I'm not going to go through this in detail, but just quickly hit the highlights then discuss what this will mean for ordinary people and the economy.
Fundamentally it's the Treasury Secretary to spend pretty much as he chooses, with meaningless oversight, up to 700 billion or the debt limit. In theory it's "whichever is less" in practice it's going to be "whichever is more". Add to this the end of mark to the end of mark to market, and the move to mark to "whatever the bank says its worth" and banks are going to be allowed to stay alive no matter whether they're solvent or not as long as their cash flow doesn't go so far negative it can't be papered over the world's favorite wallpaper, the US buck. Zombie banks plus all the money flooding into trying to stop deleveraging from wiping out said financial institutions means this is a Japanification plan.
Japan had its own bubble back in the 80's. When it popped the Japanese decide that they would not force banks to write down their losses. Instead they left them on the books. Those of you who are old enough will remember when Japan was the economy of the future, who built the best stuff and were destroying everyone else. After the bubble popped that all ended. The world's most vibrant economy went into a long economic slump from which it never recovered. This wasn't a classic depression—there wasn't a huge immediate contraction. Things just generally got lousy - unemployment rose somewhat, jobs stagnated, no one had a lot of money. The good times never, ever, came back ever again. It was like being caught in a low grade recession, all the time.
That's what this bill will do in the most likely scenario. The US will go into recession, every once in a while it will seem to pop out, then it will drop again. Because the US has population growth, and Japan doesn't, the actual numbers will look better than Japan's, but the feeling of "there are no jobs anywhere" and "this economy sucks" will be pervasive. This will translate into a grinding down of Americans standards of living.
The reason this happens is that all the money that could be used to increase output and productivity or to decrease input problems (by, say, reducing the amount of oil and other commodities used) will be all be being used to prop up the current financial structure. 750 billion dollars, and this is key, is not going to be enough. Folks on Wall Street are already saying so. More money is going to keep flying into the structure to keep it from deleveraging in an uncontrolled fashion, and thus wiping out lots of rich people. I figure they'll be back for more money in 6 months, 9 max. 3 months wouldn't surprise me, since Paulson has a lot of incentive to use up his full allowance while he's still Secretary. After he does so the problem will still exist and the next Treasury Secretary will be back looking for more.
Now, if that money hits the real economy in a significant way, it will lead to inflation, and in my earlier writing that's what I figured would happen. But on consideration, I think the downturn in the economy combined with the sheer sucking power of the leveraged financial structure which has to be kept from collapsing means that very little of that money is, in fact, going to get to the real economy and what does won't be sufficient to overcome demand contraction. Simply put, the financial masters of the universe owe more money than exists in the entire universe. So their need is going to be pretty close to endless. 10 years minimum, probably 20. Maybe 30. Who knows... but certainly not a one time injection. If 700 billion was their total losses, they wouldn't actually need a bail out.
Note that Japanification was always the plan of the "neconomy", or Busheconomy if you prefer. It was always the endgame? Why? Because Japanification makes the winners of the final game permanent. All extra money in the system will be pumped to the people who made the bad decisions that crashed the prior economy, they will stay in power and because there isn't a dynamic economy left, no one is likely to rise to replace them.
Note also that this money is entirely fictional. We are now into a real "paper" money system. For all that they aren't actually printing it, this is the modern equivalent of just saying "we need more money? Well, we are the government. Run the presses hot."
For ordinary people this means a long gray suck. The US is in worse condition to handle this than the Japanese were. It has a trade deficit and its government is hemorraging red ink. Foreigners will start lending again, but that's because they know they're going to get a lot of the bailout cash, which means their real rate of return on the treasuries is going to be a lot more than nominal (no no, ordinary citizens like you do not get this money. You will, however, pay and pay and pay for it.) Standards of living, which have been essentially stagnant with a slight decrease in the last few years, will start a steep decline. Nominal housing values may or may not fully crash, but if they don't, you'll find it very hard to find anyone to sell your house to—the housing club will become one for people who are already in it. Those who aren't won't be able to afford the overinflated prices, because only people who can sell at high prices will be able to buy at high prices.
Because the US does not run a balance of payments surplus this is a game that can't go on forever, as it has in Japan. The US still needs outside money and that money will get more and more expensive and will eventually be turned off entirely. How long? Two to four years is my guess. At that point the US will be forced to go to the IMF (which, arguably, it should be doing right now, when it can use special drawing rights with no catch except a prestige loss.) At first the IMF will lend with no conditions. Then it will lend with conditions. You will not like those conditions. At all. Since Obama will be in office and will be associated with this mess (fairly enough, since he whipped for the bill) the right will run populist right wing and odds are very good that they will win. 2013 will likely see a populist right wing government in the US.
There are some ways this could break down. Running the printing presses hot could lead to runaway inflation (I am amazed that all Chicago school economists are not up in arms over this plan, actually. They apparently don't believe what they teach.) The outside world could decide to really cut the US off, causing a devastating currency drop on the order of 40% or so. The deleveraging may be so vicious that even throwing a few trillion dollars at it and letting banks pretend that it's really worth whatever they say it is, doesn't work, in which case, probably a full fledged depression, since the money to fix things right will have just been flushed down the toilet.
And there are some ways this could be fixed. A lot of economists, like Stiglitz, are betting that Obama will eventually do a real bailout bill. We'll see. He made no real push to fix this bill at all that I am aware of and his various economic policies have long indicated to me that he is essentially a gentler kinder Reaganite in economic terms, so I'm not so sure. Still, there are solutions, and I'll talk about some of them in future, as I have in the past. The question is whether there will be any political will to do them. When you can pass a 700 billion bailout for the rich, but putting in real changes in bankruptcy laws to allow folks to keep their houses is unthinkable, it's clear that the elite consensus is still that the little people are always to be made to pay to clean up their betters mistakes. Until that attitude changes, very little useful is likely to get through Congress.
Everyone will be very interested in this again soon enough. In the meantime I wish you all, my readers, the best of luck and good health. I will repeat my standard advice that the most important thing in an economic downturn, by far, is not so much which securities your money is in, but how good your relationship is with your family, friends, neighbors, and most especially, your spouse.
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
country first, ian
let those in government eat chinese cake. i hear a little melamine is good for ya. *wink*
the lack of real economic stability is scaring the crap out of me. rich people pulling up the drawbridge.
Has anyone else noticed how shifty-eyed and uncomfortable mcsame gets when anyone mentions government issue health care?
We could just make ‘em all food tasters for McShame?
I’d love to see that tattooed on a few Congressional foreheads.
Our local food banks have been running on borderline-empty all this year and more.
Digg please
Paulson and chimpy look quite giddy.
It’s no surprise that Campbell Soup’s stock is the only one doing well this week.
EPU’ed
I wanted to pass this on but couldn’t find the time or the thread to put it in. But with the release of today’s job numbers, creation of jobs in 7 3/4 years of Bush fell below 5 million to 4,849,000. Clinton created 22,760,000 in his 8 years. So Bush’s record of job creation is 21.3% that of Clinton.
Clinton was actually able to increase manufacturing jobs modestly by 237,000. Bush OTOH has managed to lose 3,734,000 of these higher paying jobs and they now comprise only 9.74% of the work force down from 12.92% in January 2001.
Whenever Palin says that she and McCain want to create jobs, the numbers speak for themselves. Republicans are an unremitting, relentless disaster when it comes to creating jobs.
In Akron OH yesterday, a 90 year old woman shot herself because the authorities were coming to serve forclosure papers on her $30,000 house. She survived so far, and is in the hospital with multiple wounds.
Those serving the forclosure notice said they had no idea she was 90.
Cognitive disconnect, anyone? Humanity??!?
Tip of the iceberg…
There you go again, Ian, being all optimistic and such./s
Your analysis is right on the money (and everything else as well)!
Yep, ‘they’ve’ put themselves in power (and total control) for all perpetuity or the end of the world, whichever comes first.
‘They’ had a lot of help from the Political Class, who have, clearly signalled where their true allegience lies (lies, lies, and damned lies).
Let us remain resolutely hopeful.
Or ….
“No war but class war, now.”
Dow slips into negative they sure seem happy
are you referring to when the des moines register put him on the spot about his free healthcare? I’d like to point out that even when he wasn’t living in one of his eight mansions and had only a mudhut or whatever, he was STILL COVERED.
These are some pretty telling statistics
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/419
Why is the Depression repeatedly called the Great Depression? To hear my grampa tell it it wasn’t so great. My dad’s most vivid memory (he was 9 in 1933) was eating corn flakes with water instead of milk. I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that small businesses are gonna be in deep doo doo after Xmas, if not before.
“it’s all about job creation.”
thanks hugh. One of things this thinking mammal enjoyed about the debate is that biden drew back the curtain on many of mccain’s claims. imho.
Sorry no winners owning stock in companies that barely go up in response to inflation and population means that you are really not increasing your money.
Also stocks that pay dividends get favored in such am environment along with what ever hot stock the Insiders and Press anoint with Crisco oil like John Ashcroft does before they ram it up the
SheepStockbrokers.Smart money will move to foreign markets looking for growth. Long term liquidity will be worse.
Go ahead. Mention that in public. You’ll elicit his standard speech about being a POW “under some other government’s healthcare,” after which he grins THAT weird, space-cadet grin while looking as if he’d strangle a starving child without a second thought.
very interesting analysis from bernhard (with charts!). haven’t had time to digest it yet but thought it would be of interest here.
1,783 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Ian Welsh and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
In my opinion, there is nuthin’ that could have been done differently legislatively that anyone could do to ameliorate this “crisis” as long as the fascists control the White House…if that is true, then the gamble that Obama led us into is simply that the Treasury and the Fed will not be able ta obligate all $700 billion before the new administration and Congress are sworn in.
What stands in the way of a new administration and new Congress from rewriting this last larcenous piece of garbage and instituting the changes to the tax and regulatory structures that need changin’ in January? Isn’t what happened here the last scorched earth attack on the treasury by the Freidmanbots, usin’ politics and the nearness of the election to cover their tails? Is this $700 billion increase in debt the straw that broke the economy, or can it be shuffled back into the market for the hedge funds and speculators ta take the hit?
It seems ta this old scandinavian that Obama had ta end this “crisis” distraction in order ta get to the election without givin’ the fascists a “game changin’” issue. This has been politics and extortion and why can’t it be undone fairly quickly in January?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS JEST A BATTLE, THE STRUGGLE CONTINUES!!
Heh:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....287/619084
“It took ten years to raise the minimum rage a buck forty.
And now we’re being stampeded into a disastrous bailout deal by the same traitorous motherfuckers who have rammed down our throats the:
USA Patriot Act
Military Commissions Act
Domestic Spying
Retroactive immunity for violators of FISA
The abomination of the Iraq war
The torture of helpless prisoners
Suspension of Habeas Corpus
Dismantling of Posse Comitatus
Free Speech Zones
The Katrina nightmare
Deregulation of Everything
Mercenary Armies in America
All while ignoring everything that really matters:………”
The entire diary…very satisfying. Burp.
Dow slips into negative
One of the front pagers said the other day, “Debt is money.” It’s easy to live on credit when you don’t have to pay any of it back.
Thank you!
That is my hope I hope Obama is just saying what he thinks he has to until he gets to the White House. Would Obama have to scrap the current bailout deal though to do a real bailout what ever that may be?
Or will Paulson and Helicopter Ben have SPENT EVERY SINGLE DIME JUST TO MAKE SURE OBAMA DOES NOT GET IT!
Our Dear Leader assures us that it will take some time before we can see the positive effects of this bailout to take place. enough time for him and paulsen to skip town. they’re smiling their big alligator smiles today, that’s for sure.
My take: Any increase in jobs under the Rethugs has been in the hospitality and service sectors. Any job that actually produces a commodity has been outsourced.
Creeping up again, but it’s yo-yoing.
the political will is up to us to provide.
(my bold)
Extortion. that’s it in a soundbite, norske.
A war suggests that there are casualties on both sides. I haven’t seen any casualties of the plutocrats and aristocrats. Only the middle class and workers. This isn’t class warfare, it is class massacre and we know who is suffering.
And she be bankrupted by medical bills…
i don’t understand why you think that. obama’s economic advisors, his previous votes all seem consistent with the view that this is what he really wanted. what am i missing?
so. i guess paulson can skip that zillionth botox injection after all…
anyone else out here freaked out by his totally smooth countenance?
he talks, i think, but nothing moves.
i keep looking for the tell-tale bump under his jacket.
I replace the comma with a period and capitalize the n. Changes the emphasis.
No war but class war. Now.
The next 6 months are going to be vellllllly intellesting.
final throes?
seizures?
If they don’t listen to us now in the current heated crisis moment, why would they listen to us later? I guess Norske has the answer to my question: extortion.
What we’ve done is simply wealth transfer from the many to the few. Bailing out Wall Street is only the final act of this process. And we engaged in this quest with such force and thoroughness that there isn’t enough money left for a functionally healthy economy.
This ultimately can’t work to the advantage of the few, unless they recognize that resources are finite and that endless growth isn’t possible - in which case they may accept having all of a finite satchel of cash.
Trickle down never worked, the world has always been trickle up. And when the few suck up all the assets, the many can no longer create that trickle. Consider a King who expropriates everything that the eye can see. What’s left? Nada.
Meanwhile, even our shared assets, roads, airports, seaports, and eventually land, is being sold off to the highest bidder - so that the polity has nothing but the clothes on its collective backs.
What is the answer? Having created this by the world’s largest wealth transfer (in other words welfare) program, we need to correct this situation by the same means. Only by moving money back from the few to the polity, and the many of whom it is made, will we recover a healthy economy and healthy environment. This can be the modern fall of the Roman empire, or we can learn how to fight back and restore a working economy.
I appreciate Biden’s theme of fairness last night.
Palin got up there like a true soulseller to tell people to vote against their interests because she’s one of them. And she is. that’s what so sad. McCain is a blueblood posing as a war hero.
link from a previous thread (don’t remember who, sorry):
I know. Borrowed $$ up at least 10,000 more than the house was appraised.
Now what thoughtful soul will own up to having done that to her? Those serving the papers said they had no clue. SOMEone did!?!
If you just got a %700 Billion windfall, you’d prolly be a little dizzy as well … *g*
He’s workin’ on my taking the name Sardonicus back from Bill “The Grin” Kristol and applyin’ it to McSFB. There’s something about people who grin like they’ve just killed some defenseless creature and shot their wad in their pants. Creeps me out.
or maybe they disagree with us? isn’t that possible?
OT - Just came in from teaching and saw the response of Palin to the Michigan abandonment. She was arguing against it, saying several times, “Todd and I….” “Todd and I” “Todd and I” could go back to Michigan and turn it around. Take that, old wrinkly white dude.
scares me.
Having a nephew as a Marine, I can tell you that unfortunately he’s right.
Your Armed Forces are severely depleted and it will take a few years to get them back up to full force.
Whoops! Just noticed an extra $70,000 in my retirement account that wasn’t there last night. They’ve been having some accounting problems, but how soon do I need to call this to their attention? Anybody else noticing some cash stashing in unusual places?
As always, your analysis is thoughtful, most reasonable, and most importantly, Norske, hopeful, and thereby especially helpful for the rest of us.
How much of the loot do you suppose will be gone by a certain date in January of next year?
Clearly, Paulson and ‘Helicopter Ben’ intend to do their utmost to insure that none remains.
If Obama is deliberately taking such a risk, then perhaps he will have the courage to take the still greater risks of actually rebuilding ‘trust’ in the legimate (and necessary) role of government, as well as the infrastructure nation and the well-being of its peoples, and not just simply pander to those most comfortably ensconsed at the top.
Money pundits are all scratching their heads about why the market has not reacted positively to the bill passage….
Right retail get 2/3 of business from hoildays sale…which by the way the buy on credit…then in January have to settle debt. Many will close. Main Street will not look good.
That there was no provisions to help families stay in their homes is just criminal, Shame onf congress, Bushco and Wall Street. They are the terrorists.
ya know, you’re right.
Sarah was as incoherent as most of today’s Rap Artists, so maybe she would appeal to their fans …
You want a body count Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual the CEOs with golden parachutes is not getting what they had before the economy tanked in stock options that and most of them will all be trying to apply for jobs in a field where the survivors are downsizing.
Well off is a relative thing expenses almost always rise with income I can’t think of a single market making money right now.
What is there to be afraid of?
there are lots of things that are severely depleted. i don’t think our security depends on spending as much as the rest of the world combined on weapons, war and the MIC.
would like to see all the funding necessary to care for the vets though.
… leading to the inevitable realization that … *gasp* … they need annuder bailout right quick …
I agree. Obama had no choice. The hope is, as Reverend Wright contends, Obama is more activist than he lets on. Not only can we revise the tax code to tax the rich and put that money into invention and infrastructure, we may also be forced to rewrite the national debt, kind of a countrywide Chapter 11. Our creditors may go for it. Hyper inflation is in no one’s interest.
I wonder what they’ll be celebrating with tonight…cocktails and weanies, followed by champagne and filet mignon, etc…while the country starts hoarding rice and beans and cake…
I’m suggesting that the ‘upper’ classes have been waging said ‘war’ for nigh on sixty years, and that it is time for us to start fighting (nonviolently) that war as if it actually matters. Because it does.
What do you think?
Absolutely, the vets from all Wars have to be given first rate care.
Thanks for the clarification, SD.
“No war but class war. Now!”
(Couldn’t resist the immediacy of the ‘point’)
;~D
Maybe they decided to destroy the middle class so that all the “workers” are forced to work for “their” corporations at slave labor rates in order to survive? Then…they wouldn’t have to bother their beautiful minds with shipping business offshore.
Me too.
Here I come with my nitwit bobblehead routine again, so go ahead and slap me down folks. I’ll just pop up again, senseless but grasping and annoyingly persistent.
I. TRUST. THAT. OBAMA. AND. BIDEN. WILL. TRY. TO. SET. THINGS RIGHT.
to the extent that they are able.
I believe the Clintons will help them. And others.
By nature, I am not a naive person. I normally tend more toward suspicious, if anything.
You cannot prove me wrong YET. Can you?! Admit it. Stick your neck out.
Double dare ya!
Her arrogance is utterly stunning. This woman appears to think that she could leap tall buildings without working up a sweat. I don’t understand where all this comes from - she’s as dumb as a table.
I agree with you.
Agreed! I think it’s incumbent that it be non-violent. The first step will be to prepare for massive demonstrations on Nov. 5th because I have little doubt that the Republicans will attempt to steal this election. Through voter suppression and computer sabotage there is the distinct possibility that they will steal another one. If the exit polls don’t match the final tally the media and the ruling elites will explain it away as the “Bradley Effect.” It’s important to have a strategy to be on the streets in a non-violent fashion to say NO to the media and the ruling elites.
Dammit Twain, why’d ya have to go and insult Tables … *g*
not “normal”, is it?! i’m one of those who thinks he’s “not all there,” that it’s critically important that somehow his medical records are seized and made public ASAP.
early voting is starting as we speak…
I would ask all of you to do one better … make sure your friends and relatives are properly registered, that they know where they have to go to vote and get them to vote early …
Best thing we can do to help the small business owner is to buy nothing in corporate chains and pay cash. Had some big/mid-sized purchases sked for the holidays? Scale it down, put a little dough away and buy smaller, more meaningful gifts from local businesspeople and crafts folks. Remember, when you use a credit card the card company gets about 3% of the purchase total right off the top from the retailer. If you just have to buy online use a debit card. When you go to the store take a neighbor or two with you. Saves gas and you get to know your neighbors better.
Just a small part of class warfare.
ya’ll some gloomy motherfuckers, take a walk or sumthin
*giggle*
They’ve been waging it since man decided that he could own part of Mother Earth.
So, you are saying that the ‘progressive’ community will have to put its bodies where its mouth is?
Couldn’t agree more, Bluetoe, couldn’t agree more.
But it would well behoove us to have our ‘collective’ thoughts far more clear and coherent, than heretofor.
As Southern Dragon says the next six months are critical (and will very likely determine our future AND our collective fate).
Make no mistake. Voters got out in record numbers in Ohio in 2004 and through the wizardry of a computer geek Kerry’s votes mysteriously flipped for Bush. This is going to happen on a massive scale on Nov. 4th. Kerry won in 2004, he just didn’t have the courage to do the right thing and fight the theft. Massive demonstrations on the streets to protest treasonous larceny on Nov. 5th will tell Obama that the people have his back.
me too.
would have some confidence if he had explained his change of heart. there’s a reason we called him the senator from MBNA and he has yet to do anything to counter that.
Works for me. The ruling class has thrown down the gauntlet.
Link please?
Gloomy? I ain’t gloomy. This is opportunity.
Loosehead got’s the word in the new post.
Re defense spending, replenishing hardware destroyed, damaged, or worn out in war IIRC would cost around $50 billion. I tried to find a link. The best I came up with was this from 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01347.html
which talks about spending $17 to $19 billion for several years to re-equip. It is hard to say how much wear and tear on equipment will decline as troops are shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan but there should be some savings.
But getting rid of Bush’s defensive missile shield, which doesn’t work would save $9 billion a year.
I agree. There needs to be a nationwide coordinating committee to organize such an effort. These demonstrations have to include men, women, young, old, black, white and brown, students and teachers, retirees and unemployed, even the rich if they have a conscious, a true cross section of the real America. If we aren’t organized this time it will be another fait accompli.
Yes, about the time agriculture was invented (by women), some guy decided that since ‘wealth’ could now be grown and stored, that he and a few fellows ought to take control.
Then he noticed a tribe over in the next valley who had more. So the only solution was to go to war because, obviously, these other people represented a ‘threat’, and, equally obviously, if the ‘us’ folks don’t do in the ‘them’ folks, the ‘them’ folks would do in the ‘us’ folks.
Same old, same old..
Flipping numbers in a computer can be done by a 1st semester C programming student. Simple “if” or “switch” statement (depending upon how many candidates ya wanna steal votes from) in the counting algorithm.
Cause for hope?
He wasn’t working with Obama before… That could be a biggy. It had better be!
thanks. bringing our troops home would save even more.
and remember to check www.canivote.org if you have already registered. check and doublecheck and don’t take no shit at the polls!
crisis and opportuniy
It will only save us from borrowing the money to pay for the occupation but they’re gonna blow that deal by re-invading Afghanistan.
Palin looked a little surprised that her lines weren’t working on Biden. Like when she smugly asked why he was trying to redistribute wealth.
Bam! Fairness, baby! Bam! Wealthy got wealthier on middle class backs! Bam!
Palin’s response. Oh. that talking point didn’t work.
while plucking the stuffing from our mattress
Yeppur.
They’d steal yer drawers if it suited ‘em.
don’t forget pakistan. :(
“Best thing we can do to help the small business owner is to buy nothing in corporate chains and pay cash.”
You have nailed it. They put us in this situations, Scaling doen the middle class. We that are excluded have to use a different business plan for survival. We have to spend more effort on staying healthy. healthy food, healthier lifestyles and save even with less icome.
Grwo your own food as much as posibble. No debt period. Cut back. Drive less walk and bicycle and carpool.
Yes support your small merchant snub the corprorate box store even it cist a little more. Put the financial clamps on big corp as theyu have on us.
It is a class war. And the conglomerates run “K’ street and have bought/coopted our elected officials. That is reality we saw it today.
Find as many neighbors and get a common cause like nieghborhood watch, Food bank and Nieghborhood swaps. Collaborate and coalition if you want to survive. Government has failed us despite taxing us for failed serices.
Back to the salt mine.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Changing to a healthy, frugal lifestyle never killed anybody.
Yep, oddly enough, the best we’ve had in quite a while.
If reason hasn’t ‘reached’ people’s consciousness, then reality just might.
Besides, what have we all spent our lives prepareing for if not this?
We are fotunate souls to be called to ‘action’ in such a time as this.
Even if it doesn’t seem that way, we stand on the edge of possibility unlike ANY in my sixty-odd years. Of that I am certain.
The question is this: Will we rise to the occassion and the desperate needs of this opportunity?
Raven all due respect we need to prepare for what is coming to some and has been with a lot of us. We need to organise and plab. We need each other. The political effort did not get the job done. Obama just gave up his treasury that could have provided the safety net during this japonification. People who are not prepared will drag others down.