I'm not going to go through this in detail, but just quickly hit the highlights then discuss what this will mean for ordinary people and the economy.
Fundamentally it's the Treasury Secretary to spend pretty much as he chooses, with meaningless oversight, up to 700 billion or the debt limit. In theory it's "whichever is less" in practice it's going to be "whichever is more". Add to this the end of mark to the end of mark to market, and the move to mark to "whatever the bank says its worth" and banks are going to be allowed to stay alive no matter whether they're solvent or not as long as their cash flow doesn't go so far negative it can't be papered over the world's favorite wallpaper, the US buck. Zombie banks plus all the money flooding into trying to stop deleveraging from wiping out said financial institutions means this is a Japanification plan.
Japan had its own bubble back in the 80's. When it popped the Japanese decide that they would not force banks to write down their losses. Instead they left them on the books. Those of you who are old enough will remember when Japan was the economy of the future, who built the best stuff and were destroying everyone else. After the bubble popped that all ended. The world's most vibrant economy went into a long economic slump from which it never recovered. This wasn't a classic depression—there wasn't a huge immediate contraction. Things just generally got lousy - unemployment rose somewhat, jobs stagnated, no one had a lot of money. The good times never, ever, came back ever again. It was like being caught in a low grade recession, all the time.
That's what this bill will do in the most likely scenario. The US will go into recession, every once in a while it will seem to pop out, then it will drop again. Because the US has population growth, and Japan doesn't, the actual numbers will look better than Japan's, but the feeling of "there are no jobs anywhere" and "this economy sucks" will be pervasive. This will translate into a grinding down of Americans standards of living.
The reason this happens is that all the money that could be used to increase output and productivity or to decrease input problems (by, say, reducing the amount of oil and other commodities used) will be all be being used to prop up the current financial structure. 750 billion dollars, and this is key, is not going to be enough. Folks on Wall Street are already saying so. More money is going to keep flying into the structure to keep it from deleveraging in an uncontrolled fashion, and thus wiping out lots of rich people. I figure they'll be back for more money in 6 months, 9 max. 3 months wouldn't surprise me, since Paulson has a lot of incentive to use up his full allowance while he's still Secretary. After he does so the problem will still exist and the next Treasury Secretary will be back looking for more.
Now, if that money hits the real economy in a significant way, it will lead to inflation, and in my earlier writing that's what I figured would happen. But on consideration, I think the downturn in the economy combined with the sheer sucking power of the leveraged financial structure which has to be kept from collapsing means that very little of that money is, in fact, going to get to the real economy and what does won't be sufficient to overcome demand contraction. Simply put, the financial masters of the universe owe more money than exists in the entire universe. So their need is going to be pretty close to endless. 10 years minimum, probably 20. Maybe 30. Who knows... but certainly not a one time injection. If 700 billion was their total losses, they wouldn't actually need a bail out.
Note that Japanification was always the plan of the "neconomy", or Busheconomy if you prefer. It was always the endgame? Why? Because Japanification makes the winners of the final game permanent. All extra money in the system will be pumped to the people who made the bad decisions that crashed the prior economy, they will stay in power and because there isn't a dynamic economy left, no one is likely to rise to replace them.
Note also that this money is entirely fictional. We are now into a real "paper" money system. For all that they aren't actually printing it, this is the modern equivalent of just saying "we need more money? Well, we are the government. Run the presses hot."
For ordinary people this means a long gray suck. The US is in worse condition to handle this than the Japanese were. It has a trade deficit and its government is hemorraging red ink. Foreigners will start lending again, but that's because they know they're going to get a lot of the bailout cash, which means their real rate of return on the treasuries is going to be a lot more than nominal (no no, ordinary citizens like you do not get this money. You will, however, pay and pay and pay for it.) Standards of living, which have been essentially stagnant with a slight decrease in the last few years, will start a steep decline. Nominal housing values may or may not fully crash, but if they don't, you'll find it very hard to find anyone to sell your house to—the housing club will become one for people who are already in it. Those who aren't won't be able to afford the overinflated prices, because only people who can sell at high prices will be able to buy at high prices.
Because the US does not run a balance of payments surplus this is a game that can't go on forever, as it has in Japan. The US still needs outside money and that money will get more and more expensive and will eventually be turned off entirely. How long? Two to four years is my guess. At that point the US will be forced to go to the IMF (which, arguably, it should be doing right now, when it can use special drawing rights with no catch except a prestige loss.) At first the IMF will lend with no conditions. Then it will lend with conditions. You will not like those conditions. At all. Since Obama will be in office and will be associated with this mess (fairly enough, since he whipped for the bill) the right will run populist right wing and odds are very good that they will win. 2013 will likely see a populist right wing government in the US.
There are some ways this could break down. Running the printing presses hot could lead to runaway inflation (I am amazed that all Chicago school economists are not up in arms over this plan, actually. They apparently don't believe what they teach.) The outside world could decide to really cut the US off, causing a devastating currency drop on the order of 40% or so. The deleveraging may be so vicious that even throwing a few trillion dollars at it and letting banks pretend that it's really worth whatever they say it is, doesn't work, in which case, probably a full fledged depression, since the money to fix things right will have just been flushed down the toilet.
And there are some ways this could be fixed. A lot of economists, like Stiglitz, are betting that Obama will eventually do a real bailout bill. We'll see. He made no real push to fix this bill at all that I am aware of and his various economic policies have long indicated to me that he is essentially a gentler kinder Reaganite in economic terms, so I'm not so sure. Still, there are solutions, and I'll talk about some of them in future, as I have in the past. The question is whether there will be any political will to do them. When you can pass a 700 billion bailout for the rich, but putting in real changes in bankruptcy laws to allow folks to keep their houses is unthinkable, it's clear that the elite consensus is still that the little people are always to be made to pay to clean up their betters mistakes. Until that attitude changes, very little useful is likely to get through Congress.
Everyone will be very interested in this again soon enough. In the meantime I wish you all, my readers, the best of luck and good health. I will repeat my standard advice that the most important thing in an economic downturn, by far, is not so much which securities your money is in, but how good your relationship is with your family, friends, neighbors, and most especially, your spouse.
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country first, ian
let those in government eat chinese cake. i hear a little melamine is good for ya. *wink*
the lack of real economic stability is scaring the crap out of me. rich people pulling up the drawbridge.
Has anyone else noticed how shifty-eyed and uncomfortable mcsame gets when anyone mentions government issue health care?
We could just make ‘em all food tasters for McShame?
I’d love to see that tattooed on a few Congressional foreheads.
Our local food banks have been running on borderline-empty all this year and more.
Digg please
Paulson and chimpy look quite giddy.
It’s no surprise that Campbell Soup’s stock is the only one doing well this week.
EPU’ed
I wanted to pass this on but couldn’t find the time or the thread to put it in. But with the release of today’s job numbers, creation of jobs in 7 3/4 years of Bush fell below 5 million to 4,849,000. Clinton created 22,760,000 in his 8 years. So Bush’s record of job creation is 21.3% that of Clinton.
Clinton was actually able to increase manufacturing jobs modestly by 237,000. Bush OTOH has managed to lose 3,734,000 of these higher paying jobs and they now comprise only 9.74% of the work force down from 12.92% in January 2001.
Whenever Palin says that she and McCain want to create jobs, the numbers speak for themselves. Republicans are an unremitting, relentless disaster when it comes to creating jobs.
In Akron OH yesterday, a 90 year old woman shot herself because the authorities were coming to serve forclosure papers on her $30,000 house. She survived so far, and is in the hospital with multiple wounds.
Those serving the forclosure notice said they had no idea she was 90.
Cognitive disconnect, anyone? Humanity??!?
Tip of the iceberg…
There you go again, Ian, being all optimistic and such./s
Your analysis is right on the money (and everything else as well)!
Yep, ‘they’ve’ put themselves in power (and total control) for all perpetuity or the end of the world, whichever comes first.
‘They’ had a lot of help from the Political Class, who have, clearly signalled where their true allegience lies (lies, lies, and damned lies).
Let us remain resolutely hopeful.
Or ….
“No war but class war, now.”
Dow slips into negative they sure seem happy
are you referring to when the des moines register put him on the spot about his free healthcare? I’d like to point out that even when he wasn’t living in one of his eight mansions and had only a mudhut or whatever, he was STILL COVERED.
These are some pretty telling statistics
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/419
Why is the Depression repeatedly called the Great Depression? To hear my grampa tell it it wasn’t so great. My dad’s most vivid memory (he was 9 in 1933) was eating corn flakes with water instead of milk. I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that small businesses are gonna be in deep doo doo after Xmas, if not before.
“it’s all about job creation.”
thanks hugh. One of things this thinking mammal enjoyed about the debate is that biden drew back the curtain on many of mccain’s claims. imho.
Sorry no winners owning stock in companies that barely go up in response to inflation and population means that you are really not increasing your money.
Also stocks that pay dividends get favored in such am environment along with what ever hot stock the Insiders and Press anoint with Crisco oil like John Ashcroft does before they ram it up the
SheepStockbrokers.Smart money will move to foreign markets looking for growth. Long term liquidity will be worse.
Go ahead. Mention that in public. You’ll elicit his standard speech about being a POW “under some other government’s healthcare,” after which he grins THAT weird, space-cadet grin while looking as if he’d strangle a starving child without a second thought.
very interesting analysis from bernhard (with charts!). haven’t had time to digest it yet but thought it would be of interest here.
1,783 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Ian Welsh and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
In my opinion, there is nuthin’ that could have been done differently legislatively that anyone could do to ameliorate this “crisis” as long as the fascists control the White House…if that is true, then the gamble that Obama led us into is simply that the Treasury and the Fed will not be able ta obligate all $700 billion before the new administration and Congress are sworn in.
What stands in the way of a new administration and new Congress from rewriting this last larcenous piece of garbage and instituting the changes to the tax and regulatory structures that need changin’ in January? Isn’t what happened here the last scorched earth attack on the treasury by the Freidmanbots, usin’ politics and the nearness of the election to cover their tails? Is this $700 billion increase in debt the straw that broke the economy, or can it be shuffled back into the market for the hedge funds and speculators ta take the hit?
It seems ta this old scandinavian that Obama had ta end this “crisis” distraction in order ta get to the election without givin’ the fascists a “game changin’” issue. This has been politics and extortion and why can’t it be undone fairly quickly in January?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS JEST A BATTLE, THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES!!
Heh:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....287/619084
“It took ten years to raise the minimum rage a buck forty.
And now we’re being stampeded into a disastrous bailout deal by the same traitorous motherfuckers who have rammed down our throats the:
USA Patriot Act
Military Commissions Act
Domestic Spying
Retroactive immunity for violators of FISA
The abomination of the Iraq war
The torture of helpless prisoners
Suspension of Habeas Corpus
Dismantling of Posse Comitatus
Free Speech Zones
The Katrina nightmare
Deregulation of Everything
Mercenary Armies in America
All while ignoring everything that really matters:………”
The entire diary…very satisfying. Burp.
Dow slips into negative
One of the front pagers said the other day, “Debt is money.” It’s easy to live on credit when you don’t have to pay any of it back.
Thank you!
That is my hope I hope Obama is just saying what he thinks he has to until he gets to the White House. Would Obama have to scrap the current bailout deal though to do a real bailout what ever that may be?
Or will Paulson and Helicopter Ben have SPENT EVERY SINGLE DIME JUST TO MAKE SURE OBAMA DOES NOT GET IT!
Our Dear Leader assures us that it will take some time before we can see the positive effects of this bailout to take place. enough time for him and paulsen to skip town. they’re smiling their big alligator smiles today, that’s for sure.
My take: Any increase in jobs under the Rethugs has been in the hospitality and service sectors. Any job that actually produces a commodity has been outsourced.
Creeping up again, but it’s yo-yoing.
the political will is up to us to provide.
(my bold)
Extortion. that’s it in a soundbite, norske.
A war suggests that there are casualties on both sides. I haven’t seen any casualties of the plutocrats and aristocrats. Only the middle class and workers. This isn’t class warfare, it is class massacre and we know who is suffering.
And she be bankrupted by medical bills…
i don’t understand why you think that. obama’s economic advisors, his previous votes all seem consistent with the view that this is what he really wanted. what am i missing?
so. i guess paulson can skip that zillionth botox injection after all…
anyone else out here freaked out by his totally smooth countenance?
he talks, i think, but nothing moves.
i keep looking for the tell-tale bump under his jacket.
I replace the comma with a period and capitalize the n. Changes the emphasis.
No war but class war. Now.
The next 6 months are going to be vellllllly intellesting.
final throes?
seizures?
If they don’t listen to us now in the current heated crisis moment, why would they listen to us later? I guess Norske has the answer to my question: extortion.
What we’ve done is simply wealth transfer from the many to the few. Bailing out Wall Street is only the final act of this process. And we engaged in this quest with such force and thoroughness that there isn’t enough money left for a functionally healthy economy.
This ultimately can’t work to the advantage of the few, unless they recognize that resources are finite and that endless growth isn’t possible - in which case they may accept having all of a finite satchel of cash.
Trickle down never worked, the world has always been trickle up. And when the few suck up all the assets, the many can no longer create that trickle. Consider a King who expropriates everything that the eye can see. What’s left? Nada.
Meanwhile, even our shared assets, roads, airports, seaports, and eventually land, is being sold off to the highest bidder - so that the polity has nothing but the clothes on its collective backs.
What is the answer? Having created this by the world’s largest wealth transfer (in other words welfare) program, we need to correct this situation by the same means. Only by moving money back from the few to the polity, and the many of whom it is made, will we recover a healthy economy and healthy environment. This can be the modern fall of the Roman empire, or we can learn how to fight back and restore a working economy.
I appreciate Biden’s theme of fairness last night.
Palin got up there like a true soulseller to tell people to vote against their interests because she’s one of them. And she is. that’s what so sad. McCain is a blueblood posing as a war hero.
link from a previous thread (don’t remember who, sorry):
I know. Borrowed $$ up at least 10,000 more than the house was appraised.
Now what thoughtful soul will own up to having done that to her? Those serving the papers said they had no clue. SOMEone did!?!
If you just got a %700 Billion windfall, you’d prolly be a little dizzy as well … *g*
He’s workin’ on my taking the name Sardonicus back from Bill “The Grin” Kristol and applyin’ it to McSFB. There’s something about people who grin like they’ve just killed some defenseless creature and shot their wad in their pants. Creeps me out.
or maybe they disagree with us? isn’t that possible?
OT - Just came in from teaching and saw the response of Palin to the Michigan abandonment. She was arguing against it, saying several times, “Todd and I….” “Todd and I” “Todd and I” could go back to Michigan and turn it around. Take that, old wrinkly white dude.
scares me.
Having a nephew as a Marine, I can tell you that unfortunately he’s right.
Your Armed Forces are severely depleted and it will take a few years to get them back up to full force.
Whoops! Just noticed an extra $70,000 in my retirement account that wasn’t there last night. They’ve been having some accounting problems, but how soon do I need to call this to their attention? Anybody else noticing some cash stashing in unusual places?
As always, your analysis is thoughtful, most reasonable, and most importantly, Norske, hopeful, and thereby especially helpful for the rest of us.
How much of the loot do you suppose will be gone by a certain date in January of next year?
Clearly, Paulson and ‘Helicopter Ben’ intend to do their utmost to insure that none remains.
If Obama is deliberately taking such a risk, then perhaps he will have the courage to take the still greater risks of actually rebuilding ‘trust’ in the legimate (and necessary) role of government, as well as the infrastructure nation and the well-being of its peoples, and not just simply pander to those most comfortably ensconsed at the top.
Money pundits are all scratching their heads about why the market has not reacted positively to the bill passage….
Right retail get 2/3 of business from hoildays sale…which by the way the buy on credit…then in January have to settle debt. Many will close. Main Street will not look good.
That there was no provisions to help families stay in their homes is just criminal, Shame onf congress, Bushco and Wall Street. They are the terrorists.
ya know, you’re right.
Sarah was as incoherent as most of today’s Rap Artists, so maybe she would appeal to their fans …
You want a body count Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual the CEOs with golden parachutes is not getting what they had before the economy tanked in stock options that and most of them will all be trying to apply for jobs in a field where the survivors are downsizing.
Well off is a relative thing expenses almost always rise with income I can’t think of a single market making money right now.
What is there to be afraid of?
there are lots of things that are severely depleted. i don’t think our security depends on spending as much as the rest of the world combined on weapons, war and the MIC.
would like to see all the funding necessary to care for the vets though.
… leading to the inevitable realization that … *gasp* … they need annuder bailout right quick …
I agree. Obama had no choice. The hope is, as Reverend Wright contends, Obama is more activist than he lets on. Not only can we revise the tax code to tax the rich and put that money into invention and infrastructure, we may also be forced to rewrite the national debt, kind of a countrywide Chapter 11. Our creditors may go for it. Hyper inflation is in no one’s interest.
I wonder what they’ll be celebrating with tonight…cocktails and weanies, followed by champagne and filet mignon, etc…while the country starts hoarding rice and beans and cake…
I’m suggesting that the ‘upper’ classes have been waging said ‘war’ for nigh on sixty years, and that it is time for us to start fighting (nonviolently) that war as if it actually matters. Because it does.
What do you think?
Absolutely, the vets from all Wars have to be given first rate care.
Thanks for the clarification, SD.
“No war but class war. Now!”
(Couldn’t resist the immediacy of the ‘point’)
;~D
Maybe they decided to destroy the middle class so that all the “workers” are forced to work for “their” corporations at slave labor rates in order to survive? Then…they wouldn’t have to bother their beautiful minds with shipping business offshore.
Me too.
Here I come with my nitwit bobblehead routine again, so go ahead and slap me down folks. I’ll just pop up again, senseless but grasping and annoyingly persistent.
I. TRUST. THAT. OBAMA. AND. BIDEN. WILL. TRY. TO. SET. THINGS RIGHT.
to the extent that they are able.
I believe the Clintons will help them. And others.
By nature, I am not a naive person. I normally tend more toward suspicious, if anything.
You cannot prove me wrong YET. Can you?! Admit it. Stick your neck out.
Double dare ya!
Her arrogance is utterly stunning. This woman appears to think that she could leap tall buildings without working up a sweat. I don’t understand where all this comes from - she’s as dumb as a table.
I agree with you.
Agreed! I think it’s incumbent that it be non-violent. The first step will be to prepare for massive demonstrations on Nov. 5th because I have little doubt that the Republicans will attempt to steal this election. Through voter suppression and computer sabotage there is the distinct possibility that they will steal another one. If the exit polls don’t match the final tally the media and the ruling elites will explain it away as the “Bradley Effect.” It’s important to have a strategy to be on the streets in a non-violent fashion to say NO to the media and the ruling elites.
Dammit Twain, why’d ya have to go and insult Tables … *g*
not “normal”, is it?! i’m one of those who thinks he’s “not all there,” that it’s critically important that somehow his medical records are seized and made public ASAP.
early voting is starting as we speak…
I would ask all of you to do one better … make sure your friends and relatives are properly registered, that they know where they have to go to vote and get them to vote early …
Best thing we can do to help the small business owner is to buy nothing in corporate chains and pay cash. Had some big/mid-sized purchases sked for the holidays? Scale it down, put a little dough away and buy smaller, more meaningful gifts from local businesspeople and crafts folks. Remember, when you use a credit card the card company gets about 3% of the purchase total right off the top from the retailer. If you just have to buy online use a debit card. When you go to the store take a neighbor or two with you. Saves gas and you get to know your neighbors better.
Just a small part of class warfare.
ya’ll some gloomy motherfuckers, take a walk or sumthin
*giggle*
They’ve been waging it since man decided that he could own part of Mother Earth.
So, you are saying that the ‘progressive’ community will have to put its bodies where its mouth is?
Couldn’t agree more, Bluetoe, couldn’t agree more.
But it would well behoove us to have our ‘collective’ thoughts far more clear and coherent, than heretofor.
As Southern Dragon says the next six months are critical (and will very likely determine our future AND our collective fate).
Make no mistake. Voters got out in record numbers in Ohio in 2004 and through the wizardry of a computer geek Kerry’s votes mysteriously flipped for Bush. This is going to happen on a massive scale on Nov. 4th. Kerry won in 2004, he just didn’t have the courage to do the right thing and fight the theft. Massive demonstrations on the streets to protest treasonous larceny on Nov. 5th will tell Obama that the people have his back.
me too.
would have some confidence if he had explained his change of heart. there’s a reason we called him the senator from MBNA and he has yet to do anything to counter that.
Works for me. The ruling class has thrown down the gauntlet.
Link please?
Gloomy? I ain’t gloomy. This is opportunity.
Loosehead got’s the word in the new post.
Re defense spending, replenishing hardware destroyed, damaged, or worn out in war IIRC would cost around $50 billion. I tried to find a link. The best I came up with was this from 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01347.html
which talks about spending $17 to $19 billion for several years to re-equip. It is hard to say how much wear and tear on equipment will decline as troops are shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan but there should be some savings.
But getting rid of Bush’s defensive missile shield, which doesn’t work would save $9 billion a year.
I agree. There needs to be a nationwide coordinating committee to organize such an effort. These demonstrations have to include men, women, young, old, black, white and brown, students and teachers, retirees and unemployed, even the rich if they have a conscious, a true cross section of the real America. If we aren’t organized this time it will be another fait accompli.
Yes, about the time agriculture was invented (by women), some guy decided that since ‘wealth’ could now be grown and stored, that he and a few fellows ought to take control.
Then he noticed a tribe over in the next valley who had more. So the only solution was to go to war because, obviously, these other people represented a ‘threat’, and, equally obviously, if the ‘us’ folks don’t do in the ‘them’ folks, the ‘them’ folks would do in the ‘us’ folks.
Same old, same old..
Flipping numbers in a computer can be done by a 1st semester C programming student. Simple “if” or “switch” statement (depending upon how many candidates ya wanna steal votes from) in the counting algorithm.
Cause for hope?
He wasn’t working with Obama before… That could be a biggy. It had better be!
thanks. bringing our troops home would save even more.
and remember to check www.canivote.org if you have already registered. check and doublecheck and don’t take no shit at the polls!
crisis and opportuniy
It will only save us from borrowing the money to pay for the occupation but they’re gonna blow that deal by re-invading Afghanistan.
Palin looked a little surprised that her lines weren’t working on Biden. Like when she smugly asked why he was trying to redistribute wealth.
Bam! Fairness, baby! Bam! Wealthy got wealthier on middle class backs! Bam!
Palin’s response. Oh. that talking point didn’t work.
while plucking the stuffing from our mattress
Yeppur.
They’d steal yer drawers if it suited ‘em.
don’t forget pakistan. :(
“Best thing we can do to help the small business owner is to buy nothing in corporate chains and pay cash.”
You have nailed it. They put us in this situations, Scaling doen the middle class. We that are excluded have to use a different business plan for survival. We have to spend more effort on staying healthy. healthy food, healthier lifestyles and save even with less icome.
Grwo your own food as much as posibble. No debt period. Cut back. Drive less walk and bicycle and carpool.
Yes support your small merchant snub the corprorate box store even it cist a little more. Put the financial clamps on big corp as theyu have on us.
It is a class war. And the conglomerates run “K’ street and have bought/coopted our elected officials. That is reality we saw it today.
Find as many neighbors and get a common cause like nieghborhood watch, Food bank and Nieghborhood swaps. Collaborate and coalition if you want to survive. Government has failed us despite taxing us for failed serices.
Back to the salt mine.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Changing to a healthy, frugal lifestyle never killed anybody.
Yep, oddly enough, the best we’ve had in quite a while.
If reason hasn’t ‘reached’ people’s consciousness, then reality just might.
Besides, what have we all spent our lives prepareing for if not this?
We are fotunate souls to be called to ‘action’ in such a time as this.
Even if it doesn’t seem that way, we stand on the edge of possibility unlike ANY in my sixty-odd years. Of that I am certain.
The question is this: Will we rise to the occassion and the desperate needs of this opportunity?
Raven all due respect we need to prepare for what is coming to some and has been with a lot of us. We need to organise and plab. We need each other. The political effort did not get the job done. Obama just gave up his treasury that could have provided the safety net during this japonification. People who are not prepared will drag others down.
Depends upon how serious each individual is about changing the world we live on.
I just read Timothy Egan’s book, “The Worst Hard Time” about the Great Depression in the Dust Bowl states (Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska & Colorado). It is gripping reading. There were parts that brought tears to my eyes. It was especially searing for me as I grew up in Western Kansas hearing harrowing stories from my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents about the horrors they lived through. It sure brings the present day into sharper focus as to what can happen. People have no idea how bad it can get, nor do I think many people are equipped to survive something like that these days.
I am so disgusted that it only took Bush less than 8 years to completely destroy this country and every thing we ever stood for. It’s not going to be pretty from here on for a long, long time.
bigbrother I started preparing in 1966. Thanks for the tip.
Ah yes, the human world changes, one mind at a time.
Citizen selise:
Enough already…there is absolutely NOTHIN’ in Obama’s history or in his political interest that would indicate that he won’t undo this piece a garbage…stop shootin’ your allies Citizen selise…as I said yesterday, I am sick of the left in this country thowin’ the baby out and drinkin’ the bath water…stop it…ENOUGH!!!
Adie, that story breaks my heart. By process of deduction I conclude that the 90 year old woman’s mortgage was probably the result of a home equity loan. I am 74 years old and weekly get offers for home equity loans on my modest debt-free home. Now I ask you, what responsible lending entity makes loans to persons my age? And what REALLY is their motive? Old woman dies before loan paid off or cannot make the payments, so foreclosure and loan company gets property dirt cheap.
It seems that no matter the professed religous belief, most people’s real God is GREED.
Thanks to you folks here at FDL I can still have faith that there are in America some people of good will. I appreciate every one of your postings here.
My parents were married the year before the market crashed in 1929. They had been born and raised in Oklahoma and I have some Depression habits I learned from them. I’ll have to read that book!
there is no reason to type in all caps, it’s so disturbing. If people want to prattle along with the same shit day-in-and-day-out you need to just suck it up and listen.
Materialism is going out. Shop til you drop is slowing. The Gross National Product and consumption growth reqiuirement of this economy is driving globsl destruction and climate change.
There is plenty to enjoy in life without things.
Ther is plemty of “stuff” stored in garages we can use instead of new stuff.
Every keep in mind Joe Hill’s last comment before he was hung by the state of Utah, “Don’t mourn, organize!”
We might even get to the place, as genuine human beings, where we can manage to find a better measure of ’success’, than money.
Imagine that.
;~D
“Loan to Own”
Forgot, Joe Hill wasn’t hung. He died in front of a firing squad. He shouted out “Fire” to the firing squad.
Citizen Raven:
Bless yer hardassed heart there, Brother Freebird, but I get so fuckin’ tired of folks on our side shootin’ at all the friendlies in the room and lettin’ the fascist bastards out the back door with the money and the women!
I was kiddin
I figured the all caps comment would be a dead give away
Brother Raven:
I know dear …I know…it’s jest that I get worried that some of our brothers and sisters have forgotten who the fuckin’ enemy is!
People are locked into their own shit. Maybe livin on borrowed time for 40 years gives a certain perspective, beats me.
Yes, I have lots of Depression habits, too, picked up from my parents and grandparents in daily living! These old habits have just become ingrained in me.
Ian,
I would not fret, personally, about Obama not trying harder to fix the bill or getting a good follow-up on the docket.
He knows full well that NOTHING good can come out of a nearly evenly divided congress and an oval office held by President Fumblenuts. He could easily spend all of his time going crazy trying to get something reasonable passed, but junior senators usually don’t have the pull to get this sort of thing done. More importantly, in doing so, he would neglect the most important job he has: getting elected.
Reportedly, Obama spent time last week cornering other legislators about what should be done as a next step. McCain is not doing this (like THAT is a big surprise). I have no doubt that Obama knows that this is not over. He will certainly take the issue up again when we have a Democratic administration and a (much more) Democratic congress.
The challenge NOW is avoiding a full-on crash before we can address the crisis in a more progressive manner January. The good news is that in 1929 the nation still had to suffer through 4 long years of ineffectual Republican rule before FDR could start digging us out of the hole in 1933. If we can swap-out the free-market boot-strapping MORONS in November, we might be able to avoid a full-on global depression.
Control is what matters, and options will be given out at below current values to make sure that the important people make plenty of money.
You have a lot more confidence in Obama than I do. If just getting to January was the goal there were a lot cheaper ways to do it, which probably could have passed with bipartisan support.
The bill was passed with majority Dem support and the majority of Republicans voted against it. The people who just ran out of the room with the loot were Democrats.
Citizen Raven:
Bless yer heart but we’re all livin’ on borrowed time aren’t we…I guess that’s what we learned way back when we were young and soldiers…I jest get so tired lately Brother Raven, my kids are the only thing keepin me in the ring…that is, I owe it ta my kids ta stay in this thing since my generation left ‘em with this shitty mess…but thanx again Bro, we do carry a heavy load, don’t we?
Gold is what is driving me crazy. It seems to be totally disconnected from reality. Some people in the “gold bug” forums suggest that the only way for this situation be be is that “someone” is manipulating the gold market to keep it depressed/lower than it otherwise should be. Some of the reason may be to discourage people diving into gold in the first place (because of less than stellar returns) so that they are forced to put their money into stocks, etc, to try to keep money flowing in the capital markets.
What say you Ian?
I’m guessing that there are several large commodity traders (who are in trouble) who are holding significant positions in gold. Sudden needs by any of these large traders to liquidate commodities as their bad paper unwinds could put downward pressure on gold for a little while. This is what is happening with oil now.
But but but…why the 700 billion freebie? Why not do the right thing and ONLY provide 150 billion to get us through until the next Congress can actually dig in and to something better, and right? By handing over the ENTIRE wad, the powder is burned off in a flash.
The Dems in the House SHOULD have gone with the Senate plan, but cut the 700 billion down to 150 or 200 billion with the full-on declaration that the entire thing will be revisted in January 2009 and a more permanent and FAIR fix set up. Instead, they shot their load early.
Some gold bugs are indicating that believe that gold will bottom out around November and hold that bottom for a short while before it inexorably starts a rapid climb again.
I got antsy last month and bought several thousand worth of gold coins. Since then I’ve lost several hundred but intend to hold onto it. If November comes around and the price is hitting sub-700s again, as they predict, I may buy more. But then I am relying on these people and don’t really know what the hell I’m doing other than trying to cover my ass with something that NEVER goes to zero value (unlike paper money or stocks).
Democrats, schmemocrats, they are mostly all part of the Political Class, who are (as is now blatantly obvious) firmly in the pockets of the Ruling Class …
Norske’s just doing some audacious hope-mongering, which has several aspects of real value. It helps some here with their despair, and, if Obama is paying even the slightest attention, it might move him to consider a better use of what meager resources we’ve got than endless warfare and giving even more to the already obscenely wealthy. Perhaps Obama considers this most recent ‘hand out’ to the uber rich as their last?
Who knows? While I agree with you about 1000 per cent, you will acknowledge, no doubt, that ALL of our hopes are feeling a wee bit thread-bare at the moment.
And a very cold breeze is blowing …
I signed on to DIGG just for this article (Excellent, Ian!).
Above at story shows 15 DIGGS but at DIGG total is 17 including mine.
Granted, there were cheaper ways to do this. Like yourself, I am not happy about buying bad paper at top-dollar. It is a travesty.
But, this doesn’t have to be forever.
Special taxes and one-time levies (to fund the bailout of main-street) can be made on companies in January that “stick it to us” now. If the Democrats are savvy enough, they can even call it the “Rescue Main Street” bill and nobody in their right mind could vote against it.
(OK, OK… the terms “Democrat” and “savvy” together form an oxymoron…)
700B ‘cuz everyone KNOWS that there isn’t enough money extent in ALL world markets to buy all the bad paper, and 150B would send the signal that we’re not “serious” and nobody would lend it to us.
150B would be just fine if we were to do something as breathtakingly rational as deal with the failing mortgages. But… we’re not. Right now. So… 700B.
I haven’t read all the comments, so perhaps this was addressed. I just heard another talking head from DC (from a prior unnamed administration) who said the $700 billion can only be spent at the rate of $50 billion per month. Any truth to this? If so, perhaps a new president can change direction with only $200 billion or so spent?
Citizen Ian Welsh:
What the fuck??!! “The people who just ran out of the room with the loot are Democrats.” Give me a God damned break here and answer my question above: is the $700 billion gunna be obligated and break the economy before Obama can take office?
As always, thanks Ian.
This is the complete list of those who sold the American people out. Come Nov 4th return the favor and vote them out.
**********************Yea : 263 Members
Spencer Bachus (R-AL)
Jo Bonner (R-AL)
Robert Cramer (D-AL)
Artur Davis (D-AL)
Terry Everett (R-AL)
Michael Rogers (R-AL)
Marion Berry (D-AR)
John Boozman (R-AR)
Mike Ross (D-AR)
Vic Snyder (D-AR)
Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ)
Harry Mitchell (D-AZ)
Ed Pastor (D-AZ)
John Shadegg (R-AZ)
Joe Baca (D-CA)
Howard Berman (D-CA)
Mary Bono Mack (R-CA)
Ken Calvert (R-CA)
John Campbell (R-CA)
Lois Capps (D-CA)
Dennis Cardoza (D-CA)
Jim Costa (D-CA)
Susan Davis (D-CA)
David Dreier (R-CA)
Anna Eshoo (D-CA)
Sam Farr (D-CA)
Jane Harman (D-CA)
Wally Herger (R-CA)
Michael Honda (D-CA)
Barbara Lee (D-CA)
Jerry Lewis (R-CA)
Zoe Lofgren (D-CA)
Dan Lungren (R-CA)
Doris Matsui (D-CA)
Howard McKeon (R-CA)
Gerald McNerney (D-CA)
Gary Miller (R-CA)
George Miller (D-CA)
Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
George Radanovich (R-CA)
Laura Richardson (D-CA)
Adam Schiff (D-CA)
Hilda Solis (D-CA)
Jackie Speier (D-CA)
Ellen Tauscher (D-CA)
Mike Thompson (D-CA)
Maxine Waters (D-CA)
Diane Watson (D-CA)
Henry Waxman (D-CA)
Lynn Woolsey (D-CA)
Diana DeGette (D-CO)
Ed Perlmutter (D-CO)
Thomas Tancredo (R-CO)
Rosa DeLauro (D-CT)
John Larson (D-CT)
Christopher Murphy (D-CT)
Christopher Shays (R-CT)
Michael Castle (R-DE)
F. Allen Boyd (D-FL)
Corrine Brown (D-FL)
Vern Buchanan (R-FL)
Ander Crenshaw (R-FL)
Alcee Hastings (D-FL)
Ron Klein (D-FL)
Timothy Mahoney (D-FL)
Kendrick Meek (D-FL)
Adam Putnam (R-FL)
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL)
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL)
Dave Weldon (R-FL)
Robert Wexler (D-FL)
Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
John Lewis (D-GA)
Jim Marshall (D-GA)
David Scott (D-GA)
Neil Abercrombie (D-HI)
Mazie Hirono (D-HI)
Leonard Boswell (D-IA)
Bruce Braley (D-IA)
Dave Loebsack (D-IA)
Mike Simpson (R-ID)
Melissa Bean (D-IL)
Judy Biggert (R-IL)
Danny Davis (D-IL)
Rahm Emanuel (D-IL)
Bill Foster (D-IL)
Luis Gutierrez (D-IL)
Phil Hare (D-IL)
Jesse Jackson (D-IL)
Mark Kirk (R-IL)
Ray LaHood (R-IL)
Bobby Rush (D-IL)
Janice Schakowsky (D-IL)
Jerry Weller (R-IL)
Andre Carson (D-IN)
Joe Donnelly (D-IN)
Brad Ellsworth (D-IN)
Mark Souder (R-IN)
Dennis Moore (D-KS)
Ron Lewis (R-KY)
Harold Rogers (R-KY)
John Yarmuth (D-KY)
Rodney Alexander (R-LA)
Charles Boustany (R-LA)
Jim McCrery (R-LA)
Charlie Melancon (D-LA)
Michael Capuano (D-MA)
Barney Frank (D-MA)
Edward Markey (D-MA)
James McGovern (D-MA)
Richard Neal (D-MA)
John Olver (D-MA)
John Tierney (D-MA)
Niki Tsongas (D-MA)
Elijah Cummings (D-MD)
Donna Edwards (D-MD)
Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD)
Steny Hoyer (D-MD)
C.A. Ruppersberger (D-MD)
John Sarbanes (D-MD)
Chris Van Hollen (D-MD)
Thomas Allen (D-ME)
Dave Camp (R-MI)
John Dingell (D-MI)
Vernon Ehlers (R-MI)
Peter Hoekstra (R-MI)
Dale Kildee (D-MI)
Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-MI)
Joseph Knollenberg (R-MI)
Sander Levin (D-MI)
Fred Upton (R-MI)
Keith Ellison (D-MN)
John Kline (R-MN)
Betty McCollum (D-MN)
James Oberstar (D-MN)
Jim Ramstad (R-MN)
Roy Blunt (R-MO)
Russ Carnahan (D-MO)
Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO)
Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO)
Ike Skelton (D-MO)
Charles Pickering (R-MS)
Howard Coble (R-NC)
Bob Etheridge (D-NC)
Brad Miller (D-NC)
Sue Myrick (R-NC)
David Price (D-NC)
Melvin Watt (D-NC)
Earl Pomeroy (D-ND)
Lee Terry (R-NE)
Robert Andrews (D-NJ)
Michael Ferguson (R-NJ)
Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ)
Rush Holt (D-NJ)
Frank Pallone (D-NJ)
Bill Pascrell (D-NJ)
Jim Saxton (R-NJ)
Albio Sires (D-NJ)
Heather Wilson (R-NM)
Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Jon Porter (R-NV)
Gary Ackerman (D-NY)
Michael Arcuri (D-NY)
Tim Bishop (D-NY)
Yvette Clarke (D-NY)
Joseph Crowley (D-NY)
Eliot Engel (D-NY)
Vito Fossella (R-NY)
John Hall (D-NY)
Brian Higgins (D-NY)
Steve Israel (D-NY)
Peter King (R-NY)
Randy Kuhl (R-NY)
Nita Lowey (D-NY)
Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY)
John McHugh (R-NY)
Michael McNulty (D-NY)
Gregory Meeks (D-NY)
Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
Charles Rangel (D-NY)
Thomas Reynolds (R-NY)
Louise McIntosh Slaughter (D-NY)
Edolphus Towns (D-NY)
Nydia Velazquez (D-NY)
James Walsh (R-NY)
Anthony Weiner (D-NY)
John Boehner (R-OH)
David Hobson (R-OH)
Deborah Pryce (R-OH)
Ralph Regula (R-OH)
Tim Ryan (D-OH)
Jean s****** (R-OH)
Zack Space (D-OH)
Betty Sutton (D-OH)
Patrick Tiberi (R-OH)
Charlie Wilson (D-OH)
Dan Boren (D-OK)
Tom Cole (R-OK)
Mary Fallin (R-OK)
John Sullivan (R-OK)
Darlene Hooley (D-OR)
Greg Walden (R-OR)
David Wu (D-OR)
Robert Brady (D-PA)
Charles Dent (R-PA)
Mike Doyle (D-PA)
Chaka Fattah (D-PA)
Jim Gerlach (R-PA)
Paul Kanjorski (D-PA)
Patrick Murphy (D-PA)
John Murtha (D-PA)
John Peterson (R-PA)
Allyson Schwartz (D-PA)
Joe Sestak (D-PA)
Bill Shuster (R-PA)
Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
James Langevin (D-RI)
J. Gresham Barrett (R-SC)
Henry Brown (R-SC)
James Clyburn (D-SC)
Bob Inglis (R-SC)
John Spratt (D-SC)
Joe Wilson (R-SC)
Stephen Cohen (D-TN)
Jim Cooper (D-TN)
Bart Gordon (D-TN)
John Tanner (D-TN)
Zach Wamp (R-TN)
Kevin Brady (R-TX)
FYI, Barcley’s and State Street to manage Fannie May and Freedie Mac mortgage back securities.
Bernanke spooked the Democratic Leadership.
They apparently bought the idea that the financial markets were freezing up, and decided that while NOBODY cares about preserving rich banker’s summer homes in the Hamptons, it was NOT worthwhile to have 3-6 million Americans losing their jobs before they can get back to work in January with a Democratic president.
I can’t speak to the issue about whether the credit markets are ACTUALLY freezing up or not, but I personally know two business owners who can’t get loans now at ANY price… loans that were routine last year under identical circumstances. They will let people go soon unless they can get credit to buy inventory and meet payroll. So… in my eyes… the credit freeze is REAL.
Sorry this is so late. The article I saw didn’t say, but I also assumed the poor lady fell victim to predatory home equity loan. They’re STILL pushing those awful things in our area. I heard an aggressive ad just this week, and here I thought they’d been outlawed.
The article also had an extensive quote from one of her close neighbors. He sounded just heart-broken. With a house in probably a pretty settled city neighborhood, and only worth 30,000, it’s not hard to imagine her going broke just trying to heat the thing and not being able to feed herself well either. No family in the area; no outside help. The neighbor said, she “did pretty good” getting around and maintaining her independence.
These whiz-bang financial predators don’t appear to have any conscience at all.
I hope you’re doing well. I’m just a young whippersnapper at 67, heh. yea, right.
There was a program on PBS about how the rigging of the Diebold voting machines was/is accomplished. Takes less than one minute to slip the small chip in the back door.
Does anyone else recall the conversation between McCain and Bush on the day McCain went to W/H? McCain said something like, I just hope I can win in November. Bush said, “Don’t worry about it, we’ve got it locked in.”
In 2000 the Republicans pulled lots of different kinds of dirty deals to put Bush in the W/H. Their devious minds are always working; look for new ways to steal the election this time. As fired up as the voters are that could cause real riots. Maybe that’s what we need.
master of the understatement.
sounds like us.
I was born in February, 1934 when the Depression was at its deepest. Mostly as a child I remember being hungry. I suggest that all read again the book, Grapes of Wrath. (Also the movie starring Henry Fonda as Tom Joad). The conditions described there are no exaggeration.
My own children, now in early 50’s, have never known hunger or need; nor have their children. Most have learned some of my toughness, but whether they could survive if real want had to be faced, I don’t know.
I hope that the Bush Dynasty, Cheney, all the PNACers, Henry Paulson and all their enablers burn in the hottest of Hot Hells!
Cool, I’ll go check mine.
Ian, do you see at any time in the future the prosecution of Henry Paulson for his part in bringing on the death of Wall Street?
Ref: NY Times (online), article: Agency’s ‘04 Rule Let Banks Pile up Debt, and Risk 10/03/2008 by Stephen Labaton. (link is obscenely long)
Now HE’s the man with the bag of $700 Billion to spend as his “judgment” determines. I bet that Goldman-Sach’s toxic assets get bought early on.
When watching him testify in Senate hearings I became fascinated with his continuous hand movements - shaping, re-shaping, piling up, smoothing out, raising up, etc. Now I know exactly what that invisible matter was that he was sculpting!
My Dad (born in 1923) passed the story that one way he and his Mom dealt with the shortage of food: go to bed early, get up late, and you only had to do without 2 meals. Evidently the only staple was turnips . . . and they were prepared raw, mashed, steamed, fried, boiled. Consequently, turnips were never prepared as I was growing up. Even when Alzheimers impaired Daddy’s mind, neither Mom nor eventually healthcare professionals could ever sneak a turnip onto his plate that he didn’t refuse to eat.
Thank you, Adie. Years ago I put those people without conscience into a category labeled “mutants”. Any who get so pigeon-holed I will have nothing to do with.
Yes, thanks, I am well - tough old turkey!
May The Force be with you and all here, for always.
HOW TO SAVE THE ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does $700 Billion dollars worth of toxic assets sound absurd to you?
Look no further.
What the Federal Reserve is imposing IS NOT the only way to solve this crisis. Instead of shutting Main Street out of the equation, this proposed plan lifts the heavy weight of mortgages off of homeowner’s backs temporarily while covering all mortgages (Freddie, Fannie, Bear Stearns, Lehman, WAMU, etc.).
It’s a plan where the Government and the Homeowner work together to funnel revenue back into the economy.
1. Revise mortgage loans at 75% of the original value, with a new 30 yr, 6.5% fixed interest rate.(Current average monthly payment: $1,389)
2.The Government pays the difference of new mortgage and old for 7 years (NEW average monthly payment for YOU: $846)
3. Original debt held by Government as a second note. Then a 40 year note with payments starts after the seven years. You can pay this debt off at anytime, but can not refinance without paying down.
It’s simple.
It gives the economy 7 years to recover. It relieves the heavy mortgage debt on YOU. It cost CONSIDERABLY less on YOU and the Government than this $700 Bailout plan. Think about it. Less cents equals MORE SENSE!!!!
I think if he ever gets call to account it will be for his decisions on who to live and die. I’m hearing people on Wall Street are alternately livid and scared spitless by the way he’s deciding which companies survive, which die and which get to buy up their competitors on the cheap. Particularly vicious rumors swirl that Lehman Brothers being allowed to die (which, in the way they did it, turned out to be a mistake) was payback for past grudges with the CEO, for example.
No proof, of course, but if there is any it may come out in time.
I’m not a fan overall.
Pretty sad. What have the idiots of Wall Street EVER doen for Main Street America? NOTHING! yet now we have to bail them out of a hole they dug themselves. Pretty pathetic isnt it!
JIff
Thank you, Ian.
I must now try to follow the money. What are Carlyle Group’s investments? What are current financial endeavors of Jeb, Marvin, and Neil Bush?
I can’t shake the feeling that the citizenry has been hustled in history’s biggest scam, and that the hustlers are those elected and appointed to guard the securities of America.
Thank you for all your articles, one of the few sources of truth on this subject.