
[Welcome Paul Street and Glen Ford, Director, Black Agenda Report. Please stay on topic, or continue your discussion on the previous thread. Thanks, Bev]
Barack Obama and the Future of American Politics
Radical writer, scholar and activist Paul Street illuminates the political landscape with a comprehensive and compelling examination of the two (or more) Barack Obamas: “the ‘revolutionary outsider’ and ‘entirely new breed of candidate’ he has been portrayed as in the dominant corporate media,” and the “shrewd politician who would not likely challenge the dominant sociopolitical order in any meaningful way unless compelled to do so by a significant social and political movement.”
Street has fashioned his indispensable deconstruction of the Obama phenomenon on the gallop, as it were, having spent six years racing alongside and projecting the future moves of a quintessentially market-shaped and driven candidacy. Completed in June, the volume confirms the predictive value of Street’s analysis: Obama’s near-instantaneous embrace of the core elements of Henry Paulson’s Wall Street bailout, punctuated with an astonishing offer to retain the Bush Treasury Secretary in an Obama administration, makes complete sense when one understands the Illinois Senator’s reflexive adherence to corporate parameters of thought and action, as Street amply documents.
A white guy who served for years as research director for the “corporate-dominated” Chicago Urban League, much of Street’s previous scholarly work examines the effects of entrenched, institutional racism in the same Chicago precincts that were the springboards for Obama’s astounding (and mightily assisted) leap to the national stage. No utopian, Street describes himself as “a real-time progressive, seeking substantive change – ‘reform’ – within the ‘really existing’ U.S. sociopolitical order.” Street’s book methodically and convincing argues that, on issues of race, war and peace, Obama’s candidacy represents “an almost perfect-storm epitome of a deeper capitalist political culture: the inherent conflict between the popular democratic promise and authoritarian, corporate-imperial reality.”
Appropriately, Street begins with a chapter titled “Obama’s Dollar Value,” detailing the would-be-president’s fealty to big business and bigger finance capital, in deed if not always in word. Of particular note in the current financial crisis is Obama’s initial response to the growing subprime mortgage debacle. Planting himself to the right of Senators John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, Obama rejected any form of freeze on interest rates or moratorium on foreclosures, endorsing only a meager tax credit for homeowners while pontificating on the “moral responsibility” of households caught in the corporate vise. “Obama staked out his usual position in the neoliberal middle,” writes Street, “embracing some increased federal regulation but seeking to create ‘incentives for leaders’ to restructure mortgages without giving that job to government.”
With a lock on the African American vote that grew rock-solid after his victory in pale Iowa in January assured Black voters Obama’s candidacy was actually “viable,” Obama moved decisively with an appeal to so-called Reagan Democrats. Speaking to editors of the Reno Gazette, he congratulated the deceased reactionary on “having changed the trajectory of America…. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excess of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating.”
Obama’s Reagan-friendly posture was nothing new. Street reports the candidate’s 2006 conversation with Time magazine’s Joe Klein, in which Obama declared, “this country is ready for a transformative politics of the sort that John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan and Franklin Roosevelt represented.” Obama’s definition of “transformational” politics, as Street writes, “made no distinction here between the sharp racial regression and backlash that Reagan represented and the relative racial liberalism of Roosevelt and Kennedy.”
Transcendence – as in “transcending race” – also goes by the wayside, as Street explicates Obama’s white-appeal:
“[Obama] has gone to considerable lengths to reassure whites that he will let them feel good about their willingness to vote for a black man and that he will not push defensive white buttons by meaningfully addressing the persistent powerful role white privilege continues to play in the United States. At the same time…ironically, the Obama phenomenon has the potential to do significant damage to the cause of black equality by helping advance the already widespread post-Civil Rights illusion that racism no longer poses significant barriers to black advancement and equality.”
Obama has been quite convincing in that regard. Arch-conservative and former Reagan drug czar Bill Bennett is a fan. “Obama has taught the black community you don’t have to act like Jesse Jackson, you don’t have to act like Al Sharpton,” Bennett told CNN. “He never plays the race card.”
Of course, one can argue that Obama, by running as the anti-Jackson and anti-Sharpton Black, is playing his own variety of race card from the deck of white fear and loathing. Pressed deep into a corner by the corporate media’s ritual villainization of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Obama delivered his own ritual denunciation of his former pastor:
“Rev. Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems – two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.”
Street judges the “Philadelphia Speech” to be “flawed in profoundly conservative ways, reflecting the narrow parameters of the dominant, superficially color-blind racial discourse of the post-Civil Rights era” and stands “well to the corporate right of any self-respecting progressive agenda.”
Street eviscerates Obama’s positions on every issue dear to progressives. On U.S. militarism: Obama’s determination to add 92,000 additional troops to the imperial Army and Marines; his belligerence on Afghanistan and early urging of incursions into Pakistan; his phony anti-war stance (“I am opposed to dumb wars”); his long-standing view that “we may have no choice but to slog it out” in Iraq; his warning that Venezuela and other emerging nations should not “follow their own path to development.”
On economic justice, Street skewers Obama’s 2007 “business friendly rightwing talking points” on Social Security, lending credence to Republican claims impending “fiscal calamity” for the New Deal program; his fundamental affinity for NAFTA; his corporatist campaign advisors; and his fantastical assertion to NASDAQ that corporations are unfairly criticized because “no one has asked you to play a part in the project of American renewal.”
Obama’s campaign, says Street, is “an especially potent lightning rod of popular excitement and progressive illusion.” Street’s book goes farther than any work to date in dispelling those illusions, point by point, issue by issue. In his final chapter, Street offers his own suggestions on “What is to be done” – a fairly comprehensive agenda around which most people who call themselves progressives can unite.



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Paul, Welcome to the Lake.
Glen, Thank You for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
Hi, Bev, thanks for inviting me to engage Paul about his book.
Glen, while we wait for Paul, tell us about your background with Obama.
Welcome Paul Street and thanks to Glen Ford.
Great timing, let’s do everything we can to prevent him from getting elected.
I’m the executive editor of BlackAgendaReport.com (BAR), a weekly political journal that’s been operation for two years. Prior to that, the BAR team comprised the writing team of BlackCommentator.com, which I co-founded in 2002. My news background stretches back to 1970, with my first gig as a reporter at James Brown’s radio station in Augusta, Georgia.
Hi, Raven. More affirmatively, I’d like to see folks do everything they can to give Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente’s Green Party ticket a respectable showing.
Terrific, I’ll leave now so I don’t ruin the party.
When did you first notice Obama and what was his politics like?
Stick arund Raven, who knows this might be fun or even enlightening.
;~D
“around” …jeeeez.
Raven jump in and ask some questions, this is going to be good.
Am I to gather, then, that any hopes I might have that Obam can be cajoled into behaving a wee bit like FDR, inspite of his neoliberalist tendancies, will be shattered here, this eveing?
Oh dear!
“Obama” ….um …
Is spellin’ gonna count?
Never
Bruce Dixon and I, both then at BlackCommentator.com, noted two disturbing facts in June of 2003: Barack Obama’s name had been added to the corporatist Democratic Leadership Council membership list, and he’d taken his October 2002 anti-war speech off of his campaign web site. This was bad news. Since Bruce had worked with Obama in Chicago on voter registration, we were able to get him on the phone and challenge him. This turned into a month-long exchange, fully shared with the readers of BlackCommentator.com, between Bruce and me and Obama. To encapsulate the experience: he spoke freely, but never honestly.
Paul should be here in a moment.
So.
We gots a leeser of two evils sitchy-a-chun (imagine that) so what’s a country to do?
Ok I’m in, finally
Welcome Paul, Glen has a question for you.
I knew it all along. Thanks for putting into words what was inchoate in my mind.
Paul, please answer a question from me, before you tackle the audience. Barack Obama is credited with convincing a significant number of congresspersons to switch their votes and accept the second bailout bill, Friday – including as many as 13 Congressional Black Caucus members. How does Obama’s campaign rhetoric jibe with his actions during the financial crisis?
i’d rather attempt to be a member of the reality based community.
thanks for some of the back story and especially the reference, i’m going to try to find the time to read some of your old postings on that exchanged.
Something has to be fundamentally crooked with a situation where all we ever get is lesser of two evils situations, and when that lesser gets lesser and lesser all the time.
“the Illinois Senator’s reflexive adherence to corporate parameters of thought and action” ; do you think there is any hope of an Obama change of perspective upon assuming office? I have been excoriated on FDL for not thinking he would and encouraging others to look at third party candidates/platforms.
i’ll agree with raven that it’s great timing. only i mean it sincerely because after last week, i’d love to have better understanding of what we’ve been watching obama do.
The disconenct between populist campaign rhetoric (which I saw in numerous towns halls and speeches here in Iowa in 2007) is quite pronounced. On the stump an his commercials, he’s run as the candidate of the people versus the big corporate and financial interests and her is carrying the water for the policy agenda of Wall Street, contrary to the great majority of the phone calls and e-mail to his office and to those of the rest in Congress. this is very consistent with his $24 million in contributions from the fire, insurance, and real estatte industry and more broadly with the plutocratic reality of the American politics behind the scenes of the quadennial extravaganza. And it’s straight out of my book, an almost pitch-perfect illustration of its thesis and the argument in chapter one, titled “Obama’s Dollar Value”
To Selise: Here’s a link to the old BlackCommentator, from summer 2003. It’ll take you through the monthly long exchange with Obama.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html
That’s why I thanked the author. We do need to know what we’re getting into, no matter how bad. Or put differently, the worse it is, the more we need to know.
this alone makes me want to read the book.
but for now, i’d love to hear more about “what is to be done” – ideas for concrete action can be the basis for hope. and we could all use some of the stuff that real hope is based on.
Here’s another one, Paul, from Glen: You have said that, far from Obama’s candidacy helping the nation to overcome institutional racism, Obama might be making this worse. Explain.
glen ford @29 – thank you.
eCAHNomics @30 – yes. knowledge is the first step to effective action. denial may feel good, but just like some economic polices… there is usually a price to be paid.
I think it was Raven who said. “Great timing, let’s do everything we can to prevent him from getting elected.”
My book does not argue for preventing an Obama presidency and recommends 9(with no great enthusiasm) voting Obama in contested states. I’m helping a state level candidate in rural Iowa right now and as it happens my collateral work of getting people registered to vote and set up to do absentee ballots is getting votes for Obama. It is true that I am extremely critical of Obama from the left and would vote third party if I lived in a “ssfe state,” but I have no illusions that McCain and Pailin do not present severe dangers at home and abroad. Beyond the question of who to vote for my deeper argument is about U.S. corporate-managed/imperial and narrow, and nationalist political culture as a whole.
Selise, “what is to be done(now) was part of the description I wrote for my diary ‘rats in a cage’; Robert Johnson, ex economist on the Senate banking Cmte. said on ‘DemocracyNow’ “And “this is about a bipartisan money machine working against the population. They’re daring you. They’re daring you to turn out in five weeks and, in essence, support challengers against incumbents, because the incumbents are the ones responsible for doing this bill.”
And I concur fully with “I’d like to see folks do everything they can to give Cynthia McKinney and Rosa Clemente’s Green Party ticket a respectable showing.” As a 61 yr. old white man, I trust Rosa Parks as VP more than I do Palin or Biden.
Welcome Paul. Welcome Glen.
This post is not helping me feel at all optimistic about the coming election or the four years beyond it.
Thank you Mr Ford and welcome Mr Street.
Do either of you find any evidence in Barack Obama’s career that he is likely to be persuadable to more progressive positions once elected? Many of us here hope for an FDR-like appeal to “now go and make me do it.”
I was very discouraged that Obama convinced Donna Edwards, among other members of the CBC, to change her vote on the Wealthfare™ Bill this week. I would have liked to see the persuasion flow the other direction and wonder, now, if it ever will.
And thank you, Mr Ford, for the description of Reagan as a “deceased reactionary.” That’ll leave a mark, as it should.
given that i expect congress to be controlled by the dems, i’d still be planning on voting against obama even if i lived in a contested state. might have a different take if congress were controlled by the Rs though.
although, of course, until the vote is actually cast, i’m open to attempts to change my mind.
Glen, Paul, thank you so much for being here.
I was talking with Matt Stoller the other day, who said he felt that Obama was more of a progressive during his college years, but that over time he felt that working to achieve change as a community organizer just simply “didn’t work,” and that’s what drove him into more conservative territory.
What is your sense? Is this a shift, or has he always been this way, and people just projected their own progressive ideals onto him?
Here’s another one, Paul, from Glen: You have said that, far from Obama’s candidacy helping the nation to overcome institutional racism, Obama might be making this worse. Explain.
Counter-intuitive as this to many whites and blacks alike, the Obama phenomemon could be deepening institutional racism in the sense that it represents the latest stage in the eradication of public willingness to admit the persistence of racism as a major factor in U.S. life. Neo-cons and others (even some “liberal” whites) have been saying that Obama’s ascendancy means blacks should finally stop complaining about racism. “Now we can put this tired discourse of race and racism to rest once and for all…Look at Obama’s success.” This overlooks institutional racism and the fact that Obama’s success is contingent upon him being a certain kind of black candidate: “black but not like Jesse.” Translation: “black but doesn’t really press on the race issue.” And Obama becomes another great opportunity for white American to pat itself on its for not being too prejudiced while ignoring deeper structural issues like how the real estate market works against blaacks, how the education system works against blacks .how hiring discriminatin lives on…and so on
I’d like to tell you Obama’s role in all of that is just inadvertent and collateral – that he is not an agent in it. But that would be false. USAY TODAY recently noted “Obama usually hasn’t chosen to emphasize his race, focusing instead on winning over white voters critical in the Democratic primaries earlier this year and in general election Nov. 4.”
That’s an understatement. Obama has gone to great lengths to downplay his technical half-blackness and above all to distance himself from specifically black grievances and the supposedly obsolete notion that the U.S. continues to be deeply scarred by anti-black racism. In calling for Americans to put race aside in pursuit of shared solutions to social and economic problems, Obama’s instantly famous Philadelphia Race Speech last March drastically low-balled the nation’s racial disparities by saying that “race” is “a part of our union that we have yet to perfect.” “Yet to perfect” was more than a bit mild in a nation where an shocking 1-to-11 black-to-white wealth gap afflicts black American households and one in three black males possess a felony record and blacks make up 12 percent of the population but nearly half of its more than 2 million prisoners. This statement was reminiscent of Obama’s claim the previous March (in Selma Alabama ’s historic Brown Chapel) that blacks had come “90 percent” of the way to equality in the U.S.
The other disturbing aspect of Obama’s Philadelphia speech was its portrayal of the racism that created his former pastor Jeremiah Wright and other black Americans’ anger as a function mainly of “memories” of the past. This was profoundly misleading and insulting. and revealing. The racial oppression that angers Wright and many other black Americans, young and old, is more than an overhang from the bad old past.. Black resentment and bitterness is being generated within the U.S. by racist policies and practices in the present, not just the past. New “memories” of racial tyranny are being created right now, beneath the national self congratulation over white folks’ readiness to vote for a certain kind of black presidential candidate. As Bill Fletcher noted last spring, Obama spoke “as if Rev. Wright is stuck in a time warp,” deleting the fact “that Rev. Wright’s anger about the domestic and foreign policies of the USA are well rooted – and documented – in the current reality of the USA .”
Along his path to the presidential election, Obama has bent over backwards to align himself with mainstream white hostility to blacks who “carp” about racial disparities and (in Glen’s words) “to paint young Black men with the broad brush of irresponsibility” Truth be told, this may sound harsh but Obama has offered blacks nothing in the way of any specific anti-racist agenda, only the simply fact of his color. He has said nothing to address or avert the danger that his political success so far has given white America yet another chance to congratulate itself over its alleged and mythical transcendence of racism and to claim that blacks have only themselves to blame for whatever persistent racial inequality white America is still willing to acknowledge.
This is Glen. You have no reason to feel optimistic, in the short run. Capitalism is in terminal crisis, yet there is little coherent opposition to corporate rule – certainly not in the Democratic Party, as we have just witnessed. What is to be done? EVERYTHING awaits doing.
Paul, the amount of participation by FdLer’s and number of diggs for this thread bolsters your posting.
While I digest Paul’s answer to my question on Obama and institutional racism, here’s another one for him: You’ve been closely following Obama’s career for at least six years. At what point did you decide he was definitively NOT a progressive.
Doing everything I can.
Again, thanks for that.
I have known people like that. They get to the top despite some disadvantage, then look down on all people with that (and other) disadvantages for not being able to do it. And they certainly do not go out of their way to help the disadvantaged people.
And “exceptional” America sure needs a good excuse like a black prez to pat themselves on the back over the end of racism. Spit.
I hope this does not sound beyond naive….but I have felt and do feel that it is quite remarkable and a sign of progress and hope that our racist country can even entertain the possibility of electing a Black President. I get your points that he has not been vocal enough about the Black issues; his progress and possibility do bespeak a change in the national outlook, as I see it. From my heart.
What credit, if any, do you give to transcendent black athletes in historically white, elite sports paving the way in the American conscience for Obama in politics? Specifically, Tiger Woods in golf and the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena in tennis.
So, we have a white “radical writer” explaining the “reality based world” to black folks?
that’s a fascinating analysis of obama’s philly speech. i hadn’t thought of it like that, but what you write rings true for me.
the first really big disappointment for me in obama’s candidacy was when so many white “liberals” were ready to condemn the good rev. wright for speaking out about his experience of racism in this country. what should have been an opportunity for honest discussion was transformed into another episode of a black man being told by whites to shut up about race. profoundly sad. and made worse when obama, in effect, supported that position.
Damn, I’m late. Thanks for coming, Paul and Glen. Glen, it’s especially awesome to have you here with us.
I too found Obama’s discussion of “memories” offensive. He ignores the ongoing racism in America when he talks about those of us who see it every day as if we are living in the past.
Racism is present. Obama’s achievement of his current position negates that not at all. It is like the whites who reveled in the Cosbys’ “success” on television and told themselves that blacks had made it in America.
90 percent? I think not.
Glen, Paul, thank you so much for being here.
Question: I was talking with Matt Stoller the other day, who said he felt that Obama was more of a progressive during his college years, but that over time he felt that working to achieve change as a community organizer just simply “didn’t work,” and that’s what drove him into more conservative territory.
What is your sense? Is this a shift, or has he always been this way, and people just projected their own progressive ideals onto him?
Street: yes that’s quite true on the why he quit community organizing. It is explicitly born out by Obama’s community organizing mentor Marty Kellman. Kellman reports a conversation with Obama (at I think Harvard) where BO says basically, “you know I don’t want to be a frustrated failure like my father and I don’t know how much can be attained by community organizing on the Saul Alinsky model.”
That’s fine, I say, but the irony is how much his campaign biography has emphasized the community organizer angle. You should have seen the ads in Iowa in 07…we just got hit over the head again and again about his community organizing and how great it was. And it turns out the truth of it was that he didn’t see it as particuarly effective, maybe for some good reasons, and decided to move and into a different place” running for office!. I don’t know how radical or progressive younfg Obama ever was. My sense is that he was very ambitious from a very young age and was therefore more than ready to from the start to cut moral and ideological corners on the path to power. That meant he would steer to the center particularly when his power analysis (what you do in the Alinsky model) told him that the path to higher office in the U.S. is through accommodating onesef to concentrated power (Wall Street, K Street, the Daley Machine, LaSalle Street [Chicago’s Wall Street], Illinois Senate Majority Leader Emil Jones….the foreign policy establishment, the white electoral majority). Being a commnity organizer instead of a corporate lawyer (recurrent theme in his campaign ads) was probably not a great act of altruism or progressivism…it was rather all about building the sort of resume thatt would work for someone trying to become a big city mayor, a governor, a senator or even a president (he talked about that last job early on) some day,
Personally, I don’t see that there is ANY choice but to vote for Obama.
What I would like to see, and have yet to see, is a coherent set of ideas that ‘progressives’ can truly rally around.
Single Payer: Check
Considerably reduced military (and related) spending: Check
An economic system, that recognizes actual human and planet-based realites, whether the environment or the need of bilogical and special diversity: Check
Etc.
As well as ‘narratives’ that delineate a sustainable, human, humane future that any human being in their proper minds (can’t say ‘right’, anymore) would embrace.
I am seeing damned little that is of real value on either of those two ‘fronts’.
DW
Glad you’re around too, Bruce.
Folks, I want to put in an extra plug for people to make donations at BlackAgendaReport.
Theirs is a great and strong independent voice. very progressive.
I found the Philly speech empty, but couldn’t articulate why. A friend went some distance in saying, “If he wanted to start a conversation about racism, then why didn’t he do it?” In other words, it was a speech to STOP the conversatiion about racism. And it did just that.
I didn’t feel like it stopped conversation at all. Perhaps it did for the corporate for-profit media who never wanted to start a conversation.
I give athletes credit for doing what they do. But we are way beyond the Jackie Robinson era. The purpose of Black politics is to empower Black people, not to make other people feel good, or even to create “role models.” Barack Obama is the anti-”Black Politics” politician. He is perceived as the “anti-Jesse” and the “anti-Rev. Al” – which is part of his appeal to those whites who fear and loathe that “type” of Black person.
I would rather not subject decent, hard working athletes to the unsanitary, uncivilized influences of racial politics.
Yo, Bruce.
Interesting.
Pach also has a compelling analysis of Obama from a shrink’s perspective — about how he has dealt with the pull of differing identities and seeking to transcend them by becoming as establishment as possible. I’m hoping he’ll chime in here, because I’ve been thinking about it ever since.
How much of what is going on right now in black politics — Obama vs. the CBC, Jesse Jackson Jr. vs. Jesse Jackson Sr., etc — is a manifestation of what is happening generationally?
Ah, well, I wrote in an email to a friend in a discussion recently the following:
As Paul indicated, in States where the election is truly a ‘contest’ vote for Obama(why does this remind me of past elections? strictly rhetorical) but if you are in a ’sfae’ Sate as I am (CA), consider voting for a third party candidate.
And the Green Party platform:
http://www.gp.org/platform.shtml
I think meets the criteria you are looking for.
To Raven. Paul Street isn’t targeting his book at Black folks, but at progressives in general. I hope you’re not saying that a white man cannot have anything useful to say on the Black condition, are you?
From my heart, RevBev, I recall that the Freedom Movement, of which Dr. King was a part of stood on three legs — opposition to racism, the promotion of economic justice, and and opposition to war and American empire abroad. Remember, Dr. King died helping the leaders of a Memphis garbage workers strike, in a situation where pro-strike forces had emptied out all the city’s high schools in support of the strike, that he steadfastly opposed the Vietnam war, too. KIng could never have stood, as Obama did, on a stage full of generals and admirals, many of them black, and lauded “their service”.
But if you separate the fight against racism from that against economic inequality and empire, all you get is an open road for the big bad guys to strengthen their rule by promoting a few black faces. All the popular lauding of Dr. King for 4 decades has been about just that kind of distortion of his and the Freedom Movement’s meaning.
That’s what we have in Obama. Blck guy get’s promoted, gives the empire a new lease on legitimacy, by giving anyone who wants it a warm, self-congratulatory glow. Bask in it.
Well, heh, I see your point there. However, it strikes me, and kind of my point behind the question, is that noe of those specified, including Obama, really operate, or for that matter are particularly perceived, as “black”. Tiger is just Tiger. Obama is just Obama. That, in and of itself, is pretty remarkable. It should not be; but it is.
fascinating. thank you.
I dunno, what did Stokley say?
And, I should have added, I agree. This is not Jackie Robinson or Jesse Owens variety of effect. Completely different, and that difference is my point. Not the “black” golfer or tennis player; just a player. That is different and subconsciously may have softened the ground for Obama’s effort.
So what is your solution, Mc Kinney?
Thanks Bruce; too many people don’t think of ALL MLK stood for.
Paul, can you describe your last chapter – What is to be done?
The “generational clash” in Black politics is vastly overblown. The theory is pushed by corporate actors, who claim Blacks are becoming more conservative as they become more middle class AND that younger Blacks are more conservative than their elders, who are “trapped” in the Sixties. However, when Blacks are surveyed on their basic political stances and attitudes, little or no generational differences are evident. In some cases, younger Blacks’ attitudes can be considered more militant than their “boomer” elders – which should be expected, since that’s a property of youth. The “evidence” for a generational gap can only be found on the elected official front, which is quite logical, since for the past decade corporations have pumped unprecedented funds into intra-Black electoral races – which was quite rare before the mid-90s.
DWBartoo
Those who draw the analogy between FDR and Obama, saying that maybe “the left” whatever that is, can make Obama do things he would not otherwise do, should recall that “the left” back in the early and mid 1930s consisted of hundreds of militant local groups (including an active Communist Party) around the country engaged in unlawful, defiant and personally risky behavior like were setting the belongings of evicted people back in their apartments, getting clubbed and arrested and jailed and shot in hunger marches, strikes and such. There were even general strikes in Minneapolis and SF. Even in the sixties, a lot of the people who marched and demonstrated were taking risks.
Now marches are picnics and no “left” exists that engages in personally risky defiance of the law. Absent a large body of US citizens ready to take public, personal risks that make the conduct of business as usual costly for the powers that be, it is hard to see how Obama could be moved to the left.
The anecdote about his father is, if true, very interesting. It would suggest that, in rejecting what he encodes as his father’s failures, he also rejects something of his father’s identity, and that part of himself that is his father’s son.
It’s oversimplified to say that this mean he rejects his “blackness,” in my view, but is does suggest to me an added element to his establishmentarian identity: its roots are perhaps more white Kansan strivings, not Kenyan immigrant/outsider strivings.
What’s more, in the end, we are all out father’s sons. The best way not to repeat one’s father’s errors is to recognize and embrace that parts of ourselves that are very much our father. George W. Bush has formed his fragile identity on a rejection of his father and it not only outlines his tragic flaws, but sets up all the bills the rest of us have to pay. . . and pay. . . and pay.
What will we pay for Obama’s rejection of his father? And does this rejection, if it is real, establish the direction in which his greatest failings will become manifest, the rejection perhaps of the alien, the outsider, the “failure” (or society’s losers) in his pursuit of legitimacy and popular favor, exorcising his own demons?
For Paul. Many self-described progressives claim that, even though Obama himself is no progressive, there is a “movement” surrounding his candidacy that is at least potentially a progressive force. Is Obama leading a “movement”?
selise: this alone makes me want to read the book.
but for now, i’d love to hear more about “what is to be done” – ideas for concrete action can be the basis for hope. and we could all use some of the stuff that real hope is based on
Street: I can’t do my whole sixth chapter (”Beyond the Narrow Spectrum”) and Afterword (”Imagining a Progressive Future”) here, but I will say that we have to put the Pengaton budget (what is it $600 billino per year, paying for 720 plus bases across every country on earth and for half the military spending on earth) back on the table and open it up for serious debates and cutting. Remember the “peace dividend?”. One of the truly remarkable things in this current bailout drama and in the presidential non-debates is that this question of Empire and its costs is thoroughly unmentionable except beyond some passing rererences to the costs of the Iraq War, which Obama has given us numerous reasons to expect he will contine. The “defense” (Empire) budget is beyond the pale of serious scrutinity.
I dedicated an entire chapter (4: “How ‘Antiwar?’ Obama, Iraq, and the Audacity of Empire”) to the question of Obama’s closeness to Empire. It’s quite amusing to see the McCain campaign and hacks like Jerome Corsi (aurhot of “the Obama Nation”) claim that BO is some kind of “extreme leffist”– a radical opponent of the militarism they hold so dear and the war they want to “win.” The charge is of course Orwellian neo-McCarthyite madness.
Team Obama should hire me and send me around the country, saying “listen to an actual leftist talk about how non-left Obama is.”
I’m not necessarily saying people should not buy the Obama brand in contested states (McCain may be worse than Bush II). I’m saying study the history of U.S. narrow-spectrum politics and the history of the candidate and then buyer beware. Get ready to fight and protest, guilt-free, if brand Obama makes it into the White House. I’m saying what Zinn and other left intellectuals always say: the Democrats only budge from their attachment to corporate power and miltarism when they confront rebellion from below as in the 1930s and 1960s. And I’m saying corproate crafted candidate centered narrow spectrum elections are not the sum total of politics – not by a longshot. The more urgent tasks have to do with building rank and file pressure and popular organization and an actual democratic reponsive poltiical culture between and beneath the quadrennial extravanganzas, whateve their outcomes! Hope is in popular mobilization and the question remains as to whether the Obama phenomenon will have pacified and downsized popular struggle or fed its expansion. I am very worried that Obama will encourage progressive self-pacifification if he gets in. At the same I seem him losing as dangerous as well and it is very important that if he loses people udnerstand that it is corporate-imperial centrism (in rebel’s progressive clothing during the primary campaign mainly), NOT the people and NOT “the left” that got beat.
Dear Glen, thanks to you and Paul Street for this amazing appearance at FDL. Not questions right now- I just got here, and have to go back and read in more detail.
And, Glen, thank you for your writings at Black Agenda report. I remember one column in particular about Obama betraying what would be best for Blacks, or words to that effect, and I linked that column here at FDL way back when, at least a few times. You were right on the money, so to speak.
And that is happening where? All the MSM talks about are the situations where white people would not vote for a black person. The idea that Barak winning would indicated the transcendence of racism is ridiculous. The idea that it MIGHT be a step in the right direction is not.
More marketing one than leading one, no?
There are no “solutions” is running in this, or any election.
My guess is that a solution would be to hold on till we figure how to help create a risk-taking, law-defying left in this country so that we CAN move somebody to the left on questions that matter. But without risk-taking, even lawbreaking behavior, that raises the cost of business as usual to unacceptable levels, they can ignore us forever. And why wouldn’t they?
Couldn’t be that people figured out that the “left” didn’t have much to offer?
well, there are a few anarchists, but on your larger point, i agree.
if that’s what it would take… then i’ve got to seriously consider that maybe that’s where my efforts ought to be.
Actually Stokely’s history and trajectory are very similar to Obama’s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokely_Carmichael
Obama never was a member of the DLC — they tried to claim him as a member, but he made them pull his name from their website (they had placed it up there without his knowledge). The DLC and Blue Dog memberships in fact favored Edwards and Clinton far more than Obama (Blue Doggers like Mudcat Saunders backed Edwards, while DLCers preferred Clinton, a founding member of the DLC).
Beats me, I came home from Vietnam, put my ass on the line in the VVAW and watched the war continue for 5 years while the “left” had intellectual arguments about who was smarter.
And ‘they’ have already taken actions and put into place laws to discourage such actions upon threat of bodily harm.
I hear you, Raven.
Sort of hit and run here. Can’t say that most of what you say surprises me. Anyone who is unaware that Obama is fundamentally a corporatist either has no understanding of Chicago politics (I lived there for 12 years) or hasn’t paid attention to his record. As a Chicago machine politician, he is a compromised corporatist and, I think, less beholden to them than Clinton was. The machine owes too much to the unions. As you say that alternatives to an Obama victory are potentially disastrous. It is up to those of us on the left to hold his feet to the fire and to push for ever more progressive Democrats.
DWBartoo
Those who draw the analogy between FDR and Obama, saying that maybe “the left” whatever that is, can make Obama do things he would not otherwise do, should recall that “the left” back in the early and mid 1930s consisted of hundreds of militant local groups (including an active Communist Party) around the country engaged in unlawful, defiant and personally risky behavior like were setting the belongings of evicted people back in their apartments, getting clubbed and arrested and jailed and shot in hunger marches, strikes and such. There were even general strikes in Minneapolis and SF. Even in the sixties, a lot of the people who marched and demonstrated were taking risks.
Now marches are picnics and no “left” exists that engages in personally risky defiance of the law. Absent a large body of US citizens ready to take public, personal risks that make the conduct of business as usual costly for the powers that be, it is hard to see how Obama could be moved to the left.
Street: Good point.I would add however that we have entered into an economic crisis that is far from over and that the results will bring opportunities as well dangers for the rebuilding of a left around questions of empre and inequality at home and abroad. But yes, the balance of class forces that existed in 1932 does not exist today. We do not have a concentrated working class with the power to shut down vast capital intensive means of production on the model of the Flint Sit Down strike and so on. And we don’t have an organized actual left even on the scale of the late 1920s for God’s sake. So I think yes people should be careful about 1930s/New Deal analogies with the Obama moment if it happens. The other thing is that FDR came in as the Great Depression was hitting rock bottom. Obama may come in the next depression’s early stage, a little early for mass radicalization to set in – the sort that brought the 1934 strike wave and so forth.
Dear VG. Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes, we wish our predictions were wrong. We get no satisfaction from Obama being even worse than Bruce and I feared he would be, back in 2003.
I’ll go along with that.
and the state will whiter away
Single Payer Health Care – medicare for all citizens at birth – would save money for everyone, including employers like GM. The left wants single payer, government health care and the capitalists on the right could be persuaded by its cost savings.
Insurance and Pharma lobbies which stand among the biggest contributers to congressmembers prevent any dialogue.
The right and the left could potentially get together on this as they had for FISA and The Bailout. Unsucessful it was, but the truth remains.
that was bad
whither
We saw it again this year with the coverage of the conventions. Just as in 1968, the media coverage was “Oooh, look at the icky unwashed protesters with their bad tattoos smashing windows! Aren’t you glad the cops are saving us from them?”
Unless you were actually there to see what really happened, or knew someone who was, that’s the viewpoint you likely ended up having.
That’s why massed protests, particularly violent ones, backfire. (It’s also why agents provocateur love to start violence that they hope can be blamed on their enemies.)
wither
Yes. Just as “revolution” long ago became corporate advertising property. Paul points out that Obama’s folks told people in Iowa that by caucusing with Obama, they were joining the anti-war movement. Which was crap.
Ditto. As someone who grew up with Jim Crow and segregation, I never thought I would live to see this day. The thought that Obama can win this still astounds me, but it does not mean racism is over. It remains, in fact, a major subtext in this election. What is the “Obama is an elitist,” except code for “uppity black man?” Give me another rational reason the election is as close as it is other than a whole lot of white folks will not pull the lever for a black man?
As I understand it political “left” and “right” are terms that originated at the point in the French Revolution when one of the first constituent assemblies sat. In the same room were representatives of the nobility and the church, which wanted all their lands and ancient privileges along with the monarchy restored, as well as representatives of merchants, overseas plantation owners, small business people, peasants and workers. The supporters of wealth and ancient privilege sat on the right side of the room, and the representatives of ordinary working people sat on the left.
Ever since then, all over this planet, the defenders of entrenched wealth and unearned privilege have been called “the right” and those who stand up for ordinary people have been called “the left”.
Given all this, to say that “the left” has “nothing to offer” is a statement I will not even try to answer. Really, it does not need an answer.
I read what you meant to say, not what you actually typed.
Ok, I appreciate your patience.
Paul, you are correct here: “Obama may come in the next depression’s early stage, a little early for mass radicalization to set in – the sort that brought the 1934 strike wave and so forth.”
“Early stages” is correct. And it may take until the ‘white’ population is a minority(2042).
We WERE icky unwashed protesters in Miami 72!
“Wither”. But yeah, exactly.
That’s right up there with “Nach Hitler, Uns” — the idea the German Communists had of pushing for Hitler, on the belief that he was so inept that he’d cause the capitalist structures of Germany to collapse, which would cause the people to turn to the Communists to lead them. Didn’t exactly work out that way.
WE at BlackCommentator, Bruce Dixon and me, FORCED Obama to ask the DLC to remove his name from their list. It all unfolded in our pages. Here’s the link.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html
But it was a swell theory!
Yup. The media and Nixon told America that you were all so scary (despite all evidence to the contrary), and that we needed Law And Order to fight the scary hordes. That’s what helped get Nixon his second term.
So, he didn’t lie to you about that?
Thank you, thank you very much.
I did as well. My community radio station is running their fall marathon to raise money. Sunday mornings are devoted to AA talk shows. This morning they read some of the comments that came in by people who were trying to tie up the phone lines and they were overtly racist. Nobody can convince me that a city that can’t find a way to stop a bunch of rednecks from flying a 30 x 50 Confederate battle flag at the junction of two interstates doesn’t need an awakening.
Sort of hit and run here. Can’t say that most of what you say surprises me. Anyone who is unaware that Obama is fundamentally a corporatist either has no understanding of Chicago politics (I lived there for 12 years) or hasn’t paid attention to his record. As a Chicago machine politician, he is a compromised corporatist and, I think, less beholden to them than Clinton was. The machine owes too much to the unions. As you say that alternatives to an Obama victory are potentially disastrous. It is up to those of us on the left to hold his feet to the fire and to push for ever more progressive Democrats.
Street: people from Chicago are going to know more – that’s for sure. He came up through King Daley II and the corporate0financial-real estate forces around downtown global Chicago — a good bridge to the national business and politics class. He is very close to top Daley funders and developers and all of that. He shares Daley’s PR guy David Axelrd.
But you are in a minority to know all this. I was in Iowa for the 2007 primaries and the 2008 Caucus and almost nobody out here had a clue about nay of that history. A bunch of Iowa City/Ames liberals were really caught up in the image of him as an antiwar candidate (he is no such thing, as I show in great detail in Chapter 4), as a social justice pogressive, etc. They truly had candidate Obama confused with the great social movement leader Dr. King (King rejected efforts to get him to run for the White House in 1967).
A big part of the progressive illusion with college town whites in places like Madison and Iowa City and Ann Arbor and with white liberals in general is simply that Obama is black. His skin color feeds the illusion that he’s more progressive….theres actually research on this. If you put people in a lab and give them two candidates’ policy positions and make those positions exactly the same and then tell them that candidate X is white and candidate Y is black they’ll tell you that candidate Y is more progressive than candidate X. That basicallty happened in the primaries with Hillary and Obama” close to identical policy positions (in fact Hillary ran to Obama left on health care and housing policy) but lots of Dem, primary voters could not process it and a big part and saw him as considerable to his left. The other thing was his 2002 war position of course. Many good progressive liberals here in Iowa often simply could not or would not process that Edwards was running to Obama’s left.
so the question then becomes – how to build that rebellion going forward?
my gravest political concern is now, after last week, that something like an economic collapse if it should happen on obama’s watch (and which seems more likely given his misbegotten actions on the bailout) would create a fertile ground for a rightwing populist rebellion. and since the democrats will have proven themselves not up to the task – other “solutions” will be sought (scape goating immigrants to starting more wars).
anyway, great answer – will order your book at the end of the salon. thanks.
To Paul, from Glen. On the foreign policy front, please explain the difference between Obama and McCain.
A big part of the problem in the 60s and 70s is that the Democratic Party leadership (just as now) was overwhelmingly corporatist and there simply were not enough of us who were uncivil enough to take to the streets. There still aren’t. Have to agree that there has to be a credible threat of violence or other active resistance to force the powers that be to pay attention to the interests of the people.
Yep. Whole lot of that going on all over the country.
Well let’s hope that things get bad enough to accomplish that. Vote Mc Cain!
My opposition to Obama and Clinton from day one was the fact that they are both corporatists and that’s who will benefit most from either of them being in the WH. The term “common good” appears only in campaign speeches, not in their ideology.
Paul, I’d be interested in seeing you compare Obama to Bill Clinton, another corporate Dem.
That’s my schtick. I see it as the only way to make effective change.
“Forced”? Um, you let him know it was there — and he likely hadn’t bothered with it because the DLC nowadays is so weak it’s not worth noticing and hasn’t been for years. But he was never a member, for the simple reason that he wasn’t of the Clinton clique that forms the DLC’s current nucleus. (The closest he came was in his ill-advised connection to Joe Lieberman, a connection shared by many Senator who Lieberman sought to take under his wing.)
In any event, the DLC is not exactly a powerhouse of potency nowadays. The Blue Dogs have far more pull among the conservative-Democrat wing.
Someone asked: What credit, if any, do you give to transcendent black athletes in historically white, elite sports paving the way in the American conscience for Obama in politics? Specifically, Tiger Woods in golf and the Williams sisters, Venus and Serena in tennis.
Street: don’t know. I think Oprah has been pivotal in terms of creating “good black” (not like Jesse) mass-cultural space in white suburbia. The Colin Powell phenomenon was crtiical ina mroe directly political way and so even was and is C. Rice. Oprah campaigned with Obama in Iowa and elswhere and the Obama campaign was very attuned to her pwoer with the part of the middle class white electorate they were micro-targetting for the election.
Please note the date of the link posted for you to reference; DLC was still a MAJOR force in the Dem party at that time.
I like the difference between them on Afghanistan. McCain says we’re winning and therefore we need to send more troops. Obama says we are losing in Afghanistan, and ought to send more troops.
And the Brit General says we can’t win.
This may seem like an OT question, but I am drawing on my experience as part of the “class of 69″- first year of the draft lottery.
I would be very interested to know from Glen or Paul or Bruce if, and in what way the political landscape might be changed if the draft were re-instated. Apologies Paul, if this is something you already addressed in your book, and apologies if this is way too OT. If so, please ignore.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. *g* Those of us who have studied counterinsurgency since coming back to the world knew that from the get go.
That may take it too far. Violence in itself is not generally a productive tool (look at the results of the Russian, Chinese, and Cuban revolutions). It is the presence of a small, but credible group willing to go that route, along with a much larger and more moderate group who appear suddenly reasonable by contrast (Black Panthers and NAACP or SLC for instance).
As we are coming to the end of this great Book Salon:
Paul, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing Obama and your new book.
Glen, Thank you very much for Hosting today’s great Book Salon.
Everyone, if you haven’t bought this important book yet, there is a link above.
Thanks all.
Including McCain ads that make Obama appear much blacker. I really don’t want to hear that there’s not a meaningful choice.
Or studied the Afghans.
“A fool lies here
who tried to hustle the East.”
Paul, I’d be interested in seeing you compare Obama to Bill Clinton, another corporate Dem.
Same exact ideological space, but I see him as more like Carter lately. Carter was supposed to rescue the nation and restore morality and bring “hope” and “change” after (a) a terrible war (b) horrific corruption and (c) an incredibly unpopular and evil presidency. They nedded someone to restore legitemacy to the system in its crisis. That’s not how Clinton came in. Also Carter had a big aura of relgion (Obama has some of that) and was pretty much squeaky clean on personal conduct (Clinton came with a few closets full of skeletons on sexual behavior).
One thing Obama has that neither Carter or Clinton had to the same extent was a mobilized semi-movement behind him.
The anology Obama likes most is the very corporate centrist and militarist militarist JFK — something that hopeful progressives thinking FDR should bear in mind. Great book on JFK: Bruce Mirrof, Pragmatic Illusions (1976) — it had some influence on my approach to Obama.
Sorry I got in late to this forum – great questions. Thanks to Glen and Beverly.
I think our best hope is that Obama isn’t beholden to the corporate interests. Most of his money, and all his supporters are from the left side of the spectrum.
Re draft: My belief is that the whole “contract” between the American people and the Lords of Empire would dissolve the second it appeared a draft might be in the offing. The U.S. military seems to agree; that’s why they don’t want a draft. I was in the 82nd Airborne Divisionm ‘67-70, when the line units were 60% Black. The brass don’t want that kind of Army, anymore. That’s why they pushed for – not resisted – all-volunteer.
Hell, anyone familiar with Afghan (or British colonial) history knew that. Which of course leaves out everyone responsible for this monumental clusterfuck.
Soros makes the same point in his latest book: ““Reflexivity can be interpreted as a circularity, or two-way feedback loop, between the participants’ views and the actual state of affairs. People base their decisions not on the actual situation that confronts them but on their perception or interpretation of that situation. Their decisions make an impact on the situation (the manipulative function), and changes in the situation are liable to change their perceptions (the cognitive function)”
1,786 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Paul Street:
Citizen Ford introduces you as a former “research director for the ‘corporate-dominated’ Chicago Urban League”, how would you identify yourself politically in relationship to this group today? And do you have any hisory with Nadar or the Nadarite pseudo-greens?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NOT ALL FASCISTS CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICANS!!!
IMO violence is never a productive tool. I’m a firm believer in Gandhi’s model for socio-economic change.
Thank you Paul, Glen and Bev for this book salon.
yes, many thanks to all. very interesting – and am looking forward to reading the book.
The All Americans! Did you get deployed with the 3d Bde 68?
In 2005? Read the article. It was already on its way out. Nowadays the Blue Dogs have much more clout.
As for Obama and the “Chicago machine”, bear in mind that there has been a bit of a fight between the New York and Chicago wings of the organized African-American community as to who will represent black Americans. (And of course before LA came to the fore, the big American inter-city rivalry on the 20th century was between New York and Chicago.) That’s a big part of why Al Sharpton, one of the leaders of the New York contingent, took a long time to warm up to Obama.
That will end as soon as he becomes prez. It’s much more pleasant & rewarding to be wined & dined by corps than to collect pennies from the unwashed.
Yep. I don’t see me and the rest of St Pete For Peace being invited to the WH in the foreseeable future.
me too.
especially because it takes into account that i could be very, very wrong.
This is Glen. Goodnight all. Buy Paul’s book. I enjoyed your company. Visit us at http://www.BlackAgendaReport.com. Big thanks to the good people at FireDogLake.
Thanks for being here.
Racists will not vote for a black, but many many people are not seeing this as a matter of race, but as a what he stands for, that he is intelligent and qualified.
You will never eliminate racism. You can eliminate institutional racism and discrimination and enforce the laws vigorously.
It is something to note that a black man is one of the major party candidates for president and a woman almost got that position. Obviously lots of people are not see gender and race as a barrier to high office… and that lot’s seems to be enough to get a woman or a non white elected.
Plenty of people on the left were activists, marched wrote, agitated, even were COs.
Glen, thanks for the response. This is a topic that has been discussed a lot at FDL, though not of late at FDL. No fault there to FDL commenters i.e. no recent discussions, bec. there have been so many other things going on.
I was originally against the re-instatement of the draft, but my best friend from those days, who actually has kids of draft age, said that it would make citizens pay more attention to the implications of their choices. I have to agree with that, tho I still ponder the question. Problem is, of course, that the draft wasn’t fair then, and there is no reason to expect that it would be in future.
However, if it would dissolve the Lords of Empire, then I’m all for it.
after watching the fisa kabuki for a year, i’ve concluded that the blue dogs are nothing more than the public face of what the party leadership wants to do – but also doesn’t want to be seen as responsible for doing.
Well, I guess everyone here doesn’t agree.
When Tet hit, I got transferred to division headquarters. Everybody else flew to Ton San Nhut – and got mortared on the runway. But that’s too long a story.
I’m familiar with it. Nice to meet you.
but, but…that’s what made flyin’ into Ton San Nhut so much fun. /s
p.s. Glen, my apologies if I have misunderstood part of your response, re: the Lords of the Empire. If I didn’t get it, apologies.
oh, crikey, were you there?
Is a bullfrog waterproof?
“I think our best hope is that Obama isn’t beholden to the corporate interests.”
You have to read the first chapter of my book, titled “Obama’s Dollar Value.” Obama has floated to national prominence on a sea of corporate cash and connections. Not to mention free corporate media love, which has been simply remarkable. His top economic advisers (playing key roles in encoouraging to carry water for Wall Street in the bailout) include Robert Rubin, tne former CEO of Goldman Sachs and chair of Citigroup and also the former Treasury Sec. who advanced savage bubble-fueling financial deregulation under Clinton in the 1990s. Another high Obama economics adviser is Jason Furman of the corporate neoliberal Wall-Street-based Hamilton Group (great name- says it all), which is a bigger agent of the corporate agenda than the now more marginal DLC (at this point it no longer matters all that much that Obama’s not in DLC). Furman has written about the wonders of “free trade” (investors rights) and Wal Mart; I believe he is Obama’s economic policy director.
But yes quite a few supporters who call themseves left and progressive. It could set up an interesting tension if and when he gets in and the rubber of inspiring progressive campaign rhetoric hits the ugly corporate and military road of governance. When that rubber hit the road in relation to JFK in the early 1960s some of the resulting tension drove the formation of the New Left — a good thing I think.
Hell, we were winnin when he left:)
Thanks for the info, something I had missed.
Okay, I have to go do other stuff.
But thanks to all for this Book Salon. Much appreciated.
Don’t forget to hit up paypal when you get over there!
Thank you for this.
Yes, this is correct.
The rest of your statement, however appears seriously inaccurate. I want to read the rest of the chat, however, before commenting.
I really do not get you here. Donovan McNabb is forced into the Willie Mays position, while other “angry” players who had slaves as ancestors are forced into the angry Jackie Robinson, who wouldn’t shut up about integration.
I see some progress, but I don’t see it being “over.”
How do you define “black” people?
How do you define “white” people?
How is this different than most political leaders, then most Wall Street executives, most of the corporate elite?
The much larger problem is that the “faces” who don’t have any ancestors who were slaves somehow think they do not have any responsibility for economic inequality visited on people solely because of their ethnicity.
Most everyone at FDL understood that when John Edwards pulled out, so did the last hopes for a modestly liberal Presidential candidate. I have no problem with your description of Obama. I have very serious problems with your omitting the fact that it applies just as well to Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and the vast majority of corporate Democrats.
I agree with this for a lot of people who are 100% European American. It’s a huge step forward for them to vote for someone who is not 100% European American.
Bullseye. Great question.
I was pleasantly surprised. This was a very good answer.
As you begin to learn about white supremacy, you can drop the “ideological” part. Clinton and Obama were the same. That works just fine. I suspect you slid the “ideological” part in there, because it’s so paramount to show the intrinsic differences between “the blacks” on the one hand and all “the whites” on the other. /s
Historically, you can talk about this if you’re careful about your language, which so far in this chat you have not been. A candidate who is not 100% European American (and who is incorrectly perceived to have had ancestors who were slaves) has a “mobilized semi-movement” behind him. It’s the understandable and natural reaction against centuries of legalized white supremacy. In other words “white people,” whatever that was (it changed dramatically where you were in the US) were supreme by law, over people of other ethnicities.
The same thing happened wrt gender. Up until about 1919, your gender determined your ability to vote and to own property. The law enshrined that.
It’s the history/legacy of legalized white supremacy that gives the “movement,” its energy.
Bullseye. Thank you.
Paul, I am sorry to say this, but I perceive your comments to be very consistent with what I call, refined white supremacy. I certainly hope I’m wrong about that, but your ignorance of “black” and “white” is overwhelming.
A large segment of older Americans who had slaves as ancestors (that’s a very clumsy phrase, but one I would strongly invite you to consider using), do not consider Obama to be “black.” AFAIK, he didn’t have any ancestors who were slaves. It’s perfectly acceptable in most of the US in 2008 for a “Single White Male” to seek a “Single White Female.” Most Americans, who are 100% European American find nothing of consequence there.
Paul, I know you don’t consider yourself a refined white supremacist. I’m clear on that.
Unintentional though it might be, from your comment in number 40, this is completely consistent with refined white supremacy:
Now try this.
Please do not use terms such as “half-black.” It’s insulting. How does someone “downplay” skin pigmentation? Can I “downplay” the thickness of my lips? Can people “downplay” their gender? Can I “downplay” how curly my hair is?
Obama is 100% human. Why is his ethnicity relevant to you? Is it relevant that I am half Irish? Should I feel badly because George machine-gun Kelly was Irish?
Obama’s ethnicity obviously matters a great deal to you. That’s not a compliment. Let it go.
Obama has no greater responsibility to help the descendants of US slavery and legalized white supremacy aka Jim Crow laws, than any other American. Dealing with the historical legacy of legalized white supremacy and the enslavement of Africans (Slavery was illegal in the US for everyone except Africans)is an American problem.
Follow the money. All US citizens share equally in the present value of the United States. A significant portion of that “present value,” was stolen from numerous Native American tribes. Another significant portion of that “present value,” was built by African slaves, who received no compensation. (I trust your familiar with the systematic deprivation of civil rights, education, access to credit …. that the slaves and their descendants had to manage.) You don’t have to have had slave ancestors to figure out that finding ways to compensate the descendants of the slaves makes sense. International courts have already forced German banks to pay restitution to the descendants of Europeans (Jews and Poles mostly) who were enslaved by the Nazis.
You can talk about these kinds of issues without talking about skin pigmentation, hair, the thickness of lips, or other visual cues.
IMHO, descendants of the slaves in America are happy to vote for Obama, because he’s not 100% European American. The fact that most 100% European Americans think Obama had slave ancestors is just kind of an added bonus. They already know he’s an oreo. They know he never would have gotten into the US Senate as an an angry rapper, say, NWA.
Many people who are 100% European American think that Halle Berry and Jessica Alba are BLACK actors, or as you so artfully put it, “half-black.” One smidgen of blood/ancestry that is NOT 100% European American makes someone “black,” whatever that is, in the eyes of many 100% European Americans. That is the white supremacist meme you reinforce when you so casually throw around terms such as “black,” and “white;” a racial grand canyon divides us. The truth is that we’re all one race, the human race. The fact that so many Americans don’t accept that is a tragedy.
Americans who are 100% European American think they have come to grips with the whole “race” thing. That’s because they live in virtually segregated neighborhoods where nearly everyone is 100% European American. 100% European Americans don’t have to face the ethnic struggles that their ancestors faced. In America if you have just the appearance of ancestors who were slaves, life is totally different. Walk into a predominantly European American clothing store, security follows you around, everywhere, until you leave. They don’t want you. They fear if they don’t hound you, you’ll bring in more shopper who are not 100% European American. They don’t want that. It ruins their brand. Drive your car into a European American neighborhood, the police will pull you over again, and again, and again.
You’ve adequately described corporate influence in the Democratic party. What you have failed to explain is how the Dem’s Presidential 2008 candidate is somehow more responsible for it than all the other, older Democrats. Did you think he was going to get elected to the US Senate by snubbing corporate America? This is what Americans who are descendants of the slaves are so used to. It’s always easier to criticize them, because of their ethnicity. Life isn’t fair. If you’re not 100% European American in the United States it’s really unfair.
Congratulations, you figured out that Obama is an oreo. That’s what W.E.B. Dubois thought of Booker T. Washington. Joe Louis was the oreo to the earlier Jack Johnson. Willie Mays was the oreo to Jackie Robinson. Martin Luther King was the oreo to Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. Joe Frazier was the oreo to Muhammed Ali. American who descended from the slaves cannot win. They know, in the eyes of people who are 100% European American, it’s their ethnicity that matters.
[Mod Note: Please be careful in the words you choose. What you think is perfectly acceptable may be offensive to others - especially regarding such a hot button issue as race.]
BooRadley: “Most everyone at FDL understood that when John Edwards pulled out, so did the last hopes for a modestly liberal Presidential candidate. I have no problem with your description of Obama. I have very serious problems with your omitting the fact that it applies just as well to Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, and the vast majority of corporate Democrats.”
No, no no – a thousand times no, I don’t do that – not in the book. You are responding to some quick speed-typing in yesterday’s 2-hour salon. The book makes a point of prefacing each major policy chapter – the one on class/corporate power (Chapter 1: “Obama’s ‘Dollar Value’), the one on race (Chapter 3: “How ‘Black’ is Obama?”), and the one on foreign policy (chapter 4: “How ‘Antiwar?’ Obama, Iraq, and the Audacity of Empire”) with an exhaustive description of the centrist history of the Democratic Party 1945 to the present. My publishers and I anticipated that I would be accused of singling Obama out and so made a very explicit and deliberate point precisely of framing him in the overall context of Demcoratic Party centrism and indeed of the broader American winner-take-all elections systm and political culture going back to the beginning. Truth be told, the book is among other things an effort precisely NOT to single Obama out and to show how (a) his behavior is entirely consistent with that of other corporate Democrats past and present and (b)it is deeply incentivized by the dominant party system and political culture (corporate-crafted and heavily imperial, American-Exceptionalist). He is playing by the rules of the game imposed from the top down on anyone who wants to win.
I’ve heard the “half black” and “half white” phrases from African-Americans actually, but fine on the lecture. Chapter (4) is much much deeper than “figuring out that Obama is an oreo.” For what it’s worth, I stay away from the “acting white” meme; having worked for years (2000-2005) at the Chicago Urban League I am all too aware that the black community is fully capable of producing its own wealth- and power-accommodating conservatives and there doesn’t have to be anything white about it at the end of the day — just like any other ethno-cultural community in that regard, though black America is the leftmost ethnocultural segment of the elecotrate by far. In the black communty in Chicago before pride in the Obama nomination took over there was a fair bit of grumbling about Obama being “bourgeois” and elite, from Harvard and the University of Chicago and so forth – not so much about “acting white,” though you could hear that too.
NorskeFlamethrower says
“Citizen Paul Street:
Citizen Ford introduces you as a former “research director for the ‘corporate-dominated’ Chicago Urban League”, how would you identify yourself politically in relationship to this group today? And do you have any hisory with Nadar or the Nadarite pseudo-greens?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, NOT ALL FASCISTS CALL THEMSELVES REPUBLICANS!!!”
Oh I was always too left for that job. Race creates some space for a leftist to hide out and I had a dual existence there to say the least. As it was push came to shove over the issue of the Chicago Wal Mart wage ordinance (the Daley-captive CUL CEO was pro-Wal Mart and I was of course anti-Wal Mart and pro-labor) and also over the agency’s refusal to promptly release a comprehensive study of institutional racism in Chicago….a study funded by the very foundation where Obama in trouble with the neo-McCarthytie right for sitting on a board with onetime Weatherman Bill Ayers (Woods Fund of Chicago). Between the Wal Mart nastiness and the truly sickening delay of the study — I don;t think it passeed muster with the corporate board —- my days were done and I had to get out of Dodge. I like Ralph, who knows the book (got a mss. early)
Glen Ford said, “While I digest Paul’s answer to my question on Obama and institutional racism, here’s another one for him: You’ve been closely following Obama’s career for at least six years. At what point did you decide he was definitively NOT a progressive.”
The instantly celebrated Keynote Address of 2004 is when for me. first time I really focused in a big way on Obama. I broke that speech down savagely from the left two days after the shot ac ross the sky. See Paul Street,
“Keynote Reflections,” (Featured Article), ZNet Magazine (July 29th, 2004), available online at http://www.zmag.org/content/sh…..emID=5951.
You gotta read this critic, penned on the fly. Day after it went up I got 152 thank you messages from left progressives, some of whom are now big time Obamaists. “Thanks for showing the conservative reality beneath liberal illusions.” Biggest response ever for a ZNet article of mine.
I thought I was clairvoyant, but turns out Adolph Reed Jr. was talking about Obama as conservative neoliberal in 1996 (in Village Voice), when Obama weas just starting out!
Also I saw his antiwar speech in Daley Plaza in the fall of 2002 and was struck by how conservative it sounded. He was against the planned invasion of Iraq because it would be a “strategic mistake” — a “dumb war.” I and others on the acual left (such as it is) were already writing and speaking against the planned it as a CRIME rooted in brazenly imperial/petro-colonial designs for deepening U.S. control of Middle Eastern oil. Obama has said that the oil motive (obvious to anyone with basic knowledge of U.S. foreign policy) is a “cynical” thing to bring up and that Iraq was invaded with the “best of intentions” —- to promote democracy and freedom (he just disagrees with the strategic wisdom of acting on the wonderful intention of exporting Jeffersonian liberty).
I think its cynical for him to say that its cynical to talk about the role of oil. Just saw Gore speak in Des Moines (two nights ago) and he talked about oil as a big motive in the invasion – not the way I would talk about it, but he talked about it.