“x” claims to have contributed to Donna’s campaign. I call bullshit. Why won’t “x” say, how much? How many times? Is “x” providing financial support to FDL? The absence of a response from “x” to THOSE questions certainly reinforces my serious concerns.

We’ve had this discussion before. If you think starting a third party can have more impact; than electing more and better Democrats, please by all means share some evidence.

The Black Caucus ISN’T going to follow a third party.

The Unions AREN’T going to follow a third party.

Absent those two groups, the legacy media would REALLY ignore liberals. Feingold got killed in Wisconsin over FISA and the legacy media in WI barely mentioned he voted against the bailout.

Liberals effectively already are a third party, within the Democratic party. It’s the ONLY way to get any leverage at all. Donna Edwards is one of a very few milestones of success that liberals have had. We’re still in Iraq. We’re still in Afghanistan. The DoD’s budget isn’t getting any smaller.

IMHO, liberals are the political/moral descendants of abolitionists. The FEDERAL Fugitive Slave act of 1850 leveraged the power of the FEDERAL government against the slaves. The Confederacy and “Big Cotton,” were never about “states right” anymore than the neocons are really interested in “original intent.” Abolitionists got nothing done in the US until effing SOUTH CAROLINA fired on Ft. Sumpter. Big Cotton overplayed its hand and Lincoln was masterful in turning that into a violent and legal end to slavery.

As you already know, I have deep respect for the work you do for this community. I know you pounded the pavement for Lamont in CT. Ned lost. JoLie won. Liberals have to be willing to compromise in order to get stuff done. Native American tribes lost, precisely, because they were unable to unite against European American genocide.

I cannot think of many people in Congress, who mean more to the ENTIRE liberal agenda than Donna Edwards. For gosh sakes, she’s in Maryland, Steny Hoyer’s state. Steny wants to replace her with an Al Wynn. She’s already ripped Obama. You saw what Obama did to Regina Thomas in GA. All reckless criticism from liberals does is drive incumbent liberals into the arms of Steny Hoyer and other Vichy Dems. I have no doubt Steny has some one faxing this thread to Donna along with a personal note. “See Donna, I told you those limousine liberals would abandon you the first chance they got,” signed, “Steny.”

After what happened to Regina Thomas, and the FISA vote, how in the name of reality do you expect Edwards on a SECOND bailout vote to cross Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and Hoyer? As you documented so well, Liberals got next to no votes on FISA. If Donna wants to stay in office and help her dirt poor district, why should she stay loyal to liberals, who show zero loyalty to her? Sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good.

Also, on the bailout, we need liberals in Congress, like Donna, to audit how Paulson spends the $700 billion. By law we can’t stop him from selecting a price, but Congress can provide sunlight and there’s a lot of interest from around the political spectrum. That can get leaked into the legacy media and they can help bring public scruting on Paulson to adhere to liberal models of valuating the debt.

Sure Obama/Biden is not as progressive as we want. But with sustained, respectful dialogue, pressure, more pressure, and sustained support – I think we can get a lot more done and push them (and Congress) further to the left.

Un-electing the Blue Dog caucus, and people like Pelosi will help as well – sends a message that the PEOPLE are in charge! Actually, even a really good primary challenge will send this message to a lot of people.

Anyway, thanks again for excellent ideas. That is the biggest problem I see right now – lots of people complaining – not many coming up with solutions.

“I just launched this pledge with a group of people, some of whom can be publicly identified right now and some of whom can’t.”

Really! Why not? Too much heat from the government?

It makes me nervous.

The Habeas and 4th amendment are critical and crystal clear.

The other (bailout) is murky and scaring everyone around the whole world. To tell the truth, I don’t think anyone thinks they have a definitive alswer
That’s all. ACK!!!!!

Y’know something, that last, the fact that the ginormous bailout was required, and everything all around the world is in turmoil because of the good old US of A’s mess, I think, proves beyond any possible doubt that the Republicants are dead wrong, totally flat lined, out cold, off the edge, with their song and dance all these past several years about getting rid of regulation and letting the economy run on “its” own whims.

Result of all their insistance upon forced marches to deregulation left us with pure and simple GREED and lust for power as the biggest forces in the world.

Congrats to the Repugnikans. They broke all the toys. Now what?

I dunno. I am not an economist.

Mebbe start by getting Obama and Biden elected, plus every other Dem. who can still push a button. Then start approaching people like Dodd, and ask them, “What were you thinking. How can we help. Where do we start.
Pardon, but we’re not leaving until you talk to us, work with us, and start working to fix our broken country. We can’t live like this. Our children and theirs can’t live like this.”

Bravo!

We’re all flying in a wind-tunnel here, and there are leaks and cross-currents in every bit of this stuff.

You just got caught by a stray eddy.

What I want to laser in on is the powerful ones, Dodd and people like that, especially.

If such people have the right backing, I think some of them would LIKE to do the right thing. I mean, look how many of us wanted him to run for Pres., and then changed our minds, figuring he’d be so fantastic in Senate leadership.

Do people here, now, think that feeling at the Lake has just evaporated overnight? (and NO. I do not want to exclude those who are not logged on at this particular moment).

Are we willing to set egos aside and to work together to try to figure out just what forces were at play that made Dodd do what he did? How are we willing to consider him in the future? Will his behavior and stances on issues be influenced to ease over to a more progressive stance once Obama/Biden take office?

Yes, that last was an unfair bombshell of a question. For the sake of trying to figure who needs a hand up, a poke in the rear, a thanks (a rare opportunity, apparently), for the sake of figuring out out these pressures and their effects on leadership behavior starting in 2009, I wonder if we shouldn’t simple assume that Obama/Biden will win. (If mcsameapalling win, we’re literally lobsters in the steaming pot any way, so why consider that as part of this particular discussion? Beats me.)

Onward toward loonyville a la Adie. Now what? You’ve got Obama/Biden What do people think will happen? What SHOULD happen?

#1.Protect them FGS!
(No, I’m not joking. I’m scared witless about what some of those idiots out there might try)
I assume O/B will handle their own protection. Right? Hopefully some of the people protecting them right now have been vetted extremely well, etc. They surely look more present and serious then they did not too long ago. That makes me feel a little better. Anyway the actual protection is being handled by others, not us. Of course
BUT: One thing we could do now as well as after the election is keep track of “hate” blogs. Maybe some of you are already doing that. I know very little of them. But I do get the distinct feeling that the mall kin and rum limbo spew vile stiff that feeds the hate machine.
Maybe more pressure could be brought to bear on them. Just a passing thot. We certainly don’t want to stir up a trollywaah. So I would think it best that we watch the beasties, but don’t poke them into action. Report particularly troubling activity somehow so O/B people can be aware and track such activity in an official way, if they feel it necessary.
We could start that kind of thing right now.

2. Help counter political attacks on O/B and their aims.
Again, this is something that could start immediately and rev up from what we’ve been doing. More letters to editor calling out unfair attacks from M/P campain, rover, spewter, junior,their minions – all those winger-bot hate n’ bait tossers. More campaign backup & “grunt” work for the goodguys (both before and after the election). More money where you see it’s needed, if you can (sigh!). In-kind donations, talking to family, neighbors. Around us the hamsters who do most of the work are urging people to vote EARLY if it’s at ALL possible in your area. Make sure people know that, where, when, how.
BIGGIE: Make sure to have Dem. candidate lists from your area WITH you always. Be ready always to tell people which judge candidates are progressive-leaning. Push the idea of voting D. throughout the whole ballot. If the word Progressive bothers anyone, use Dem. instead. Just know that the more Dems we get in there, the more safe their majority and ability to lead will be.
Emphasize the hammerlock the Rs have had on Congress. It’s killing the little guys all across the country. To help yourself and your neighbors, you need to remove that hammerlock grip of the R’s.

3. A lot of you here at the Lake are incredibly gifted, well-trained in your fields, and articulate. Wouldn’t it be nice to send groups of reasonable, deeply concerned but not shouting-mad people with special talents in to approach Sen. Dodd and others you admire. Pick their brains and try to see what they need to help them succeed. Throw them a compliment and shake their hands and see if you, as a concerned Progressive, can help. Dodd, Brown, Kucinich, Frank, others you all can name just might respond more positively than you think. You give the good ones respect but have your facts and needs in order. If you are well prepared, I am guessing you’ll be listened to. Follow up with them. Stay in contact, respectful but firm and deeply concerned.

I’ve scribbled a mountain here, where there’s probably just a molehill. But I really do think WE can move the mountains if we’re careful and savvy and respectful. Don’t cry in their laps. Stop just a little short of that, but let them know you think our country is broken and you want to help them restore it.

don’t just babble babble babble like me.
(apologies: not even going to proof-read)

at least i hope the babble starts some smarter brains a’perking

We CAN enter into dialogue with those who are now afraid they should be building a fortress between them and the people. We’d jolly well better try.