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	<title>Comments on: McCain: Redistribution Not Okay When Rich Not Getting the Money</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: acquarius74</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704598</link>
		<dc:creator>acquarius74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704598</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ian, I posted a quote from an article on this money mess.  It appeared but has now disappeared.  Here is the link.  Please give us your opinion.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/fed-rate-cut-a-dud-fed-rescues-go-wild-27837&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.moneyandmarkets.com.....wild-27837&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;scout&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, I posted a quote from an article on this money mess.  It appeared but has now disappeared.  Here is the link.  Please give us your opinion.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/fed-rate-cut-a-dud-fed-rescues-go-wild-27837" rel="nofollow">http://www.moneyandmarkets.com&#8230;..wild-27837</a></p>
<p>scout</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704459</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 01:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704459</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, Ian, there is no ‘there’, there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just ‘crutches’ and ‘props’ …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Quite evident yesterday, and ‘they’glibly assumed today would continue the ‘trend’…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Ian, there is no ‘there’, there.</p>
<p>Just ‘crutches’ and ‘props’ …</p>
<p>Quite evident yesterday, and ‘they’glibly assumed today would continue the ‘trend’…</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Welsh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704404</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704404</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They are shoving money into the US as fast as they can.  There is a huge fight from the periphery to the center, and it is propping up the US stock market.  But that means very little for the real economy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are shoving money into the US as fast as they can.  There is a huge fight from the periphery to the center, and it is propping up the US stock market.  But that means very little for the real economy.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704400</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704400</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;trillions were found within weeks for Wall Street but programs like universal healthcare have been left to languish for decades. We can debate who owns our government but it is pretty clear that we don’t.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also remember, it was Sec. of Def. Rumsfeld who announced on 9/10/01 that the DoD had lost track of several TRILLION dollars.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Could’ve bought some nice healthcare with that money.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>trillions were found within weeks for Wall Street but programs like universal healthcare have been left to languish for decades. We can debate who owns our government but it is pretty clear that we don’t.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Also remember, it was Sec. of Def. Rumsfeld who announced on 9/10/01 that the DoD had lost track of several TRILLION dollars.</p>
<p>Could’ve bought some nice healthcare with that money.</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704381</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704381</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not until the Constitution actually is operational again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Besides, Mark, that is simply too reasonable and JUST, for this “right of center” nation, doncha know?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But yes, its about time for such an audacious ‘change’.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not until the Constitution actually is operational again.</p>
<p>Besides, Mark, that is simply too reasonable and JUST, for this “right of center” nation, doncha know?</p>
<p>But yes, its about time for such an audacious ‘change’.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704354</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704354</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Aren’t stock dividends also taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I really think that one of the egregious problems in our tax code is the preferential treatment that capital gets over labor.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Couldn’t someone challenge that as unconstitutional, as not equal treatment under the law?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>Aren’t stock dividends also taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income?</p>
<p>I really think that one of the egregious problems in our tax code is the preferential treatment that capital gets over labor.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Couldn’t someone challenge that as unconstitutional, as not equal treatment under the law?</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704237</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704237</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Nice, ekunin.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let us begin.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Are you listening, Barack?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice, ekunin.</p>
<p>Let us begin.</p>
<p>Are you listening, Barack?</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704226</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704226</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;First we might examine which historical example(s) mlght best serve as ‘guidance’, and  modify such example(s) (if we ‘discover’ any we should consider applicable) to suit our circumstance.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Then we must consider that, realistically, ’tis ALWAYS a small ‘core’ group, who, trusting each other enough to work together, develop the essential principles of what the end result should ‘look’ like.&lt;br /&gt;
(FDL might be considered to be ‘preparing’ the ‘foundation’ for such an accomplished ‘group’, for example.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When these steps have been taken … well, then, all involved pledge,  their lives, their sacred honor, and their wealth, such as it might be, to each other and the ‘battle’ is ‘joined’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As we are committed to non-violent struggle, we shall have to understand that ‘they’ are not …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is no way to move forward unless people are willing to put their ‘comfort’, their lives, AND their bodies on the line.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are certain commenters here (and I ‘imagine’ you understand whom, selise), who have, quite clearly articulated how things must ‘begin’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The issue, beyond thinking clearly, rationally, and bearing in mind that there shall be a ‘cost’, has to do with what all of us have come to term “backbone”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I realize I’ve suggested nothing ‘new’, selise, but deeper discussion might needs await the ‘run-ups’ to what appears, to me, an inevitable (and crucially necessary) Constitutional Convention, where the ‘discussion’ would be engaged in earnest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are where we are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The next steps, all of them, require courage and resolve.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First we might examine which historical example(s) mlght best serve as ‘guidance’, and  modify such example(s) (if we ‘discover’ any we should consider applicable) to suit our circumstance.</p>
<p>Then we must consider that, realistically, ’tis ALWAYS a small ‘core’ group, who, trusting each other enough to work together, develop the essential principles of what the end result should ‘look’ like.<br />
(FDL might be considered to be ‘preparing’ the ‘foundation’ for such an accomplished ‘group’, for example.)</p>
<p>When these steps have been taken … well, then, all involved pledge,  their lives, their sacred honor, and their wealth, such as it might be, to each other and the ‘battle’ is ‘joined’.</p>
<p>As we are committed to non-violent struggle, we shall have to understand that ‘they’ are not …</p>
<p>There is no way to move forward unless people are willing to put their ‘comfort’, their lives, AND their bodies on the line.</p>
<p>There are certain commenters here (and I ‘imagine’ you understand whom, selise), who have, quite clearly articulated how things must ‘begin’.</p>
<p>The issue, beyond thinking clearly, rationally, and bearing in mind that there shall be a ‘cost’, has to do with what all of us have come to term “backbone”.</p>
<p>I realize I’ve suggested nothing ‘new’, selise, but deeper discussion might needs await the ‘run-ups’ to what appears, to me, an inevitable (and crucially necessary) Constitutional Convention, where the ‘discussion’ would be engaged in earnest.</p>
<p>We are where we are.</p>
<p>The next steps, all of them, require courage and resolve.</p>
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		<title>By: egregious</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704153</link>
		<dc:creator>egregious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704153</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/obamercial-liveblogging/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eli liveblogs the speech&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/obamercial-liveblogging/" rel="nofollow">Eli liveblogs the speech</a></p>
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		<title>By: ekunin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704145</link>
		<dc:creator>ekunin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/29/mccain-redistribution-not-okay-when-rich-not-getting-the-money/#comment-1704145</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Dems may be the party of tax and spend, but the Repubs are the party of borrow and spend and they borrow more than the Dems spend. Be that as it may, it follows that the middle and lower classes spend more on stuff. If you want to keep demand going, society’s capital must be spread as widely as possible. When wealth gets concentrated, the rich purchase a variety of mansions and expensive clothes, but their spending does not come close to keeping things going.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for taxes generally, it depends on how you feel about government. If you feel government is wrong and should be drowned in a bathtub, then taxes are a waste. If you see public services other than defense as necessary, than taxes are the price of living in a civil society. Taxes are not an investment for which the individual receives in public services the amount he pays in taxes. People without children pay for schooling other people’s children just as people who are fortunate enough not to suffer a fire pay to support a fire department. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for getting out of the box we are in, not only must we increase taxes on the wealthy, we might try to restructure our debt. Go to our largest creditors like China, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc and ask that principal and interest payments be postponed say five years while we develop efficient salt water desalinization, cold fusion, improved batteries etc. In five years we repay them in kind instead of cash. This provides money for going in new directions without printing it and it provides jobs for Americans both in new scientific endeavors and for repairing infrastructure.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dems may be the party of tax and spend, but the Repubs are the party of borrow and spend and they borrow more than the Dems spend. Be that as it may, it follows that the middle and lower classes spend more on stuff. If you want to keep demand going, society’s capital must be spread as widely as possible. When wealth gets concentrated, the rich purchase a variety of mansions and expensive clothes, but their spending does not come close to keeping things going.</p>
<p>As for taxes generally, it depends on how you feel about government. If you feel government is wrong and should be drowned in a bathtub, then taxes are a waste. If you see public services other than defense as necessary, than taxes are the price of living in a civil society. Taxes are not an investment for which the individual receives in public services the amount he pays in taxes. People without children pay for schooling other people’s children just as people who are fortunate enough not to suffer a fire pay to support a fire department. </p>
<p>As for getting out of the box we are in, not only must we increase taxes on the wealthy, we might try to restructure our debt. Go to our largest creditors like China, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc and ask that principal and interest payments be postponed say five years while we develop efficient salt water desalinization, cold fusion, improved batteries etc. In five years we repay them in kind instead of cash. This provides money for going in new directions without printing it and it provides jobs for Americans both in new scientific endeavors and for repairing infrastructure.</p>
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