Most real thing I've seen in politics in a long, long time.
When Biden was speaking about the folks he grew up with in Scranton and Wilmington -- their fear about how to pay for the heat in the winter, and groceries, and medical bills? You could feel the empathy pouring out of the television.
He wants to help those folks. They are his neighbors, whether they live next door or across the continent.
Sarah Palin has clearly been on camera enough to hit her marks, and deliver her rote, frenzied lines for that closing speech or to launch into yet another hyperactive filibuster. I give her credit for having a great camera presence, but so much of it felt scripted, manic and manufactured -- down to the newly caramelized color of her highlights that they toned down with a color rinse from the usual brassier version for the stage lighting tonight.
Especially the moment where she was griping about corporations taking advantage of folks, while she's spent the last five weeks chumming around with corporate lobbyist cronies of John McCain's. (What ya do, not what ya say, you betcha! *wink*)
Frankly, I have had enough of a manufactured false front in the last eight years, haven't you? I don't want to have a beer with my leaders. I want them to do their jobs, and care enough to do them well.
Joe Biden? He was real. He spoke from real experience, from his heart and his gut. He cared about the subjects, whether it was protecting women from violence or Afghanistan or home heating bills for the poor. And I loved him for it tonight.
Looks like CBS' undecideds poll agrees: Biden -- 46%, Palin 21%. Nate has more.
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zed
Christy !
Biden was smokin’ tonight !
… missed it by that much …
ya know
i heart Joe
sorry charlie…”g”
JOE!!!!
Let’s hear it for Joe!
Thanks Christy.
digg
Evening, gang. Carl Bernstein is talking about Palin being a heartbeat away from the presidency scaring the bejeebers out of undecideds.
I don’t want to have a beer with my leaders. I want them to do their jobs, and care enough to do them well.
I just want the smartest persons at the helm.
Guess who I’m voting for?
I thought the “white flag of surrender” line was the worst one Palin regurgitated - a difficult choice, there were so many candidates.
That was exhausting. Biden got emotional discussing the death of his wife and daughter…
Yee haa, McSame’s camp is conceding Michigan to Obama and pulling out!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...../mccain_41
this was the strangest debate I have ever (partly) seen. She wouldn’t answer questions and he just out classed her on every level. wtf was up with the winking
Who? *g*
And there’s such a *huge* percentage of Americans still in favor of the war.
Guess she’s got them.
And she can have them.
Was it just me or did Palin sound an awful lot like the lady sheriff in Fargo?
I thought Biden was really good. Deeply knowledgable, caring, and committed…but I can’t help but wish, when she said she wanted to Constitutionally expand the power of the OVP, he had turned to her and said, “Governor, you’re no Dick Cheney.” or something of the sort. Just once.
Maybe this was that flash of insight that actually fueled his Presidential bid? Had I seen more of what I saw tonight, I might’ve given him at least a look-over in the primary.
You know what was so bad about that line? She didn’t really believe it — her heart wasn’t in the saying of it. You could visibly see her steeling herself before letting that line fly — which was a dead giveaway that someone else coached her on it, because she had to get herself into character to say it. And the tone of it came out flat as a result.
sounds like ko may discuss this… or i am mis-reading the teaser to what i want him to cover
Omigawsh! She’s fleein’ th’ interview!
I said this earlier. In the moment Biden choked up talking about his family he showed his humanity, not his ideology.
Definitely a demographic we can afford to lose. *g*
LOVED Joe.
Agree - she was just spouting rehearsed neocon memes.
OT There is an important article at the NYT about one smoking gun in the deregulation of Wall Street that led to the current meltdown.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10.....ref=slogin
In the past Joe has often left me feeling cool, or even cold. Tonight I don’t feel cool or cold about Joe. Tonight I believe in Joe. And I particularly believe in Joe as compared with Sarah.
all subliminal … winking + Repub buzzwords + hypnotise you with verbal gaarbage … worked on Pat
BacchanalBuchanan …KO talking about THAT moment right now…
Thanks Christy. I was touched by that as well.
her christy. up late. good to see ya.
I recommend reading this. she mentioned it tonight and you’ll be heariong alot about this and how McCain was really sounding the alarm and no one listened and that’s why we’re in this mess. all bullshit. i wosh jo would have called her on it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/20/21195/8886
I thought she sounded exactly that way during her attempt to steal Reagan’s “Now, there you go again, Joe” line. Very flat and unconvincing.
Who?
Stephen Hawking and Salma Hayek.
(Hawking is smart enough for both of ‘em - and I can always stand watching more Salma Hayek)
that’ll learn ya to challenge my rhetorical questions… *g*
In the last thread, some folks were suggesting that Palin was wearing a wireless receiver, ala Bush in 2004. I didn’t see the debate on TV here on Okinawa, but could only listen via NPR. Did anyone here perceive that Palin was being fed talking points via a transmitter?
Even Pat had to really want it to be impressed.
Hey petro!
Exactly right. You could feel his heart there, couldn’t you? The Peanut was hospitalized once when she was tiny, and I can still see her hooked up to all those tubes and in the oxygen tent, desperately trying to breathe through her blue-tinged little lips…and that terror in the pit of my gut and my heart? It still hasn’t gone away. Any parent who has ever tried to survive something like that knows that feeling — and could feel how genuine it was in him.
newt !
yeah he did. this whole process makes me weary though. So many folks are hurting and to have to go through this circus adds insult to injury
Buchanon just has the hots for her. His leg is probably tingly. And…ewwww…that grossed me out just typing it.
I really feel good about this campaign after watching and listening to Biden. This is a great team.
Wobbs, my son said the same thing about the winking.
he’s a sexist pig. but yeah, I get what you’re saying
…and a great way to reconnect to the feeling during the convention, a lot of it lost the following Friday morning.
Senator Biden won that debate without even breaking a sweat, and not ever taking the baits Palin threw at him. He proved he can handle himself as a man and as an elected official by rising above the fray. JMO.
She sounded like she was completely aware how audaciously presumptuous she was being, and like even knowing that, she was gonna go ahead and do it anyway. There’s your SP in a nutshell.
ahhh brain bleach
dugg
Prediction: Her performance isn’t going to age well. And since she’s the queen of YouTube already, that’s going to be a problem for her. The non-answers are going to get stale fast. And we’re going to get to see her blow commander what’s-his-name’s name over and over and over. That’ll be a vast improvement over her Katie Couric videos, but it’s still not Presidential material.
Joe Biden did better than I expected him to, but what the hell did his plastic surgeon do to his eyes?
bniden was real and I think really, genuinely pissed when she tried to claim as her own knowing what it’s like to sit around the kitchen table and have problems and how she’s in touch with real folks like hockey moms and joe six packs. “You think I rode the Metroliner every day and night for my freaking health??!!! Don’t tell me what it’s like, bitch.”
My brother with the sixty inch TV said she had an earpiece in her right ear. I couldn’t tell, but it would be worth looking for.
No.
Made me cry.
and i think that she belives reagan wrote the ‘city on a hill” line.
Excellent point by Rachel … SP was stoic, even when Biden choked up …
Letterman: Does she really read every newspaper…The Newark Paper?
I wonder if McSame knows how power hungry Palin is? Watch out McSame, you have a monster on your hands that want your job now.
Thank you, Hugh. Looks like a good one. I’ll read over coffee in the a.m.–I emailed it to myself.
pushing red brain bleach button (i sure like the new fangled dispenser - no more dragging out the 55 gal jugs)
Actually, Joe did call her on this point about McCain. Joe did not let anything slide in this debate that mattered.
Buchanan thinks that talking facts, by Biden, is “a crashing bore”.
“Sarah is such a more interesting persona”. (paraphrased)
Hey Pat - I’ve seen eight years of “interesting” sons-a-bitches in the White House.
Facts might be a nice change.
Cue the winking, folksy-hamming YouTube in 5…4…3…
She was dismissive…and revolting.
word,he could be prez,chancellor,supreme court judge…indian cheif…he is an informed sensible man
yup…daring…..her and McSlime are 2 peas in a pod
There’s a diary up earlier today about this — it doesn’t seem likely, no matter how many suggestions of an earpiece people kept thinking they saw.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....151314/450
I think tonight finished the McC campaign. Unless Obama puts his thumbs in his ears and wiggles his fingers at McC at the next debate. Don’t see that happening
Yeah. I can relate to that too and I thought it was a great moment. Really real and not something he made sure to squeeze in like the pow stuff. i think he was really offended by her Miss Wasilly “I know what it’s like to be a parent” bullshit at that point.
she’s a very cold hearted person - how could she not respond to his statement. she blew by it - ignored it. that’s forking cold
that’ll make it on youtube.
i looked, but mostly saw only her left ear
Absolutely true.
I’ve been with many parents who were going through those terrifying moments … greatest thing about Canada is, they didn’t also have to worry about paying for first class HealthCare …
thank you. I’ll do my eyes as well while I’m at it
The Star-Ledger. Great sports section. they actually have a good lib columnist. Old guy named John Farmer.
she hadn’t rehearsed it. that’s why.
Getting it delivered by tanker truck now?
Ya, y’know. You just can’t blink!
That’s her schtick. She’s just an amped-up decider. I think it’d be a good point to make to people who are at all sick of the decider approach to hijacking our lives and our gov’t. The you-can’t-blink mentality does NOT match with “less government.”
It sounded to me like she was trying, somewhat incoherently, to say that the VP is indeed both and neither ExecBranch nor LegBranch, with the implication that it is thus exempt from oversight by these branches, and thus has “flexibility”.
Scary.
She was cold and impersonal the whole night … if she really was going to connect with “Real Americans”, she had to do it with emotions and failed to do so …
yup,she didnt skip a beat
Lord … PatBuch is scary in HD !
Her narrative is: I don’t have to be competent or knowledgeable bout things cos that’s what you losers in DC are - armed with facts. I’m a gal with small town values and I gonna teach you haow to do it. I’m an energy expert who can’t pronounce nuclear… see ya don’t have to know anything… just do what feels right .. say it and the heck with the facts or history.
I’ll give her one thing… she’s not ashamed to make a fool of herself in front of 50 million people. That’s her strong point.
Palin tried to needle Biden a bit, but he never let it get to him. He stuck to the issues and always steered the discussion back to McCain’s failures and misjudgements.
The last question about the Achilles heel. The reason Palin didn’t answer it - I don’t think she knows who Achilles was.
Sarah Palin winked at the camera–at least twice!
I can’t stand it!
If that’s true, they need to fire the person who was talking to her.
McSame’s campaign peaked in mid-September. It’s all downhill from here.
Which is why Biden clearly and appropriately called it hogwash. I actually ran into the other room, startling Mrs. FGD, when the topic of FourthBranch came up tonight. The thought of Cheney’s power going to that woman is truly frightening!
what does it say when a vice-presidential candidate is getting mad props for simply having *some* answer to a question, as opposed to totally blanking?
(I need some appropriate yiddish here).
he even smiled sometimes and i was reading the pundits saying beforehand that he was to never show his teeth. didn’t hurt him.
yup
UNINSULTABLE
Several times she gave answers that were contradictory in the same answer or in a nearby answer. The two that stand out most to me were: one, we need to have government get out of the way of private industry in terms of laws and regulation, but we need to do more regulation of Wall St. to curb the bad guys ruining the economy, and two we shouldn’t tax the oil companies, but she managed to get an excess profits tax on oil companies in Alaska and give the money back to the people of the state.
HAHahahahahahaha
Off Topic/fyi, in Wisconsin, I just saw an ad from the RNC hanging the Senate bailout bill on Obama.
Palin is an idiot.
but that doesn’t change the fact that Biden is a Very Serious foreign policy expert - who has been wrong about almost all the big issues. and if he really wanted to be helping people in need, i don’t think we would have spent the last couple of years calling him the Senator MBNA.
i think it was a katie moment where she was just talking and hoped to stumble on something and just had no clue.
I know this was the VP debate but I could not help getting the impression that Palin was acting like it was a Presidential debate.
CNN in regular def isn’t too hot, either. The men are all wearing orange makeup. The women have all had too much plastic surgery. And bad plastic surgery doesn’t mix well with anorexia.
Lord … PatBuch is scary in HD !
Obviously, you weren’t drinking heavily enough… *g*
c’mon. we’re having fun and some of us have been drinking a bit. don’t bust our guy, Joe.
Oy !
Letterman’s Top Ten -#1 “Palin mentioned bombing Iran, Pakistan and Tina Fey.”
think 2012
her flag pin was bigger and shinyer than Joe Biden’s, who was waving a white flag of surrender
lol. maybe i should have been drinking too. might have made listening to the debate more enjoyable. *g*
Good grief … I need to dilute that Cranberry Juice some more …
now it begins
Actually, I’m thinking she knows McCain is going to bite the big one soon and she sees herself as already President.
Roger Simon (Politico) is gonna break his back, bending over to pump Palin - on Tweety.
he’s made so many bargains with the devil, what’s one more with lipstick?
MSNBC folks are grabbing onto Palin’s VP powers statements. And I’m grateful.
he is as vapid and silly as she
uh-oh. carriage turn-into-pumpkin time here in EST, gotta go. final thought. i thought biden started out kinda tentative. settled into form. but she did very well. pause (as suze says for dr. dick) for her. i’m so glad the polls seem to be showing people are giving her a W just because she did good. for her final, final thought? she sucked.
I really Digg Joe Biden!
Joe was my Senator from 1968 until I left tiny DE in 1981 — we grieved for him when this terrible car accident happened. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for him, and he did a GREAT job tonight.
Funny, isn’t it? You think anybody else caught that? /s The Republicans made a ton of problems for their candidates. Now smaller government is needed with more regulation (but only for the crooks on wall street). Heavy metals in our drinking water is okee dokeee, yoo betcha!
Honey I’m home from the Debate watching party….. So what did everyone think?
Would you like to re-phrase that?
If I were McCain, I wouldn’t go moose hunting with her.
Christine !
He was great !
like the *g* at the end. i was wondering if i should have put a s/ at the end of mine but you got it.
the hack from Politico gets it.
“There were no follow-up questions.”
(and that’s why she did so *wonderfully*!)
feh.
first thing tweety talked about immediately after the debate.
not especially
There were things I needed to do immediately after the debate, and I missed all the punditry.
Can anyone give me a general sense of their comments?
(I do plan to go and read the threads now)
Exactly. I think she confidently expects to be President during their first term.
And along those lines. Has there been an election in recent years where three of the four candidates have not released their complete medical records? It seems like Obama is the only one of this bunch who has fully released his.
strangest.debate.ever.
Palin says our nukes are gentle nukes. God Bless The USA!
Oh some times it is good to live in Arizona and know people who know people…… like someone who has family who works for the McCain campaign …….hohohohoho
It seems our little beauty queen didn’t want to do all that practicing up at Sedona and had a big fight and refused……. Palin told them……”she was going to be herself”……
time to take my spine and my leg to bed,
good night friends.
You know, Petro, he just has a huge heart, and a big mouth that can fit both feet inside. And we love him for it. And, he is daym smart!
What did the partiers think?
pain free sleep wishes tex
Great note. However, it would be helpful to include the link to the YouTube clip. I want to send that (pretty much) all over the world.
Thanks much for the work you are doing here.
That’s the spirit. You can guess what McCain has been muttering under his breath about them apples, you betcha!
What does that mean - if anything?
‘nite, Betsy.
I would like to have a beer with Joe Biden
I hope I never have to be in the same room with Sarah Palin
Repubs: Palin won/owned Biden
Everyone with a Brain: WTF … R2D2 was more personable …
“There were no follow-up questions.”
(and that’s why she did so *wonderfully*!)
—-
Glad that they noticed jayt. This was more joint speechifying. It wasn’t a debate and wasn’t even a joint press conference. The GOP rushing in to change the rules at the last minute made it even less like a debate than others we’ve seen.
Wish they had announced that before the debate “Hay, audience, just an FYI, GOP rigged this thing a couple of weeks ago when it became clear Palin could not handle a follow-up.’
I think Biden won, so it did not work well enough. It may have even worked to Biden’s advantage: less time for gaffes and blow-harding, and more time to pound platforms.
Good night. Hope you sleep all the way thru to sunny morning.
Can’t blame her for that. Too bad for her that she was herself
Palin a combination of a fence turtle and a beauty queen trapped in a ground hog day unending contests….
G’nite Betsy ! Sleep the sleep of the just !
Tweets makes a really good point. 11:00 at night, and she brings the baby up on stage.
That baby should be in bed.
The lack of follow-up questions was appalling.
I am *so* glad I didn’t see Sarah’s wink. There might very well have been an ugly gastro-expulsive moment here at chez jayt.
IMHO Palin can’t talk her way out of a paper bag…..
she is a strange ranger
If you click directly onto the YouTube — not the arrow th start the video, but off to the side on the screen part — it will take you directly to the YouTube page and you can grab the link by cutting and pasting from there. HTH!
Someone said on an earlier thread that there is a one in six chance someone with McSame’s medical history and age would not live out the term. I actually thought the odds were worse (or better, by Palin’s view).
I don’t know. It ought to be required though.
Palin indicated that our nukes are not as dangerous as other countries’ nukes and we’re cool to use them cuz they’re safer to use on people.
nite Betsy. Sleep well.
Biden is like that Uncle who knows all the right answers and everyone hates him for that.
I’m really glad that he is where he is.
Not a big Biden fan, but I think he does have some heart and come conscience left, like most other Democratic candidates did this year.
I do hope that Obama/Biden win. But that is just the first step in a real progressive movement. It is not and end. Just a means. Not to slight Obama/Biden, or sound cold, but poltically they are means not ends.
But she played the porn star character really well…… the “Naughty Librarian” …. that’s why all the repug while guys love her…….. that character…… if you get in the back of the stacks then she will take off her glasses and let her hair down…. Most of the woman thought she was flirting through the whole thing….
That was part of the negotiated debate format. Short answers, rapid timing, little to no follow-up.
That is a YouTube that I hope gets spread far & wide. And fast.
You had two opportunities and missed them both. It was embarrassing for me! Tina Fey is gonna nail her for the winking.
The GOP rushing in to change the rules at the last minute made it even less like a debate than others we’ve seen.
I don’t know that that’s the case, actually. I’m pretty sure that the R’s pitched to Rahm that they wanted it short and sweet, quick question-and-answer, no back and forth, no *debating* - and Rahm said “Sure!”
I thought that Biden, being a Catholic, was gonna point out that
Good night. Sleep well, and dream happy thoughts about Joe Biden’s performance tonight.
Went to an Obama debate party. Again, I highly recommend them, both for spirit during the debate, interesting discussions afteward, and interesting contacts for GOTV work for October.
This one was not in a home, in a restaurant/nightclub. So, the joint got impatient since they wanted the night crowd to come in and spend money, so after awhile they started shooing us out. I guess we should have drank more booze.
Thanks for all the nice wishes. This is where I’ll be.
She beat the spread ?
That’s what they’re going with ? Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence …
If she thinks that she should be put away in a safe place and left there. That’s just amazing.
She didn’t burst into flames at the podium. That was the bet.
maybe so. Maybe the Democrats liked the idea too. If they did, so much the worse for them.
Anyway, I think it went well for Biden and he will probably get some kind of win/tie weasaly thingee from pundits and win from pubic, and that is good enough for me.
Me too. I am hopeful tonight for the first time in a while. We talk at work all the time (so grateful to work in a totally Dem enviroment) and we try to be positive without being unbearable.
Thanks Christy. That was the man I met in Iowa. What you see is what you get with Biden. Imperfect, deep, awkward, decent, brilliant, impulsive, passionate, eloquent, ordinary, and real. He will be a great vice president. He will go visit countries around the world and begin to restore the moral capital we squandered, and find a way out of these flaming mazes we are in. He will be at Obama’s elbow when he picks a Supreme Court justice, and the nominee will meet him before she/he gets to be the nominee. He will be over in the capitol on many days, persuading, listening, and dealing to get Obama’s agenda passed. He is not everything you would want, but neither is Obama. In his way, he is more than enough. I was proud of him tonight.
IIRC, It was said fairly late in the debate. Weird thing to say.
Ours was at a local Mexican restaurant who love to have us come in….. we have increased their regular business and we make sure they get enough food & drink orders to make it worth their while……
ummm, I have no problem with the “Naughty Librarian” thing.
However, Sarah is totally giving naughty librarians a bad name/image. And really screwing up the whole concept for me….
Sanity tops my list.
Standard Repub MO … set the bar so low, they can’t possibly go below it …
Sarah Palin wants to be a
pigCheney with lipstick.He doesn’t drink. Never had alcohol in his life. “Doesn’t trust his genes.”
The last two sentences from the NYT editorial on the debate:
“The problem with Ms. Palin’s candidacy, which she underscored in her appearance at the debate on Thursday night, is not that she didn’t attend a fancy school or go backpacking in Europe after college. It is her disdain for knowledge, education, experience and contemplative leadership.”
Ouch.
Buchannon won’t shut up. He’s selling Palin hard.
PatBuch says Palin has a rich vocabulary … does he get free drinks on the show ?
If the baby’s still on an Alaska clock, it’s early enough. Actually, my daughter’s bedtime didn’t become too critical until she was more of a toddler. As a baby, she was out all through the day, and up and down all around the clock. Bedtime didn’t much matter. She slept wherever she was. Now I really follow a schedule.
My friend had to bring her 6 year old to work for an all-night software install–brought a bedroll for the little one and she “camped out” under my pal’s desk. We are both just surviving raising our little girls on our own, in our industry. I’ve had to sacrifice perfection too… I’m actually dialed into work right now, working an install while my girl sleeps. I’m horrified by Palin’s being in the race, but not so much by motherhood stuff like this. I think it’s not a good tactic to tackle working moms on things like this.
Yeaaaaaaaah! Way to go Joe!
I think he won as decisively as Barack did in his debate.
THIS is what America needs — the grownups HAVE arrived.
Gene Robinson tearing Pat limb from limb.
I can’t believe that Pat Buchanadana *still* is all orgasmic about Sarah.
Gotta be chemically induced.
Too bad he’s genetically incapable of recognizing the ridiculosity that is - *him*.
Palin reminds me of the PTO mom who flirts with the other moms husbands causing all kinds of trouble. Not funny, not cute, and definitely not welcome.
Debate party in a small to medium Mexican restuarant sounds like fun. This was a big restaurant/nightclub place, so quite impersonal. They had know idea who was who and there was line forming for the club stuff, so after awhile some one came on the microphone and told the Obama campaign people it was, like, over, dude, and we should find our way out.
Exactly. Back in the day if you were not in tip top health you were automatically disqualified for the Presidency.
What happened to that…hmmm can you say desperate Republicans.
The Bush puppet presidency worked out so great they want to go for three in a row.
I’m so glad you put up this clip, Christy. It was the part of the debate that really moved me. It was so clearly so genuine and spontaneous of him.
NO he drinks deeply from the Rethuglian KoolAid Pat is a blowhard Reich Wingnut!!
my hubby doesn’t get why she is considered a milf. she has the opposite effect on him
YES. That’s what it felt like last week with Obama. Now with Biden. I feel proud to be a Democrat, by association.
I do agree that Biden did very well. Both Obama and Biden have been growing on me. I think the Obama campaign has discipline and vision.
Some people and pundits have dinging ol’ Joe for not being prominent enough. But I have been watching the both of their youtubes. Biden has been practicing the same lines, arguments, and pitches over and over again since right after the election. His speechifying has improved immensly. I think that was a plan, and maybe the Democrats did accpet the attempted GOP debate format rigging for that reason.
Though I never would have thought it possible, Pat Buchanan has scaled new heights, and has never made a bigger fool of himself than tonight.
I know I find it infuriating that Pat Buchanan spoke out so loudly and consistently against the war, when so many Democrats did not, and many still will not.
Pisses me right off.
Crud! I meant to quote “the grownups have arrived” from MarkH @ 180! Sorry!
Me too …
There was a reporter from HuffingtonPost who also came and interviewed pretty much everyone….
cripes…I cannot replace my Bushisms calendar with a Palinese calendar.
Please Mr. Buchanan a “rich” vocabulary?
What happy dust is he sniffing?
Agreed !
Does listening to Palin make anyone else want to drink and play MadLibs?
so what will the media meme be tomorrow?
May have been more the illusion of good health. Look at Kennedy, FDR - their health problems were kept under wraps by the media. (And the country was better off, IMO.)
Prolly ’cause what she says supports the rich …
Palin countered Biden’s tax talk with the old Republican line - redistribution of wealth. The rethugs better throw that one away. After eight years of trickle down, redistribution of wealth sounds pretty good right now to most of us.
That pit bull won’t hunt anymore.
my hubby doesn’t get why she is considered a milf.
I thought she was a *gilf*.
she fares better in that group.
As a mom and former daycare provider- not because I needed the $2 an hour per child but because I couldn’t stand the thought of these infants and toddlers going into “institutionalized care”, what struck me most was the way she handled Twig as a prop. I know she was on national TV and it was all strange. But so was he. I can’t imagine holding a child of mine in that impersonal,detached body language when he’s subjected to all those lights and noise as a 5 month old.
Maybe I’m just too touchy, feelly…..it sucked.
Why does MSNBC put Buchanan on 24/7? He is a certifide nut.
I enjoy listening to conservative commentary, but he isn’t a conservative. He is a fascist. His writing on the Third Reich is excremental and worse.
I wouldn’t mind hearing from him very occasioanally, but literally having him on morning, noon and night is a disservice to civil discourse.
re getting the /s - don’t know why, as my snark meter has been busted since the convention. dumb luck tonight.
Have we talked about the gay rights thing yet? They were pretty much identical, which just blew my mind. Palin’s answer about honoring contracts was especially interesting, since several of the anti-gay-rights amendments have gone out of their way to nullify contracts within gay couples that are meant to ensure that they have marriage-like rights. I really wanted someone to say, “Um, marriage IS a contract. That’s the whole point! It’s a contract between two people that is recognized by the state.”
Criminal!
Biden: Statesman, human, knowledgable, gracious.
Palin: Cold, rehearsed, aggressive, mean, Neocon tool.
Betcha he goes home an cries. :)
Already hearing it:
“Palin Exceeds Media’s Expectations!”
so what will the media meme be tomorrow?
JoeScar doesn’t count, right?
(in any sense of the term)
Christy!
Our Joe was Great!
Sarah is Out of her League - She doesn’t have Presidential Timbre.
McCain isn’t Fit to be President (poor judgment), and Palin isn’t Qualified to be Vice-President (non-rational thinker).
Now, I think We can Steam-roll this Election.
67 Senate Seats is Doable (can impeach judges, etc)
300 House Seats is Very Possible (authentic populism)
We shouldn’t just strive to Win this Election - We should aim to Change America.
Take America Back!
Interesting. That’s the impression I had too.
She clearly ISN’T a fountain of knowledge.
You betcha!
ls- is this you?
Hmmm. I gotta WATCH with my eyes these things. I listen, and I read… Same thing happened with Obama/McCain. I listened, then I saw the things others were seeing when I watched the debate a second time.
all i know is mister said his goes into hiding when she’s on screen and starts digging south as soon as she starts talking
I have this sneaking suspicion that the milf stuff is something the Repubs thought up to attract their baser base. All hype. I shuddered watching her doing her little show with winks and flirty twitches. As a woman it really bothered me to see this woman vying for VP of the United States of America acting like a silly fool.
Just watched the clip where Biden gets choked up talking about his days as single parent after his first wifes death. I missed that.
Don’t want to sound like a boor, but… um, I decided to get a beer.
Sorry I missed that. The tragic and trying time be really seared deeply into his soul.
and such a high bar that is too.
dumb asses.
Biden ALMOST threw it back in her face. Alaska’s taxes on oil companies allow the state to write checks (literally) to every citizen in Alaska. THAT’s redistribution of wealth.
Buchanan hopes that his kind of Republican Party — nativist, isolationist, non-corporatist, Christianist — might emerge from the wreckage of the current version and that Palin could be a force there. It’s clear her neoconservative credentials are of recent vintage and can be unlearned.
what did all the squiggly lines on CNN have to say tonight?
From AP - Palin stands her ground … what a f*cking tool !
If I know Biden was going to get choked up I wouldn’t have gone to the bar to get a beear. Honest. I swear. I wouldn’t have. I found that clip moving.
It is a sad commentary of our times that the essential criminality of the view is treated like a small, unimportant detail, hardly worth mentioning.
Bingo!!!!!!
it starts with the tone….. that is where the fingernails hit the blackboard….. then it is all the “Hick” English……. Betcha and don’tcha know……. then you throw the maze walk of her sentence structure and thought pattern….. the nails have gone the whole length of the board….
Now she should be ready for unscripted press conferences just like Joe has many times a day. Aren’t they suppose to be equals?
and such a high bar that is too.
worm-shit height isn’t hard to clear.
What a jerk! Did you see Rachel’s face as he extolled her virtues, like being ATTRACTIVE!
ls - why did ya add 22 to your name? are you 22? born in 22? have 22 grandkids?
I’m heartened to see that America hates Palin. I don’t think the pep-rally bullshit is going over well right now, or the flirty schoolteacher thing. Completely insulting and classless.
Palin got trapped into expressing more consideration than she wanted to for gay rights. Though she tried to backpedal, the cat was out of the bag. Dobson and Perkins are having a hissy fit.
I’m glancing at TPM. One thing I definitely did not miss was the odd stuff Palin said about Cheneyfying the Senate. Yuuuuuuck. That must have gone over like bubonic plague with the audience. I’m glad that Biden has a very strong, and knowedgeagle response.
You’d think she’d at least be familiar with the phrase’s usage. Lots of people know what the hell it means, even if they don’t know the actual legend of Achilles!
That just blows my mind.
Amen to that. I wrote my wingnut uncle after the convention and pointed out that a little baby with Downs syndrome was being used as a campaign prop and Focus on the Family didn’t seem to have anything to say about it. He didn’t touch that one.
Rachel was prolly puking her guts out, thanks to Pat … which is why Eugene had to sub for her later on … (that’s my take and I’m sticking to it)
I’ve never figured out what they see in ol’ Pat. He’s SO outdated. Can’t they find a handsome new fascist to replace him? I’m sure there’s many waiting in the wings to take his place.
what a f*cking tool !
Well, it does say right there on the byline - AP…
AP needs some kind of disclaimer like wiki has - “content not verified” (or something like that)
I looked at my husband and said, “That comment just totally lost the debate for her and it will play over and over.”
Alias !
Don’t blame Sarah, she’s an expert on Russia, not Greek Mythology … *g*
dingdingding!!!
I don’t know how wide the distribution was, but the Planned Parenthood ad about the Rape Kit Billa from Wasilla (and her sidekick, McCain) ran in the D.C. media market.
That was as effective an ad as I’ve ever seen, with perfect timing.
Yes, that was interesting. I think Palin tried to finesse with the standard, “we aren’t bigots, but we won’t do a dang thing to help anyone with reasonable proposals for social solutions. But, hey, I have gay best friends who I really love, and when they get messed up and screwed over by discrimination, gosh darn it, I be right there with to cry in the beer. But, won’t do anything.”
And somehow she got trapped into saying the sensible thing.
Suz,
Do you think what I think?
As a woman it really bothered me to see this woman vying for VP of the United States of America acting like a silly fool.
Mrs. punaise was ready to throw things at the TV, uttering several unmentionable insults in French.
It’s me…I got all screwed up, because my monitor crashed, and I tried to log on from Mr. LS’s computer…and then I forgot what my password was…and then I forgot that my email changed…and then, and then…OY!!!
Tis moi. :)
ok, tell me I’m not imagining this:
I swear I heard Palin say, “Now is the time for McCain to leave, uh .. lead.”
Did I really hear this slip???
It was surreal.
*laughs and heads to scrounge up some supper*
Heya Petro!
Not to them, it isn’t; if it’s called “marriage,” then it’s religious, no matter what kind of law it is.
I remember a surreal experience in 2000, I think, when Gary Bauer was still running for president, and in a radio interview he was basically asked if marriage is religious, why is government involved in it at all? And he answered, essentially, hmm, I don’t know, I think it has something to do with government benefits…
Think about it. He was the head of a right-wing “Family” group that was obsessed with marriage, and he has no idea that while weddings may be religious, marriage has been a government-sanctioned contract for centuries. It’s stunning, but it’s like that in everything, “it’s always been this way” really means “for as long as I can remember.”
Biden lost.
So have we all.
The sooner we close down the FED and start over, the better.
That’s reminiscent of Ronald Reagan saying that if a mistake had been made we’d just send a radio signal and turn ‘em around & bring ‘em back.
Problem was there’s no radio signal receiver in nuke ICBMs and if you did bring ‘em back they’d just blow you up.
Then the nuclear radiation would still be blown around the earth by the winds and get everybody.
Yeah, more common sense please.
Yes. You did indeed hear that.
I didn’t assign it much importance.
i knew it was you - was trying to figure out the why because i knew you were not trying to sock puppet.
today sure felt like a monday to me
the Planned Parenthood ad about the Rape Kit Billa from Wasilla (and her sidekick, McCain) ran in the D.C. media market.
darn - we didn’t get that here in Indiana. And with a 50-50 race going on here, I’d sure like to see it…
Oh yeah, and first I chose LS2…but then it said it had to be 4 characters…sooo…LS22…
Dobson, who allegedly propped her up for the veep pick, did not want to hear about any gay friends or tolerance.
There was steam coming out of Dobson’s ears about then!
OMG … Hawaii has a Repub Governor ?
“Governor Palin exceeded expectations … “
Governor Swift, what exactly were those expectations ?
One thing that struck me is that McCain/Palin has never said one syllable about what ‘win’ means in Iraq. I waited for it during the debate, thinking that they have to say *something* sooner or later.
Disappointed that Biden didn’t response with his 1 minute “Surge 101 for Dummies Lesson”, which I have seen him give over and over again on Youtube in speeches and Q&As and in media interviews. Dang, Biden has that down pat, and I really wanted to hear him teach it to Palin. But he didn’t.
But the essential absurdity of the McCain/Palin position is showing through. Maybe it was best to just let her repeat it that meaningless line over and over again.
Yep. It was pretty funny.
Best Freudian Slip of the night. Pack it up and go and take Sarah with you.
I was yelling at my computer(watched online at CNN) in some form of english :)
I have been without a computer for 2 days…Gawd…especially when I wanted to express my thoughts about the debate….
It has been a lesson in meditation….Hi Petro..waving!!!
Biden lost? Sarah didn’t drool on herself or trip and fall on her face. she threw red meat to the base and hid behind the prohibition on follow-ups. How that translates into a Biden loss escapes me.
Oh, I think it is revelatory….much as it was when she referred to the ticket as Palin-McCain. She truly sees him as a temporary roadblock to her being President.
I heard her say that too. A freudian slip of her tongue it was.
((((( LS )))))
Rachel is a pro, but I surely noticed the storm clouds in her eyebrows tonight. Pissed much? SP ignores policy and that pisses her off!
98% uncommitted voters say Biden knowledgeable about important issues. Well done, Joe!
BTW…I swear I heard Palin refer to Biden as “O’Biden”. Did anyone catch that??? It is not in the transcript as far as I can see, but I swear I heard it.
She’s a meanie….biatch, if you ask me.
I think chemsitry between McCain and Palin is somewhat lacking. I think that is very mutual. Both are ambitious pols on the take who are using each other. If anyone ever sees them getting along half as well as the leading Democrats from Obama/Biden on down, please let us know as soon as possible. It will be NEWS, I think.
Ah, Rachel on LateTweety. Now, SHE’S a hottie.
They think that if they say it often enough, it’ll be true …
Yes, we (Mr. LS and I ) both heard it.
But good on Matthews for hitting Palin for not answering questions.
I think what pisses her off is the dissonance of some of her compatriots who are drinking the swill. I see her as deeply disappointed in the profession.
she’s a heather
Yep. I heard that too.
Me, too and scaring the hell out of the dog. :)
ah, all this debating has plumb tuckered (!) me out.
I guess I’m a tired lil tucker.
woops - time out - Rachel’s back on.
Harwood’s got the meme, I think. “She stopped the bleeding.”
Or a Mean Girl.
Biden won hands down.
MSM operative word: Mean.
Please Rachel, please say it … “Buchanan is a Crack Head !”
Honestly, I think her answers about gay rights are like her answer to Katie Couric’s question about the right to privacy. Palin knows by rote the wingnut positions she believes, but doesn’t understand the supposed logic underlying them, so if you ask her about that without giving her a hint, she gives a vaguely reasonable answers which she doesn’t know completely contradicts her wingnut rote.
(And based on the reports from Alaska that she was a petty tyrant but didn’t seriously push a right-wing agenda, I suspect that she’s a sociopath like Bush, who doesn’t sincerely believe anything, but can pretend to have any views which serve her ambition.)
I haven’t seen a lot of chemistry between Obama and Biden, but their does seem to be some serious respect.
What could their possibly be between McCain and Palin (other than a really grubby gilf thought prancing through the old goat’s mind), he didn’t meet her but once prior to the tap.
She is a mean one. She verbally sucker punched Joe all throughout the debate, but he never took the bait. He stayed a Senator and a gentleman through it all. He won on all levels in that debate.
fire paulson. now. tonight. not a moment to waste.
Yes. My high school son has printed O’Biden stickers off as I type…
i agree. i think earlier he was attracted to her physically but now that he’s been running so much damage control for her, i betcha that’s not operating any more.
LOL definitely.
haha, I just watched a few minutes of replay on cnn when Joe took on McCain for endless war and the graphy thingy went way up and stayed up and came crashing down when sarah said surge. really.
She has the most beautiful eyes. An exceptionally handsome human; and the fact that she’s smart as hell doesn’t do anything to hurt that impression at all.
Harwood’s shirt looks like it’s made from Nuclear materiel on my teevee …
I didn’t hear it but about four or five commenters did a few threads back. Funny. she probably got crossed up in Obama/Biden.
The yelling or Palin scared your dog? :)
Even after 8 years of Bush where more new wealth has gone to the upper-income people than since the 1920s we saw Barack Obama voting for a $700B rescue plan for … the rich.
Where’s that class war again?
If anything it could be argued that the Obama-Biden ticket is too easy on the rich. But, they favor fixing the economy for ALL of America and they’ll overlook smaller issues to PUT AMERICA FIRST.
nice summary, christy
with regard to the “rich vocabulary,” I am just disappointed that Palin did not find an excuse to use the word “festooned”
he didn’t meet her but once prior to the tap.
Johnny’s had a boat-load of “meaningful relationships” that didn’t even involve *one* pre-meeting….
No kidding! I stop and watch the tv when she starts talking.
I didn’t see a lot of the post-debate coverage, but there was one moment when Buchanan was on with Rachel that just had me grinning. He was talking about the bailout, blathering that what the Republicans needed to do was vote and get it behind them, in hopes of returning to issues that were better for them.
I grinned and thought “just like the Dems with the Iraq War vote in 2002.”
(To be fair, Pat didn’t seem to think it was likely to work, either, just that it was their only possible chance.)
Harwood’s shirt looks like it’s made from Nuclear materiel on my teevee …
Nuclear?
Y’all sure talk funny up there… *g*
Nuk-yoo-lurr.
i think you’re right.
there ya go.
she’s definitely faking values.
One more thing, did everybody notice how she was looking “down” and reading notes throughout the debate? Was there a teleprompter in her podium? It is impossible that there were “that” many notes available to read as the questions came fast and furiously. Biden too, but he didn’t look down half as much. What’s up with that???
The other nite, Pat said he would not vote for it personally.
Well, I meant a manly man, safe hug, type of chemstry.
But definitely respect. I have been youtubing up a storm late at night with both Obama and Biden, and watching both of them closely. They seem to admire each other’s styles, and each seems to be taking notes from other when does something that really works. Not sure if that is chemesitry or respect or what, but a big contrast to the two grifters.
maybe a laptop.
Agreed.
Hugh, thanks for posting the link.
This HAS to come up on the House floor tomorrow.
That is what I was thinking…but I didn’t know they could do that. Sure looked like the answers were being fed visually though.
nite all.
When I was watching the wrap up, I was struck with the comfortableness I felt watching Biden (I guess that’s called confidence or trust? I don’t know what that feels like anymore) and his sincerity in what he was saying and feeling. I felt it.
then the camera goes to Palin and it was like nails on the chalkboard. Hi! I’m totally faking my way through all this stuff you folks call politics! You can trust me!
It was so wrenching, my eyeballs still hurt. Made Biden look even more real. And she looked even more amateur. A great amateur, but not up to the job.
late late nite upstairs
I went to the rally in Fredericksburg last weekend, and they seemed to have pretty good chemistry. Maybe not Clinton/Gore level, but they seemed very comfortable with each other, and ad-libbed jokes from Barack about Joe being such a sharp dresser, he hoped his suit wouldn’t get ruined in the rain.
new thread
Heh. People like that are immune to criticism except on one little thing…which I am not allowed to tell to anyone, not even my mother.
As an atheist who was married by a minister I just don’t understand the difference between marriage and civil unions. Had it been my choice I’d have preferred a civil union. Is there a psychological difference?
I know I expected to squirm during the God thing but I was in such shock to find myself going thru with marrying that it really didn’t impact me.
Not like the caterers showing up late…..
I always felt a covenant agreement was an agreement. You’re in. You committed.
bush winks at
the camera fequently, too. It’s just as sickening. Must poll well with the rove crew I guess.Someone earlier on this thread or one before mentioned the weird way Palin jumped to “place an Embassy in Jerusalem”. I thought it sounded odd too. Then I wondered, maybe she meant a religious embassy? (snark)
Maybe Pat Robertson’s remark about strokes and knowing God’s mind didn’t scuttle the plan for a Christian theme park.
I don’t know what sort of relationships John McCain has had or can have, but the more you seriously look into his history, he is this marvelous–almost miraculous–contrast between fact and narrative.
Everything about the “story” of the man seems to be contrasted by his own facts.
He was an idiot in school; a shitty pilot; a collaborative prisoner of war; a corrupt politician; a party line toer with aspirations of maverickisity but ultimately a lock step brownshirter to the cause.
But his story persist as Hero…reformer…maverick…changer.
I think the best thing I heard tonight was Joe Biden simply stating, “He is no maverick on the issues that matter.”
Now, if he didn’t preface that with “I love him.” Why does anybody love him? He really seems like a shitty little dude.
That’s what I thought at first, but on second thought, I’m inclined to believe that she knows what Achilles heel means, but admitting any kind of weakness wasn’t in her talking points. (Which itself would be kind of bizarre, since “what is your greatest weakness” it the standard “turn it into a positive” job interview question.)
I think she might have been under the influence of a witch or something.
It’s time for John McCain to leav…er lead the way home.
I am religious, but I agree. I think marriage should be a religious ceremony, with no particular state sanction for something called marriage, if marriage has any religious overtones. So, I am sure many people both gay and straight will not a gree with me, but I see the two as equivalent.
I would like the state to get out of the business of marryng people. It should be a religious consideration with as little interference from the state as possible.
I want the state to get civil unions right, set boundaries for churches can do so to protect peoples rights, and then get out of the marriage business.
Hope that aint shocking, coming from a religous person.
btw - the house rules committee had an emergency meeting today and reported out a rule to cover consideration of the sellout bailout. and it’s first on tomorrow’s agenda.
i’ll write a dairy first thing in the morning with links and details.
I took “I love him” in the same vein as “Bless his heart”. Means you’re positioning yourself in a public forum to slam em. A meaningless phrase before the strike.
In my opinion it’s not shocking, it’s exactly how I think. I think it’d be better if couples were required to register for a civil union with the state,and all the legally binding issues those unions would ensure, and marry as a religious ceremony as a community covenant thing.
But the civil union would be the legal, required format. And require legal unbinding.
Yes, I agree. State does civil unions with eye towards portecting peoples’ rights and clearly defining their responsbilities, and faciliating socially useful legal framework for such. Only sticks its nose into religious marraige issues when needed to preserve framework of civil unions.
Would be simpler, clearer and more better all the way around, and more in keeping with separation of church and state.
The CBS poll of “Undecided Voters” actually gave Biden a larger margin over Palin (46%-21%) than Obama got over McCain (40%-22%). So unless Palin swung back some of those people already committed to Obama-Biden (at least more than those on the other side) there could actually be a slight shift in the polls based upon this. About 18% of the Undecideds said that they waited until this and have committed now to Obama. Only 10% swung to McCain.
I’ll go with that differential!
It won’t change numbers by very much since in most States the Undecideds are only about 5%. That would mean a gain of about a point for Obama and half that for McCain. Still it might suggest a pattern of 2:1 erosion for the rest…especially as undecideds are generally followers of the National trend of opinion.
This was a replay of Dan Quayle - Sen. Benston debate.
Quayle basically ignored most of the questions, went straight to the same repeated TALKING POINTS every chance he had. Ditto for Palin.
The Republican paid pundits raved about how Quayle was focused, and on-point. In fact he was showing disrespect for the debate questions, and disrespect for the American people who tuned in to hear positions, instead of pre-manufactured slogans and disproven charges.
At least, Dan Qualye didn’t have the nerve to wink at the audience, and ask for increased powers for the vice presidency.
ENOUGH!