO NO!!!!!
Adie, you are tenacious and I adore you for that.
No storm can shake my inmost calm,
While to that rock I’m clinging
Since love is lord of heaven and earth
How can I keep from singing.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
THAT’S DEMEANING AND TOTALLY UNFAIR!
swords or pistols?!
i was a stubborn kid.
now i’m a stubborn old hag.
i’ve made more than my share of politicians sweat in past years.
i still know how.
sometimes they make it necessary.
Um, … wet noodles at 600 paces, in the middle of the night, in rowboats, when the lake is frozen. And we have to be aiming away from each other.
How ya doin’ Adie?
cranky and fed up, just like everyone else.
and you?
say, would u like those noodles with parmesan or asiago?
goodgawd, that sounds like a congressional “deeebait”.
A 3 1/2 hour thread with lots of back and forth and not one mod edit needed.
Hmmmm, maybe there is something to celebrate in this.
We’s in the same boat, Adie.
Let’s just go fishin’.
Speaking of dee-bait.
You and I are prolly ’bout the same vintage.
Do you remember that old saying about a dog jumping over a fence?
“Defeat went over defence before detail.”
Thank you for saying it…”negaholic” is what comes to mind.
aw-rightie now.
we’s got a big problem wit de details here.
you only allow for front feet, or long long long tail with extensions like sarah’s?
i’m confoozed and depressed, and feel i can neverr trust you ever agin.
are u 1)lying to me, or just 2)unfitz for awfice?!
ah HAH!
that makes me a “nagoholic”.
where u been, and where’s my crown?
Well, I asked ya if’n ya ‘membered that old ’saw’.
And yer gonna hit on THE one de-tail which always bothered me … an’ I asked my elders ’bout it, “Hey! What if da dawg had a cropped tail?” Never got no satisfactrey answer, so I always assumed musta been some inscrutible wisdom what done been lost on me, sumhows …
Them dawg-gone de-tails is ALWAYS da problum, da devil, if ya will, in the oinkmint.
I reckon as how we’d all best keep our powder dry, ‘cuz none of us know when our noses might becum too shiny … and, in my case, the resulting bedazzlement could cause untold suffering …
Nobody noses the trubbles eye seen.
Question:
Is you gonna be dancing in the street on November fifth?
Well I is.
Then, I’m a lookin’ at rollin’ up muh sleeves (have ta tuck nuh heart outta the way first, ya know) and gittin’ down to them proverbial ‘brass tacks’ helpin’ Obama jus’ ’bout any way I can.
I be hazardin’ a guess that you got the same game-plan in mind.
I think there’s also an aikido at play in politics — the martial art of helping your opponent go faster in the direction they were already heading, not resisting, so that they lose control and run into the wall or floor.
And you are left standing, and can steer events in a different direction.
i think your dreaming is a good thing – we all need to have dreams. i’m so sorry if my comment conveyed anything different than that. your dreams are good for you but may not be good for me – that is all.
if what i saw was a wall (or more floor) i would agree – but i see a cliff and i see us going over the edge.
Purrzackly thus! ;->
P. E. A. C. E.
The ‘floor’ just be a lot further
d
o
w
n
I got called out on the same thing a couple of weeks ago…
Selise. You’re a very special part of this wonderful community.
You have worked so hard, and produced so much that helped every other person here. We can never thank you enough. Your timelines and schedules and heads-up, and voting records, wealth of ideas for discussion, your clear vision of ethical balance …
I hope you will take some pleasure from a successful election and Obama taking office smoothly in January.
The pressure on him from all sides will begin long before he takes the oath. I don’t dream so much. It’s more like keeping panic at bay. And the nightmares are frequent here for me, as I suspect they are for you.
I hope that Obama can summon the strength and courage to steer a progressive course, first reversing ASAP the worst of the grievous wrongs of the last several administrations.
My more realistic side knows this is impossible. How do you undo the damage from the warring and pilaging, the numbskull neocon loading of SOTUS, the irreversible environmental damage to this one bruised and abused earth on which we all depend for survival? Present policy and practice, quite simply, is NOT sustainable, not even close. Humankind is galloping toward calamity at a flat-out race, and yet no one in power seems to care enough to plan, if indeed it’s not already too late.
The torture policy MUST be reversed immediately. The wholesale disregard of human rights is appalling, and surely some parts of that mess (e.g., restoring the Constitution to its former place in the scheme of things) can be reversed quickly.
What to do about the myriad of other horrible problems that loom? We hope to muddle through, I guess.
My kinder side would like Bush and Cheney, plus a number of their close aides, hauled up in chains for war crimes, jailed, and the keys tossed. They are guilty of unspeakable greed, cruelty and disregard for all living things.
I know Obama can’t fix all these problems. Some of the most egregious are probably truly hopeless. But I’m willing to do my small part to help repair what we can.
I hope these don’t sound like meaningless placebos. I just don’t know what more to say. Election of McCain would spell disaster. I can think that far ahead, and keep going…
When we recognize someone as a leader, we often place our faith in that person to a degree that exceeds what is humanly possible. In other words, we expect them to be beyond fault and to not make mistakes. This, of course, is neither realistic nor fair. Just like us, these people are living human lives, and part of the deal is learning through experience and working out our individual karmas. There will always be missteps and things they would do differently given a second chance. If we are to be fair, we must grant our leaders the same forgiveness, compassion, and understanding that we grant our closest friends as they navigate the complex challenges of this human life.
Leaders are special people in that they have the ability to guide and represent large groups of people. In this calling, they agree, to some degree, to be responsible for the well-being of others. Because of this, we hold them up to a higher standard of behavior, and in some ways this is fair. However, we will only be disappointed and disillusioned time and time again if we expect them to be perfect. If they were perfect, they would not be here on earth. Perhaps the most we can expect of our leaders is that they make it a practice to acknowledge their shortcomings and learn from their experiences. Beyond this, when our leaders let us down, it is up to us to forgive and move on. Dwelling on disappointment and negativity creates more of the same.
People who choose to lead are often extraordinary individuals blessed with vision, energy, and charisma. It is their path to inspire, guide, and represent us, but it is not possible for them to never let us down. Leaders are on a path of growth just as we are. Perhaps this is something to remember when we have the opportunity to choose somebody in a leadership role, or perhaps you are ready to step into a role of leadership yourself.
Believe McCain’s lies then, you would never have voted for Barack anyway, so it is no big deal.
Believe the fear, the rest of us have HOPE!!
-uh- pardon, but i think u need a major re-adjustment of the sights on that weapon, dagonlady.
I am still waiting for the list of Obama’s lies with links and sources (and yeah, I know about FISA). Apparently I’m not going to get it. That’s pretty much what I figured…
Meanwhile I have a pretty comprehensive list of McCain’s and Palin’s lies.
you’ve said that you don’t care about obama’s lies – that they aren’t important to you. that’s a matter of opinion, not fact. so i conclude you already know about his lies and don’t need me to list them. if on the other hand, you want to claim that i am wrong, that obama does not lie (other than the fisa lies), i will be happy to produce counter evidence.
thanks adie – i hope it’s obvious that i don’t believe mccain’s lies. yes, i do have hope – just not much when it comes to politicians. but i will be ever so happy if you have reason to remind me every day about how wrong i was about obama. and if i’m wrong, i do hope you will remind me every day because that would give me something to smile about.
Oh Hon. Your strategy sounds spot-on to me. Elections are messy bidness, especially now with computer light-speed PLUS old-timer nastiness combined.
Trust but verify still works fairly well for us. McPall, yeah, dump with the trash. Pure & simple. He’s got the backup he needs for his fragile ego (good lord, was it 13 houses, 4 adoring kids & a wife who will apparently put up with… more than I would. i have no idea where the apallin partner is headed.
Obama. He’s our shot at improving things this time around. He won’t get a free ride. He knows that, I’m sure. I would never call you wrong. All these candidates have to shave details of substance or risk boring everyone to death while campaigning.
Have you ever looked deep into Michelle’s face? at those kids? and the interactions among them and dad? It’s instructive. There are things that cannot be scripted.
To me, those “little” things, on through his superb and totally relevant education credentials, positions on issues and plans for the future, even including the annoying vagueness about certain areas of planning. Translated from what I’ve heard, read, and seen of him, he’s worth my vote, and some considerable hope. You bet. That doesn’t mean we must sit quietly, hands folded politely, if he achieves that high office.
Campaigning skill does not equal leadership qualities. Just as years in office do not necessarily equate to ability and desire to work for the good of all.
My husband is not an extrovert. I just found today an e-mail of his to our sons, admitting that he and I both choked up during Obama’s “infomercial” last night. Yes. Guilty. We are both scientists by training, with an emphasis on behavior but with firm scientific basis. That kind of reaction to someone seeking high office is rare in our house.
This fella Obama may just be the real deal. Let’s at least give him a chance.
But good heavens, in this day and age of the toobz, if you perceive questions to ask, pressure to apply, have at it. Tell ‘em adie sent you (best muttered to yourself. They won’t have the foggiest idea who or what that means, but stifle the grin and go forth). This is, after all,still a democracy by title, as of Jan. 20 2009. I hope. But it needs some work.
selise. I recommend you read Iokywoky at #159 just above.
Surely makes sense to me. Helps put things into perspective.