What’s the major cause of the nation’s financial crisis? Lies; a river of lies emptied into a sea of mendacity, sucked up into the sky again by a great hurricane of deceit and rained back down upon us in a deluge of prevarication.
Lies are to democracy what Katrina was to New Orleans. They are not just incompatible with self rule, they destroy it. Our intuition of this obvious fact is why we get so frustrated at the repeated lies of George Bush, John McCain and Sarah Palin. It’s why we recoil against the untruths of TV commentators who lie again and again to advance their own ideologies. They lie and they know we know they’re lying. But lies are too often accepted as legitimate moves in our political game, which is not a game but a matter of life, death and freedom. Therein lies a tale.
It was a dry reference made Friday by economist Paul Krugman that reawakened this frog to the fact that the floodwaters of lies are heated up and near to boiling.
In his column, Krugman quoted bond trader and blogger John Jansen, who wrote Thursday that the economic meltdown is "the financial equivalent of the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution." I hunted up Jansen’s blog, and here’s more of what he said:
Markets get overdone and revolutions end in excess. In my opinion, [trouble in the money market] is the financial equivalent of the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. Trust has been destroyed and devalued and it will take a very long time for it to revive itself.
Exactly what revolution is causing the excess today?
I want to say it is not only what Jansen seems to imply and what many others think: the radical anti-government rebellion spearheaded by the economic anarchists of the far right, people like John McCain’s economic advisor, Phil Gramm. Gramm, in 1999, successfully passed a deregulation bill that repealed legal protections in place since the Great Depression, protections intended to keep from happening what has just happened to the American economy.
Certainly, the unapologetically anti-social and greed-besotted Phil Gramms of the world deserve a large share of blame for our economic woes. But they could succeed only in a culture so permeated by lies that, as Herman Melville warned us, the Confidence Man is King.
It is the excesses of the Revolution of the Lie that we suffer from today.
This revolution inverts and perverts the purposes of the conventions of culture and society, from our simple shared rituals and rules of etiquette to macro political structures. Anthropologists and linguists tell us that the development of language greatly enhanced humans’ ability to deceive one another, an ability honed quite skillfully through the ages. Humans invent these social structures, in part, to minimize the impact of lies. They aren’t perfect or incorruptible, just more visible and a little more dependable than forked tongues.
We can see how these structures work by noticing the difference between, say, opening the car door for someone and telling someone over a drink that you always open car doors for others. The former is performed, like all rituals. It is enacted, not claimed. The U.S. Constitution’s system of checks and balances is, of course, a paradigmatic example on the macro scale.
But to the Revolutionaries of the Lie, these safeguards were the accoutrements of an Ancien Régime, interesting only because they are not inviolable, they can be twisted, exploited, or guillotined.
For instance, in the movie Goodfellas, the hit man kindly opens the car door for Tommy DeVito (Joe Pesci), whom he’s about to kill. But he pretends courtesy to keep Tommy from suspecting he’s about to get a bullet in the brain.
Or, in another example, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney place their hands on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution, pretending to defend what they will soon whack.
It is one thing for acquisitive, imperfect humans to lie sometimes to get what they want. Nothing new about that. It is quite another thing to build a culture of lies upon foundations of lies. And that’s what the Revolution of the Lie has tried to do.
The best recent declaration of independence from truth was authored by Bush’s unnamed aide in a quote made famous by journalist Ron Suskind:
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." … "That’s not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality-judiciously, as you will-we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
Thomas Jefferson, author of the nation’s true Declaration of Independence, said this about lying in a 1785 letter to his nephew, Peter Carr:
It is of great importance to set a resolution, not to be shaken, never to tell an untruth. There is no vice so mean, so contemptible; and he who permits himself to tell a lie once, finds it much easier to do it a second and third time, till at length it becomes habitual; he tells lies without attending to it, and truths without the world’s believing him. This falsehood of the tongue leads to that of the heart, and in time depraves all its good dispositions.
Oh, that the nation had taken Jefferson’s advice.
Now, it also has to be acknowledged that not all social conventions are intended to innocently protect members of a community. Many can and often do oppress them, sometimes horribly. Southern blacks were once prohibited by convention from looking their white ‘betters’ in the eye, especially in ‘polite company’. A convention can be seen as a lie when viewed in the context of a greater truth, for instance, the lie of black inferiority seen in the context of Jefferson’s self-evident truth that all are created equal.
Contesting destructive conventions in the service of greater truths is far different from lying or subverting social conventions for malevolent ends.
That brings us to the crux of an American dilemma. We invent ourselves from scratch – in a New World. We wrote our own founding myths. We, not a distant Theseus or Romulus, are the protagonists in these narratives, and we have the freedom not just of characters in folk tales but of authors who tell these tales. We can do and say what we want. Truth, in our heady experiment, can sometimes seem like little more than an impediment to freedom.
Mason "Parson" Weems made up the story about George Washington and the cherry tree. It was all part of a 19th Century strategy to create a nationalistic consciousness in the new nation.
Another way of looking at it: Weems was lying when he glorified Washington as a man who would not tell a lie. That, it seems to me, sums up our problematic relationship to the truth.
In 1776, the very year America declared its independence, Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations, the often misunderstood bible of capitalism. Smith invented the metaphor of the free market’s invisible hand, a homely little conceit that has become (against Smith’s intentions, I think) one of the biggest and most destructive lies in our culture.
Eleanor Courtemanche in her essay, "Invisible Hands and Visionary Narrators: Why the Free Market Is Like A Novel," points out the obvious contradictions inherent in the myth of the invisible hand. Her work can be used to make clear a parallel between the New World’s self-inventing myths and the story of the invisible hand.
Smith’s little metaphor became godlike in the hands of his successors. The invisible hand is the unmoved mover, creating moral ends out of immoral, greedy, self-interested behavior. But Smith says it only works if individuals pursue their self-interest without an interfering selfless thought of the greater good. And the State has only limited knowledge of individual self-interest and the mystery and magic of the invisible hand. It should just stay the hell out of the way. So where does the morality come from?
Courtemanche’s answer is it comes from our imaginations. We act as both omniscient narrators and characters in our own tales. We are our own Parson Weems, creating the lie that we cannot tell a lie. We are characters in and authors of the capitalist novel, and we reassure ourselves that this created capitalist universe of ours is, in the end, moral because we say it is. She writes:
Hence, the perpetual fetishisation of the invisible hand, for without it, the illusion of utopian moral order must be reinterpreted as mere anarchy and greed. In many ways, then, being a subject of capitalism is a lot like being a character in a novel. One feels that something or other is in control – the mysterious ‘they’ of market forces – but also that its authorial location is hard to pin down. At the same time, the message of the free market is that we have our own destiny in our hands, and can write our story ourselves.
The trouble, of course, is that the universe doesn’t lie. Real hurricanes destroy real cities, the globe heats up to the point that life is threatened, no matter what stories we tell ourselves. Unfettered greed can’t produce a moral, life-affirming outcome. The idea is preposterous.
These are the foundations of the Revolution of the Lie: a people disconnected from past traditions find themselves unencumbered by older truths in a new land where they can make up just any damn thing about themselves; an economic fantasy that pretends an ultimate, utopian morality and reinforces tall tales unconnected to the truths of the earth beneath our feet and other flesh-and-blood people with whom we share that earth.
It doesn’t take a lie to persuade us that open, accessible and fair market economies beat feudalism, mercantilism, communism etc. all to hell. But open and accessible doesn’t mean lawless anarchy like we’ve seen in the financial sectors in recent years. Economies need cops just like the streets do.
We can’t get to this simple truth, however, because of the storm of lies blowing in our faces. We brought the American Revolution of the Lie with us into the 20th Century, often called the American Century. In the 21st Century, it’s a global nightmare.
Our nation’s traditions of resistance have long recognized the dilemma. Emerson urged us to "pierce this rotten diction and fasten words again to visible things." In fact, it is this tradition of resistance to the lie that keeps open our possibilities of greatness.
It’s not an invisible hand that does the moral work in a human universe. It’s our hands, it’s mortal flesh and bone. Despite our fantasies, there can be no real freedom until we recognize that fact, until we escape our lies and begin to live in truth with one another.
Emerson’s friend Margaret Fuller said, "I accept the universe," to which a skeptical Thomas Carlyle said, "Gad! She’d better." But seen in the context of our problematic relationship with the truth, Fuller’s comment is profound. Carlyle’s response seems less caustic and more like an important prescription. In fact, we might say to ourselves, "Gad! We’d better."



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Glenn! Can’t wait to read this post, too!
Good morning Glenn!
Now I want to dump some Chinese tea into the Atlantic…but first “where da white women”?
The invisibile hand assures that out of all the possible prices for a commodity on a certain day- there will be a price—that’s it! The price selected by the invisible hand has nothing morally outstanding about it- nor anything socially valuable- it is simply a price….
If suppliers have the power to manipulate- the price will always be higher than it would be otherwise….
There is nothing magic about the “invisible hand”. A dart thrown by a blindfolded dart thrower could also result in “a price”.
Good morning. Had to race from Austin to Houston for a meeting. Found an office. Online now, and by golly doggone, dontcha know we’re all gonna be talking the truth here, eh?
Then, there is no hand…
You betcha!
By da way, I’m all for tall tales, there can be truth in them. And sometimes fiction will reveal human truths that science can’t. Shoulda put that in the piece. We’re great storytellers. I just don’t like unrestrained and destructive fictions about where my food’s coming from, what my daughter’s education will cost, and whether we can afford health care…etc. etc.
Lies are the root of all evil, since they lead to inaccurate perceptions of reality. Accuracy is preferable to ideology in all instances, IMHO. All ideologies are flawed and imperfect and internally inconsistent in some respects. Simple point-by-point accuracy is the only reliable guidepost which can be relied on to prevent us from straying too far from reality. Distortions of reality always yield painful consequences eventually. That is the great moral lesson we are all experiencing right now. Will we learn from our current experience? Gad, we’d better.
Ecactly right. We can tell a story about how the river’s not rising, but sooner or later it’s over our heads and we can’t tell any more stories.
There is, it just has its pinky on the Scales of Justice.
For Palin it is the rain of fibs.
The lies trickled down but not the wealth. Wealth in this reactionary non-dimensional world is dried and stuck at the very top.
Does it have a will? Is it a universal law like gravity? Is it a social construction? Would inhabitants of another planet discover an economic invisible hand? I don’t mean these questions to be flip at all.
There are still a lot of people who think W’s clothes are beautiful
Hey Pups Don’t forget to Digg This Post by Glenn!! The whole Rethuglian mantra is nothing but a pack of lies built on even more lies!
You cannot con reality.
Say it ain’t dat, AZ Matt
The only hand is the social regulations which construct and maintain the market. Without them it collapses into anarchy. The ways we legally construct our markets determines how they work and who benefits. The notion that they are inevitably “fair” in any meaningful sense is simply false. they are only as fair as we force them to be.
Nope. You can’t.
Ever since Alexander Hamilton the Royalists (or those who protect their own DNA above all others) have been trying to enslave the rest of the population. America was a threat because everyone was sovereign on their own kingdom — even if it was a quarter-acre kingdom.
But finance enslaves, indentures, creates subclasses and destroys freedom. Now, we are even more enslaved — unless we deny their system. The test is can we be open and honest and tell the truth about what happened. And we must change our behavior.
Now I am not a Christian in any stretch of current imagination, but I have been reading the bible to be able to understand past messages about the beast we face. In Matthew 12:29, Jesus says “Or how else can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.”
So when will these professed followers of Jesus start realizing that Bush has bound them and spoiled their house? They don’t and won’t and can’t, because their house has been spoiled, the waters boiling, and the frogs are leaving the planet.
The American Revolution is on the verge of being defeated.
Naw, it is more sleight of hand used by the folks who are the puppetmasters and put their puppets in front of us to tell us what to believe. Human nature being what it is we believe the crap because it comforts us.
He has none.
I’m with you now. I’m going to invent the visible foot and kick them in the ass with it.
It was only started, and never finished, and that troubled Adams, Jefferson, Madison and others. Even though they leaned toward the aristocratic, they saw the trouble in America’s future, tried to guard against it, and, in part, were subverted by the cons of Hamilton and others.
it’s such a clusterfuck cuz by the time even the stupidest know it’s all lies it’s too late because the country is bankrupt and or under military control
The “hand,” to the extent that it exists as a viable concept, can only be expressed in markets as “price.” Price, put simply, expresses the consensus appraisal of all available information at a given moment by those who are actually making market moves at that moment. As such, it has a certain value as guidance to reality that should not be diminished entirely, but that should also not be exalted overmuch, as even large groups of thoughtful people can be perceiving the big picture inaccurately, and such perceptions can persist over time because they occur in an overall matrix of events and beliefs that nurture misperception. All prices are however,in their essence, a comparison based on the perceived relative value of other, similar goods. When that comparison becomes too clearly illogical, a correction inevitably occurs to bring the relative values back into logical alignment, that is, back into conformance with objective reality. A sloppy proces rather than a precise one, but still one which is inexorable over time.
Fascinating piece Glenn. But part at least of the problem is that so many of the people who performed this financial gerrybuilding believed in what they were doing. They didn’t lie. Many of them, a while back, actually believed in trickle down,for instance. They thought it would all work.
I recall in the mid eighties people I was dealing with from my place in an engineering company started talking about “financial engineering”.
I got scared. My fear was if you build a bad part in an aeroplane the plane duly crashes. You learn lessons not only about that plane, but about what generally does not work. I thought then that there was no way of checking whether complex financial engineering really worked because, basically, there were no laws of physics and metalllurgy and such to show up the failings of men, only economics, which can always be distorted to suggest failure is merely reduced success or not part of a pattern. I feared that there would in due course be the equivalent of bad aircraft parts all through the system and, because money as such is not tangible, these failures would hide away, waiting for enough of them to break to cause a planecrash. It’s taken longer than I expected and because it has taken longer we have further to fall.
You have gotten to the bottom of the “problem”. The Western Institutions that make up our civilization assume that we operate truthfully. (defining “Truth” may prove evasive.)
” But open and accessible doesn’t mean lawless anarchy like we’ve seen in the financial sectors in recent years. Economies need cops just like the streets do.”
What is it that the anachist object to in our system? Once that is clear we mat make some progress toward a basis for trust in the markets.
The US economy is based on profits. Truth has as little as possible to do with the presenr “Corporate Culture”. “You cannot serve two masters”.
When the CEO states the value of his companies assests he has a tool box of deciet that he/she may utilise to appear stronger than it is. One is delay and restating in the next report.
Creative financial instruments are another tool of deception. Enron in offshoring and using “creative” accounting bilked California out of billions.
Accountability: if SEC is it then Christiopher Cox should have been charged for malfeasanse in office…unless of course the buck stops at Bush.
You are, of course, right that many people aren’t lying, their worldviews are simply different. That’s a subject I’ve explored in depth in my work with George Lakoff. This piece, though, is just about the liars, and about how we Americans might be a bit more unmoored from the truth than some because of our unique history. Untethered, distortions of realities can more easily turn into worldviews — as Lakoff points out, worldviews hardwired in the brain.
Most all of what you say is made possible by the invented belief in a godlike moral free market, one unconnected from what we actually do to one another.
It’s not too late. Think Nelson Mandela. Or Vaclav Havel. Or Martin Luther King.
The quote from Bush’s unnamed aide is absurd on its face and chilling because the person who spoke those words was in a position of power and believed what he was saying. The statement is bereft of wisdom and, to me it expresses the Bush administration’s selfishness, arrogance, and pride perfectly. They are legends in their own minds and they conferred god-like powers on themselves secure in the beliefs that they were smarter than everyone else and could not fail.
With the whole world watching, the forces of mother nature swirled up in the form of a vengeful storm that we mortals named Katrina which, like Godzilla in a Japanese monster movie, laid waste to their pretensions. Now, the people of the lie run from each other seeking shelter, but there is no place to hide from what they wrought.
History will judge them harshly and they deserve it because they earned it.
Love the photo BTW.
Many Americans are more willing to believe the lie than the truth. The truth may set one free but for others it scares the shit out of them. American’s would rather believe the lie of American exceptionalism than face the truth that the U.S. is a nation in decline, destined to be ruled by and for the plutocracy. Everyone else’s existence is to serve the master. American’s have allowed themselves to become slaves.
In a REAL market,of course, there is rarely “a price”.
Go to a farmer’s market and buy ten pounds of potatoes. You will find five or ten different prices- and what you pay depends on how you haggle.
Smith’s stuff works only in formal markets where there is but one price- like porkbellies in Chicago…
Adam, not me…
Maybe there’s something I’m not seeing. It appears to me that we discovered a truth beginning in 1933, that we can, to a degree, regulate our own economic environment. Keynes, Galbraith, and the U.S. economy demonstrated that we didn’t have to rely totally on any magic hand and could successfully manipulate the fingers. It seems to me that, only due to the success of a mixed economy did we become susceptible to the old laissez faire idea that government was the enemy and that it took from the deserving to give to the undeserving. I never understood why liberals never seemed to fight against the re-emergence of Gilded Age economics, beginning in the 1980’s.
Regulation allows markets to function. Markets are built on trust and that trust comes directly from regulations which penalize deceit. By dismantling the regulatory framework over the past 30 years, the Republicans have been systematically destroying the very markets they profess to love. Of course, as the current bailout illustrates, they only love markets when they profit from them.
On a related note, market models are based in part on an assumption of perfect and equal knowledge. That is, both buyers and sellers are at least generally aware of the costs, total supply, and total demand for various commodities. That was to some extent true in the 18th century and may still be true for some commercial (business to business) transactions. It is emphatically not true for retail transactions. Most consumers have no idea or reasonable way to learn the actual costs and market values of the various products they but. This couples with the second major assumption of the models, which is a very large number of both suppliers and buyers. With small numbers of either, there is less competition and “magic” of the market breaks down. Basically, members of the smaller group are more likely to act together in ways that mutually enhance their position (this does not imply active collusion).
Me, neither, exept a good many of the 1) started to make a lot of money; 2)became neo-liberals following along behind conservatives picking up crumbs. If they barked too loud they were afraid they’d be shooed away.
Well put. Simple to understand and, the absolute truth. Thank you.
Blue Texan up with “In Line With New McCain Campaign Strategy, Heather Wilson Smears Obama As Unpatriotic”
The line is that a lie can travel around the world before someone can express the truth….. creating their own reality….. by perverting reporting mechanism… or stop reporting something…. there is either a vacuum where they can spill what crap or make sh*t up…… or by changing what a report pulls it doesn’t tell us anything…
Like BushCo stopping to report numbers of Abortions….. where with Clinton they could prove that their policies made them drop……. now the Repugs can just make stuff up…… OR unemployment……. WHY are we not measuring the number of able bodied Americans vs the number who are actually working? Why are they not measuring those who are under employed vs employed in their field?
It is Liar by stats……
I always get upset when I know that there are folks that are not counted because, although they still don’t have jobs, their unemployment benefits have run out so they have fallen through the cracks of the system! In fact, I’ve been there, done that!
If I remember there were some other things going on like flag burning liberals etc. The rethugs wrapped themselves in the flag and the demonization of the left was underway.
So, what happens in an economy when people don’t trust any longer? Do people come up with other means of exchange?
“The Investor” is the one trust is seeking, however trust is initiated it is to entice the investors into the “Game”. Bushco/necons have been creating an environment where an advantage may be created for the “Markets over the “Investors”. In other words they set up a Sting lke the Paul Newman Robert Reford movie. Main street versus Wall street in an adversarial position. Bushco destroyed the tools of the freemarket the banking system. It was premeditated by conservative think tanks and they are fine with a depression. Look what the Chicago Boys did with South and Cetral American economies (Shock Doctrine.) They used military force as well and are set to dop so against US citizens. By any other name it is fasicism when the corporations take control of government as in this bailour.
Buschco/NeoCONS” took control of regulation and were then in a position to empty the treasury so “bad government could not spend it” and bilked world investors by falsefying values. Bush is the Chief Thief. Many criminals have justified ratioanlized their illegal actions…the devil made me do it. Jim Baker sobbing he didn’t mean to bilk the old folks out of their retirements. Keating unapologetically foisting junk bonds on his unsuspecting S&L investors. Then it was dubbed a credit crisis. Slick huh.
Excellent comment; couldn’t have said it better.
Yeah, the line that I always found most descriptive of that whole junk bond thing, wherein they sold the junk bonds in the hall of an FDIC protected bank, was where the salespeople were told that their target markets are, “The meek, the weak, and the ignorant!” He was such a nice man, or so I’ve been told!
Economic meltdowns like are happening right now in the financial sector are what happens. You limit your transactions to people you know and trust, which undercuts the primary purpose of markets. The latter exist primarily to enable reasonably efficient transactions between strangers. Markets do not really exist in face-to-face societies where everyone knows everyone else.
Levels of doubt can track with sales volumes. Last week investord pulled out of areas where they did not trust. Like snake oil salesmen, investment bankers like Paulsen have misrepresnted the value of their product. Sadly we have purchased and consummed the product. Now we have given them more money to line their vaults with. The problem was not addressed as evidenced by the markets drop after the bailout bill was signed. It did not and cannit create trust for the rot is the shitpile maybe $62 Trillion worth.
Excellent! Glenn.
So-called political “dirty tricks” are also NOT innocent ‘fun’ but strike directly at the heart of Democracy, they amount to treason against the very concept of Democracy which MUST depend upon the fundamental trust that all participants agree to certain basic, and necessary, understandings and behaviors.
How long did it take before people, generally, and even the punditry, acknowledged the we were ‘lied’ into war?
Bush lied.
Cheney lied.
Powell and many, many others lied.
And what is the consequence?
Lies, lies, and damned lies.
Thus dies democracy.
Bush has a lower rating than Nixon at 22%.
78% don’t approve of Bush’s actions.
It is clear that Americans and global citizens see the reults of his neocan policies as disaterous much like the Tsumanis and Hurricanes. He has destroted the “Goose that layed the Golden Egg.”
He knew better…ignorance is not an excuse under the laws eyes in ant case. Did he have mercy? “Blessewd are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy”
“During Bush’s six years as governor 150 men and two women were executed in Texas,” Berlow reports in the Atlantic, “a record unmatched by any other governor in modern American history.”
Every once in a while I land on a post so full of insight and truth that I’m tempted to print it out and hang it on a wall where I can review it for a week or two and let the ideas gently sink into my mind.
This is one such post, as are many of the thoughtful comments.
This really is extraordinary, and I thank you.
I sometimes wonder whether some of the delusion was accelerated in an age when we developed ‘imaging technologies’ — color correction, film editing, etc all seemed at some levels to drive a delusional sense that things could always be controlled and fixed to match desire. That all that mattered was ‘marketing’, which has always been the forte of the GOP.
It’s a strange modern twist to Narsissus’ bending over the well in self-admiration.
I have a mental image of Karl Rove sucked up inside a copy of Photoshop, madly re-colorizing GWBush for each new audience, or each new ‘issue’, as if all that mattered was the Appearance of Truthiness. Political ‘analysts’ became essentially teevee critics, and the focus turned to ‘how well did they do’, rather than ‘WHAT are they capable of achieving, and how will they go about it?’
We live in a time of illusion, but I think it’s coming to an ugly end.
We can’t afford those illusions any longer.
I don’t view that as necessarily bad; IMHO, it is long, long overdue.
The statement “we create our own reality” is at the core of the dilemma. “Our own reality” is a statement of a dogma. Consider the two following statement:
1. Scientists change the hypothesis to agree with the facts.
2. Believers change the facts to agree with the dogma.
There is NO convincing believers. None. They have decided on their dogma, and will not listen to “facts” that contradict their beliefs. Such “facts” are heresy. Heresies get suppressed, violently.
How does one have a dialog with those whom have already decided?
Welcome to the new Civil War, because there is no healing this divide.
speaking of not conning reality….
why not include the repeated lies of barak obama and joe biden?
this, synoia, i submit is total bullshit. and i offer myself as exhibit number 1.
just because a person is a “believer” one day does not mean they will always be a “believer”
Truth versus lies. Tie one hand behind your back and bing a knife to a gun fight. The retirement funds of hard working Americans were destroyed or damaged. Trust is based on a fiduciary responsibility.
The fiduciary duty is a legal relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary or trustee and a principal or beneficiary.
When one takes the oath of office you have taken a feduciay responsibility to the citizens. When you are a licenced broker you have taken a feduciay responsibility to the investor that you have not misrepresented what they are buying from you.
Bush is “The Chief Thief”. The destruction of another helpless country…cowardice.
The destruction of our ability to be a world leader.
The destruction of the world markets.
The destruction or great harm to our owm American economy.
All are an abrogation of solemn fiduciary duties.
Destruction of our inaliable rights.
Destruction of our justice system.
There are many accomplices in these crimes against humanity…torture, rendition (kidnapping) and causing hundreds of thousands of deaths. Destruction of our inaliable rights…habeaous Corpus, right to privacy spying on us by data mining. The list of over reaching our laws is long.
glenn – i hope you see my comments here in epu land. for a “reality based community” we have a long way to go (myself included) and i don’t think you’re helping with a post like this that blames our current situation solely on the lies of republicans.
for example – you discuss gramm’s role in banking deregulation. but you don’t mention rubin or clinton. why not? i hope it’s because you don’t know about it and not because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
quoting again someone you know well:
I would generally agree with synoia, but that is not to say that believers can never be converted. That is, the conversion does not normally occur through rational debate (which I take to be synoia’s point). Rather it normally occurs through an epiphany based on personal experience. In this case for instance, a Republican forced into bankruptcy by a health emergency or someone whose child/spouse/parent was killed in Iraq. Those who can be convinced by reason have at this point already converted. The remainder cannot be so convinced.
DrDick – have any data to back that up? you’re not one to make such sweeping assertions without supporting evidence. and i’m especially surprised that you ignore my contrary experience without providing any reason to do so.
i’m not discounting the effect an epiphany can have, but in my experience reason plays a very strong role as well – and continues to do so.
First, I do not discount your personal experience or others like it. My statement says “normally”, not “always”. There actually is a fair bit of research on “true believers” which supports my point. Likewise, this latter group (the 22%ers) are the only ones to whom my remark (and I think synoia’s) applies. I explicitly recognized that some conservatives could be swayed by reason, but that those who are left at this point are apparently oblivious to either reason or reality. You obviously converted much earlier in the process and are by definition swayed by both of those.
not just me. i have also made inroad with some true believers too. but here’s the thing – it is never ever during a conversation. that, i don’t think, has ever happened to me. what has happened, is that i push hard during a relatively short period of time and then back off. only to hear my own words from the person several months later. once even to try and convince someone else!
my point is that, i would not be surprised, if looking only at short term results one can miss the changes that do occur. it’s just that big changes in world view are usually accompanied by lots of stress and new world views take time to consolidate.
i have no research to back this up – just personal experience.
btw – i’m ok with the use of “normally” – it’s the statements like “Those who can be convinced by reason have at this point already converted. The remainder cannot be so convinced.” and “There is NO convincing believers.” that i object to.
You also have the advantage of being a former believer. Hearing it from you can have a triggering effect for that personal epiphany I mentioned (as you note there is a delay). Usually these result from either mounting cognitive dissonance or from a profound blow to the worldview. I strongly suspect that I would have no effect on them at all, even if I presented exactly the same arguments.
that’s a good point – when the person is a christian fundamentalist and know’s my history (pretty fundamentalist church teachings – that i bought without much reflection until my late 20’s), it has helped. but there have been other cases where my history was not so relevant. there, i think what has helped is that i try like hell to judge Ds and Rs as well as liberal and conservative policies according to the same standard. it probably helps that i can say, in all honesty, that i despise bill clinton. even if it’s for completely different reasons than the ones conservatives have.
so, i’d think that the arguments coming from you would have less effect – but not no effect.
otoh, the kind of arguments that we use here – at least this year – where we condemn an R for something and then don’t mention that the Ds were involved too…. that, i expect, to provoke a reactionary response that will make more enemies than converts.
but again, only personal experience – no controlled studies.
You are very kind. Thanks for the compliments. Yes, we do live in a time of illusion. Many observers — Walter Lippman, Theodore Ardono, Walter Benjamin — saw this very early on, with the 20th century creation of mass audiences. You are right to say it was accelerated by communications technologies. It’s quite interesting that an interactive medium where the audience is active and not just passive seems to be accelerating a change of some kind. We can hope it’s a positive return to the reality based community.
I wrote a whole book about the structural betrayals in our political practices — The Politics of Deceit. There’s a little blame to place everywhere.
But, the truth is that those of a more authoritarian bent seem much more likely to lie to get or maintain authority. Progressives have to. But in no way is it equivalent, and it wouldn’t be fair and balanced to get in the tire swing and present it that way.
I certainly agree we must demand the truth from our own candidates. And we most support those candidates who appear to us to have more respect for the truth. I don’t believe that’s even a close call this election. Not by a mile.
But vigilance is always called for, and I respect your view.
Glenn – I just have to say – what a piece!
Thank you.
newtonusr, thanks so much. Feel free on this piece and others to offer any criticisms or additional insights. It’s the interaction that just might be nudging the world toward a better place.
In commenting on Economics I think above all people should understand one thing:
Most of economics are theories or models and they are based on assumptions.
Thus the theories and models are only as good as the assumptions. Many times they are very helpful and the assumptions are good, other times, not so much.
Still other times they miss the mark completely because they fail to take “other” things into account. What type of other things?
Vanity, socital differences, changing societies, stubbornness, vanity, stigma etc. The list could go on and on. The lesson is that even the good theories are often times just that.
Even the good theories don’t tell you what will happen in real life. It is like the law of unintended consequences.
Kind of like all these folks that took out loans they couldn’t afford. Well it was not in their self interest to take out those loans but they did it anyway. Why? A variety of reasons. Ignorance, greed, bandwagon, etc.