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So yeah, if you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with BS. Off I go to open up the latest version of the Wall Street bailout bill (aka. "bending the middle class over the table Act") and what do I find? Up from 104 pages to… 451. The original bill was 3 pages. Given the exponential growth of each version of this bill, I fear we must either kill it now, or allow it to pass, out of fear that if its growth continue it may end in such a cyclopean extent that it destroys all rational thought, matter and energy in the universe in a blizzard of legalese, corruption and pork.
On a more serious note, they are definitely throwing in the kitchen sink in an attempt to get this to pass. "You say you need a kitchen sink in order to vote for this? Fine, here it is!" For example, renewable energy credit extension has been added to the bill. Sure, I support the credits, but say what? No bankruptcy protection, but renewable credits? Calculated Risk’s favorite is an excise tax exemption for wooden arrows for children. Er, ummm, wtf?
On the substance of the matter at hand, of course, it isn’t much changed. Increasing how much the FDIC insures is good, but something the FDIC could have done itself at Presidential order, it has the authority (and IRAs were already insured to $250,000). As "concessions" go, that’s very very little since Obama or Bush could have just said "make it so". Adding in letting the FDIC borrow infinitely from treasury is also good, but it’s an administrative detail, the guarantee was already there.
There’s still no bankruptcy protection for ordinary people. The treasury secretary can still spend money on any asset he wants, pay whatever he wants, sell it for whatever he wants and doesn’t have to take an equity or bond share if he does, and if does do it can’t take voting stock but must take non-voting stock. Executive compensation restrictions are a joke, just "pay a little bit more tax on your pay" and overall there’s nothing in here, nothing at all, which would stop banks from continuing to engage in the same practices as got them here. That’s insane. This isn’t even closing the barn door once the horses are all out, this is buying new horses and deliberately leaving the barn door open.
Bottom line: a bad bill which has been larded up with various legislators pet bills to get the votes necessary to pass. Everything I’m hearing says it will easily make it through the Senate. The real fight remains in the house.
If you’re feeling masochistic, put your favorite new provisions in comments below.
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My woody allen joke is epu but editorially belongs here.
Woody brags about his speed reading course and afterwards he was able to read War and Peace in a day. “What’s it about?” someone asks. “Russia.”
400 pages? Debate for five minutes and vote? yikes. Can we all just crash the email system again with our demands for bankruptcy and mortgage relief? jerks.
They are going to require 60 votes to pass, right? Because Harry doesn’t want this one hung solely around his neck, what with mail servers crashing due to the opposition to it and all.
Why, why, why is it so difficult for them to get some actual REGULATION and OVERSIGHT into this thing?
How will this mesh with $600+ Billion in paper Bernanke is printing now? I thought the print job was in response to not getting the House bill passed.
OT: CNN polls today echo the Q-polls from earlier today. Obama up big in every state they polled, including +9 in VA. Amazing.
Oooo…that’s good!
Ah the baffle them with bullshit approach tactic number 1) drown them in paper to hide the truth
one more and I’ll tell folks you’re here:
exactly! my analogy was they crashed all the jags and are asking daddy to buy a new one. no traffic school no paying their own insurance just more goodies for them. I really hate this.
http://politicalticker.blogs.c…..nd-states/
Can anyone voting on it actually claim to have read this bill, at 451 pages?
What a bunch of maroons.
Here’s some info about a possible breakdown on the House side, though.
No, it was in addition to. You can see that by the original debt ceiling, which was far more than the 700 billion, at 1.3 trillion (iirc). That’s because the Fed’s balance sheet just got blown out of the water, so it needs Treasury to raise money for it.
thanks ian – we were live blogging the debate as OT in the previous thread.
EPU’ed
Reed talks about how this is a tourniquet. Wall Street hearing that Congress is willing to spend $700 billion on tourniquets immediately shorts tourniquets. Goldman Sachs announces it will start selling tourniquet backed securities. European banks rush to buy these new instruments because as one British banker notes, “Tourniquets are so much more secure than houses and I’m sure these tourniquets will save us all.”
Puzzle me this:
Can this Congress find its ass, using two hands, a flashlight, and having the directions read to them?
My hope is that it gets big enough to cause constipation and Congress will be unable to pass it.
Not to mention imbessels and ignoranimuses.
Digg it here.
I thought McCain/Bush were against pork, earmarks and putting politics into the bill? Bankruptcy protection is politics but a tax exemption for wooden arrows is good?
Are you sure the GOP and McCain is going to vote for this bailout they still have those commercials to run against this bill right?
The GOP is behind in the election, opposing the bailout is the new anti gay marriage, Willy Horton its something popular they can demagogue with and try and create a game changer.
I fear Obama is being played.
hand slapped against forehead. of course, the oldest litigator’s trick in the book re disclosure. “it’s all in there!”
If Paulson buys up my mortgage, then sells it to me for 10 cents, I’ll support this bill. Otherwise, no deal.
And regarding dosido @ 7:
Once again, the Onion nails it: Wealthy Teen Nearly Experiences Consequence
“In what local authorities are calling a “near tragedy,” Charles Wentworth, a 17-year-old Rutgers Preparatory senior and member of the affluent Wentworth family, came perilously close to suffering a consequence resulting from his own wrongdoing Saturday.”
live on cspan2 now. there were a few prior statements earlier in the day, but now is the official time for the debate. senator dodd introduced the legislation and made an impassioned statement in support of it’s passage.
since then, everyone who has spoken, R and D, has been in support of passage. no back and forth as usual.
Mitch McConnell has this ability of both irritating me and putting me to sleep at the same time.
bob casey up. praises dodd’s bipartisan work.
I wonder how a bad bailout will hurt the economy later on? I have no doubt a bad bailout is worse than doing nothing longterm short term the market should rally…unless this bill really really sucks.
I think he was one of many doing the playing.
The dirty little secret that no one wants to mention is the fact that taxes are going to have to be raised (no matter who is President and no matter who controls Congress) to close the – record and growing – deficit and also to cover this – off the budget – parting gift that the Bush Administration is leaving our Country.
McConnell mentioned a bunch of people supporting this crap, including CNBC’s Larry Kudlow.
Run to the hills Larry likes the bailout!
from the boston globe this morning:
Small fish like Obama, McCain etc think they are players because the get scraps.
McCain might continue the Bush policy of heaping it on our growing mountain of national debt. Eventually, they can scrap plans for the Yucca Mountain site and start storing the waste from his new nuclear reactors there.
Because then we’d be able to hold them responsible for what they’re doing.
If it’s any consolation, we’re not at all alone in wanting this one to fail. At least half the people voting in the current CNN online poll are against passage.
(If Schumer, Coburn, and McConnell like it, there must be something wrong.)
Bob Casey doing the list of hits occurring in his state. Says it isn’t a bailout, it’s about stabilization.
I don’t know which distresses me more, that these guys are brazenly lying to us or that they are so gormless that they believe the bill does the crap they say it does.
Kudlow has been a cheerleader for Bush’s economic policies since day one.
He always seems to push the tax-cuts-cure-all strategy. After all that’s
happened, that strategy should be seen the way the Maginot line is seen.
david vitter (r-la) is voting NO.
Great Catch I wish I had or could write like that.
He probably will. He’s going to die soon and Cindy has all the money anyway. Why should Cindy’s little man change anything?
Sounds like the Earmark Bailout Bill.
ignorance is sometimes curable with proper treatment. i’m not so sure the same can be said about stupidity.
obama up
“The real fight remains in the house.”; so true Ian and I urge everyone to get on the phone/email/faxes etc.
I’ve been watching CSPAN and Clinton spoke to what ‘needs to be done after this bill is passed’; so why can’t they do ‘what needs to be done’ NOW ?
This pretty well sums it up:
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com…..-bill.html
Obama is speaking on the floor now. BUT he is not calling for any changes to the bill.
I thought Coburn was against
Obama is up
Vitter giving the conservative case for voting no. Against new bureaucracy, for more tax cuts and more reform (although his idea of reform is probably very different from mine).
obama thanks dodd and gregg.
it’s an outrage that we are here. wallstreet’s mistakes have put taxpayer’s money at risk.
there’s plenty of blame to go around. now is not the time to argue about who started the fire.
when the house of representatives failed to act on monday the markets lost over $1trillion.
we are in a dangerous situation.
The House email system is still sluggish. I have been emailing Pelosi, Frank, and my Rep to tell them there must be NO BAILOUT! Especially not the Senate version.
It is worse than the House version in its lack of protection for taxpayers – and guarantee of a payback. The ONLY thing going for it is the renewable tax credits. Nothing else.
No way! No how! NO BAILOUT GODDAMNIT!
While running errands earlier, I heard a snippet from Obama where he said he would review the program if elected and start over with a new bill if this plan isn’t working. Why doesn’t he just propose a better one now?
Shut up Obama. You are NOT helping. No bailout you shit!
They are using an old bill as the bailout vehicle to avoid starting from scratch, just like the House did. Poor Ron Wyden D-OR(Snark).
obama:
this is not just a wall street crisis it’s an american crisis.
i demanded that this plan include some specific proposals to protect taxpayers.
1. independent board to provide oversight and accountability.
2. we can help wall street without helping main street
3. this can not be a welfare program for wall street
4. taxpayers should be treated as investors
Obama: It’s an outrage. (the meltdown). He’s frustrated and angry too. We need to solve this. blah, blah, blah, can assign blame later. Calls it a rescue plan (not a bailout)
I can’t say I’m disappointed because I expected this schlock.
“For the 3-month Libor rate to have jumped overnight, even after the quarter ended, showed that banks were still hoarding cash.” So does this not say what the real problem is?
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/0…..2008100114
The central banks ALL OVER the world have pumped liquidity into the financial system; now they want the taxpayers to give more money to the banks who-I repeat- are ‘hoarding’.
Can you or I ‘hoard’ our cash from our creditors or regarding food,housing, clothing, and health expenses? Hell no!
Watching Senator Sanders behind Obama keeping his hand over his mouth to keep from barfing at Obama’s speech.
I just watched on C-span as one of our senators explained that the “new and improved ‘non-bailout’ bill” offers protection via regulation and oversight. If the bill is passed, then passed by the House and signed by Fearless Leader . . . don’t the provisions immediately go into effect? My concern is that this seems analogous to giving a bank manager—with allegations of criminality hanging over his head—a vast sum of money to “spend” in whatever manner he chooses . . . and promising the depositors (American taxpayers) that we will begin interviewing for bank security guard positions when we reconvene in January. Looks like ample time to do lots of nasty things in the interim?
The Congress Critters are scared so constituent initiated contact is being blocked. I’ve tried for almost 24 hours to contact my Senators from Idaho.
With any luck, his pandering to Wall Street will hit him in the polling. He needs to be instructed in what is proper behavior for a so-called agent of change.
Change from what? Republican plutocrat to Democrap plutocrat? What’s the difference?
obama:
we must act to prevent the possibility of the crisis becoming a catastrophy.
it’s possible that if we don’t act, it will be ok. but we can’t afford to take the risk.
[me: does this sound like cheney’s 1% policy?]
step up to the plate and lets do what’s right for the country. pass the bill.
this is not the end, this is the begining
He even regurgitates the line about this could even turn a profit and repeats that any losses will be recouped from Wall Street, you know the thing that Paulson derided and dismissed in his famous phone call to bankers.
Another thought–how can “No Earmark McCain” both lead his party toward resolution and still vote for a bill containing ‘earmarks’?
required movie viewing tonight: seven samurai. bankers posing as poor villagers who need saving.
Fiscal responsibility in the 90’s? Say what? that was the dot com bubble.
now obama is advocating changing the bankruptcy law for homeowners – the same one he’s been reported as asking not be included in the
selloutbailout bill.i feel sick.
Thanks. Yikes!
Lard de vivre.
Bailing the boat out…using a rescue boat. Not much difference.
“No real separation between Wall Street and Main Street” — Obama, totally misreading the populist uprising and despair in our nation.
It’s probably worse than that because these are only promises to reform. A lot of Wall Streeters are banking on much of this never really happening.
I have a feeling it’s not going to pass. Anyone else getting that feeling?
Yes
Yeah, new and improved: Section 101(e):
(e) PREVENTING UNJUST ENRICHMENT.—This subsection does not
apply to troubled assets acquired in a merger or acquisition, or a purchase of assets from a financial institution in conservatorship or receivership, or that has initiated bankruptcy proceedings under title 11, United States Code.
So ‘Unjust Enrichment’ doesn’t apply to JPMorganChase,BofA,Citi, or Barclay’s of England because of what has already occurred.
I couldn’t get through to either Feinstein or Boxer in DC and ended up calling their local offices; the local offices had no clue what I was talking about in terms of the specifics. Called my Rep’s DC office and got throiugh and brouhgt this to her attention (while also urging her to vote to have Rove cited for Contempt on a full HOuse vote).
obama gives ends by giving us a bit of his hopeful and to some inspiring words about our future.
NO, the game is fixed in the Senate; Ian is COMPLETELY RIGHT when he says our only hope for decent legislation is in the House.
“We are all in this together. There is no distinction between Wall Street and Main Street.” Yeah, right. Agree with you completely. The Establishment of which Obama is very much a part will do what it will do, and voters should shut up and get over it. I am sure this is a message we can all get behind.
How much of the $700 billion will find its way into McCain campaign coffers by way of donations either to the RNC, the campaign, think tanks, or various 527s?
DeMint calling out Socialism. A bit late for that…
I so love to see Dee-mock-crass-ee in action.
Restores muh faith in humankind, it does …
If the Political Class suck up any closer to the Ruling Class, then a true marrige of convenience must be consummated.
As to who gets ’screwed’ (or is gonna get really screwed), I leave to your well-exercised (if not vexed) imaginations.
Bravo Ian! Let us all stand for Truth, Justice, and the American ‘Way’.
Congress appears to be very busy. And full of gravitas. Since ‘they’ are too busy and too full of it, to pay even the most meager attention to reality as it pummels the rest of us, let us rejoice in the firm belief, that, once the ‘unpleasantness’ of the moment is past, all of our silly concerns will be revisited. With compounded ‘interest’, no doubt.
And someday, we shall scratch our heads and mutter, ‘Who could have …?’
jim demint (r-sc) will vote no because this bill = socialism.
[me: he neglects to mention that it is socialism for wall street]
Now he’s blaming dark people for taking out risky loans. Fascist.
Jim Demint talking against bill. Why is it only crazy conservatives are against this shitpile in the Senate?
Some tools at CNBC are claiming the American people are changing their minds on the bailout? I assume their are no polls to back this up and the MSM is once again trying to shape public opinion.
Here is the trap a bad bailout won’t fix anything just delay it. If Congress is surprised by the emails they get now it will be worse after a betrayal.
The media trusts with the public will drop even lower than it is now.
Nope. 2/3 of them aren’t up for re-election this year. It’ll pass by a landslide, for the simple reason that the Senate looks looking more mature than the House.
demint is blaming the problem on making loans to people who couldn’t afford them.
Quick question: Under the revised bill, will Henry Paulson still be able to get a cashier’s check for $700 billion and then hop on a one-way flight to Brazil? It’s kind of important, because I think his plane ticket is one of those non-refundable types.
because when the democrats reject populism, they leave the playing field open for the rightwing crazy scapegoating populists.
Done. Thanks for the link.
Is there a single liberal in the Senate who opposes this bill?
What was that? It sounded like someone blowing their nose or loudly passing gas. I see the second of these as a metaphor.
I’m not watching demint. is he blaming the lenders or the people who took the loans?
I notice no one mentions the fact that these lenders get a transaction fee (usually) and/or a signing bonus and then a commission when they sell the paper. There is no NO incentive to check creditworthiness. So cry me a river.
I think he has to do it in three trips now. But don’t worry, sometime after he leaves the third time, someone will try to find out if he deposited the first check.
Yes, Larry Kudlow is a fascist neocon’s fascist neocon.
demint:
end fed’s easy money policy.
privatize fannie and freddie
freeze on discretionary spending
deregulate more
… i missed some, all scary.
Buffet invest $8B in Goldman and GE and gets special terms but there is NOTHING in this bill to give taxpayers the same benefits that Buffet has gotten from his stock purchases, just vague references to ‘warrants’ that are undefined in premium or price.
So why not? (snark)
The media have been pushing this bill, i.e. the Paulson plan because a) they want to protect their stock portfolios and b) their corporate masters told them to.
more demint:
lower capital gains taxes.
drill everywhere
Well, if a majority of republics are the ones who end passing tonight’s bill and in the House, then I’m sure since they’re fine with ’socialism’, they’ll be fine when Barack Obama wants to take over the oil industry. LOL Right?
Demint is correct when he says Congress is not honest with the taxpayers.
Sanders.
Yeah because minorities have so much money our lobbyists forced the politicians to make the banks give us loans.
Oh… wait I read that backwards it was the banks lobbyists who forced the politicians to relax standards for loans so the banks could sell bad loans to idiot hedgefunds looking for to good to be true wealth.
It was McCain’s Campaign Manager!
We need to know which banks are hoarding so we know which banks are contributing to the problem. Free market and all that.
demint:
i know this bill will pass the senate. i can only hope it fails in the house.
the only people who have said they will vote against the bailout today are not Democrats.
sanders up with his amendment. finally someone describing the bailout in a way that i can relate to.
this bill does not address how we got here. this bill does not limit golden parachutes.
You know what? I gotta give Mika B. a little credit when she was interviewing one senator this morning. Uh, OK, americans are now insured to $250,000 great yeah. What about the american who has already lost their savings, lost their job and lost their house?
Sanders calling out Paulson for getting us into this mess. “Fox guarding the hen house.”
Good observation betray your heart for cash betray yourself. The GOP betrays everything for their heart Money and Power. Obama needs to either get his priorities straight or get some economic advisers who are not Chicago school.
All of them?
All children below the age of 10, as of Feb 1, 2009, will be given a free pony.
new thread from ian.
Bernie Sanders sounds like a New Yorker
New Ian upstairs.
love the pic of paulson with his hand near forehead like he’s sweating…
really, the villagers hoarding their rice and getting us to lay our lives on the line for them. I gotta admit I like the groveling, a little.
My provision:
The national nuclear waste storage site will be adjacent to Barnacle’s property in Wyoming.
Financial Blackmail, Financial Terrorism, they should all be arrested for treason, but since we don’t have a working doj,dhs, fec, cia,fbi….please feel free to add to this list…I am too tired and disgusted with all of them
Me, too, Selise. I’ve had two migraines lasting five days in two weeks’ time…a record.
Some are worse than others. We are hearing that some small/mid size banks are still lending, I would like to reward them for their smart choices in avoiding risky mortgage derivatives that permit them to continue to extend credit to those who present reasonable levels of risk.
Really? I just tuned in and haven’t been keeping track. Maybe they want to force the House republics to vote for this and that’s why the Democrats are banning together? Not sure. Susan Collins said she will vote for this in the Senate. We’ll see if she does.
Sander’s amendment can be read here:
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/…..?id=303941
Every House member ought to be sent it and asked why they don’t support such ideas.
Especially Pelosi and Hoyer.
Didn’t I hear DeMint also state that (now that we have bailed out Fannie and Freddie) that we would all be best served to PRIVATIZE them and let the free market system work its magic?
If things go as bad as I expect, you can find me here, using the free wifi, living on the cheap and communing with the coyotes.
If I’m retired, you’ll probably find me here, too.
Liberals can still fight this in the House. I don’t think the black caucus will support this. I don’t think Unions will.