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McCain swung and missed so badly that Obama wants a turn at bat now:
For the rest of today and as long as it takes, I will continue to reach out to leaders in both parties and do whatever I can to help pass a rescue plan. To the Democrats and Republicans who opposed this plan yesterday, I say – step up to the plate and do what’s right for this country.
Obama is remarkably comfortable with the nigh-inconceivable $700 billion figure that Paulson asked for, although he does talk up oversight, homeowner relief, restricting wealthfare, and somehow, somehow trying to recoup that ginormous* "investment."
Here’s what I don’t get. Even if we forget about the political impact of backing a hugely expensive bailout plan of dubious popularity, what about the governance impact?
If Senator Obama somehow gets this plan passed (probably by watering down or eliminating its redeeming qualities), then President Obama will have his hands tied from the day he takes office. No money for middle class tax cuts, healthcare reform, alternative energy, infrastructure repair, or anything else that costs money. The Republicans will wave the flag of Fiscal Responsibility, the Blue Dogs will happily join them, and nothing constructive will get done.
Obama will be left holding Dubya’s bag, and he’ll be ridiculed as a "do-nothing" president who talked big about Change and couldn’t deliver it. All because he had to give the Worst President Ever $700 billion of our money to fix the economy like he fixed Iraq.
(Speaking of Iraq, that might be the only positive outcome of the bailout: President Obama would have one hell of an incentive to get us out of that bottomless pit of Fail.)
I absolutely agree that we need to do something. I just don’t believe that buying up $700 billion worth of crap from imprudent scoundrels is the way to go.
*"Ginormous" is a venerable and respected economics term. Economists still argue over whether it was coined by Malthus or Adam Smith.
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Another one!
Digg It Eli
Well. What you see is what you’ll get. I am disappointed in Obama. I expected better of him. I really doubt that he’d have opposed the Iraq AUMF. I really do. I was hoping he’d be different. So much for hope. He’s better than McCain. But that’s not much to get excited about.
I swear, I think that this whole bailout bill is an election trap to put Obama in a corner. I think the House Pukes went against the first bill, and now the bill that will be presented tomorrow will contain pork. This puts McCain in a perfect position to vote No.
Obama must vote no on the bill with the added pork or they will hang this whole thing around his neck, and McCain will come out smelling like a rose.
The whole thing stinks from start to finish.
He needs to get off this bi-partisan/post-partisan meme. It’s very simply put: The other party got us in this mess. Give them an oar spot or a hand on the tiller on the next boat?
I think not. They need to be debunked, thrown out, forever discredited.
But that’s not what he’s going to do.
i think we must consider the possibility that this is what obama wants. that all the stuff he’s been saying to get elected is not stuff he really wants to do.
obama is listening to his corporate sponsors once again
I lost faith in him over fisa and have only recently gotten back on board
if he pushes this through it will be the last straw for me
Obama was iffy before he started running for president, but I pretty much gave up all hope of him showing any kind of leadership or steel when he went along with FISA. That was the last straw for me, but he’s still hundreds of times better than the alternative.
I don’t ever blame the republicans for anything. They are great people and would never leave a complete mess for the next president to handle. No way! They always have the people of America in their hearts!
oh, and this is just asking for a rightwing backlash. a democratic president who, during a recession, supporting bailouts for wallstreet and apologies, we can’t afford its, for the rest of us. can you imagine how hated the party will be?
and he’ll be ridiculed…
no way around that anyway, so long as there are Republicans in the world.
Come on, Rapture!
Hiya Eli!
Then what the hell does “the last straw” mean. Vote for him but keep hammering him so other people won’t. He is obviously not going to do what you want him to do on this.
Yep, it’s one of those examples where the right thing to do and the politically smart thing to do are the same… and the Democrats still want to do the opposite.
Hiya, jayt!
I think we should send Mitch McConnell some love. He needs us right now:
Washington Office
361-A Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202) 224-2541
Fax: (202) 224-2499
Let’s tell Mitch McConnell we love him to death and thank him for not being Barack Obama who wants to ruin this country to the depths of hell! He is real leadership. *wiping tears from my eyes & straightening my US flag pin*
Your right, if Obama buys this bag of bullshit he will own it despite the fact that George created it. The Democrats must put forward their own plan with strong regulation on banking and finance. Directly buying and refinancing home mortgages at a fair price for 6% over a 45 year non salable mortage with a 50% goverment stake in any profit at sale. 200 billion in a public infrastructure renovation. 100% rebate for home owners who put on solar collectors. 100% reimbursement to States for building high volume high tech transmission lines. A tax rebate up to the cost of the car for getting a plug in electric car. etc. etc.
If we as ordinary democrats can see these outlines of a true recovery plan, why cant the politicians that we hire see them.
I hope Obama wins but by god I intend to keep his feet to the fire to be the President of Change. The bail out is just more of the same Bush-McCain crap.
It means I no longer have any expectation that Obama will go out of his way to do the right thing. I’d love to be proven wrong, but that’s my default assumption. I still want to see him elected, because, again, McCain is far worse.
Raven- I don’t think that was Eli’s intention. We are talking among friends here at FDL, are who venting about Obama
Of course, if this passes, then he has an excuse not to be the President Of Change.
“Gee, I really *wanted* to give you all healthcare, but goshdarnit, there’s just no money for it.”
And perris said “if he pushes this through it will be the last straw for me”. So, the last straw doesn’t really MEAN the last straw.
It might not be his, or other folks intention, but that doesn’t mean it’s not the case,
The bail out is just more of the same Bush-McCain crap.
But now with pork gravy!
Yummm…
So what’s the alternative, just give him a pass on everything?
i’d love a list. because right now, i don’t see it.
and that’s saying a lot because i think mccain is off the chart bad.
Let’s ruin the pro-Obama momentum some more by giving $1,000 to John McCain’s campaign:
https://secure.donationreport.com/donation.html?key=3WIDSBXYA3PZ
He will love us for it! He could use the money too. We’re gonna win in November!
Well, would you rather coast off the cliff, or floor the accelerator?
good night
Selise, what I’m thinking right now is two words-
Supreme Court.
i’m not planning to vote for him – lying about fisa was the last straw for me… although i’ve been hoping to find a reason to change my mind. because i really, really wanted to vote for obama. but there’s got to be some reason to – and not just because he’s got a D after his name.
I hammer him here at the lake where we are all on the same page
on other boards, instead of defending him I have to keep my mouth shut because I have no faith in what he will or will not do.
that’s what I mean
I took a hiatus from defending him over fisa, I got over it and began campaigning on his behalf
that won’t happen again if he pushes a bad bill through
you have to really understand the history that naomi klein was writing about in her book, THE SHOCK DOCTRINE.
obama is another creature of the global gangsters[rockefellers, the bilderbergers] who will do anything to seize the entirety of this planet. never forget, obama, in all his autobiographical efforts, as eliminated his columbia years. years where he was zbig’s acolyte. and zbig is the cardinal mazarin[or is it richelieu?] to don david.
this election is as notional a contest as bush v gore, bush v kerry.
it is akin to the enron energy trading desk, two finger puppets on the same hand. at the end of the contest only mr hand wins. and after this illusory contest, the velvet glove[the puppets] will be pulled off. and the chain mail beneath will be finally, indelibly revealed.
some years ago, the milton friedman[the chicago boy] doctrine was used to destroy argentina, chile, bolivia, etc ad infinitum. it should never be forgotten that the university of chicago was a creation of the rockefellers.
it should also never be forgotten that the us presidency has been held by rockefeller courtiers[lackeys] since the end of ww2.
this is an election where the electorate should stay at home. refusing to vote for the same interests that have controlled their lives for the last 60+ years.
no voting.
my guess is that imaginary vote totals would still be proferred to the benighted populace.
If they put that quarter percent tax on all stock transactions to finance it, and reform the bankruptcy bill, I’m OK with it.
That’s my biggest reason. Supremes are forever.
Well, we could be focusing on the fact that it’s George Bush’s policies and zero oversight during the years between 2002-2006 where the republics did nothing, and then blocked any kind of reform or change by the Democrats in the Senate by the republics.
Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Let’s give $2,000 to the McCain campaign instead! A much better idea. Blaming Barack for gaming the system so he’ll only serve one term because he’s scared to have two terms is also a great idea!
Give to John the Giant Patriot & America Lover, here:
https://secure.donationreport.com/donation.html?key=3WIDSBXYA3PZ
You might receive a nice thank you note from Sarah too. ;-)
Let me suggest that this has to do with Obama needing/wanting/supporting established Dem ‘leadership’. For instance, when they were all called in and had the ’shit scared out of them’ why was the reaction acceptance of a Bush Admin proposal instead of .’ok, thanks for the notification, we’ll take care of this’. In other words, the Dems are somehow afraid to take leadership/initiative on ‘tough issues’ and what that says is they are bereft of moral ethics(which is why there are things like ‘blue dogs’ and ‘red states’).
The deal here is that the people don’t want to give wall street hundreds of billions because of their greedy dumb behavior. That behavior has “apparently” frozen credit which seems to be trickling down to the innocenti who can run their little mom and pops because they can’t make payroll. So america is grinding to a hault.
Now why do we need to give this to the cash to the guys who screwed up or buy their useless junk? Why doesn’t the gove just set up a new bank for those who need credit for their payrolls … whatever and tell Wall street to feck themselves and work out there gambling debts and clean up their act. And to help them along the feds will pass some laws regulating their behavior in the future… or a Nancy says, ” the party’s over”.
If Obi wants to lead America out of the mess he needs to propose eco stim packages, raise the min wage, get some job creation going, tax the wealthy to recover what was stolen in the past few decades and make let the gov guaranty credit until the NEW banking system is in place.
Those guys on Wall Street can go for job re training programs as most of their trading practices of the past will be unlawful,
Sure. If it’s structured so that it doesn’t cost us $700 billion and make it impossible to do anything else, I’m on board with it. Even if it doesn’t work, at least we haven’t put ourselves in a giant budget crater.
Denis is up on Rachel and doing what I said… hahahha
I am going to bed, I know I will wake up to another obama sellout
see all later
Here’s a poster of our new president for everyone to download and put on their office walls:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi…..0517200915!John_McCain_official_photo_portrait.JPG
We love him!
I missed it, what did you say?
maybe thousands of times better – think of the moderate Supreme Court Justice(s) he might appoint!
On the Shock Doctrine Bailout and Payday, Dennis Kucinich: “This plan is immoral. This plan is a disgrace…It will cost every American $6900 dollars.”
at this moment, i don’t see obama going any slower over the cliff – and i see him utterly destroying the democratic brand while he’s at it.
and that’s not an issue for me just because they are my “team.”
if something even worse happens to the economy – if we end up in a real depression, i want the american public to be able to support a progressive democratic set of policies to get us out of it and not some rightwing anti-immigrant scapegoating of non-whites.
if obama ties himself and the democratic party to failed and failing economic policies of wall street – what do you think will happen if a depression comes?
seriously. please let’s think this one through for longer than the next year or even the next 4.
This:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…../24/digby/
is looking more and more prescient.
Cass lets-not-criminalze-politics Sunstein?
Or Cass let-bygones-be-bygones Sustein?
We have a situation where banks are not lending to other banks because they don’t trust their books. It’s way beyond a liquidity crisis so just bailing out homeowners will not work. The repubs want to change an accounting rule that will allow less transperancy which would be devistating to our children. If Obama keeps his four points in the final bill, he should fight for it. Our credit markets are in crisis and it will trickle down quickly.
i remember the lecture obama gave us about the roberts vote. not just because of the content of the lecture – but also because it was the only topic he thought important enough to communicate directly with us on.
Tone, Truth, and the Democratic Party
and obama was wrong that time too.
If it weren’t for the Supreme Court teetering on the brink of a Scalia/Thomas majority, I might consider that letting the GOP lie in their own bed of failure could have some benefits. But I just don’t think we can afford it.
I’m watching Taxi to the Dark Side right now.
Human beings are being tortured and killed because of Republicans having been in power for eight years.
I’ll be good and goddamned if I will pass up any opportunity to make sure that those fuckers are *never* left in charge again.
If Obama doesn’t live up to my hopes – so be it.
John McCain is not an honorable man – not now, not ever, so far as I can tell. I honestly don’t think he’d ever survive four years in the White House. Doesn’t mean he won’t live long enough to start more wars though.
Sarah shit-for-brains is gonna get us out of war? Stand up for humane treatment of prisoners?
Please – get your heads outta your asses.
For days I have been say the solution to for the government to guaranty mortgages and assist the people not the traders of wall street. The “buy in” is immoral. We, the people, do not want to have equity in Wall Street or own their toxic waste.
It gives Obama a perfect excuse to renege on all of his campaign rhetoric and do the “Damn, I really wish I could reform Health Care and all those other good things we talked about but there are no funds due to the debt.”
After the IMF audit is completed in 2010 we are in a world of shit. “When the final report on the risks of the US financial system is released in 2010 — and it is likely to cause a stir internationally — only one of the people in positions of responsibility today will still be in office: Ben Bernanke.”
I see a World Bank IMF austerity plan in our future, ala Argentina, Brazil or Thailand, the list is long and filled with pain. See “The Shock Doctrine” for the depressing details.
Selise, You did not like Obama before the primary, during the primary or after the primary.
thank you. exactly.
cass sunstein? wtf would i vote for anyone for to get that kind of supreme court pick from?
see roberts. see sunstein.
Maybe the Senate knows he’ll vote against this bill and is bringing up for a vote to corner him? Oh probably! Democrats are very good at going after their own, rather than the republicans. Oh, but we’ll rejoice now won’t we! Spit.
I resemble that.
Voting for a Roberts, heinous as it may be, is still not the same as nominating one.
He’s very cautious, just like FDR was, and for the same reason. He’s been told that the credit squeeze is real, that it can have devastating effects, and that something has to be done about it pronto. He doesn’t have the luxury of taking a course in advanced financial economics. He’s at least got Larry Summers and Bob Rubin on his team, and they know the score. We also don’t know what kind of pressure the richest people in the world are putting on him at this point.
Look, even Krugman accepted the bail-out bad as it was, because he thinks it’s preferable to a complete economic implosion. We don’t know what’s going to happen, but it is prudent to put a heavier weight on the downside risk than on the upside risk.
Personally, I would like to see an aggressive Democratic proposal that smokes the Republiks out from under their rocks. Get those maggots into the light for the nation to see. That apparently isn’t Obama’s style, but we don’t know. He can still surprise us. Now that he’s got a growing lead, he isn’t as vulnerable to rethug blackmail as he was. If I were him, I’d stall and let the other part of our party take the lead. As to McInsane, everything he does blows up in his face. Throw him an anvil!
that is true. i never liked obama. but i did plan on voting for him. that is what changed.
as the good doctor dean said… when i get new information, i reconsider. what do you do?
What other way can we ruin the Obamentum right now? I’m sure we can come up with lots of ideas! I have ton in my head right now. I would rather use them against Johnny McTeleprompter, but then I would be the most unpopular girl in the room. Sad. :-(
Collectin’ topknots? Was refilling music library from utoobz.
Main Street is being blackmailed by the banks (the big three) tightening credit.
I say we do a nationwide strike and demand that we get the crooks on wall street perp marched
obama voted against roberts. it’s his argument about why it was a good think for others to vote for roberts that i objected to.
Obama’s economic advisers are neoliberal Chicago School business friendly types. The Establishment wants this incredilby expensive boondoggle, and his economic advisers come from that Establishment.
yep. shock therapy comes home.
almost makes a karmic kind of sense – since it was a democratic president (clinton) who pushed in on so many other countries.
Ah, okay. That sounds in character.
We, the people, do not want to have equity in Wall Street or own their toxic waste.
Teachers, nurses, policeman, everybody with a pension plan or an IRA or a 401K has equity in Wall St.
***gentle reminder***
sock puppetry will result in your comment being moderated
kay, he’s doing it to himself, I am not sheep, i don’t fall in line just because he has a d
he has to come through, we are counting on him…don’t get the wrong idea kay, I am voting for him but he really knows how to take the wind out of my sail
he is doing it to himself, I am not sheep to follow a pied piper
Not with me you wouldn’t. Together or we all hang separately……
no need.
obama has that one covered.
… his pulling of the bankruptcy provisions from the bailout was bad enough. but this? wow.
Goodgawd people, may I puleeze elbow in here? Thanks so much.
/S
Am I the sock puppet on here or am I the lefty troll on the lefty blog tonight? LOL I honestly don’t know.
We have all been saying that Obi is not a progressive, or if he is one he is hiding it under some rhetotric.
His power now is not as great as it would be when elected. Then he may rise to the occasion. But he record would not indicate he will do much. But he may be forced to because the shit is getting deeper and deeper and republican fixes ain’t gonna work and he’ll have to get serious and listen to some adults instead of the investor class worried about their millions.
I say nationalize all the big banks and cancel all the paper they have out there. Let’s start again…
we’ve been so focused on mcsame/palin i wonder if we really even know our own candidates.
i’d feel much better if we would give them the same kind of scrutiny that we give the opposition.
ah, i believe I was right on board with you, from the very first I said we need to get these loans back down to the lowest percentage they bought into
we havve been on the same page, I am going to bed, more later
Hi Eli,
It’s as if the Republicans have pushed Obama’s car into the garage and closed the door, now he’s fumbling for the key in the ignition. He seemed like such a bright guy, go figure.
They need to get their money out of the market and buy treasuries… and savings bonds. How bout that?
Yes, if we even had 40 Democratic Senators, they could at least filibuster a bad Supreme Court choice but unfortunately we have never hit that threshold . . .
Obama is better than McCain so I will vote for him but after the election if he betrays us Canada, Ireland or Belize! Why I want to live in a country with rights, a good economy and one where English is spoken.
(I failed Spanish in highschool)
And I don’t know why so many people here are assuming that Obama *wants* to renege on his promises and is just looking for an excuse to do so. An excess of cynicism after 8 years of Bush?
I think I have a pretty good feel for Obama, my threshold of what I can live with is just higher than yours. And, obviously, lower than others’.
Not a criticism, just a statement of fact.
He is? I’m not seeing it that way, but those with the power apparently do which is dangerous to his campaign, but some here don’t seem to care. So, let’s support Johnny! He would love it.
I’m telling you…nothing is worse then to be on a high with our Democratic candidate when out of the blue the lefties start bashing him and it kills the whole momentum. But hey! We Democrats are very good at losing elections and turning the voters off for this very reason (bashing our candidate instead of leaving it to the WATBs on the right side of the aisle). We constantly give them (the right wingers) FODDER to go after him with. Don’t be surprised if the trolls who lurk here will go back to their mold-smelling blogs to share what we’ve said.
The stock market is a casino. People who own shares are putting their money in a casino. Remember when the pukes wanted to put your SS trust fund in the market? We would have lost a few trillion by now. Not a good idea. I suggest you get you 401 K and retirement investment and buy gov savings bonds.
That was a direct insult! After all the criminality that has transpired, most especially the violations of international law. The world will be watching to see what we do about those people. As for the domestic crime, I, like so many of us, have waited a long time, expecting a modicum of justice. I think our actions, or inaction on these matters will define us as a Country for all time.
What has been perpetrated upon us in the last eight years has not been “politics”, not by any stretch of the imagination. Failure to thoroughly and properly investigate the crimes we all know have been brazenly commited will well and truly piss me off. Even worse, I mean!
Oh no. See all Facebook pictures of Sarah (877). It is from Reddit so I do not vouch for it.
Honestly, I have no idea if that’s actually his plan. But I’m pretty sure it would be the outcome.
Hi Selise- I am no great Obama supporter or admirer. And, I pretty much support the idea that “this has got to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.” But, I’m not sure that I am willing to risk the “whole lot worse” in this case. Because I probably won’t live long enough to see the “gets better”. Maybe that doesn’t matter in the long run.
The popular vote doesn’t matter. The state by state totals for the electoral college does. I happen to be in GA, where the contest will be close. You, irrc, are in MA. I admit that I haven’t looked at the polling there Obama/ McCain, but I’d guess that Obama is pretty safe in MA. Not so in GA.
I certainly would never insult your intelligence or your take on things- you always hold our feet to the fire here at FDL, and that is much appreciated.
But, for information only, is it possible that your take on things in influenced by living in what I assume is an “Obama safe” state. I really doubt that proposition of mine. But, I do know that it will influence my vote. I guess I’m not quite the “change only comes when things get way worse” person I thought I was. Because, I will vote for Obama.
I’ve been cynical regarding politics for over 30 years, still wouldn’t mind being pleasantly surprised, though.
I confronted him with it at Netroots Nation and he looked at me like I was nuts. Audience clapped at my Q though.
Let’s spread the rumor that Barack wants to turn America into the next Saudi Arabia because he’s going to back this bill and then will be the CEO of the World! Spit.
It’ll cause the market to totally crash, we’ll be in a depression, and end up spending the money funding the PBGC as well as the FDIC.
sadly though, the republicans have – and they probably still will have enough to block any halfway decent choice obama might, in my dreams, nominate.
so, of course, he will have to nominate someone like roberts to get his choice approved. or at least that is the excuse he will have in his pocket if he cares to use it.
I will vote for him but my expectations are not high. His rhetoric and story are compelling, but he needs to get at the con to see where he can take this ship of state. We’re way off course and we need some serious skill to get America back to freedom and justice for all.
Here is my latest suggestion of how to focus on the problems and what might be done to fix things in a simple way the public and legislators can grasp.
===================
Bad Mortgages
a) ARMs — ban rate increases of more than 3% per year
b) upside-down — ban foreclosures, require refinancing via HOPE, etc.
c) Pressure mortgage holders and “home owners” to refinance to fixed-rates
Credit Crunch
Pump money via the Fed to relieve it the traditional way and
if it appeals to Congress they can tax Wall Street to get the
money, as though it were the giant insurance company backstop
to each of it’s ‘too big to fail’ firms or credit crunches
such as the one we’re in.
Regulation
Do it everywhere it’s screwed up! But, don’t overdo.
Fraud
Send the FBI after all fraud and uncover the roots of this garbage.
If Dems are in office in a few months there will be people who really
want to get into this.
========================
This is as simple as I can get it.
fair enough. i can support that because you’re not trying to tell me things that make no sense in order to justify your support. i’m not saying this is an easy choice for me and i can still see how others would come down on the other side of the question.
crash the market… it’s bogus.
Tell me why we need a stock market again?
Well, if you’re expecting the same from McCain as Obama, then why not vote for McCain and keep the mess in the laps of the republic party? Then none of us would have to worry about Barack hating America like you think he’s gonna!
See? It’s all very simple. ;-)
OT
Olbermann reference to ET, quotes the LA Times.
20 seconds
Hilarious.
ding ding ding
sweet.. too bad he didn’t mention his name :(
I would never vote for any republican. evah
Rachel is saying Sarah is joe sixpack but she has her own plane. Why do rich Stupid GOPers all claim their stupidity is a result of their blue collarism?
Take apart and rebuild a car engine and then tell me you are dumb! I took 2 semsters of autoshop and I can barely change oil or wrap a can around a broken exhaust pipe.
Bush, McCain, Sarah they chose to be politicians its their job to know the issues. Their failure is like a mechanic not knowing where to stick a sparkplug!
two of the main people who pushed for the end of glass steagall?
personally, i’d rather see them no where near a “solution” to the crisis. give me a stiglitz instead.
The problems are complicated and it’s hard to find a good or simple solution and there is opposition from various groups of Republicans. I think Obama, and most other politicians, will grab the first lifeboat that looks reasonably safe.
Of course, John McCain will “suspend his campaign”, stand up in the boat like George Washington and claim to have built the boat, planted the flag, and led the way to shore.
John McCain isn’t a leader and I’d rather trust someone like Obama who is honest about not having all the answers, but wants to work together with people who might.
John McCain can’t be trusted.
(throws hands up in the air)
I’ve encountered that story in multiple places, had no idea ET was the source.
u can do better? then run yerself next time.
acting like starving rats in the bottom of a barrel….
count me out. will spring for discussion. don’t have time for suicide. besides, its’ counterproductive… speaking for myself, of course.
my bad.
instead of complaining about what obama and the dems are doing… i have a proposal:
how do we put the pressure on to push back on what they are doing?
And, one further general comment. The title of Eli’s post just registered with me but I will leave out the “why” and abbreviate it to “does Obama want to be a one-term president?”
Yep, sure looks like it to me, the way he is going.
That’s the hard part. They’re apparently getting *overwhelming* opposition from constituents, and they Just. Don’t. Care.
He’s not John McCain.
He’s not Republican.
He’s smart.
He works well with others.
He wants to make things better for everybody.
What more do you need?
I am not a capitalist. I do not believe in owning shares. Sorry.
yeap – music professor at the university up there — his blog, http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/ is on my must read daily list
Joseph Stiglitz is the man!
CQ Politics has more details on the Senate vote tomorrow. It will take 60 votes to amend the bill and 60 to pass it. That means there will have to be significant Republican participation to pass it, just like in the House. I do like this bit:
Go Bernie!
I’m the opposite. I’ll vote for him because my expectations are high. I’m hoping that a dem pres and a dem congress can do wonders. Of course, we have to worry about exactly what state we’ll be in come January.
apologies for rant to any who began talking in terms that were productive and not just cutting off our legs because they were there at the wrong time.
been a long day….
why should they? all they need us for now is our votes. and they apparently have them no matter what they do (that’s not directed at you, just a general comment).
Stiglitz has a checkered background. Changed his stripes pretty late in life. Was verrrry establishment & filled with hubris during the Clinton years.
jim – the senate isn’t even going to post their bill the night before the vote? jeeze, the house gave us – what – 18 hours?
Why a voice vote, do you think?
at this point, i’d vote for a poodle (preferably Kobe) for dog-catcher, if he were D.
uGOtAPROBLUMwidDAT?!!!!
Take it up with the next administration.
That is the Catch-22. However, unlike the presidential race, I would be perfectly willing to let some of the faithless Dem congresscritters lose, just to send a message. And as long as we didn’t lose chamber majorities, we’d never even notice they were gone.
Of course, it’s not exactly up to me.
Sometimes one must be pragmatic, but damn it gets tiresome! We’ve been fighting from the inside for a three generations and progress has been painfully slow. But-we are finally starting to see progress on the local level. Though I am forced to admit that it might be because the old timers are simply dying off. It’s a terrible thing to say, but it is true.
Thanks, I just bookmarked it. Be interesting to see if Murlene Wilkes changing her Troopergate story leads anywhere.
details please? still pretty arrogant, not that it bothers me. seems to actually think democracy (with an informed public and everything) is good and we need more of it.
but econ-wise, what did he do that i should know about?
Selise, I was not a Kerry supporter but I was concerned about the direction that our country was heading in. I did everything that I could do after the nomination to help get him elected. Between Hillary and Obama I liked Obama because of his foreign policy views. The idea that Sarah Palin could be president nauseates me. I certainly did not mean to be flippant. I just tire of your continuous anti-Obama rants.
so… from an old timer… fight till u tip over….
Sounds like a great idea.
how do you figure out which ones they are? i used to think pelosi was pretty good (boy was i wrong on that).
newt! thanks for that youtube!
I just sent the info to ET via email.
Yep, for all of you who haven’t been reading FDL for a long long time, we know exactly who this music teacher is! Long time great contributor at FDL, aka Ed*ward Teller, aka Edward Teller, aka Philip Munger.
The only way may cynicism has manifested itself is that I haven’t (yet)donated to Obama. Been burned too many times. And if John Edwards wants to return all my cash, I’d be glad to give him my address.
Unfortunately, Rahm isn’t up for reelection until 2010 and I don’t sense any enthusiasm in his district to depose him. Still, hope springs eternal. Maybe he’ll be indicted before then. :)
There’s principled opposition which is what I think we are talking about-making the bailout pay for itself by taxing the rich, & relieving homeowners in distress while we’re at it.
But you have to consider that a lot of the opposition is know-nothing opposition from the right. The same kind of people who hate seeing medical care going to illegal aliens in the ER, because they are angry about their money going to someone who doesn’t deserve it. Never mind that it could avert a worse situation.
Bush & Paulson offered up their “pile of crap with a marshmallow on top” (to quote a Republican!).
The Congressional approach of “seriously” considering the Bush-Paulson plan included many improvements, but has ended in it’s defeat. No big surprise there.
Now, we look at alternatives, both conceptual and in details. There are many details and many people will be heard.
Why curse Obama for going along with the Congressional Dem plan? He’s hardly in the legislative process and it’s hard to imagine him really devoting much attention to this and leading the charge. Clearly he’s going to give such guidance as he can and go with the majority Dem view.
At least he didn’t jump into the crowd and claim to be leading the way just before running back out.
then we’re even.
Anyone know why the Sanders amendment is a voice vote? Does that help or hinder its passage?
Being opposed to Obama surely gets a lot of attention.
Well, since it’s pretty much a hypothetical, I haven’t given it a whole lot of thought. I would prioritize both the worst of the worst, and the the Blue Dogs in blue districts. Unfortunately, our Senate margin is too narrow at the moment, but if we had a cushion I wouldn’t mind losing DiFi, Reid, Pryor, and the Nelsons for a start.
DiFi’s first on my list because she has absolutely no political need to be a sellout.
because it looks like he’s leading them into this. for example, as i heard this morning on democracy now! the D caucus was told that obama didn’t want the bankruptcy provisions in the bailout so they were pulled.
well then, isn’t that nice?!
ratfood- the source of the “Murlene Wilkes changing her story” is Jason Leopold. I made a comment on Phil’s blog, following up on some before. Essence was, “high level of caution advised”. Jason has a pretty spotty record as to truthiness and truthfulness, and thus I would treat this “information” with extreme caution.
Yeah, I would love to get rid of a whole bunch of Dem “leadership”: Rahm, Steny, Reid, Pelosi.
(cough) ;)
why not attack what i say (my arguments or evidence) instead of implying i’m motivated by a desire for attention?
astute lil cherub, u is.
Good evening, all.
Faint praise there, Eli.
Let’s face reality. Few here may pretend to any genuine ‘enthusiasm’given that the Political Class seems intent upon ‘rescuing’ the Ruling Class.
At the very least, WE have the ears of precious few of the Political Class who evidence either courage or an genuine ‘grasp’ of what things look like from any place but on ‘high’.
Regardless, we may all be fairly certain that whatever happens, the two ‘upper’ classes will suffer far fewer of the “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune” than the rest may expect.
Of late, people with whom I speak present a very changed and sober demeanor regarding what is broadly seen as a huge fraud, blatantly thumbing its nose at the fate of MOST of the people. People are NOT sanguine (and the Political Class would be advised to realise this).
Should Obama turn out to be a neoliberal ‘centrist’ who would ‘love’ to do ‘change’ but who ‘pragmatically’ has his hands tied by joining in the ’swindle’, then that will be ‘better’ than Mc$ame, and, if Obama doesn’t move SCOTUS significantly further to the right. then we will be ‘lucky, and, if Obama doesn’t embroil us in another ‘war’, then we will be damned ‘lucky’.
We deserve some ‘luck’. And so do the rest of the people in the world.
I guess there just won’t be any money to invest ‘in’ people, as Sander O has suggesred, so Obama won’t be doing much ‘rebuilding’, either here, or in Iraq, or where ever terrorism must be ‘rooted out’ next …
And the infra-structure? Gonna have to wait.
Health Care? Sorry …
Yeah, Eli, I can see how Obama might only do one term.
Guess it depends on how many people (who ‘matter’ to him, whomever they might be) he disappoints.
But, perhaps Obama’s better angels will encourage the better angels of all humankind, and a new Golden Age shall dawn.
Or, maybe, we will ALL win the lottery and start a par-tay of our own.
Therefore, I say, Party On!!!
And, to quote a true gentleman, who treats all life with compassion and appreciation, “No war, but class-war!”
I don’t know if it has gone up or not, they’re attaching it onto something else that already existed. I’m terrible at searching on Thomas and it’s too late for me to try tonight.
solai: That is curious that they are allowing a voice vote. The Senate Reference site says this:
It would seem to me that means that it is very important who is Presiding when the amendment comes to a vote. They can simply declare the outcome they want. If it gets in, I have a hard time seeing how even 10 Republicans would vote for it. Their base would be absolutely apoplectic. If so, this could be Reid’s way of pretending to play along while in reality helping to kick this thing further down the road. They won’t vote until after sundown, so there will be one more day of “post-rejection” market results for them to ponder with regard to how close we are to disaster.
i think we must consider the possibility that this is what obama wants. that all the stuff he’s been saying to get elected is not stuff he really wants to do.
Yes. As card carrying members of the reality-based community, we must consider that possibility :-(.
Who said the caucus was told? Did they talk to Obama directly? Who said it on Democracy Now? Are they honest? Got a YouTube of it?
At what point can we expect a leader to start exercising leadership?
You answered a question that was not asked. Did I mention you?
It’s incomprehensible how often the Dem “leadership” has been outmaneuvered by the “minority” party.
Maybe we’ll get lucky because will only have a 2 week term? Wouldn’t that be great progressives/liberals? Then we could say, “Whew. I was nervous there. I really thought he was going to start water boarding people like Bush did. And I honestly thought he was going to attack Russia for John McCain! Boy are we lucky he only did 2 weeks of damage!
roll out your (seriously!) wonderful list.
now, find a starting point to cover all the problems listed therein.
I’m not that wise. Maybe you are.
Don’t get me wrong. I treasure your contributions to this blog.
We have faith in John McCain that he will lead our nation to the beautiful sunny place we’ve been wanting to go to in a long time.
If Obama hamstrings his presidency to the tune of $700 billion, he’ll have to be a political genius to get re-elected.
According to Mudflats, Todd Palin is a Stalker.
count up to 60, slowly or fast. makee no difference.
kucinich reported that the caucus was told. he said he did not hear it directly from obama. that was yesterday. this morning it was discussed, because it had apparently been published (from another source, i think but am not sure as i did not read it) at huffington post.
g’nite princess.
When they actually become the leader?
why does everyone think this bailout bill is written in stone? Why can this law not be amended after Jan. 20, 2009?
thanks jim. i will look for it a bit tonight.
I’d really like a record of that vote. You would think that Reid would want one too. If it fails, I’ll blame Reid for not capitalizing on the ‘no’ votes. If I didn’t know better, I’d think Reid doesn’t want it to pass.
Someone watch to see if Reid just mouths his ‘yea’ vote soundlessly.
I take Obama pretty much at his word, because he has never claimed to be a flaming progressive. At the least he will govern slightly to the left of Bill Clinton. And I have no reason to believe that the things he says he wants to do are not his sincere beliefs. He’s nothing if not deliberate and steady-as-she-goes.
mebbe he’s that rarest of things, a politician who wants to tackle the problems and not simply his own re-election from day 1 on.
Hey Bush wasted more than that in Iraq and he got reelected.
Doing a drive by, haven’t done more then scan comments. I was on pins and needles waiting for the progressive bailout plan this afternoon.
Has that gone anywhere? Isn’t that a more sane approach?
We got slammed up against the wall back in the last subprime scam. As newlyweds with a child on the way. To hear the money pundits talk that’s sooo long ago no one remembers. Well, we do. Meant our first born was delivered on “socialized healthcare” because we lost our jobs, our insurance and back wages owed.
Same players, different song.
No bailout for party hearty ,snort- it- like there’s no tomorrow scam artists. Neil Bush, John McCain et al..
Troopergate witness flips like a Crazy John.
living in OH, I challenge that assumption.
I wish I could believe that. Although my skepticism on that count is hardly limited to Obama.
Am I gonna need body armour to wade in here? I hear arrows thunking in the walls an’ shit.
LOL I’m being snarky, of course. I’m the lefty troll on the lefty blog tonight. Just ignore me. ;-)
Oh my!
understood and agreed. keep it in mind as a possibility, no more.
Good to read you DWB…
I always thought that a real melt down would be the only chance for a radical change to sensible government. The meltdown will, in itself be a sign that the system is fatally flawed. If the pols can recognize this, then they can think outside the box and come up with some new age thinking and dump the old republican free market as god meme and trickle it up a bit for a few decades… at the same time pulling back our expensive aggressive foreign policy.
We need to re build america as a land of freedom, justice, fairness and rights and of course economic justice.
If they rescue the market… with this crap… (which they won’t be able to because there are multiple 10s of trillions of crap out there coming home to roost) it will only push back the day when the new america can arise. We had some good stuff in the first incarnation, but lot’s of ugly things in our first 200 yrs – slavery… comes to mind.. and now torture, dropping atomic weapons… We’re smart but do lots of dumb things.
Power is corrupting and greed is pervasive.
See: Century of the Self
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/d…..de_1.shtml
I do, too. They will get to the truth about Ohio some day, I hope, and it’s going to be very ugly.
Here’s the progressive bill:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs…..lternative
OK, good point. But it shouldn’t have even been close.
I may be wrong about this but I think most of us here accept that Obama is not progressive. He was against the Iraq war but he never led the opposition to it on the Hill. He flipped and backed the FISA Amendments Act which he said he would filibuster. He is now saying that he supports the “compromise” bailout bill even though that bill is the Paulson plan with bells and whistles added but the substance unchanged. I have yet to see Obama act as a progressive or with progressives. So I guess my point is that no one should be surprised when, in fact, he doesn’t act progressively.
just had a flash of deja vu
BONK! Ouch! Hi dragon, and welcome. Stay hunched over a bit. It seems effective here so far. oh sigh….
why do we always attack our own as 1st choice?!; cowardly, as far as I’m concerned, harumph!
…Or it could lead to martial law.
The UK’s money markets want a bailout NOW:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/the…..ertpeston/
turn around twice and click yer heels cowboy. “they” is “us”.
Thanks Pogo.
If credit is frozen, so is credit repayment (payments), and the whole house of cards will come tunbling down….
What are the banks going to do with 10-20 million vacant houses? Evict the squatters?
that is my fear.
I’d much prefer mariachi law.
I’d settle for ‘humanly conscious’, Eli, with a large bit of true compassion and a willingness to grapple with the reality of life for most people.
What I ‘want’ is probably what most ‘want’; if there is to be ‘genius’, then let it radiate ‘power’ as truth and understanding, not as ‘pragmatic’ political ‘expediency’ which calculates ‘effect’ and panders to obscene wealth, military supremacy, fear, unreason, mindless drivel or religious arrogance …
Substance, not appearance.
Reality, not convenient fictions.
pw upstairs with a four letter word
Pogo was so great and now we have Opus – funniest thing I have ever seen.
Barack Obama seems to be taking this election seriously, whereas, Johnny McTeleprompter picked the girl in the boxing ring who wears a bikini and holds up the number of the round we’re on. I knew he was a moderate and had some issues that I didn’t agree with, but when Dennis Kucinich had to bail out of the race and told me (and his supporters) to support Barack Obama, I had no problem in doing that…
Oh wait. What the hell was I thinking! We’re supposed to be hating Barack and giving Johnny some slack right now! Sorry. I lost my mind for a second.
I would totally love that. I just don’t think that person is running this year.
In the beginning of this crisis there was some talk of solving it like Chili(?) Peru(?) did, LOANING the banks money and there would be NO bonuses or dividends paid out till the loan was satisfied. But I haven’t seen any economist mention it anymore. Not feasible?
Gotta say that first provision is a real non-starter for me. It’s just the kind of deregulation that got us in this situation in the first place. Hard to see how it’s “progressive”.
Wackos the Palins are, but according to Eli, Barack is worse!
Yes, yes, yes, o.k., uh huh, and perhaps. Sorry. Lost count….
He’s fairly young, supremely qualified for leadership role carried out with courage, forsight, and humane intent, unless my radar has gone totally whacko.
Is he, under the present circumstances, not to be allowed to grow into the job, albeit under critically urgent circumstances?
Whom would you prefer? [??????????]
My money’s on him. No, not just him. Him and his staff and Biden, under Obama control, AND, yes, Obama’s wonderful supportive and incredibly accomplished in her own right, spouse, Michelle.
I’ll take that package, thank you. And I’m a sometimes cranky, demanding, not easy to please old bat who’s been around the block.
Because McCain is awful does not make Obama suddenly golden. For us to understand them and assess what they are likely to do and what the consequences will be for us, we need to look at both of them as dispassionately as we can.
Yes, thank you. I read the bill this afternoon but I haven’t heard squat about a reaction. Maybe it takes time. Maybe it’s just not so important to the “serious congress people”. Doesn’t leave a lot of room for shady back room deals.
No glory in that bill, except for the American rabble.
What does Directive 51 say about our nation?
How could we have come to such a pass?
Note: The best answers, snarkish or not, to these questions, shall entitle the ‘winners’ to a lifetime of joy, bliss, sorrow, consternation, exultation and a lollypop, of whatever flavor (corn syrup-free) your heart desires.
;~D
LOVE Opus!!!!!!!!!!!! Yesss!
I want mariachi law. Great song, by the way!
you’re right, of course.
i’m not feeling very dispassionate, and i’m not helping anyone else get there either.
It’s got a good beat, easy to dance to…
goodgawd! /s???
no one at our house has claimed any human was ever golden…
Cutter John fan, myself.
I don’t think there’s much chance of deciding what a prez will do. I believe that Obama is much more progressive than he has seemed. He has had to walk such a knife edge in this election and I think has balanced on the edge fairly well. He can’t do much for us either way unless he wins.
I know. It’s shocking. Just when we didn’t think anyone could be as wacky & weird as the Palins…we get…*pointing at the Obama/Biden ticket*…worse! Yes worse!
/snark of course (or I would be checking myself into a right wing rehab center as the only lefty)
i don’t think you’re being asked to do so.
politics, leadership, the DOING of civilized activity is messy, especially in a democracy.
keep up the spirit and dialog.
Dear departed Molly Ivins would be thrilled. ;->
Just remember, at some points along the way, we MUST act, or we’ll lose it all. d’oh
Listen, when I go out drinking with my friends I don’t want to hear all the “what if’s” before I go. Get my drift? Let’s trust him now and if once he’s in office and fails us, then we will react. Lambasting him now over ridiculous crap is only giving talking points to the right wingers! But then again, some Democrats care. They’d rather lose an election then be sane for 30 days.
*some Democrats don’t care
As I pointed out earlier today, you can’t mark to market if there is no market. In this instance, it is the government which is intervening and as the only buyer it is the market and establishes the price. I have suggested that price can be established by sampling tranches by vintage to assess for rottenness and then raise or lower depreciation against a standard reference representing the predicted overall decline in home values. I have suggested this figure would likely be about 40%.
It is key that a price be put on assets so losses can be determined as well as the extent of recapitalization necessary. This must take place in a new tighter regulatory environment. Such an approach would establish rock solid confidence in a financial system that currently has none.
No war but class war. Now.
Giving away $700 billion on Dubya’s say-so is “ridiculous crap”?
Come to think of it, I guess it is.
We are the fact based side of the blogosphere. There is no evidence that Obama is more progressive than he seems, beyond our wanting him to be.
Eli, has he voted yet? And if he votes for it and it doesn’t pass anyways, you’re not going to write more posts lambasting him now are you? Maybe that would be the moment we should all give $2,000 to McCain’s campaign? We could support the enemy to piss off our own side!
I canz go wit you?
Gross pf Pimco has offered his services free of charge in evaluating the tranches IF others are willing to do the same.
But I’m still trying to find out who the “more than a dozen banks” are that report their overnight lending charges to the British Banking Assc. who sets the LIBOR rate. Seems to me they are the ones that need to be targetted and taken over.
Congressman Mike Michaud here in Maine is considered a Blue Dog, but yet, when you look at his record:
http://www.ontheissues.org/Hou…..ichaud.htm
He’s a wicked liberal! See?
Panicking a month before the house burns down by lighting a match and then saying, “See! It’s on fire! I knew the house was going to burn down!” is not an example of sanity.
Hon. You’re NOT the only lefty. It’s just that some of us with gray hair have learned to survive and continue the struggle by heaving mightily at every opportunity, and then paused to nourish the result of our efforts during the fleeting time till we have another chance to make another mighty shove.
No one promised it would be easy.
His record is his record. I do not think his positions on the FISA Amendments Act and now the bailout bill are trivial or ridiculous.
LOL Sure. You can come to right wing rehab with me as the only lefty. I’d love the company. ;-)
We lived with FISA being criminal from February 2001. I mean really if this was OUR biggest issue why didn’t we storm DC with pitchforks & torches? Oh wait. We’re blaming Barack for everything now! Sorry. I forgot.
Doesn’t matter:
“GOP Computer Expert Spoonamore Predicts The 2008 Election Will Be Stolen”
VR conducted an explosive new interview with GOP cyber security expert Stephen Spoonamore last week in which he predicted that the 2008 presidential electi on will be stolen in favor of McCain/Palin with a win at 51.2 percent, unless the people involved are exposed and brought to justice. He also states that the optical scan voting systems at the tabulator level constitute a national security threat because now the “genie is out of the bottle” and foreign countries can compete on the best election hack in order to decide who is the next U.S. president. You can watch this extraordinary interview on http://www.rovecybergate.com and http://www.velvetrevolution.us
Barack Obama made us stay home!!! Damn him all the hell! And while I’m at it….I blame Bill Clinton for everything too! Poor Georgie had to sit there in that classroom the morning of 9/11 thinking he’d wished Bill never existed.
Okay, going to bed now laughing my ass off. Nite all. ;-)
In case you weren’t aware, Leahy introduced and had passed legislation providing armed guards for the Supreme Court Justices.
i’m sneakier and more cowardly than that, but yeah. I guess. I work better, person to person, whenever the opportunity presents itself…
i have a problem with the WORD war. Hard case. Good luck with that.
No, he’s only publicly called for its passage. I guess he probably doesn’t mean it, though.
And we’ll do nothing about it. We never do. I heard on the radio that the Obama team has loads of attorneys lined up for the election day. What an asshole right winger he is for wanting to protect votes! Asshole I tell ya!
Okay, going to bed without my laughter now.
I must as well jump in with my little comment.
I hate it when David Sirota is right, I mean correct. Laura Tyson is an Obama adviser and on the Morgan Stanley board of directors? I support Obama like everyone else who has a brain, but…
Aargh!
Did you know the military has an Army combat brigade training to combat Americans on American soil? Nice huh? Probably being set up for when the market crashes AFTER THEY STOLE BILLIONS FROM US after we BAILED THEM OUT. But hey! We won’t blame anyone but Barack because he’s so evil! Evil I tell ya! He’s duping us and George was so honest. McCain too. Very honest guy.
we all live with the results of the elections.
speaking of which, how many of us are keeping up with election security in our own states and neighborhoods?
If we’re not, we might as well be shouting into a box of bananas, for all the good we’ll do.
And Rick Davis, John McCain’s campaign advisor, IS STILL A DIRECTOR FOR FANNIE MAE & FREDDIE MAC! We love him for this. He makes us proud and he’s very trustworthy.
Bear Stearns had a hedge fund in the Cayman Islands which helped with it’s implosion. I bet Barack set this hedge fund up too!
There there. I don’t even know how to hold a gun, much less shoot one. I would feel no safer if I did.
But, I probably could field-dress a moose as well as sarah.
seriously! ;->
If Obama buys this bag of bullshit he will own it despite the fact that George created it. The Democrats must put forward their own plan with strong regulation on banking and finance. Directly buying and refinancing home mortgages at a fair price for 6% over a 45 year non salable mortage with a 50% goverment stake in any profit at sale. 200 billion in a public infrastructure renovation. 100% rebate for home owners who put on solar collectors. 100% reimbursement to States for building high volume high tech transmission lines. A tax rebate up to the cost of the car for getting a plug in electric car. etc. etc.
If we as ordinary democrats can see these outlines of a true recovery plan, why cant the politicians that we hire see them.
I hope Obama wins but by god I intend to keep his feet to the fire to be the President of Change. The bail out is just more of the same Bush-McCain crap.
Nite, pups. I gotta go catch up on some nightmares I started last night.
No. None of us are particularly happy these days.
But we have each other, and others who truly care.
I know that for a fact, and you can store that in your vault.
P. E. A. C. E.
I’m talking with a Brit right now who’s watching the LIBOR and some businesses melt down and she’s wondering what the hell is wrong with us that we haven’t done the bailout yet. Yes, she wants regulation as well.
Good points. A little tweak: How about considering how you might help him do just that. Encouragement and support always work faster and more effectively than force. The latter makes you fight through resistance.
Keep a close eye, and look for signs and direction. You might be surprised at what you find.
Yes, I’m very aware of the BCT 1 deployment to deal with ‘crowd control’. Your sarcasm is wasted as I don’t think in terms of evil and good but honest,forthright versus deceptive,obfuscating.
I decided not to vote for Obama after he failed to show leadership on FISA, just as he is now doing on this pile of crap. I won’t be voting for McCrazy either. I’m revolting against my history of ‘choosing between two evils’ and ‘voting for who I think ‘has the best chance of winning’. This time I’m voting for who best supports my point of view.
Deos she know who the “more than a dozen banks report to the British Bankers Association (BBA) their estimates of the rates at which they are able to borrow money from other banks. “?? It is those banks who are manipulating the credit crisis.
Obama’s starting to sound more like a doper than a hoper.
The bill is getting passed.
There is no victory for the vast bottom in the “class war”. Its just a cheap stunt to allow more profit and shaking out losers on the -777 then +500.
R’s are looking for something to lie about for 6 weeks and that may continue – but if they do not poision the pill/bill there will be candy & power to convince 6 people to flip on each side. Only chance of it going down is if there is large oscillation between libs & conservative wing.
Senate vote will focus more pressure on the House.
Its getting done, and the money is gone.
I do hope there is a political tipping point, however game theory and money/power theory tells us that political status quo is more likely and the markets will burn, we will burn, then the robbery will start all over again.
We are so under educated that its quite hard to know what to do or what to believe. If anything the obvious 90% distrust of these losers is a good thing. I knew this was coming for quite some time (maybe 1 year so I would imagine prez knew 4 years ago and congress 2 years ago) – would have been nice to discuss it. For all my high likely hood of “knowing” what was coming there was nothing to do and not much more than working 50 hours a week to be done.
Bah, the money is so far gone with or without this 700 billion or so that it does not much matter. Worth a fight on principle for sure in all cases – but its gone. Millions across the globe marched against Iraq war and it did not matter. They are not going to listen.
Oh, and wages will go down. We will now have at least two recessions where we lose on the down side and in at least one we lost on the up-side. Can move that back even more.
Was about over a year ago my buddy lost his house over some bad luck after 11 years (and a good loan). Bank would not meet him in the middle and ended up selling his house after much cost for $999.01 more than what he tried to work out.
Gotta sum it up in a line:
Feed the Rich, Eat the Poor.
If people are not marched into court in chains then you will know nothing has changed.
meh, i still think: “let mccain eat bush”
then roll the ceo job to teh pos dems.
No we don’t need to look with dispassion. That’s insane.
At this point, dispassionately looking at anything is rhetoric best saved for the academe.
It’s an election.
You vote for one, or the other.
Or you waste a vote on someone else, which enables one of the first two to win.
And who cares how golden Obama is.
We KNOW what McCain is. He’s awful.
Palin’s worse.
We don’t need to assess what Obama will do, we know that McCain and Palin are worse.
Just vote for Obama/Biden. Help them get elected.
I sure wanna know what the hayall you and the two others in here will do when you find out that you helped elect McCain/Palin, and you were responsible for continuing the war in Iraq, breaking the country econ wise, aided and abetted the nukes that will fly, the invasion of Iran, the clogging of the Straits, the global financial collapse, the failed nuking of Afghan/Pakistan to get the Taliban, the end of Roe v. Wade, Brown v. Board Of Ed, the end of any gay rights, the beginning of witch hunts run by Block Captains who turn in their neighbors, and the loss of healthcare, jobs and the ensuing mob rule in cities.
Oh. And thanks, hoss, BTW. For making me and my wife’s final 20 years a nightmare that even Soylent Green and FailSafe couldn’t. Not to mention any kids, grand kids you all might have, or know.
As Ernest Tubbs Said:
Thanks A Lot
That’s ‘Executive’ Order 51?
Martial Law, For Any Reason
I don’t CARE if every president has one of these, this pretzel is not every president.
And his admin is not every admin.
Can they blow it all up and take power? Yes.
Will they? Crapshoot.
Depends on how much they think they would fail, and can get caught, stopped, frogmarched and tried and convicted.
But they are gonna be wanted men abroad, the day their term ends.
I don’t think the world is gonna treat them, or USA, very nicely, for a long, long time.
Given that, I think they’ll make a play of some sort to keep power.
And move on from there to reclaim ‘world power’ status.
Which I’ll argue, that despite of our thousands of nukes and ability to deliver, we’ve LOST.
The World Power, that is.
Interesting times.
GOBAMA!
I’m a progressive, but one of the things that has always bugged me about the liberal side of politics is the fact that they “feel so right”. This is a case where the average American does not grasp the extent as to which non-action would place the American economy. You need to have at least a basic understanding the economics – which sadly is not taught in school. This is must pass bill and Obama knows this. So please quit being so self-confident that you know economics when you don’t.