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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Go Out And Shop&#8221; No Longer Holding Consumer Allure</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/</link>
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		<title>By: Jett</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677098</link>
		<dc:creator>Jett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677098</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I just received notice from the IRS that I am entitled to an economic stimulus payment of $1800.00!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Woohoo!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the day after the DOW lot 40% of its value I’m thinking I’d rather the government kept the money and spent it on job creation or welfare for all the folks who are losing their homes and jobs, but what do I know, I’m a raving socialist.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just received notice from the IRS that I am entitled to an economic stimulus payment of $1800.00!</p>
<p>Woohoo!</p>
<p>On the day after the DOW lot 40% of its value I’m thinking I’d rather the government kept the money and spent it on job creation or welfare for all the folks who are losing their homes and jobs, but what do I know, I’m a raving socialist.</p>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677076</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677076</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I live in MI which has the highest unemployment rate of all the states and yes here people are staying home more often, eating out less. I can’t remember the last time I saw the local movie theater half full much less full. People are buying cheaper food and less food. I know people who have cancelled the internet and go to the library to get online. I know a few of families that lost their homes, some remortgaged and some had purchased new homes. I was in a couple of pawn shops with my son this summer and I talked with the owner and he said many pawn shops had went out of business. This shocked me because I assumed when times are tough people bought cheap and the cheapest way is rummage sales, pawn shops and consignment stores and that they would be doing good business. People wanted to sell stuff to pawn shops but there are not enough buyers. New and used cars are not selling here. People want to eat and be warm this winter, but many will not be able to afford both. It gets expremely cold here in winter. Energy prices must come down and if they want what money people have left put in saving accounts then stop taxing our savings accounts and maybe, maybe people will put their money/what money they may have left back in the banks, but many will NEVER put money back into retirement/stock market/mututal funds, etc.., never again. We lost a lot of money 10 years ago with the tech bubble, now we have lost … Many don’t have 10 more years to recoup their losses. I fear it will be a long long time before the markets come back. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Oh and my the way, what’s up with charter cable, I can’t get CNN, CNN Headline, MSNBC or CNBC but I can get Fox. That has been happening allot since last spring.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in MI which has the highest unemployment rate of all the states and yes here people are staying home more often, eating out less. I can’t remember the last time I saw the local movie theater half full much less full. People are buying cheaper food and less food. I know people who have cancelled the internet and go to the library to get online. I know a few of families that lost their homes, some remortgaged and some had purchased new homes. I was in a couple of pawn shops with my son this summer and I talked with the owner and he said many pawn shops had went out of business. This shocked me because I assumed when times are tough people bought cheap and the cheapest way is rummage sales, pawn shops and consignment stores and that they would be doing good business. People wanted to sell stuff to pawn shops but there are not enough buyers. New and used cars are not selling here. People want to eat and be warm this winter, but many will not be able to afford both. It gets expremely cold here in winter. Energy prices must come down and if they want what money people have left put in saving accounts then stop taxing our savings accounts and maybe, maybe people will put their money/what money they may have left back in the banks, but many will NEVER put money back into retirement/stock market/mututal funds, etc.., never again. We lost a lot of money 10 years ago with the tech bubble, now we have lost … Many don’t have 10 more years to recoup their losses. I fear it will be a long long time before the markets come back. </p>
<p>Oh and my the way, what’s up with charter cable, I can’t get CNN, CNN Headline, MSNBC or CNBC but I can get Fox. That has been happening allot since last spring.</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677071</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677071</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The ENTIRE monetary fiat system is based on pulling money out of the Fed’s ass, followed by every single major bank that borrows from the Fed and then lends to others ALSO pulling money out of their asses.  The ENTIRE money supply is pulled out of multiple asses.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ENTIRE monetary fiat system is based on pulling money out of the Fed’s ass, followed by every single major bank that borrows from the Fed and then lends to others ALSO pulling money out of their asses.  The ENTIRE money supply is pulled out of multiple asses.</p>
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		<title>By: STTPinOhio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677062</link>
		<dc:creator>STTPinOhio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677062</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If consumers are the engine that drives the whole shebang, doesn’t increased infrastructure investment, leading to more jobs, money to spend…doesn’t that make sense?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;What am I missing?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nothing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why Congress hasn’t announced and started to implement a massive jobs program around infrastructure projects is way beyond me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We all know it &lt;em&gt;has&lt;/em&gt; to happen, and the jobs can’t be outsourced.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And please, don’t tell me about the money needed; they just pulled $700 billion out of their behinds on a week’s notice.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If consumers are the engine that drives the whole shebang, doesn’t increased infrastructure investment, leading to more jobs, money to spend…doesn’t that make sense?</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>What am I missing?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Nothing.</p>
<p>Why Congress hasn’t announced and started to implement a massive jobs program around infrastructure projects is way beyond me.</p>
<p>We all know it <em>has</em> to happen, and the jobs can’t be outsourced.</p>
<p>And please, don’t tell me about the money needed; they just pulled $700 billion out of their behinds on a week’s notice.</p>
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		<title>By: redX</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677061</link>
		<dc:creator>redX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677061</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And no time to spend the money, no ability to retire (no health care).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nother thread on econ at top now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And no time to spend the money, no ability to retire (no health care).</p>
<p>Nother thread on econ at top now.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677057</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677057</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;But in continental Europe, workers are still treated to long vacations, short working weeks, job guarantees and a host of other benefits that weaken their productivity and will not be financially sustainable.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seems to me what is now arguably financially unsustainable is making all your customers too poor to afford your widgets, regardless of the fact that productivity is still on its way up!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But in continental Europe, workers are still treated to long vacations, short working weeks, job guarantees and a host of other benefits that weaken their productivity and will not be financially sustainable.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Seems to me what is now arguably financially unsustainable is making all your customers too poor to afford your widgets, regardless of the fact that productivity is still on its way up!</p>
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		<title>By: redX</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677053</link>
		<dc:creator>redX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677053</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is also a battle with prices and inflation. However it might really be a problem with the dollar - they must know a run could mean ruin for all; but some countries have to be thinking better to dump the dollars first than last. Ouch, that will be much crying &amp; anger on that day. What sort of planning do you do for a day like that as a country, town, family/person?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So how do you not pay people, but also get them to spend? How do you allow people to own property that was bought at a silly price (does inflation mean that the houses will be cheap in the long run - how do you get companies to pay people more with the fear and unemploymnet (especially if they do not have the money or their business is all inflated “assets”)).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We are all going to be losers and some will be very hard luck losers. Hard workers who to no fault of their own have the last of their life squeezed out of them by terribly hard work for bread crust.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;At the same time as I look around there is so much to do and so much work to do - it seems silly to throw that all away. Maybe it comes down to that people were working for paper “assets” that were so highly “valued” so that a few people could take the real money out (and convert it to other stocks, assets, tbills, currencies (dollar, euro, yen)…that is to say many people are actually working on vapor asset companies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The real terrible thing is I think many older people knew this was not sustainable but thought it was always off in the future. I guess looking back at it the timing could come no other way…just 6 months after the first “boomer” retired.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also a battle with prices and inflation. However it might really be a problem with the dollar &#8211; they must know a run could mean ruin for all; but some countries have to be thinking better to dump the dollars first than last. Ouch, that will be much crying &amp; anger on that day. What sort of planning do you do for a day like that as a country, town, family/person?</p>
<p>So how do you not pay people, but also get them to spend? How do you allow people to own property that was bought at a silly price (does inflation mean that the houses will be cheap in the long run &#8211; how do you get companies to pay people more with the fear and unemploymnet (especially if they do not have the money or their business is all inflated “assets”)).</p>
<p>We are all going to be losers and some will be very hard luck losers. Hard workers who to no fault of their own have the last of their life squeezed out of them by terribly hard work for bread crust.</p>
<p>At the same time as I look around there is so much to do and so much work to do &#8211; it seems silly to throw that all away. Maybe it comes down to that people were working for paper “assets” that were so highly “valued” so that a few people could take the real money out (and convert it to other stocks, assets, tbills, currencies (dollar, euro, yen)…that is to say many people are actually working on vapor asset companies.</p>
<p>The real terrible thing is I think many older people knew this was not sustainable but thought it was always off in the future. I guess looking back at it the timing could come no other way…just 6 months after the first “boomer” retired.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677048</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:11:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677048</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Stirling Newberry is up with a &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/the-panic-in-markets-continues/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;new post&lt;/a&gt;: “The Panic in Markets Continues”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stirling Newberry is up with a <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/the-panic-in-markets-continues/" rel="nofollow">new post</a>: “The Panic in Markets Continues”</p>
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		<title>By: redX</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677040</link>
		<dc:creator>redX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:05:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677040</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Negative Feedback Loop.&lt;br /&gt;
Not good for the planet, not good for an economy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also keep in mind more people will lose their jobs, then these people will also lose their houses (dropping the house price, more bad debt for banks, etc).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Right now its “I am not going to look at my 401k), sadly we will all be crying soon when there is no 401k to look at (for those lucky enough to have one).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;All Fox news and the Republic pary can say is that its poor peoples fault and ACORN.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Negative Feedback Loop.<br />
Not good for the planet, not good for an economy.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind more people will lose their jobs, then these people will also lose their houses (dropping the house price, more bad debt for banks, etc).</p>
<p>Right now its “I am not going to look at my 401k), sadly we will all be crying soon when there is no 401k to look at (for those lucky enough to have one).</p>
<p>All Fox news and the Republic pary can say is that its poor peoples fault and ACORN.</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677039</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 15:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/10/go-out-and-shop-no-longer-holding-consumer-allure/#comment-1677039</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The other day, when Bernanke spoke about the grim nature of the economy, he had the &lt;i&gt;gall&lt;/i&gt; to mention that real wages were down.  Goddamnit to hell I hate these bastards!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Greenspan and Bernanke HATE rising wages.  They ALWAYS call it “inflation” and seek to quash that shit.  The only wages they consider GOOD to increase are CEO salaries.  How DARE that bastard Bernanke pine about how real incomes are stagnant to negative when he and his predecessor are ALL about keeping them down!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other day, when Bernanke spoke about the grim nature of the economy, he had the <i>gall</i> to mention that real wages were down.  Goddamnit to hell I hate these bastards!</p>
<p>Greenspan and Bernanke HATE rising wages.  They ALWAYS call it “inflation” and seek to quash that shit.  The only wages they consider GOOD to increase are CEO salaries.  How DARE that bastard Bernanke pine about how real incomes are stagnant to negative when he and his predecessor are ALL about keeping them down!</p>
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