Ok, enough with the BS about Obama and "redistributing wealth." I certainly hope that Obama intends to redistribute wealth downwards rather than the upwards that as in the bailout, but I want everyone to look at the graph on the right. That’s what Reaganite policies did, they redistributed wealth—to the top 1% of the population. George Bush’s tax cuts and Ronald Reagan’s tax cuts were about redistributing wealth from the middle and working classes to the rich. And the bailout was a huge tax on ordinary people to bail out the richest people in the United States. It’s about time someone stopped redistributing wealth from the middle class to the wealthy and reversed the flow.
Here’s how to tell when someone is lying about taxes: if they want to only talk about income tax, then they’re right wing shills for the rich and liars. The income tax system is the only progressive tax of any significance in America. Almost every other tax in existence is regressive—they hit you harder the less money you earn. Every payroll tax, for example, is regressive. Every straight fee is regressive. And even in the income tax system there is more regressiveness than people realize, for example capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than earned income—that’s right money somebody earned by buying a stock is taxed at a lower rate than what a janitor earned cleaning up a toilet, or a garbageman earned picking up trash, or a nurse earned for cleaning the vomit off your mother in the hospital.
To Those Whom Much Is Given, Much is Expected The US has the worst income mobility in the world. If you’re rich, you probably started off in a family with a lot of advantages. If you’re poor, you probably started off in a family without those advantages. Sure, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions.
It didn’t always used to be that way, in fact 30 years ago the US had the highest social mobility in the developed world. But something changed, and what changed was right wing policies—it became hideously expensive to send your kid to university, schools in poor areas deteriorated, wages stagnated for the middle class while soaring for the rich and taxes on the rich were dropped significantly and huge loopholes were opened up, including reducing the rate on unearned income.
Some time back Warren Buffet noted that whatever the nominal tax rate for people in his bracket is, he actually paid less in percentage terms than his secretary. The "Chamber of Commerce", reliably stupid, tried to argue otherwise and Buffett put an end to it by challenging anyone to show him tax returns that proved otherwise . No one stepped forward. Game, set, match, Buffett.
Yes, rich people pay more money into the budget than poor people, what do you expect. But they also get the most out of the system, as the bailout has just egregiously confirmed. And the historical evidence is clear, a country with plenty of rich people and a weak middle class is a banana republic. Strong states, prosperous states, always have a strong middle class and lots of social mobility, because states that don’t aren’t promoting the best people, aren’t letting them contribute. Given the stunning incompetence of US elites, who can’t even win wars against people who have a fraction of the US’s resources; who managed the financial system into a multi trillion dollar collapse after letting the dot-com bubble happen and the Savings and Loan bubble while paying themselves tens of millions of dollars a year, it’s pretty clear what the consequences of having entitled twits freeze everyone else out; what the consequences are of crushing the middle class under the rich’s boots are.
The US had a class war. The rich won. The bailout, the bill for which is actually close to 5 trillion dollars, just confirms that. Now they are desperate that no one undo their victory. Now they want the middle class to be destroyed to pay for a bailout caused by their own greed, criminality and stupidity.
Regular Americans aren’t buying what McCain’s selling.
Me, I think it’s time for a new class war. Time to take back America. Time to go back to an America with high marginal tax rates with the highest social mobility and lowest income inequality in the world. Because only a fool could argue that CEOs who destroyed their economy and need 5 trillion in bailouts deserved their humungous salaries. Only a delusional fool could think that when Wall Street is spending 70 billion on bonuses this year after almost destroying the entire world’s economy, that some people don’t need a smack upside the head and some common sense drilled into them.
So, time to end wealth redistribution upwards, and time to start redistributing it to all Americans, not just the few greedy fools who have mismanaged the country’s economy for so long.



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Aloha, Ian!
Thanks Ian!
digg
Amen.
Quick drive-by. Been at the hospital with my boy. He is 23 and has Guillain-Barre Syndrome. Send good thoughts. He is in a very low place right now.
That productivity/wage chart is a real smack in the head.
Link for Guillain-Barre Syndrome.
Aren’t stock dividends also taxed at a lower rate than ordinary income?
I really think that one of the egregious problems in our tax code is the preferential treatment that capital gets over labor.
Oilfieldguy, warm and best wishes to you and yours, dude.
That sucks, OFG. Tell him to hang in there, and work hard on rehab.
(((Oilfieldguy))) (((son))) sending you both warm healing energy.
Oh my OFG
(((OFG the younger)))
If it’s any help a friend of mine had that and recovered just fine. Hang in there and hang on.
bingo
in point of fact, reagan didn’t “lower taxes”, he was responsible for the largest tax increase in peacetime presidencys
by the way;
when money is stolen from me, getting it back isn’t “stealing”
when my assets were “redistributed” from me to them, me getting those assets is NOT “redistributing wealth”, it’s taking property that is NOT theirs and giving it back to those it belongs
(((OFG)))
sending warm, positive healing thoughts to you and your son
Exactly.
It’s called restitution.
FunnyD
Healing thoughts,wishes and paryers to OFG & son
I miss edit
Hey, Wobs
Have you checked out Tower of Power? I thought of another really on-topic TOP tune: Takin’ it to the Streets.
hugs to both of you OFG – hoping for a quick and complete recovery. please let us know how it goes with you both.
OFG, You and your son have my prayers…!
Best wishes for your son, OFG.
Suz, my wife apologizes for the tagg… She didn’t realize that it sent out invites to everyone on our address list…! 8~)
OFG,
Positive thoughts from me and mine.
The 2006 figure for the income share of the top 1% is even higher than 2005 according to Emmanuel Saez’ preliminary figures. If 2005 is 21.8%, it looks like 2006 is about 22.3%.
The only other progressive tax besides the (graduated) income tax is the estate tax, aka “death” tax, and there has been a concerted effort to protect the Paris Hilton’s of the world from having to do without a small share of the money that never belonged to them and they never earned. Capital always accumulates unequally, and the estate tax doesn’t even take away money from any Joe the Millionaire Plumber who may have beaten impossible odds or been lucky enough to get enough of an estate to be even hit with the estate tax. The aristocracy always hates taxes that may cause them to compete in life. Warren Buffett never complained about taxes because he never doubted he could make more money. A trust fund family, different story.
edit “doesn’t take away Joe the Millionaire Plumber’s money while he is alive to enjoy it”
(((Oilfieldguy)))
Great post and wonderful documentation, Ian. This really socks it to Reaganomics, huh?
OFG: Best to you and your son.
best wishes, OFG et fils
Sending good thoughts for both of you. ((OFG and son)))
And it goes without saying, the income share for the top 1% started to rise when Reagan got in, went down sharply during Clinton, and came back gangbusters with Shrub. But it was the blowjob that the VRWC was upset about, and the lying! Yeah, sure!
A harsh reminder for us all of what’s really important in life.
My your son make a full and speedy recovery.
AmericaBlog:
I think that one could look at Carly Fiorini, who thought that CEO’s are some higher level of lifeform and the car maker CEOs who were to busy flying around in their private planes and helios to grasp where things were going are the same as the incompetents in the banking industry. Time for a clean sweep not a bailout.
Oilfieldguy – all the best energy and thoughts directed to you and your son!
Warren Buffett said publicly that he intends to leave his children enough that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing. That strikes me as the right formula.
If you strike it incredibly rich, good on ya’. I think the code should be written so that you can leave a substantial amount to your descendants. Anything in excess of that, you can choose to form a charitable trust with (won’t tax that) or the government will take it. Most of the mega-wealthy will choose to form charitable trusts, and that’s fine. I’ll even let them appoint their offspring to run the trust and draw a salary for doing it.
We’ve seen several times that large accumulations of capital damage the polity of this country. We need to do something about it.
((((Oilfieldguy))))
My niece had the same thing. Think she was a few years older. It was a slow recovery, but she’s been just fine for over 15 years. I hope your son will be well.
The second thing we should point out is that social security tax increases were added to the general fund. This made the deficit appear smaller. When the rich got tax cuts, the government increased its borrowings. We can assume that many of the buyers were the rich, who had increased after-tax money as a result of the tax cuts. They borrowed money that otherwise would have been tax proceeds. So we paid interest to the rich while they escaped taxes. Now they tell us we don’t have enough to pay social security.
It is a feed forward process that has been going on for the last 30 years. Look around at our political, military, media, and economic leadership classes. These are not the best and the brightest. They are the most compliant and well connected. The result is what I have come to call the Age of Stupid. Healthcare, education, job security, and retirement have all been sacrificed so that a small number of very greedy and very stupid people can loot the country. Anyone who has listened to cable news or a Congressional hearing or economic analysis on CNBC or a briefing by General Petraeus or anything from George Bush or Dick Cheney or Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for that matter, you know what I mean. The people who lead this country are either criminally clueless or cluelessly criminal.
I suspect there is no coincidence that the only point a higher percentage of income went to the top 1% was right before the great depression. So much for trickle down…
Americans need to seize what’s been stolen from us in round one of this class war. Time to level the field — confiscate the hoarded, illegally gotten wealth of the past thirty years and put it back to work for the people.
The GOP idealizes the Eisenhower years, when we built the interstate highway system and many other infrastructure additions and improvements, thanks to a 90% top tax rate. Let’s go back to that on incomes over five million dollars, and renew America’s promise and spirit.
We can only win this class war if we engage. And the rich will end up better off after all, since they won’t be subject to an angry, hungry mob a decade from now.
OT CNN calling up to 296 electoral votes for Obama, not toss ups, etc….ones clearly for Obama. That’s movement, folks
Trickle down is really piss-on.
McCain’s done. Someone stick a fork in him. But don’t give up the skeer!
Elizabeth Dole calling her opponent “Godless”; what has she learned about Judge not…
Agree.
I just hope that what we have in this country is not terminal stupidity.
Coverage of Palin telling ABC news about her plans for 2012….a real no-no wouldn’tyasay? Maybe lots of them will just lose it….alittle more.
Here’s a link.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/…..n-godless/
Scurrilous stuff.
Wow. If patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, where does that place Liddy Dole and the rest of the Repiglicans?
They are including what they label as leaning Obama>
Who was it yesterday talking about how much could be gained if we have a works program to go green…improve the environment and put alot of people to work. sounds good doesn’t it?
i have and I like em *g* I’ll add this song to check out tonight
Caribou Barbie is soooo far of the reservation that she may run for President in 2012 for the Alaska Independence Party.
Thanks…I thought they were going to the already settled/for now. Thanks. Still looks good.
Exactly – the beneficiaries of the Reagan/Bush tax cuts were never going to take their windfalls and build factories or do research and development – government interest payments are a lot easier than actually working for your money if you have it to lend out. And the taxes that Reagan did increase were, as you point out, were regressive payroll taxes (capped at $100K or so, even if for a good purpose such as SS). Which were then spent on things other than SS.
We can certainly hope…she has p** off almost everyone she knows and then some.
ToP is something your DJ hubby can toss into his mix … great stuff for dancing and the best horn section in all of the rock universe.
ABCNews Gibson interviewing Obama. Gibson brings up class warfare, spreading the wealth. Gibson is a fine example of media stoogery.
I am confused by the rightards shrieking of “class warfare” when a suggestion is made toward the progressive tax system America has had for over a hundred years. The class warfare has been conducted by the elite and powerful for years with alarming success, leading to the economic calamity we face today.
The suggestion that minorities conspired to collapse sophisticated money exchangers and world markets is a typical skirmish the investment class protectors wage. How funny.
Thanks for the good thoughts.
ooohhhh
my vocabulary folder had that word in mothballs
will refresh now and use often…thanx
Gibson pitches keeping another stooge Gates at Department of Defense. The man is relentless in his hackery.
You don’t even need to go to (formerly) Swedish levels of income taxation on very high incomes to get significant revenue, even Clinton levels of income taxation would do it if the estate tax were maintained and the Bush dividend tax cuts were repealed. The 1% had a real tax holiday for the past 8 years.
How about re instating the taxes on “unearned income” which allows people who do nothing but grow wealthy and live off of investments and dividends to pay NO TAXES!!!!!!!!!!
See you get to be so rich that you live off investments and no income taxes!
I wouldn’t be surprised if he already has their stuff but I’m going to ask him. He is playing at an election party tuesday *g*
2012 is a ways off. She is going to have to hold on to what she has. She cannot name herself senator to replace Stevens even if he did win. She would either have to win it on her own or run for governor again. Her ship has sprung some leaks up there.
And a “dead heat” in Arizona…poor McOld
more on teh “vocaublary folder+
And a “dead heat” in Arizona…poor McOld
it’s not the heat; it’s the stupidity.
I’m all for class war fare on the rich…. Let’s get the wealth they stole from and on the toil of workers.
Finance managers – hedge fund managers, for example produce NOTHING but make HUGE earnings in the hundreds of millions per years in “fees” and transaction commissions. That’s not WORK worth more than what a sales clerk gets!
I want a late birthday present — Arizona going Obama.
ding ding ding ding
You and your son are in my thoughts, Oilfieldguy.
And I much appreciate the link you provided.
David
teddy, teh ditto from me
selise, had a link to a blogger Chris Floyd who pointed out how trillions were found within weeks for Wall Street but programs like universal healthcare have been left to languish for decades. We can debate who owns our government but it is pretty clear that we don’t.
fyi – listening to a seminar from monday with roubini, levitt and al hunt (of bloomberg news). roubini says (with what sounds like a great deal of confidence) that obama will choose summers for treasury (and tim geithner of ny fed) for his deputy. also from rge monitor:
You may get it….
To Hugh, In part of Clinton’s speech this afternoon, he was talking about how screwed the drug program has been with the benefits to the drug co. without any bargaining for lower prices, plus how high our medical costs are compared to other countries and with less coverage. It’s pretty clear.
from chris floyd: The God That Failed: The 30-Year Lie of the Market Cult:
which clinton said that?
Bill…he was in Fla. with Obama.
investing in our infrastructure makes us money it doesn’t cost a dime, it is repaid with dividends
There is a lot of truth to what Roubini is saying. I get so tired each time the stock market has a good day and the media declares the worst is over. Looking at what Paulson has done, it is clear that fixing the fundamentals has never been his concern. Everything he has done has been geared to keeping this economic house of cards from totally collapsing on his watch and kicking this can down the road to the next Administration.
I would love to see massive layoffs=
in the health insurance industry.
and according to roubini (again – same link) this is what kicking the can (not his words) will get us:
What time is the Obama spot tonight? Please.
Same here.
Market volatility was extreme in the Great Depression … much like what we’re seeing today. Paulson isn’t this stupid. Or maybe he is.
In one hour.
Great. Thanks
thanks.
i should try to give it a listen myself before condemning him… but if you heard right – damn bill clinton for both his trips policy (Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights) and his hypocrisy. i wonder how many people he killed – probably quite close to bush’s total.
And if I heard right, he is going to be spending more on the stump time with O. He was also talking about the economy under him and where we are now, policy stuff on taxes, etc.
That reminds me of these charts of the bear market rallies of 1929, and on through the next few years
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/…..s-big.html
Investing in our people, where true creative genius resides, is our best investment, in health care, in education, in their well-being generally, and, then, in society as a whole (”society” being, simply, the way people treat each other) which IS the function of a true “social contract”, while simultaneously investing in the infrastructure leads to a stable, secure and properous nation.
Let us suggest that the obscenely wealthy take their money and run (as most have done or intend to do anyhow by “off-shoring” ‘their’ monies) or else let ‘them’ prepare for a much-changed future in which they behave far differently and respectfully …
While we are at it, let us consider the ‘help’ which the Political Class has provided the most greedy and irresponsible among us.
The wealthy could not have pulled off this coup without the connivance and complicity of those whose first responsibility, in a supposed ‘democracy’, lies with the people of this nation. There MUST be consequence. Period.
Unless and until the wealthy and the Political Class are held peersonally accountable … there.shall.be.no.change.
sounds interesting. i should give it a listen, even if it makes my blood boil. *g* thanks again.
i don’t see how we get out of what looks to me to be our current dead end – where we’re happy to hold the Rs accountable, and the rightwingers are happy to hold the Ds accountable (although, imo, mostly for stupid stuff) and we never work jointly to hold the whole mass of the political class responsible.
Lines in Fla 4 to 6 hours..
We shall have to use our imagination.
And stop being so frigging polite.
‘They’ will do nothing to support change. ‘They shall fight change.
If the people are not willing to do what is, obviously, going to be necessary, then we are, without doubt, at a “dead end”.
imagination is usually not my problem. but i’m stuck – would be very happy to hear more ideas (hint hint *g*).
…. i don’t think most right wingers (the regular people) will fight us very hard if we stop attacking them and go after the political class as a whole. but what do i know? that’s an untested hypothesis.
The Dems may be the party of tax and spend, but the Repubs are the party of borrow and spend and they borrow more than the Dems spend. Be that as it may, it follows that the middle and lower classes spend more on stuff. If you want to keep demand going, society’s capital must be spread as widely as possible. When wealth gets concentrated, the rich purchase a variety of mansions and expensive clothes, but their spending does not come close to keeping things going.
As for taxes generally, it depends on how you feel about government. If you feel government is wrong and should be drowned in a bathtub, then taxes are a waste. If you see public services other than defense as necessary, than taxes are the price of living in a civil society. Taxes are not an investment for which the individual receives in public services the amount he pays in taxes. People without children pay for schooling other people’s children just as people who are fortunate enough not to suffer a fire pay to support a fire department.
As for getting out of the box we are in, not only must we increase taxes on the wealthy, we might try to restructure our debt. Go to our largest creditors like China, Japan, Saudi Arabia etc and ask that principal and interest payments be postponed say five years while we develop efficient salt water desalinization, cold fusion, improved batteries etc. In five years we repay them in kind instead of cash. This provides money for going in new directions without printing it and it provides jobs for Americans both in new scientific endeavors and for repairing infrastructure.
Eli liveblogs the speech
First we might examine which historical example(s) mlght best serve as ‘guidance’, and modify such example(s) (if we ‘discover’ any we should consider applicable) to suit our circumstance.
Then we must consider that, realistically, ’tis ALWAYS a small ‘core’ group, who, trusting each other enough to work together, develop the essential principles of what the end result should ‘look’ like.
(FDL might be considered to be ‘preparing’ the ‘foundation’ for such an accomplished ‘group’, for example.)
When these steps have been taken … well, then, all involved pledge, their lives, their sacred honor, and their wealth, such as it might be, to each other and the ‘battle’ is ‘joined’.
As we are committed to non-violent struggle, we shall have to understand that ‘they’ are not …
There is no way to move forward unless people are willing to put their ‘comfort’, their lives, AND their bodies on the line.
There are certain commenters here (and I ‘imagine’ you understand whom, selise), who have, quite clearly articulated how things must ‘begin’.
The issue, beyond thinking clearly, rationally, and bearing in mind that there shall be a ‘cost’, has to do with what all of us have come to term “backbone”.
I realize I’ve suggested nothing ‘new’, selise, but deeper discussion might needs await the ‘run-ups’ to what appears, to me, an inevitable (and crucially necessary) Constitutional Convention, where the ‘discussion’ would be engaged in earnest.
We are where we are.
The next steps, all of them, require courage and resolve.
Nice, ekunin.
Let us begin.
Are you listening, Barack?
Couldn’t someone challenge that as unconstitutional, as not equal treatment under the law?
Not until the Constitution actually is operational again.
Besides, Mark, that is simply too reasonable and JUST, for this “right of center” nation, doncha know?
But yes, its about time for such an audacious ‘change’.
Also remember, it was Sec. of Def. Rumsfeld who announced on 9/10/01 that the DoD had lost track of several TRILLION dollars.
Could’ve bought some nice healthcare with that money.
They are shoving money into the US as fast as they can. There is a huge fight from the periphery to the center, and it is propping up the US stock market. But that means very little for the real economy.
Yes, Ian, there is no ‘there’, there.
Just ‘crutches’ and ‘props’ …
Quite evident yesterday, and ‘they’glibly assumed today would continue the ‘trend’…
Ian, I posted a quote from an article on this money mess. It appeared but has now disappeared. Here is the link. Please give us your opinion.
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com…..wild-27837
scout