Comments on: Obama Betrays the Middle Class: Votes for “Bail out the Rich Act” http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/ Firedoglake weblog Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: geshed http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1661145 geshed Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:32:43 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1661145 <p>I think it is unfair to say Obama betrayed the middle class<br /> in supporting this bill. I saw Warren Buffet on<br /> the Charlie Rose show. Now Mr. Buffet is<br /> one who advocates that the middle class<br /> should be paying less taxes. He gave a somewhat<br /> detailed argument that if you look at the payroll taxes that<br /> the non-investment class pays, that its disproportionate<br /> to what the rich like him pay. He sees no reason, by the<br /> way, why investment income should be taxed lower<br /> than worker’s wages, as it presently is. I have heard, and read<br /> him make this argument for the middle class and less<br /> than middle class, many times before. BUT<br /> as for the present economic condition of this country,<br /> Warren Buffet thinks that “the patient” “i.e. the<br /> economy) is “on the floor” in cardiac arrest, and<br /> needs the $700 billion, pretty much in the manner<br /> that Paulson first outlined (and that the Senate, with<br /> some modification) has adopted. And its needed<br /> in the next few days, to restore “confidence in<br /> the markets”, i.e. so banks will start lending to each<br /> other again; and so businesses can get the loans<br /> they need, etc, and so people will stop taking<br /> their money out of the banks etc etc.<br /> Warren Buffet, who as most people at least<br /> in America should know, is one of the world’s<br /> great investors (and the richest man in the world)<br /> thinks that the deal with AIG is a good<br /> investment for the U.S. citizen. He gave<br /> support for this opinion, but I can’t go into<br /> everything he said. . . I wish everyone<br /> could have seen Buffet on the Charlie Rose<br /> show last night or this morning. Come to think<br /> of it, it may be available on the PBS web site . . .<br /> It is the evening show of October 1, 2008, which<br /> was replayed today October 2nd.<br /> One last thought: If Warren Buffet is correct,<br /> that this $700 Billion is needed in order to<br /> avert a probable econonic disaster, then it<br /> is fair to say that if we are lucky enough to<br /> get Obama as president, that Obama will<br /> be able to do much, much less in the way<br /> of programs for the not-so-rich, if<br /> our economy goes bust because no bill<br /> was past.</p> I think it is unfair to say Obama betrayed the middle class
in supporting this bill. I saw Warren Buffet on
the Charlie Rose show. Now Mr. Buffet is
one who advocates that the middle class
should be paying less taxes. He gave a somewhat
detailed argument that if you look at the payroll taxes that
the non-investment class pays, that its disproportionate
to what the rich like him pay. He sees no reason, by the
way, why investment income should be taxed lower
than worker’s wages, as it presently is. I have heard, and read
him make this argument for the middle class and less
than middle class, many times before. BUT
as for the present economic condition of this country,
Warren Buffet thinks that “the patient” “i.e. the
economy) is “on the floor” in cardiac arrest, and
needs the $700 billion, pretty much in the manner
that Paulson first outlined (and that the Senate, with
some modification) has adopted. And its needed
in the next few days, to restore “confidence in
the markets”, i.e. so banks will start lending to each
other again; and so businesses can get the loans
they need, etc, and so people will stop taking
their money out of the banks etc etc.
Warren Buffet, who as most people at least
in America should know, is one of the world’s
great investors (and the richest man in the world)
thinks that the deal with AIG is a good
investment for the U.S. citizen. He gave
support for this opinion, but I can’t go into
everything he said. . . I wish everyone
could have seen Buffet on the Charlie Rose
show last night or this morning. Come to think
of it, it may be available on the PBS web site . . .
It is the evening show of October 1, 2008, which
was replayed today October 2nd.
One last thought: If Warren Buffet is correct,
that this $700 Billion is needed in order to
avert a probable econonic disaster, then it
is fair to say that if we are lucky enough to
get Obama as president, that Obama will
be able to do much, much less in the way
of programs for the not-so-rich, if
our economy goes bust because no bill
was past.

]]> By: garak http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660901 garak Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:38:24 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660901 <p>I’m with gloria; Obama did not put us in this situation. He supported the last compromise bill, which was for all its shortcomings a DECENT plan (that Hillary Clinton also supported) to keep the economy going until after the election. But of course, thanks to the know-nothingism of the extreme left and extreme right (and I consider myself very liberal), it failed. Now the Senate has passed a WORSE plan with “sweeteners” for Republicans. Thanks, progressives!</p> I’m with gloria; Obama did not put us in this situation. He supported the last compromise bill, which was for all its shortcomings a DECENT plan (that Hillary Clinton also supported) to keep the economy going until after the election. But of course, thanks to the know-nothingism of the extreme left and extreme right (and I consider myself very liberal), it failed. Now the Senate has passed a WORSE plan with “sweeteners” for Republicans. Thanks, progressives!

]]> By: garak http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660896 garak Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:35:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660896 <p>Protest votes got George W. Bush elected; try to rethink that.</p> <p>Cast your vote as if everyone in America will vote the way you do.</p> Protest votes got George W. Bush elected; try to rethink that.

Cast your vote as if everyone in America will vote the way you do.

]]> By: Pixelmarx http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660699 Pixelmarx Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:31:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660699 <p>Look, who do you work for? Chances are you work for the rich. That’s the way it goes. People who have money, spend money. Obama isn’t an idiot. In fact I’m willing to bet $100 that he’s smarter than you, and he understands first, that a while this isn’t a bailout, it’s not necessarily a great deal for tax payers, and therefore, it’s important that, while the help to Wall Street is necessary, it also has to have some restrictions. Those are in the bill. The roll over government is to create a stable society. Sure, if you want upheaval, mass layoffs, a stagnant economy, and the rising crime that comes with all those things, then I’m sure you’d like to see economic collapse. However if you’re a centrist Democrat that optimistically believes in the future of America and positive change, then you likely want to see America stable, with people working. I’m surprised at all the liberals who are siding up with the Right, thinking this is a “bailout” where free money is being handed to the rich. Learn about the scenario, take some classes in economics, get your law degree from Harvard and gather your 20 best economic advisers and then start giving advice to Obama.</p> <p>Thank you.</p> Look, who do you work for? Chances are you work for the rich. That’s the way it goes. People who have money, spend money. Obama isn’t an idiot. In fact I’m willing to bet $100 that he’s smarter than you, and he understands first, that a while this isn’t a bailout, it’s not necessarily a great deal for tax payers, and therefore, it’s important that, while the help to Wall Street is necessary, it also has to have some restrictions. Those are in the bill. The roll over government is to create a stable society. Sure, if you want upheaval, mass layoffs, a stagnant economy, and the rising crime that comes with all those things, then I’m sure you’d like to see economic collapse. However if you’re a centrist Democrat that optimistically believes in the future of America and positive change, then you likely want to see America stable, with people working. I’m surprised at all the liberals who are siding up with the Right, thinking this is a “bailout” where free money is being handed to the rich. Learn about the scenario, take some classes in economics, get your law degree from Harvard and gather your 20 best economic advisers and then start giving advice to Obama.

Thank you.

]]> By: ekunin http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660500 ekunin Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:54:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660500 <p>I’m not sure Obama had a choice. He wants to get elected and the guys he’s up against are mean enough to crash the market to make their point. You have credit him for some brains to have gotten where he is. How would the people who don’t want the bailout vote were the crash to come between now and November with Obama voting “No” and the Repubs pointing their fingers at him? Limbaugh blames Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae on the Dems and says those two failures are the problem. He doesn’t mention Lehman Bros, etc. etc. and the deregulation which was clearly a Repub phenomenon. Obama’s doing well under the circumstances. Ironically, he’s our only hope.</p> I’m not sure Obama had a choice. He wants to get elected and the guys he’s up against are mean enough to crash the market to make their point. You have credit him for some brains to have gotten where he is. How would the people who don’t want the bailout vote were the crash to come between now and November with Obama voting “No” and the Repubs pointing their fingers at him? Limbaugh blames Freddie Mack and Fannie Mae on the Dems and says those two failures are the problem. He doesn’t mention Lehman Bros, etc. etc. and the deregulation which was clearly a Repub phenomenon. Obama’s doing well under the circumstances. Ironically, he’s our only hope.

]]> By: klynn http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660484 klynn Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:35:01 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660484 <p>Ian,</p> <p>I understand your take on this post. I would have preferred a post about what we need to do to get a voice on changes for the House vote.</p> Ian,

I understand your take on this post. I would have preferred a post about what we need to do to get a voice on changes for the House vote.

]]> By: Scrappy http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660391 Scrappy Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:55:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660391 <p>Fair enough. It definitely, definitely is extortion. I just don’t know politically how to navigate a more successful resolution in light of the risks. I would think a failure to cooperate and a subsequent monetary collapse could cost the White House, which is why the bill now looks as it does.</p> Fair enough. It definitely, definitely is extortion. I just don’t know politically how to navigate a more successful resolution in light of the risks. I would think a failure to cooperate and a subsequent monetary collapse could cost the White House, which is why the bill now looks as it does.

]]> By: newtonusr http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660372 newtonusr Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:40:21 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660372 <p>That would be correct.<br /> I hate the bill, and am free to dispise its authors and their motives. Rarely do we know what they have in mind, but here’s a clue <a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/53339.html" rel="nofollow">- some of the terms of the bill.</a></p> <p>This is extortion, pure and simple.</p> That would be correct.
I hate the bill, and am free to dispise its authors and their motives. Rarely do we know what they have in mind, but here’s a clue - some of the terms of the bill.

This is extortion, pure and simple.

]]> By: Scrappy http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660369 Scrappy Thu, 02 Oct 2008 06:36:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660369 <p>Tax cut, though I’m guessing it was a rhetorical question. I’m not sure what your point is, though. I’m not trying to champion the bill. It generally stinks. But the continuous liquidity injections around the world and the standstill in the interbank market are not illusions conjured up by the GOP to squeeze out concessions. I hope. Who knows when it comes to Baron Von Moneypants.</p> Tax cut, though I’m guessing it was a rhetorical question. I’m not sure what your point is, though. I’m not trying to champion the bill. It generally stinks. But the continuous liquidity injections around the world and the standstill in the interbank market are not illusions conjured up by the GOP to squeeze out concessions. I hope. Who knows when it comes to Baron Von Moneypants.

]]> By: rootless http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660324 rootless Thu, 02 Oct 2008 05:57:26 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/01/obama-betrays-the-middle-class-votes-for-bail-out-the-rich-act/#comment-1660324 <p>I can’t think of any way to sugar coat this, I’m afraid. Obama is not a leftist candidate. He never claimed to be a leftist candidate. None of his supporters portrayed him as a leftist candidate. There was one leftist candidate in the primaries and he (Kucinich) got nearly no support. Many people who are on the left supported and support Obama as a competent and decent middle of the roader who has the best chance of beating the Republican neo-fascist candidates.Yet people who are hostile to Obama’s candidacy keep jumping up and down and screaming that some action of his reveals him to be <i>not a leftist candidate</i>. Jesus, get another shtick. Nobody in their right minds would ever have placed Obama to the the left of Barney Frank, and Frank is a vociferous supporter of this stupid bill. </p> <p>How about some reality here?</p> I can’t think of any way to sugar coat this, I’m afraid. Obama is not a leftist candidate. He never claimed to be a leftist candidate. None of his supporters portrayed him as a leftist candidate. There was one leftist candidate in the primaries and he (Kucinich) got nearly no support. Many people who are on the left supported and support Obama as a competent and decent middle of the roader who has the best chance of beating the Republican neo-fascist candidates.Yet people who are hostile to Obama’s candidacy keep jumping up and down and screaming that some action of his reveals him to be not a leftist candidate. Jesus, get another shtick. Nobody in their right minds would ever have placed Obama to the the left of Barney Frank, and Frank is a vociferous supporter of this stupid bill.

How about some reality here?

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