Here’s the funny thing, so far governments have not actually taken this crisis seriously. Oh, they know it’s bad, and they intend to do some stuff to sort of fix it, mostly by running printing presses hot and giving money to bankers, then trying to make sure that money doesn’t get to the real economy and cause inflation (though you will be expected to pay for the bankers bailout, be sure of that. They sure won’t be.)
Let’s use an analogy. You’re in charge of a large company and for years your finance division has been racking up huge profits. It’s gone from 10% of your profits to 40%. You’ve been paying the VP in charge of that sector and his senior executives huge bonuses, hundreds of millions every year. Why not? They deserve it, they’re bringing in money by the truckload.
Then one day the VP comes to you and says "actually, we’re so far in debt that we’re going to require a huge infusion of money from the rest of the company, and we might even destroy the company the debts are so large."
You reply "but I thought you were making record profits? How can it be that you actually have such massive losses?"
"Well," he says, " we were lying about the profits, we were leveraging massively, we were cooking the books, we were booking future profits from as present income and so on. Most of the profits were bogus, but the debts are real."
What would you do? What is the first thing you would do? You would fire him. What’s the second thing you would do? You would put someone else in charge, someone you trusted and probably someone who isn’t from the Finance division. What’s the third thing you’d do? You’d probably sue the bastard to try and get as much money back as possible, and you’d try and get as much money back from his executives, all of whom were complicit in the fraud.
The government equivalents would be to insist that any company being bailed out gets a new board, new management and that both of those are government controlled. If you’re going to fail without government help, well then, you don’t get to still be in charge, because at best you’re incompetent and most of you are actually crooks.
You would cap executive compensation. You would tax the people who benefited from the fraud to get the money back that you are using in bailing the companies out. You would tax the financial sector going forward to cover the risk of them screwing up again.
If you aren’t doing these things you aren’t serious. Leaving the same people in charge who caused the problem means that it will inevitably happen again. It is also bone stupid in terms of trying to fix things—these people are incompetent and crooks, why would you want them in charge of fixing the corporations they themselves broke?
Despite all the screaming and running around, at core governments aren’t taking this crisis seriously. They think they can paper it over by throwing enough money at it, that they can get the middle class to pay for bailing out the rich, and that they can go on with business as usual.
Stirling calls this the world’s "1925" moment. Not 1929, because they can probably do it, for a little while: for a few years. But it sets up the next crisis, and that one they won’t be able to paper over. He may be wrong, he may be right, but what I will tell you is this: leaving the people in charge who caused the crisis, leaving in place the incentive systems (i.e., compensation) that caused them to behave as they have, means that they will do it again. Why not? They got all the profits as salary and bonuses, taxpayers cleaned up the mess. Why wouldn’t they do it again? What, exactly, is the downside for most of them?
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Ian!
Let’s go all the way and take every asset, especially those they have offshored, from every executive who took part in blowing up companies for fun and profit.
Yes. So how can we shame the Republitards into passing reform in the Senate after Obama wins (knocking on wood here)?
Help send the right people to prison:
Digg this post please
Moral hazard is not an issue for the Gods of Wall Street. Bailing them out is par for the course. But lord help the poor who used their credit cards to pay for health care and now can’t pay. They should have died in the street.
EPUed from Scarecrow’s thread
79
Traditionally, banks have usually not provided financial services to clients with little or no cash income. Banks must incur substantial costs to manage a client account, regardless of how small the sums of money involved. For example, the total revenue from delivering one hundred loans worth $1,000 each will not differ greatly from the revenue that results from delivering one loan of $100,000. But it takes nearly a hundred times as much work and cost to manage a hundred loans as it does to manage one[citation needed]. A similar equation exists when delivering other financial services. There is a break-even point when providing loans or deposits below which banks lose money on each transaction they make. Poor people usually fall below it[citation needed].
In addition, most poor people have few assets that can be secured by a bank as collateral. As documented extensively by Hernando de Soto and others, even if they happen to own land in the developing world, they may not have effective title to it.[3] This means that the bank will have little recourse against defaulting borrowers.
Because of these difficulties, when poor people borrow they often rely on relatives or a local moneylender, whose interest rates can be very high. An analysis of 28 studies of informal moneylending rates in fourteen countries in Asia, Latin America and Africa concluded that 76% of moneylender rates exceed 10% per month, including 22% that exceed 100% per month. Moneylenders usually charge higher rates to poorer borrowers than to less poor ones.[4] While moneylenders are often demonized and accused of usury, their services are convenient and fast, and they can be very flexible when borrowers run into problems. Hopes of quickly putting them out of business have proven unrealistic, even in places where microfinance institutions are very active.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance
My bold the poor in this country have been facing a crisis of liquidity for quite sometime credit is available at rates as my bold shows for them as bad as third world nations.
To be fair its not as bad as the worst of third world credit but give Bush/McCain time!
Another EPU from Scarecrow’s thread
* Your loan will be due on your next payday that falls between 8 to 31 days away.
* If you are paid by paper check, we will give you a grace period of 1 day to deposit your check.
* If you are paid monthly, your loan will be due on your next payday that falls between 8 to 31 days away.
* If your pay dates fall outside of these ranges, your loan will be due in 14 days.
Maximum Loan Amount
The maximum loan amount for Washington residents will be $700.00.
Extensions
In accordance with Washington law, your loan must be paid in full on the due date. Early payoff requests must be received at least 2 business days prior to your due date.
Fees and Charges
Your loan fees will be $15.00 per $100 borrowed for the first $500 borrowed and $10.00 per every additional $100 borrowed.
http://www.cashnetusa.com/fee-…..ngton.html
My bold a 15% return on your money in 31 days? So in 10 months 150% return on your money not counting the default rate of course. This tax falls mostly on the poor as the banks get a tax payer bailout.
How about 5% in 31 days I bet that would boost the economy or are who ever is behind the payday loan companies
in trouble?
Is Obama going to do anything about this? Imagine if the poor in this country could get microloans instead of payday loans.
I think they are serious, Paulson in particular. They are just not serious about the same things we are.
So they are building a new hen house and putting the same foxes to guard it?
Every one of these fuckers needs to be strung up. If there are no consequences it will surely happen again. I think things are going to get quite a bit worse before it gets better. I hope BO will put a stop to the compensation these bastards are allowed.
Actually Ian, I think we’ve reached the situation where the VP in charge hid things so well from everyone that he got promoted to CEO. That way, he could keep things hidden for that much longer AND make all the underlings complicit because their jobs were all dependent on his good graces.
KO said my word ” Stones” I think he or his research staff read the Lake…or they know my (looks both ways, whispers) friends.
McPalin’s bizarro, erratic swings on credit crisis policy
are increasingly looking like Brownian motion.
I saw your comments last thread. Have you ever thought about writing a Sheriff Joe Diary?
My dear sister who is 9 months pregnant with her second child and lives out of the country most of the time had a good point this morning.
She was railing against companies and their collections agents. Because of their move overeas she had an item go to collections and she is outraged that despite paying the bills as soon as she gets notice of the debt (because she was out of the country). Her and her 2 1/2 year old daughter’s credit is dinged.
Particularly bad actors in her experience are hospitals and doctors offices. She even paid one bill twice to clear up the account because it was only 25 dollars, only to find the account is not cleared up.
My understanding of the way the system works is that any company you have an account with can raise your premium (insurance) or interest rate (credit cards) at will when they see you are late on an entirely separate account.
I don’t see any way that this practice does not punish people just as they are running into trouble thereby exacerbating the financial impact on these families. I find the idea that this is illegal repugnant.
Dems should fight to change this along with the egregious bankruptcy bill that was passed under Bush. It is the right thing to do.
Thanks Ian as always a very insightful post! And I couldn’t agree with you more! There is no reason to keep the same executives in place! THEY are the ones who caused this problem with a lot of help from Phil Graham and the Repthuglian party. They need to be trounced out of office and never br allowed back into the business where Greed is a Good Thing, especially when it is at the cos tof the people of our country!!
DUGG your Post Ian!!
Happy Thanksgiving Day, Ian !
… on behalf of sane Canadians, I’d like to apologize for David Frum …
Paulson takes Goldman Sachs quite seriously. Not unlike the seriousness that Cheney has for Halliburton. Similar to the serious attitude Neil Bush maintains regarding Ignite! software and its facilitator NCLB. Serious as Sarah Palin and Abstinence Only…
You saw Frum Stink up Maddow’s place? Frum wants to get serious after having foisted the Jolly Joker Dubya on us! Frum will make worst person tomorrow.
Happy Turkey Day, Petro!
I saw Maddow show him for what he really is … and even he couldn’t stand the smell … way to go Rachel !
The compensation issue was brought home to me when I saw a profile of Neel Kashkari, the Sorcerer’s Apprentice at the Treasury Dept who has been entrusted with the bailout program. Kashkari is all of 35, and was trained as an engineer and worked on projects for NASA, before he went to business school and then joined Goldman Sachs and went rapidly to the top there before going with Paulson to the Treasury in 2006. The economy is clearly sending distorting messages when the best and brightest move to finance instead of productive fields like engineering.
The other thing that occurred to me was Krugman’s point about the FEMAfication of government, and that it is not a good thing if the professionals in the Treasury have either left or been marginalized to the point where Mr. Kashkari, as bright as he may be, is put in charge of such a massive program at such a young age.
Happy Turkey Day, eh !
And to top it all off, one of the “best” from Wall Street got bumped up to be TreasSec, who’s in charge of the whole deal.
And Happy Election Eve! Let’s get the progressive vote out tomorrow!
Frum is Canadian? I think he really did shake up Rachel. I’ve rarely seen a guest call out a host like that.
Happy Thanksgiving to Ian, Petrocelli, Ishmael, skadl, and any other Canadian pups I missed.
Fire update: still lots of fires
2 deaths– one traffic related, the other homeless man and his dog overrun by the flames.
waiting to hear from Demi
Ari’s got a good post up on the Treasury’s actions
Sorry. This is really “bad”.
“The McCain folks are more helpful and generally friendly. The schedules are printed on actual books you can hold in your hand, read, and then plan accordingly. The press aides are more knowledgeable and useful to us in the news media. The events are designed with a better eye, and for the simple needs of the press corps. When he is available, John McCain is friendly and loquacious. Obama holds news conferences, but seldom banters with the reporters who’ve been following him for thousands of miles around the country. Go figure.
“The McCain campaign plane is better than Obama’s, which is cramped, uncomfortable and smells terrible most of the time. Somehow the McCain folks manage to keep their charter clean, even where the press is seated.
The other day in Albuquerque, N.M., the reporters were given almost no time to file their reports after McCain spoke. It was an important, aggressive speech, lambasting Obama’s past associations. When we asked for more time to write up his remarks and prepare our reports, the campaign readily agreed to it. They understood.”
Oh yeah, as you can see at the top of the “article” it was “presented by ExxonMobile”
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2…..7703.shtml
Happy Turkey day to the canucks
Happy 50th birthday Paddington Bear!!!
F-off Columbus
If by “Progressive”, you mean “Liberals” then yes ! *g*
Unfortunately, Harper will get the most seats, we’ll have to wait and see whether Dion and Layton will unite to toss him out of power …
The bolded text should tell us a great deal about how serious we can expect the Bush administration to be.
his plane smells? who wrote this? a 4th grader?
((((( Loo Hoo )))))
Thanks, tomorrow is our Election, so if you know any Canadians who’re voting for Harper’s NeoCons, do us a favor and change their minds.
Yes, Frum is Canadian. The putz.
Frum will make worst person tomorrow.
what – just for accepting an invitation, walking in and shitting on the floor?
nah – perfectly normal repig behavior.
It is too bad, however, that his stealth shit-bombing run stunned Rachel too much to ask the esteemed and oh-so-proper Mr. Frum about the “seriousness” of Rush Limbaugh…
It’s also the US Navy’s B-Day!
LOL … well said !
Is it possible that the reporters on McC’s plane don’t sweat? s/
Hey, these are Very Serious People you’re talking about. Show some respect.
I couldn’t even type that without smirking.
Probably true about Harper, but with so many votes in Ontario split three ways, Liberal/NDP/Green anything could happen.
Paddington is especially nice because he is a furriner (you know the whole london – panama thing) and he is brown.
i didn’t know it was the Navy’s bday. Did McCain do something special to mark the occasion?
Europeans are taking a different approach which is very similar to what you are suggesting Ian; even still, it remains to be seen how successful it will be but this writer thinks the worst is over with in Europe.
from a comment in chris floyd’s latest post:
we show every sign of being willing to pay. why should they think otherwise unless we give them reason to?
Like crash a bomber?
I’ve been hearing a lot of people commit to voting for the Liberals when they were saying earlier that they would go with NDP or Green … will be an interesting night tomorrow …
and i can’t your comment wo lol. thanks.
*spew*
Water Tiger thrashes David Frum upstairs…
Nah, he actually stayed awake all day.
Columbus the SAILOR guy… ok. Whew! I was thinking, “Don’t tell us in Central Ohio to F-off until right after the election!”
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/1…../index.htm
Thanks Phoenix Woman; I’d embedded the same link in #44; was acting on your suggestion to me from last week *G*
I may have to give up on Paulson. Look at this from Naked Capitalism:
Ok. I’ve read the statute, and put up diaries and commented on how the statute works, and I don’t see any authority for this. This seems to be the operative provision, section 101:
How does this authorize the Treasury Secretary force a bank to issue securities? How can he force the bank to change its compensation policies?
It’s one thing if the bank tries to sell something to the Treasury to save itself. This makes no legal sense to me.
The full article quoted in Naked Capitalism is here.
Did you see the commentary on Naked about the actions of Paulson forcing the banks to accept the terms?
Funny, if this was the real world, any law enforcement agency that could ’sniff’ the slightest hint of ‘drug money’ on their assets could step in and sieze any & every. Up until recently, the ’sieziee’ would have to post a bond of 110% of the seizure in order to oppose the asset forfeiture in court.
“Torches, pitchforks, tar, feathers, financial executive. Some assembly required”.
Actually the Germans are doing something like what Ian suggested: throw the bums out, strict oversight and no bonuses for the new guys. NYT on nationalization says the US is too scared of “socialism” to try anything like that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10…..ze.html?hp
(Sorry, don’t know how to do links on this site.)
This is amazing, from the NYT:
If you don’t take the money and start paying the preferred stock dividend, you hate America!
Clearly no legal way to make it happen – more like Paulson made them an offer they can’t refuse, or alternatively the banks wanted to make it look like they were being forced to take the government’s money.
The flailing about continues:
“Australia unveils $7.4 billion fiscal stimulus plan”
http://www.marketwatch.com/new…..aspx?guid={61C13CA4-B420-435A-8B53-50B02ABD9D94}
He doesn’t have the authority, but Ben does. I mean, seriously, they could nationalize them tomorrow if they choose. “Well, I suppose I can’t make you. But I could nationalize the bank tomorrow, then do it…”
I mean, all these guys are bankrupt, they’re all insolvent if you calculate in the CDSs. And they know it, and Paulson and Ben know it. “We know you’re insolvent, you know you’re insolvent. You will accept our help, or else”.
What outrages me more is that they aren’t kicking them all out, clawing back money and so on, at the same time.
Good point. Let’s hope that it isn’t lost on the next Congress…although, frankly, Congress hasn’t been batting close to a thousand recently.
x Canadian…His mother, Barbara Frum, was a famous journalist in Canada.
x Canadian…He took his oath of American Citizenship on Sept. 11, 2007.
Your link worked…
Handing money to these guys and expecting them to fix the mess they’ve created is a bit like handing dough to the James Gang and asking them to run the Bank.
Its theft elevated to an art form.