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	<title>Comments on: Republicans: Good Luck with those Bootstraps</title>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674247</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674247</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My anger, Norske, is quite reserved for the thugs, as your pique of the moment somehow has missed.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the notion of ‘exceptionalism’ is the Trojan Horse that has too warm a welcome in the hearts and thoughts of those whom it ill serves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Beyond that, Norske, my agreement with you is quite total, since the ’struggle’ has been my life’s interest, and I have observed it closely during my lifetime and in my study of history, but it is honest historical recounting that matters, and Howard Zinn, whom I am certain you agree with, has led the way in that regard.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let me offer you a ‘for instance’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While you, no doubt, know of the deception, and deceit which attended the episode in the Gulf of Tonkin, it was only last year that the truth of that sorry destructive decision was made public and, so far as i could tell, sunk from public conscioness without a ripple.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Part of change, is remembering why ‘change’ is necesary, but the other part is the ability to discern who the enemies of democracy and freedom actually are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And one such enemy is internalized in all of us, and that is the willingness to suspend reason and embrace the ‘belief’ of infallibility or omniscience on the part of leaders or the overall thrust of policies, which too often are ’secret’ or whose true purpose is hidden, simply because they are ‘American’. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you are appealing to the heart of the ideas and principles that founded this nation in the hearts of our ancestors, long before the nation even existed or was ‘discovered’, then I agree wholeheartedly that those ‘better angels’ are indeed, what we should be calling on and extolling to all those Americans who are now consumed by doubt and FEAR.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The true promise of this nation, not just of struggle, but of meaningful successes along the way may never be fully realized, but unless we live those ideas and principles, every single day, then they will wither and die.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So democracy reguires trust at it ‘base’, but daily endeavor to manifest its reality.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My anger, Norske, is quite reserved for the thugs, as your pique of the moment somehow has missed.</p>
<p>But the notion of ‘exceptionalism’ is the Trojan Horse that has too warm a welcome in the hearts and thoughts of those whom it ill serves.</p>
<p>Beyond that, Norske, my agreement with you is quite total, since the ’struggle’ has been my life’s interest, and I have observed it closely during my lifetime and in my study of history, but it is honest historical recounting that matters, and Howard Zinn, whom I am certain you agree with, has led the way in that regard.</p>
<p>Let me offer you a ‘for instance’.</p>
<p>While you, no doubt, know of the deception, and deceit which attended the episode in the Gulf of Tonkin, it was only last year that the truth of that sorry destructive decision was made public and, so far as i could tell, sunk from public conscioness without a ripple.</p>
<p>Part of change, is remembering why ‘change’ is necesary, but the other part is the ability to discern who the enemies of democracy and freedom actually are.</p>
<p>And one such enemy is internalized in all of us, and that is the willingness to suspend reason and embrace the ‘belief’ of infallibility or omniscience on the part of leaders or the overall thrust of policies, which too often are ’secret’ or whose true purpose is hidden, simply because they are ‘American’. </p>
<p>If you are appealing to the heart of the ideas and principles that founded this nation in the hearts of our ancestors, long before the nation even existed or was ‘discovered’, then I agree wholeheartedly that those ‘better angels’ are indeed, what we should be calling on and extolling to all those Americans who are now consumed by doubt and FEAR.</p>
<p>The true promise of this nation, not just of struggle, but of meaningful successes along the way may never be fully realized, but unless we live those ideas and principles, every single day, then they will wither and die.</p>
<p>So democracy reguires trust at it ‘base’, but daily endeavor to manifest its reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674246</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674246</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That’s a fine theory you have there Norske, but as far as I remember, what’s happened to our country is the fault of all of us…we elected these boobs!  We let them get away with destroying those ideas and ideals!  They work for us; now’s the time to look forward and fire the bunch of them!  Force them to quit going around the world trying to be the biggest, baddest dog in the pack!  Isn’t that basically what Bartoo is saying?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That’s a fine theory you have there Norske, but as far as I remember, what’s happened to our country is the fault of all of us…we elected these boobs!  We let them get away with destroying those ideas and ideals!  They work for us; now’s the time to look forward and fire the bunch of them!  Force them to quit going around the world trying to be the biggest, baddest dog in the pack!  Isn’t that basically what Bartoo is saying?</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674245</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674245</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Citizen DWBartoo:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think I may have a year or two on you  and I respect your intelligence and your heart so please hear me well…the “America” we live in and struggle for is an IDEA and it is NOT defined by the fascist oligarchy that has grown fat off of the labor and blood of the people of the world. Do not get so tangled up in your anger and frustration that you go down the path that leads to the cliff…as I said, you are too smart to throw the baby out with the bathwater.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen DWBartoo:</p>
<p>I think I may have a year or two on you  and I respect your intelligence and your heart so please hear me well…the “America” we live in and struggle for is an IDEA and it is NOT defined by the fascist oligarchy that has grown fat off of the labor and blood of the people of the world. Do not get so tangled up in your anger and frustration that you go down the path that leads to the cliff…as I said, you are too smart to throw the baby out with the bathwater.</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674244</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674244</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bullshit…and you know it…your politics as articulated shows a distain for what we are all fighting for and that is the America that is defined by the struggle of common people to better their lives and live in peace…be careful because your politics as you speak it now is best reflected in Sartre’s “No Exist”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bullshit…and you know it…your politics as articulated shows a distain for what we are all fighting for and that is the America that is defined by the struggle of common people to better their lives and live in peace…be careful because your politics as you speak it now is best reflected in Sartre’s “No Exist”</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674243</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674243</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Norske, the ‘enemy’ is here, in this nation, and the ‘enemy’ is the attitude that America, as a society, is above all those failings which have destroyed all nations ruled by hubris, arrogance and greed. It is this attitude which the fascists, whom I call out as vigorously as you,  are making use of.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;America is no different from any other nation when it loses its way and depends on force and violence as ‘policy’, rather than reason.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Part of reason is truth.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where, and in what fashion have I departed from the ‘truth’ as we BOTH know it to be?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you do not agree with my assessments, then that is your right, but, it is equally incumbent upon you to reasonably consider that shouting what you ‘believe’ does not make it so or even the only reasonable and thoughtful perpective.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Criricism where critism is due is not unAmerican or destructive to the ideas of America or its people.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The failure to honestly assess and take responsibility on the individual level, as full and complete citizens, for what is done in our names,is precisely what has brought us to this fateful moment, and why, if we do not acknowledge this truth, we might lose our democracy and our children’s future.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Both you and I know that the real cost and the struggle itself (this time, for you are correct that it is an ongoing struggle) has only begun.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wisdom does not reside in any of us, alone, and it is only our collective wisdom, and courage, which MAY allow us to preserve and build upon what most matters in a democracy, and that is trust.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Apparently, you are willfully not hearing what I have said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you persist in your present course of attacking those who do not say precisely what you would like to hear, then you will not attain your desired goals.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which goals, incidently, we share.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are, in essence, saying that those who do not adopt your language and pespective are not only wrong, but traitors.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Norske, that is not a proper tack for one such as yourself, for it diminishes all that you stand for so very well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I appreciate, hear, and respect  all that you say.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As a brother, though ‘blooded’ differently from you, I expect nothing less from you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is as much admonishment as you shall receive from me.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My respect for you remains and I will, always, have your back.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;DW&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Norske, the ‘enemy’ is here, in this nation, and the ‘enemy’ is the attitude that America, as a society, is above all those failings which have destroyed all nations ruled by hubris, arrogance and greed. It is this attitude which the fascists, whom I call out as vigorously as you,  are making use of.</p>
<p>America is no different from any other nation when it loses its way and depends on force and violence as ‘policy’, rather than reason.</p>
<p>Part of reason is truth.</p>
<p>Where, and in what fashion have I departed from the ‘truth’ as we BOTH know it to be?</p>
<p>If you do not agree with my assessments, then that is your right, but, it is equally incumbent upon you to reasonably consider that shouting what you ‘believe’ does not make it so or even the only reasonable and thoughtful perpective.</p>
<p>Criricism where critism is due is not unAmerican or destructive to the ideas of America or its people.</p>
<p>The failure to honestly assess and take responsibility on the individual level, as full and complete citizens, for what is done in our names,is precisely what has brought us to this fateful moment, and why, if we do not acknowledge this truth, we might lose our democracy and our children’s future.</p>
<p>Both you and I know that the real cost and the struggle itself (this time, for you are correct that it is an ongoing struggle) has only begun.</p>
<p>Wisdom does not reside in any of us, alone, and it is only our collective wisdom, and courage, which MAY allow us to preserve and build upon what most matters in a democracy, and that is trust.</p>
<p>Apparently, you are willfully not hearing what I have said.</p>
<p>If you persist in your present course of attacking those who do not say precisely what you would like to hear, then you will not attain your desired goals.</p>
<p>Which goals, incidently, we share.</p>
<p>You are, in essence, saying that those who do not adopt your language and pespective are not only wrong, but traitors.</p>
<p>Norske, that is not a proper tack for one such as yourself, for it diminishes all that you stand for so very well.</p>
<p>I appreciate, hear, and respect  all that you say.</p>
<p>As a brother, though ‘blooded’ differently from you, I expect nothing less from you.</p>
<p>That is as much admonishment as you shall receive from me.</p>
<p>My respect for you remains and I will, always, have your back.</p>
<p>DW</p>
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		<title>By: PraedorAtrebates</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674242</link>
		<dc:creator>PraedorAtrebates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674242</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wrong.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Air Force pilot who thinks he/she is REALLY doing good and doing the right thing while dropping a bomb or 4 on an Afghanistan village is doing nothing of the kind.  It doesn’t matter what that pilot thinks, all that matters is the result and the reaction by those on the ground to that action.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He/she can subsequently say, “Oops, sorry about the wedding party.  I really only wanted to kill Al Qaeda”, does NOT fix things.  The mark is made and it is well nigh beyond redeeming.  Particularly when the fully well-intentioned pilot keeps doing it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It is the actual effect of the acts rather than the hidden intentions of those actually doing the acts that has the effect.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good intentions are meaningless in this regards.  “Oops, my bad” can never make up for the bad.  The POLICY drives the action, the POLICY is NOT to help the actual people (regardless of the actions/beliefs of individual soldiers - of which I am one, by the way) or we would be using local contractors, subcontractors, etc, for development work, we would be giving the local government the money it needs with practically no strings attached except that it be used for infrastructure development and jobs.  Instead, we only give money with tight strings:  use OUR contractors and subcontractors.  NO restrictions on taking profits out of the country.  NO safety nets allowed.  NO universal healthcare.  You MUST privatize your water and sewage.  You MUST favor corporatism over the little people.  You MUST have a Friedmanesque tax policy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The end result is the disaster, regardless of how badly any soldier wants to help the locals with their water issues, etc.  Handing out candy bars and soccer balls doesn’t make a bad overall policy and strategy into a magically good one.  All it does is make the individual good intentions of individual soldiers fall into a black hole of the overarching self-serving US official policy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Virtually NO ONE around the world (except Poland!) looks at the US as the good guy anymore.  Your good intentions, my good intentions, ANY soldier’s or citizen’s good intentions regardless.  The OFFICIAL government policy matters.  It really does.  And it has been fucked up for over 50 years.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong.  </p>
<p>The Air Force pilot who thinks he/she is REALLY doing good and doing the right thing while dropping a bomb or 4 on an Afghanistan village is doing nothing of the kind.  It doesn’t matter what that pilot thinks, all that matters is the result and the reaction by those on the ground to that action.  </p>
<p>He/she can subsequently say, “Oops, sorry about the wedding party.  I really only wanted to kill Al Qaeda”, does NOT fix things.  The mark is made and it is well nigh beyond redeeming.  Particularly when the fully well-intentioned pilot keeps doing it.  </p>
<p>It is the actual effect of the acts rather than the hidden intentions of those actually doing the acts that has the effect.  </p>
<p>Good intentions are meaningless in this regards.  “Oops, my bad” can never make up for the bad.  The POLICY drives the action, the POLICY is NOT to help the actual people (regardless of the actions/beliefs of individual soldiers &#8211; of which I am one, by the way) or we would be using local contractors, subcontractors, etc, for development work, we would be giving the local government the money it needs with practically no strings attached except that it be used for infrastructure development and jobs.  Instead, we only give money with tight strings:  use OUR contractors and subcontractors.  NO restrictions on taking profits out of the country.  NO safety nets allowed.  NO universal healthcare.  You MUST privatize your water and sewage.  You MUST favor corporatism over the little people.  You MUST have a Friedmanesque tax policy.</p>
<p>The end result is the disaster, regardless of how badly any soldier wants to help the locals with their water issues, etc.  Handing out candy bars and soccer balls doesn’t make a bad overall policy and strategy into a magically good one.  All it does is make the individual good intentions of individual soldiers fall into a black hole of the overarching self-serving US official policy.</p>
<p>Virtually NO ONE around the world (except Poland!) looks at the US as the good guy anymore.  Your good intentions, my good intentions, ANY soldier’s or citizen’s good intentions regardless.  The OFFICIAL government policy matters.  It really does.  And it has been fucked up for over 50 years.</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674239</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674239</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Citizen DWBartoo:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Redirect your frustration and anger to the enemy…and the enemy is not “America” but fascism and political nihilsm.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen DWBartoo:</p>
<p>Redirect your frustration and anger to the enemy…and the enemy is not “America” but fascism and political nihilsm.</p>
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		<title>By: NorskeFlamethrower</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674236</link>
		<dc:creator>NorskeFlamethrower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674236</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Citizen PraedorAtrebates:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“I do not question the intensions of the regular guy/gal..However it does not matter what THEIR intensions or beliefs are…”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry Citizen but that is bullshit…America is the IDEA of democracy and the belief in “the struggle” to attain it…when you characterize “America” as the beast you are exposing a fundamental lack of belief in the struggle of all common folks in their efforts to survive and make a difference for their children.  Your ill considered condemnation of this country places you in the company of all those Stalinists and political nihilists who have only their own interests to elevate above those of their common law brothers and sisters.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Citizen PraedorAtrebates:</p>
<p>“I do not question the intensions of the regular guy/gal..However it does not matter what THEIR intensions or beliefs are…”</p>
<p>Sorry Citizen but that is bullshit…America is the IDEA of democracy and the belief in “the struggle” to attain it…when you characterize “America” as the beast you are exposing a fundamental lack of belief in the struggle of all common folks in their efforts to survive and make a difference for their children.  Your ill considered condemnation of this country places you in the company of all those Stalinists and political nihilists who have only their own interests to elevate above those of their common law brothers and sisters.</p>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674234</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674234</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well said, Praedor.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Criticism of ‘policy’ is NOT criticism of ‘the people’ or the true ideas of America.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Such criticism strengthens both.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Criticism of the Military is NOT criticism of the ‘grunts’ or their heartfelt principles.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Such criticism goes to the lack of principle in the mindless use (and abuse) of the military, and elevates the rectitude of the grunts as compared to the ‘expediency’ of the ‘brass’, and the greed of the Military-Congressional-Industrial Complex.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Let blame and culpability fall where it must.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where it is deserved.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, Praedor.</p>
<p>Criticism of ‘policy’ is NOT criticism of ‘the people’ or the true ideas of America.  </p>
<p>Such criticism strengthens both.</p>
<p>Criticism of the Military is NOT criticism of the ‘grunts’ or their heartfelt principles.</p>
<p>Such criticism goes to the lack of principle in the mindless use (and abuse) of the military, and elevates the rectitude of the grunts as compared to the ‘expediency’ of the ‘brass’, and the greed of the Military-Congressional-Industrial Complex.</p>
<p>Let blame and culpability fall where it must.</p>
<p>Where it is deserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674232</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/08/congressional-republicans-feel-the-pinch/#comment-1674232</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Dow almost breaking even for the day.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Dow almost breaking even for the day.</p>
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