Why don't we just set up a "bank tax" and give the proceeds to the banks rather than pretending? Paulson:
Consistent with the legislation, any equity the government purchases through a broadly available equity program would be on a non-voting basis, except with respect to the market standard terms to protect our rights as investors.
So, the banks, whose management of their own business has been so good that they are probably all bankrupt, are going to get a capital injection which:
- gives the government no control - no board members, no votes, no nothing;
- does not force them to change how they do business either in their basic business model or in the sense of forcing them to lend, and therefore
- doesn't necessarily solve the problem, since 350 billion, or whatever, may not be enough to make them solvent. We just don't know. And,
- even if solvent, they still might not lend, because they still won't want to lend for below inflation and they still want to keep money dry so they can buy up assets and other companies on the cheap when fire sales occur
Note also that making money on shares requires the share price to appreciate. That could be a long long time in the future for some of these institutions. A lot will depend on what price Paulson sets, whether he insists on guaranteed dividends, if he gets warrants set at decent prices, and so on.
Trust him?
There is no reason not to insist on Buffett shares, and real control of the companies. Stop screwing around and de-facto or outright nationalize them. If they aren't able or willing to lend they obviously aren't functional banks and maintaining the fiction, and executive salaries, is a very costly illusion.
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Money! More Money!
why do I feel like I’m being robbed?
Because, my friend(s), you are.
Digg it!
“Stop screwing around and de-facto or outright nationalize them.” ABSOLUTELY CORRECT IAN !!!
“Government interventions have consisted of recapitalising banks. These have not worked.”
Meet the new John Q. Public. Ben Dover.
Failed banks should be confiscated by the IRS and assets added to revenue. Then folded into one entity and used to service low income citizens.
Part of bank assets of banks are deposits. Are you suggesting that the IRS seize those?
we should get bailout $$ from the oil companies. We can call it “patriotic sacrifice for the war on terror.”
Please Sir, may I have another.
Yes..insured assets can be settled accordingly.
EPU’d from a couple flights down.
Thanks for the links. I don’t see the powers that be going along with Professor De Grauwe’s analysis. Doing what’s necessary doesn’t seem to appear in their gene pool.
With Paulson, it is always too little too late and applied the wrong way in the wrong places. This should be a surprise to no one. As head of Goldman Sachs, he was one of the prime architects of the current meltdown. He has been Secretary of the Treasury since mid 2006. He did nothing to head off this disaster and after it struck in August 2007 he did as little as he could for over a year. And then he came up with a loony tunes program which gave him $700 billion to play with yet addressed none of the fundamentals underlying the crisis.
The American government needs to assume control of the nation’s banks. Paulson’s latest plan doesn’t come close to doing this. He just isn’t capable of addressing the real problem here, creating it yes, solving it no.
Paulson is money laundering right out in the open! How nice. Barbara Bush did the same thing after Katrina hit. She said, (my words not hers) “I have $30,000 dollars and I want to give it to this charity, but I want the charity to forward the money on to my son’s educational software company! No one will notice! Swear!”.
Spit.
Afraid so, I think old Mr. Risk is just getting started.
Ooops. Brain fart. Deposits are banks’ liabilities, customers’ assets.
So you want the IRS to seize banks’ loans?
Yes!
Will there be stigma insurance to go with my account?
OT - per MSNBC crawl:
Cindy McCain’s half-sister has died from ‘Alzheimer’s Disease’.
So is it *now* true that Cindy is an only child? And didn’t we just see and hear from this person not so very long ago?
And how often does a person in her fifties (presumably) die from “Alzheimer’s”?
Then what?
Somehow I don’t think the IRS has the requisite skills set to manage a loan portfolio.
get in line..lol
If banks borrow short and lend long, where do they get the money to repay the short loan?
OT But a good laugh
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/....._1009.html
I believe there were two half siblings.
Cindy has(had) two half sisters, this is the older one, 74. More here
So still not an only child.
Lou Dobbs just said we’re not going to have a depression.
They were also saying on his show that McCain can’t win and he should stop the crap and try to be a leader for his party and try to do good for his party. Dobbs said how could he do that when there’s a very good chance Dem’s will have a large controll of both congress’ too.
Long-term loans, like mortgages, typically have payments during the year. For mortgages it’s monthly. And different mortgage payment due dates are at different times of the month. So there is a continuous stream of interest payments. As the yield curve is typically upward sloped (meaning short rates are typically lower than long rates), banks profit on the spread.
thanks
ABC News was kind of amazing tonight. It had coverage of the McCain and dutifully reported every slur without comment or fact check. They even mentioned Ayers. And then on to bland reporting of the Obama campaign. Their playing up the negatives of Obama was really quite obvious. It just goes to show how in the bag ABC News remains for the Republicans.
well, you can’t get blood from a stone.
Lou Dobbs probably thinks Barack Obama is an illegal alien and wants him deported.
OK, I knew that. I didn’t think monthly loan payments would cover the amounts I envisioned the banks borrowing.
Well, they won’t if there are a lot of defaults!
Shuster is showing McInsane backpedaling furiously during a townhall, saying Obama’s a decent man, and even took the mic from a lady who called him an Arab…!
CTuttle, I recommended your diary and submitted it to Digg!
I saw that… Mahalo! :D
Washington Week in Review,
Karn Tumulty
Obama’s way ahead
reports polling:
only 9% of Americans are satisfied with the direction the country is going. They’ve asked this question since the seventies and the number has NEVER been this low.
Then they show the clip of McCain saying you don’t have to be skeered of Obama, booed by his supporters btw.
Do two halves still make a whole or is she half dead.
Come clean which is it?
Are you trying to spoil the McInsane/Pailin election.
John’s head may explode… imagine the mess coming out. Yuk. You mess you clean up. I know new rules are confusing but much easier than the old rules.
He could, um, reach across the aisle?
This is what happens when your campaign is using a Barbie to sexually arouse the crowd into a hate-frenzy. McCain had to say something. I’m glad he did, but I’m afraid it’s too late. When he said what he said, the crowd was bullshit.
Borrow short, lend long, roll it over. Banks think there may be a real bout of inflation (it’s one path) and are scared to lend long accept at very high rates right now. What if the Fed goes all Volcker and you’re lending at 10% long and the short term rate of money is higher than 10%?
There’s just a ton of uncertainty out there, and it’s not just about counterparty risk it’s about the economy and about WTF the Feds and Treasury are going to do.
I’ve got that figured out. I was thinking the disparity between what they loaned and what they borrowed was larger than it actually is. Guess I need Banking 101.
Breaking: Troopergate report to be made public. Unanimous vote.
I just dugg it myself CT. Aloha
I saw that. Jaw dropper.
Heh. I got it backwards on my first try about banks assets/liabilites.
Great news. Is marcy on it?
But-but-but-John McCain says he’s the candidate of change!
I agree that it’s literally too late, but, it was a riot to watch the pained expression on his face as he was saying Obama was a decent man…!
The more that is revealed about Cash for Goldman Sachs, the more peculiar it is. The Greatest Thief Ever, Hanky Panky Paulson, appointed Neel Kashkari. Cash-and-Carry is a former Goldman Sachs Paulson crony. He is 35 years old, and got his M.B.A. six years ago. Kos notes that at Treasury he has been working on the problems of bad Mortgages. So far he has been some kind of genius-for the people who created the crisis. This new corruption is just the same as the old corruption of rebuilding Irak.
I know. It was McCain’s only strategy in “winning”, but that has now been squashed. Of course, his supporters will continue the hatred because this is who these people are! Sick. Spit.
Don’t know, but an evil thought just occurred. The vast majority on the panel were Rs. Perhaps the only way they would agree to make it public is if it’s a whitewash. Oy. I hope not.
Excellent!
Here’s the Paulsen secret strategy. Throw trillions down the rathole and inflation will outfrow the shitpile debt, money will be valueless and we can start all over.
I thought they were gonna release that sucker today.
here’s a linky
Washington Week is on and they are showing what they don’t know about the meltdown. Paulson and Bernanke have tried almost everything they could blah, blah, blah. As this post proves and as we have discussed before this simply isn’t true.
Karen Tumulty (sp) points out that Obama is now clearly ahead.
And then there is Glenn Greenwald’s favorite reporter Dan Balz. Balz brings up negativity of McCain campaign, Ayers. Greenwald took it to him about his line both sides do it. It seems at least so far Balz is steering away from this tonight.
Tumulty: McCain is out of options so throwing everything he can at Obama.
Balz: Economy has moved race.
Tumulty: McCain’s negatives are going up faster than Obama’s
Balz: Finally brings up the “everyone does it” but he puts it off on to the McCain campaign complaining that Obama not being held to account for his negativity.
Moderator says Obama ahead 217 to 158 in safe electoral votes and ahead in several “contested” states.
Mahalo, it’s a shame that Shrub’s concession on the timeline for troops in Iraq is drowned out by all the campaign rhetoric…
like I said, you can’t get blood from a stone
If I’m not mistaken, the republics of Alaska don’t care too much for the Palin family at the moment. Before she was even picked for the VP position, the people of Alaska were going after her and her husband on this issue.
Let’s hope it’s a loaded report! Woohoo! *slapping the hands of the people of Alaska*
Thanks.
Perhaps they’ve come to the conclusion that they need her to be gone and are willing to throw her under the bus to save their own skins next election.
Palin sings…
Ahab the Arab SHeiek of the burnin sand…got on his camel named Clyde and took a ride across the desert sands.
The state employees who were instructed not to testify were forced to at the last minute so I expect this pushed things back a little.
Balz is such a flack.
I prefer your interpretation. Just can’t trust any pol to do the right thing in this country anymore.
OT:
Report is out - Palin “abused” her “power”.
From your link Elliott:
Interesting. As soon as it’s released, let’s go to page 97! LOL
David Schuster says McCain is going “Mavericky™” on his own supporters by defending Obama as a decent human being in response to the right wing hate frenzy that his campaign whipped up against Obama. Crowds have booed McCain when he does this.
I can’t believe this but on Washington Week someone asks if a white voter now supports Obama because he lost his job and the whole panel, maybe minus Tumulty, laughs. I guess you can do that when you are sucking on the corporate teat.
The Irakis could overrun the Green Zone tonight and we wouldn’t see it on teebee for another week, if then.
Somehow that made me laugh.
But I have a linky to al Jazeera English TV. So there.
oh, you mean a timeline like McInsane has savaged Obama for supporting?
Or the Israelis could commence their bombing runs on Iran…! ;-)
Never turn yer back on one, or wear Kevlar.
This article is an ‘ouchie’ for the Palins:
http://www.glossynews.com/artm.....4703.shtml
OT:
Palin “unlawfully abused” her “power”
You kiddin’ me?! That would be Live! In living, or dying, colour.
The hatemongering that the McCain campaign has been engaged in increases the chances of an Obama assassination. You can look at this one of two ways. McCain is sincerely trying to dial back the hysteria or he is engaged in some pre-emptive CYA if anything should happen.
“she unlawfully abused her authority in firing the head of the state public safety commission”
Report from Alaska legislators, cited by David Schuster on Countdown
Link?
ian, i’m going to argue with you about this again, because i just don’t get it - and i want to.
it seems to me that the banks aren’t lending because they are afraid of not getting their principle back, not because they are afraid of inflation. in fact, i don’t see how there could be a big risk for inflation - if there are tens of trillions of dollars of CDS that in actual fact have little or no value (lehman’s CDS got less than 10 cents on the dollar at auction today)… then is it even possible to inflate fast enough to counter such a large contraction in the apparent money supply?
what am i missing?
That would make it a landslide for Obama. And 60 D seats (which = 59 considering Lieberman).
I think he’s partially realized the danger and is clueless as what to do.
i guess they’ll hide her (Palin) out now until election day
Banks aren’t lending because they can’t get funding because no one knows the values of the “assets” (mortgage derivatives, etc.) on the banks books.
Schuster suggests Monigan (safety director) may want to file a lawsuit against Palin based on the legislative investigation’s report
I think it was Mo Rep Claire McCaskill that asked at the House Committees hearing on Tues Oct 7, 2008 on the causes and effects of AIG’s bailout.
Rep. McCaskill asked how did AIG have AA (?) rating 3 days before the bailout was announced.
So the question is who is at fault for the dishonest rating, AIG or the Co that rated AIG or both.
Which tells me not to the the co that give the ratings.
my cynical guess is that some of his important supporters sent him a message - dial it back or lose my support.
Ooooh, Alaskan reporter sez Palin have problems respecting borders. Where’s our psychoanalysts?
Hopefully before 11/4.
Oops. Its Palin under the maverick bus! Never know where that girl is next, Lawdy Miss Clawdy…great balls afire. Whole lota shakin goin on.
McCaskill is a U.S. senator from Missouri
Link pending.
Report only on MSNBC (not on Fox or CNN at this time).
Why doesn’t Palin just come out and say she fired Monagen because she is a Maverick™?
yes!
Teddy has the link for the report (pdf) at his diary
Then it decided. She is qualified,
You’re probably right but I still think he’s clueless at this point. The behaviour has been ignored by the campaign until now but the people who want to do this crap are nothing but encouraged. If they say something to these people they’ll get booed by the rest of the crowd. Then what? These morons thought it was cute creating a monster.
exactly my point. they don’t know if their loans are going to a good risk or a bad risk (because they don’t know if the borrower is going under or is still solvent)…. but as the economy tanks, i think it’s worse than that because runs can cause even solvent banks to go under. too much risk that estimated and therefore priced.
and of course, if banks are worried about a run on their own assets their are going to be increasing reserves - and that means less lending.
… or at least that is how i understand it now.
LOL
Council Votes 12-0 To Release Troopergate Report: Palin Abused Her Power
FDL’s on the case
Link for Report:
http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf
‘Xactly, funny how the Moonie rag Washington Times tried to savage Obama yesterday for *gasp* trying to Sway the Iraqis on the Bush Deal… Something that was debunked eons ago…!
Palin link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27105917/
They are saying also “lawful” since he she had “other reasons”.
Please, illegal use of power. Employmnet at will please…it will come out that she came up with FALSE reasons and followed a process to cover up.
I repeat the actual report from Alaska state website.
And note McCain choose someone that could be IN JAIL during the election.
Link for Report:
http://download2.legis.state.ak.us/DOWNLOAD.pdf
You’re not missing anything Selise; the fear factor now is deflation of assets as the dollar becomes stronger against other currencies.
It’s on CNN.com now.
“Abused power, violated no laws.”
but not just US dollars - it looks, to me at least, like a world wide deflation risk.
Thanks for correcting that. Then is wasn’t her but another woman then because the hearing was in the House with Waxman heading it.
Is giving sex to a moose a crime.
Doen’t seem right somehow.
Time to call in the SPCA.
Huh?
Are you saying tgat there is Another Woman? So many. Oy.
So much to know… so little time. Sigh.
as much as i complain about the lameness of congressional hearings - i want to give kudos to waxman and his committee because they have been posting transcripts for their hearings.
so all i had to do was download the pdf from the committee website and do a search on “rating.” perhaps you were thinking of our new representative jackie speier?
from page 213 of the transcript:
And, there may be something else. They may need to hold funds in reserve to cover the CDSs that they sold and that are about to be claimed. (Nobody in this business deserves an AA rating.)
I think I just figured out how this works. I go down to my local financial institution and tell them I want to invest some money for my future.
What this really means is I am LENDING them money to use while I don’t need it, with the understanding (what? no signed promise? not even a handshake?) that they will give me my money back when I am ready to use it myself, and the further hope/assumption that they will, in the course of using the money I HAVE LENT to them, have increased it so that when I need it I will actually receive more than the original sum. Most places, that is how money is borrowed. The borrower (them, not me) pays interest to the lender (ME) for the privilege of using the money.
Now, here’s what actually happened. One day, before I was even thinking about getting my money and its interest back from the folks I loaned it to, they go to the freaking government instead of me, to say they lost all my money and will the government pay them the money.
Sounds nutty. Especially when you consider that I am the government, at least I am where the government gets its money. So the folks who owe ME money don’t even tell me about it, which anyone knows is the minimally honorable thing to do. They go and tell people the world will end if the government (that would be me) doesn’t give them the money they owe me.
You know what? They don’t even intend to use that money to pay me back! Oh no, they want it for — damn, what are they going to do with it? We have laws that prohibit taxing the same income twice, but none that prohibit taking and keeping the money and more after that and without explicit permission.
How can I get a piece of that? Oh, woops, I already gave away my piece, and more after that.