Please welcome John Podesta, former White House chief of staff under Bill Clinton, president of the Center for American Progress, head of the Obama transition team and author of The Power of Progress -- jh
In his new book, The Power of Progress: How America's Progressives Can (Once Again) Save Our Economy, Our Climate, and Out Country, John Podesta notes that "it will take many years and serious leadership to reverse the disastrous outcomes of Bush's presidency."
No shit.
But should Barack Obama win the election in November and Democrats retain control of both houses -- fingers crossed, knock on wood -- Americans will be presented with an opportunity unprecedented in many of our lifetimes for seeing true progressive change in this country come about.
The conservative ideology ushered in by Ronald Reagan that has largely guided this country since 1980 is disgraced and lies in ruins on the nightly news. But what are we to replace it with? What should the role of government in our lives be, and how can we restore the American dream in a rapidly changing global economy?
It's comforting to read Podesta's new book and realize that the man that Obama has tasked with leading his transition team is considering these questions quite thoughtfully. (The leader of McCain's transition team, on the other hand, was a lobbyist for Saddam Hussein.) Podesta chronicles the history of progressive politics in the 20th century and looks at how it addressed many of the challenges we faced as a nation, with an eye to how these lessons can be applied to the monumental hurdles which stand before us.
Progressivism, as Podesta notes, is not just a word for people afraid to call themselves liberals in a disgraced environment. While liberalism and progressivism interweave and intertwine, post- New Deal liberalism is largely identified with the Democratic party, and is associated with the rise of federal government action. The Progressive Era -- which he dates from roughly 1900 to 1920 and identifies with the muckraking work of Jacob Riis, Ida Tarbell and Lincoln Steffens -- started at the municipal level and developed out of non-partisan reform efforts to clean up corruption and the domination of both parties by special interests.
There's a lot to chew on in this book, which is a quick pithy read I highly recommend (you can read an excerpt here). But given Podesta's role in transitioning from the Bush disaster in the event of an Obama victory, I was very interested in the admiration he showed for Roosevelt's first hundred days:
In the first three months of his administration -- the famous Hundred Days -- FDL signed into law fifteen major initiative to save the American economy, including the Emergency Banking Act, the creation of the Civilian Conservation Corps, the abandonment of the gold standard, the Federal Emergency Relief Act, the Agricultural Adjustment Act, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Securities Act, the Glass-Steagall Act (to implement banking regulation), and the National industrial Recovery Act. Soon afterward came massive programs to expand rural electrificiation and -- through agencies such as the Civil Works Administration and the Works Progress Administration -- public works projects that set up "39,000 new schools (70 percent of all new schools built during the 1930s), 2,500 new hospitals, 325 airports, and tens of thousands of smaller projects," according to Jonathan Alter in his recent book about the Hundred Days.
Even with the courts stepping in to strike down his early New Deal legislation, Roosevelt pushed ahead with the second New Deal that included the creation of Social Security in 1935 and passage of the National Labor Relations Act, which formally recognized union organizing, collective bargaining, and strikes. Combined, FDR's actions in the 1930s solidified the aspirations of countless reformers dating back to to the late nineteenth century and set the nation on the course of government support and intervention in the economy that remains to this day (despite the attacks on this legacy by the new proponents of laissez-faire).
Podesta then goes on to address progressive solutions to an equally challenging set of circumstances during an Obama administration -- solving global warming, security and health care for American workers, a strategy of sustainable security (in which he argues, as George Soros did during his visit to the Book Salon, that "the war on terror" frame must be undone).
So I'd like to get the discussion going by asking -- should Obama be elected, will he need to act as broadly and decisively as FDR right out of the gate? Will he be able to? What kind of conversations do we need to start having now about shaping our goals for the future in order to make that task easier? And what is the best way that we as progressives can act to bring about a safe and prosperous twenty-first century?
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John, Welcome to the Lake.
Jane, Thank you for Hosting this Special Book Salon today.
Perfect timing Jane, and welcome to the Lake John. Looking forward to your responses.
Welcome, John, and thanks so much for being here today. The book is great. Highly recommended:
Amazon Link
Welcome John!
Thank you Jane, for hosting this chat.
Everyone is aware of the financial disaster that we have seen over the past eight weeks, but the failure of conservative government has been a failure for not just for the last eight weeks or the last eight months, but for the last eight years, so the agenda for a new Administration is huge from restoring Americas standing in the world to dealing with the financial crisis, to getting jobs and wages growing again and to dealing with the energy crisis. It will take wit and will that was present in the Roosevelt Administration to meet these challenges simultaneously.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Digg is open for business.
I would start with a discussion of paygo religion and Peterson Foundation/Concord Coalition type infiltration of the national discourse.
Budgetary discipline seems only ever to come up when domestic investments (involving non-millionaires) are broached, but never seems to apply to war funding or other military spending, where the bulk of the discretionary spending lies.
To what extent is a potential Obama administration willing to take this on, rather than reify the notion of Peterson Foundation ideology through verbal and policy based nods and obeisance?
Thanks so much, John, for joining us!
Hi, I’m curious to know how you see Obama’s first hundred days and what you are preparing them for, looking back through the lens of FDR. How do you think the current economic crisis is going to affect that?
Waiting for commentors here is just like waiting for the next Kruschev letter.
John, why just the last eight years, rather than the last 30?
I can see the rhetorical advantage of focusing on the Bush years during an election, but really, aren’t we talking about the hegemony of Reaganomics as more or less ascendant on policy?
How can any real Liberal/Progressive reforms, such as FDR’s, be passed when the DLC or “centrist” wing of the DemocratIC Party has consistently stood in the way of such reforms for nearly two decades now?
Welcome to FDL, John. Thanks so much for writing the book, and for doing the book salon today — looking forward to the discussion.
One of my biggest concerns is undoing the vast damage to both reputation and culture within the Department of Justice, and getting better judicial nominees up for the federal bench. While I realize that talking about details this close to an election is anathema on the consultant end of things, I’d love your thoughts on some of the finer points on restoration of the “justice” portion of the Department of Justice and shoring up the rule of law and our commitment to fairness of process.
I do think that it cannot be emphasized enough that people who think government is the problem should never be trusted to actually govern anything. Especially people who listen to Grover Norquist. *g*
I’m also curious about how you think that a new administration will face the challenge of getting out of Iraq. I was talking to a House member the other day who is worried because there will be tremendous pressure to do something quickly, and there is no consensus on what to do.
Mr Podesta,
Welcome to FDL and thank you for being here.
I have not had an opportunity to read your book so forgive me if you answer this in it, but what cand we do, as progressives/liberals to push soon to be President Obama and his administration toward a progressive path? And how do we assure that the progressive measures don’t get diluted in the House and Senate by folks from the Republican wing of the Democratic Party?
As a verteran of the Clinton Administration I’m used to cleaning up Bush’s bad debts, but I think that you can have strong growth, make good long term investments and keep jobs and wages growing while simultaneously providing discipline for the federal budget. The challenge for the incoming Administration will be to focus on first things first, to get the economy growing again, which will require fiscal stimulus in the short term with a path that leads to long term fiscal stability.
I think that’s a very good question. Obama has recently reached out to the Blue Dogs, and I understand why — you don’t want to be fighting them. But is he reaching out to the Progressive Caucus, and are there plans to work with them as well? They have a lot of members and seem like a logical choice for anyone who wants to achieve progressive change.
No nukes, we promise.
In line with Christy’s question, how can we undo the politiciztion of the federal agencies without descending into some kind of “purge”?
The reconstruction of the culture at DOJ and the US Attorneys Offices will be a monumental task. Many alwyers serve for only a 3 year commitment, so there are lawyers in DOJ who have never been exposed to things the way they should be and just don’t know any better.
Regarding the transition let me say that I am providing private advice to Senator Obama, and I can’t get into those details (maybe I can come back in November). But as the Senator said in the last debate, his domestic priorities in addition to stabilizing the financial situation are going to be energy, health care, and public education.
I think that may be one of the toughest questions to answer, not just for DOJ, but across the spectrum of governmental agencies. Given the politicized hiring practices alleged and/or proved in a number of departments, or the politicized training and emphasis of a number of folks even without hiring issues, I don’t know how you even begin to reconstruct a “follow the laws, rules and regs” sort of fairness approach when all folks know is a skewed analysis model.
And we are talking science agencies, law and order, defense, intel, agriculture, any regulatory agency where hires were taught to be anti-regulation regardless of the public’s interests therein…what a mess.
That’s an honest answer, so let me change the question a bit — as the author of a book on how to achieve progressive change, what do you think the best way to go about things would be? Do you think sweeping measures right out of the gate are called for?
Senator Feingold just held a hearing on this topic. Where I had the privledge of testifying. I focuses on the excessive secrecy of the Bush Administration, but it covered many topics including the closing of Guantanamo and stopping the practice of the secret Office of Legal Counsel opinions. I recommend the entire hearing to you, as it covered a lot of ground. The link to my testimony is here.
Also, where do you think Employee Free Choice should rank? Senator Schumer has thankfully pledged the support of all Democrats running for Senate, but it promises to be the mother of all battles. Should it be a first or second tier priority?
I think it is almost impossible to compare what FDR faced in his first 100 days and what Obama already knows about (and who knows what other rotting messes are going to be left behind for people to find in January). Obama not only has an economic crisis to face, he also has a government that not only does not work, but is filled with people who are hostile to him and to anyone he brings in. This is the many headed hydra..what does he grapple with first? This is where it will be necessary for Obama to be extremely careful and bold about his choices for people he brings in because he needs to have people who are not only connected with his brain and philosophy, but also who have the force of personality to get done what needs to get done. He can’t do it by himself and he can’t get anything done if he’s constantly having to put out fires by himself.
Books like Bart Gellman’s “Angler” have shown how putting the right people into decision-making positions — not just at the top, but three and four layers into the bureaucracy — is at least as important as having the “right” policies, when it comes to getting things done in DC. Your book is great on demonstrating the policy end of things, but could you talk a bit about candidate recruitment, both for elective office and for appointed positions.
Conservatives have had their wingnut-welfare think tanks, but how can progressives nourish their up and coming leaders?
Welcome!
What would you like Obama to do first?
If I could make a wish, I would like him to look at increasing home heating assistance. Our area has a 17% increase in electricity turn-offs, and no help until November.
John, as you know Pakistan is in a delicate state right now — and the bellicose talk of both Republicans and Democrats like Obama isn’t helping matters:
Refugees create a ready recruiting pool for the Taliban and al Qaida, and leave the abandoned areas ripe for infiltration by terrorists. This is why waging large-scale war here is as bad an idea as was invading Iraq. I hope that some members of the Pentagon’s top people are informing Senator Obama of this, and that this may be why he’s toned down the bellicose rhetoric lately.
I think a positive start to things would be an edict by President Obama to immediately put the kybosh on Bush initiatives like Bush did on Clinton’s initiatives back in 2000. I can’t remember the details, but it made a lasting impression.
T-
Also, John, one of the things that you make very clear in the book is that government may not be the only solution for a problem, but that good government done well — and a hard working government working FOR the American public’s interests not the petty, crony-ridden, free-for-all we’ve had the last few years — can make an enormous difference in all of our lives.
One of the best examples of this is early childhood education and early special education intervention services that government funding sustains, I think. That early investment in the short run in the lives of at risk children make a HUGE difference, not just in their lives and those of their families, but in terms of cost-savings over the long haul throughout the child’s education. And yet, we never seem to talk about it on a cost-benefit analysis level.
Having worked as a prosecutor, I have seen the benefits of early intervention versus the long-term costs of having to deal with adults who are recidivist criminals with long-term mental health issues from years of neglect and problems begun as small children through their juvenile and then adult years. The progressive approach on this is so much more effective. Why don’t we talk about it from the pure costs and benefits analysis standpoint more often, do you think?
Yep — I covered that hearing here at FDL. It was superb, as has his whole hearing series been on that subject.
Mr. Podesta,
Thank you for being here.
My husband was a Vietnam vet who survived torture, and suffered from his injuries for over thirty years until his fatal heart attack three years ago. My question is: How can we best push, in a good way, President Obama to have an independent, thorough and open investigation into those who wrote the Bush definition of torture, those who aided and abetted it becoming the law, policy and practice of the United States, and those who actually carried out the torture, as well as an independent, thorough and open accounting of all those held in US custody since January 21, 2001?
With gratitude,
For Dan,
Heather
Will accountability be on the table? The rule of law must be restored and if those who ignored it do not reap the consequences of their actions, won’t others be encouraged to do the same things in future?
We’ve seen illegal domestic surveillance, state sponsored torture, wild claims of executive privledge, the announced creation of a phantom 4th branch of government, the list goes on and on.
Unless the perpetrators of this assault on the rule of law are consequenced, the next time will be even worse.
I believe that Pres. Ford thought he was doing the right thing urging the nation to put behind the (we thought) abberent behavior of President Nixon.
However, that only encouraged the first Pres. Bush to issue pardons and obstruct in the Iran Contra Scandal.
The same players from those first two assaults on democracy, rose from the political graveyard again to be at the center of one of the most cynical power grabs in the history of this nation.
If we never consequence people for assaulting the Constitution, we are all but encouraging them to try again.
So, is accountability going to be on the table?
One of Senator Obama’s earliest supporters and strongest backers is Rep. Jan Schakowsky, from Chicago, a leading memeber of the progressive caucus in the House. I’m sure she is in constant contact with Sen. Obama about progressive leaders priorities in the House.
Speaking of Chicago, which is getting knocked around by Sen. McCain a lot these days. I write a lot about my hometown and its progressive history in the 20th century in my book.
Yes
Can we really make progress without bringing into sunshine both the mistakes of former Democratic adminsitrations as well as bringing to account (not a public tsk tsk, following by a well paid sinecure, but to real account) those who trample on rights, liberties and laws with disdain?
The repeal of Glass-Stegall does involve Democratic as well are Republican action. The renditions of the Albanian grabs to Egypt, which were propagandized by Zawahiri before African Embassy bombings, stem to the Clinton administration.
Casual statements by Chuck Schumer about torture having its place, co-sponsorship of the DTA with its amnesty and deprivation of habeas provisions by Levin even while Maher Arar’s lawsuit was pending and reports of hundreds at GITMO and tens of thousands of baseless detentions with approved abuse were occuring in Afghanistan and Iraq, Obama running to Russ Feingold and telecom accountability to secure the primary in Wisconsin and then promptly reneging after he was de facto candidate, etc.
I’m less than impressed and enthralled when Obama and Sunstein talk about moving on, not dwelling, closing GITMO but doing it in a way that won’t give the “terrorists” there the “same rights” as Americans, etc.
Tell me why the Ford approach to the current administration is what we need or why that isn’t what Obama will give. I think a basic tenet of every faith and every psychologic or moral approach to past depravity is that you can’t make progress with an unresolved past - that progress builds on a base of recognition and accountability. Why is that something that goes either unmentioned or disputed by Obama and his spokespersons?
Home-heating issues are going to be tough this year, you can already see that with elderly folks here in WV only partially filling home heating oil tanks because they can’t afford to do more and worries about gas bills to come.
Another issue that is huge now and will only get larger is crumbling infrastructure issues, local roads and bridges, school repairs, and such — with funding sources shrinking for states and municipalities as the economy continues to tank. And yet, those same infrastructure projects would be a good way to pump some money into local economies to give them a kick start.
Lots of decisions points in the next few months. And, unfortunately, most of them will be simply sitting on George Bush’s desk unmoved, because he doesn’t seem to be pushing much of anything other than his bike out of the garage.
Very, very good questions, LHP!
“We should look forward and not back” is a nice slogan for the people who don’t want to see any digging into the past simply for the sake of settling scores and exacting vengeance. But unless there is an understanding of exactly what enabled the Bush Administration to do the things it has done that LHP and others have noted, there is no way of correcting them nor preventing them from returning.
Yup. People who want to be nice to the Cons out of fear that they’ll retaliate should know that the Cons will use anything and everything, including hangnails, as a pretext for acting like friggin’ lunatics.
Look at how they treated Bill Clinton — who as the DLC’s poster child was so conservative a Democrat he’d pass for an Eisenhower Republican, and would bend over backwards to be gracious to his political rivals. Knuckling under to them does NOT make them go easy on you — instead, it makes them see you as weak, contemptible, and deserving of further beatings.
Mr Podesta,
Welcome to the Lake and thank you for joining us today -
Senator Obama took a significant step day before yesterday in his remarks about all of us having to change course wrt debt and living more within our means - FDR would have been pleased
John - frankly, engaging the electorate, making citizenship cool again, and getting We The People to “buy in” and participate in our own recovery is the only thing that will get a President Obama through his first four years
God Speed to you and all those advising Senator Obama
Mr. Podesta,
I hope that your 100 day plan incorporates a “Plan B”. If we don’t get to 60 in the Senate, no amount of comity or bipartisan efforts will have any bearing on the republicans’ intent to be the party of obstruction. They have proved that during the last Congress with a record number of filibusters. The Obama Administration must be armed and loaded for bear to go on the offensive against them on day one. The Rs have proven effective at that strategy and nothing but the Dems “coming out swinging” is going to be appropriate. Take the fight to ‘em. We’ve waited long enough.
Thanks,
T-
I see this from two different perspectives. One is first-hand: during my work for the last 5 years at the Center for American Progress I have had the privlege of working with an amazing number of great young thinkers who have been interested in progressive political and policy changes. But more broadly, one of the hallmarks of the Obama campaign has been its openness and its ability to bring literally millions of people into politics, who care about the future of the country. I think a President Obama will have an amazing opportunity to bring in a whole new generation of leaders into the government.
John,
Welcome to the Lake!
I’m from Wisconsin, where Bob Lafollette founded the Progressive Party, and ran for President of the United States as the nominee of his own Progressive Party in 1924, carrying Wisconsin and 17% of the national popular vote. I even lived in a house once owned by a member of his family. Did you look into Lafollette’s legacy as part of your historical background?
Bob in HI
I’ve gotta go, but good luck and here’s hoping you have a good infrastructure/alternative energy domestic work agenda bc we’ll need it.
The country is experiencing social inequality, the likes of which we haven’t seen since 1929. I think there are two principle reasons for that, the economic policies pursued by Reagan, Bush, Bush, particularly the tax cuts for the rich; and second the assult on unions.
Passing the Employee Free Choice Act would be a tremendous step in the right direction, but it will likely take 60 democrats in the Senate to get it done.
John, one thing missing from your otherwise fine book is any mention of the progressive blogosphere.
How do you see websites and online communities like FDL (among others) fitting into the picture of how “America’s Progressives can (once again) Save Our Economy, Our Climate, and Our Country”?
Will there be an effort to end the secrecy of voting machine software? It’s very difficult to trust those things today.
Is “Freedom Of Speech” still a right?
Mr Podesta,
are you familiar with Our Ian Welsh ???
his is one of the few voices out there that has foretold and explained the Economy and markets with astonishing accuracy. he has written several posts of late about all that Senator Obama’s will inherit
like President Clinton, Jane Hamsher collects the best wonks and we are spoiled rotten as a result.
no response necessary - just hope you will take a peek at Ian’s work
Yep, in fact it’s in my book. I just checked the index of my book and it lists 15 citations under his name. Let me give you a litle portion from the book (page 20):
“The embrace of ‘progressive’ as a label was perhaps most prevalent among Republican Party reformers such as Teddy Roosevelt, Robert La Follette, and Albert Cummins as they tried to break up the corporate machines that dominated the Republican Party.”
By the way, in recent years, it appears that the corporate machine has fought back and won its place in leading the Republican Party.
saw Congresswoman Schakowsky yesterday on the Chris Matthews show
what a fireball ! so enjoyed her methodical takedown of the smug and hopefully soon to be former Congressman Dan Lungren
As we come to the end of this great Book Salon,
John, Thank you for stopping by the Lake today and spending time with us.
Jane, Thank you for Hosting today’s great Book Salon.
Everyone, if you haven’t bought John’s excellent book, there is a link above.
Thanks all.
I’m a big believer in progressive blogs to get the truth out and to change the course of this country. And if you think I’m just b.s.-ing, check out the Center for American Progress Action Fund’s blog ThinkProgress.
Agreed.
John,
Another question on Afghanistan–
Obama has been talking about shifting more of our armed forces to Afghanistan, but he has not clarified what our mission there should be. Since Afghanistan has defeated two of the 20th Century’s greatest Empires (Britain, and Russia), this is not a trivial matter. And please, no Bush-McCain mission to “win” in Afghanistan. From a progressive perspective, what should our mission in Afghanistan be? I don’t want our troops to be sent there on a poorly defined mission that is impossible to achieve.
Bob in HI
ThinkProgress is one of the best in the business. A serious must-read with a great staff. Congratulations on that.
Thank you for having me this afternoon. I really enjoyed my time.
Obama pledges to replicate Harlem Childrens Zone
I’m well aware of Think Progress, and thus was surprised that even they didn’t get a mention in your book, given your connection to them through CAP.
Perhaps in your sequel: “How America’s Progressives DID (once again) save our economy, . . .”
Thanks so much for being here today. We really enjoyed it. And best of luck, it’s an exciting time and again, the book made me really hopeful about the thought being put into where a new administration should head.
Again, it’s highly recommended reading and you can get it here.
Mr. Podesta, a great honor to have you here at FDL.
The thing about Justice is that it mostly looks back, by its very nature. Even when prosecuting those planning to do something illegal, evidence is required that they have already been actively engaged in such planning– which requires looking back. So unless Obama is prepared to issue a blanket amnesty for all illegal acts conducted during the past 8 years, his dept of justice HAS to look back.
The question is whether prosecution will be more lenient on those of high rank or not. I hope that the traditional value of “blind” justice will prevail in an Obama administration. John, how will you advise Obama in this regard?
Bob in HI
Sorry I didn’t get to participate directly. Let’s hope that Obama will start cleaning up the rot in the Democratic Party and the nation. We need good policy and a show of actual memory and justice when it comes to the stupidity of the past 30 years. I noticed that Podesta didn’t say anything bad about the Clintons…but the fact is that a lot of deregulation and the seeds for the current mess got started under Clinton’s administration. Clinton was good at retooling the government but not good at improving the underpinnings of the American economy. Obama needs to be…or, as some are now predicting, the fissures in American society will grow…as we are witnessing when we see McCain trying to rein in extremism on the right…that will end and extremism will grow…I already see some of it happening to my once libertarian and centrist friends…we are becoming like France’s 3rd Republic…where the left is ineffective and the right and the general citizenry lose faith in the legal forms or intellectual and moral quality of the nation’s leaders.
So our first Green Deal (New Deal) or GEM The Green Energy Movement should be putting solar, wind and geothermal, etc in homes. 2nd can be Energy efficient windows, furnances, hot water heaters and thermostates, etc. 3rd) Better and more recycling and repairing. People will need to be trained for these expanding occupations. The less energy we need off of the grid the cheaper it becomes which leaves more money for food. FDR had telephone lines ran out to people outside the cities. And he paid people to travel the country and collect our history through stories and pictures.