We are all pre 1789 France now.

Oh man, I’m so freeking confused. So, what are we hoping for? Shoot it down and start over?

the bill is being “debated” on the house floor now – 3 hours alloted (the rule governing this was passed early this morning) and they began almost 2 hours ago. (details)

Clap if you believe the market regulates itself!

In 1998, I lost every bit of my money in the stock market.

I was disabled at the time, left to live on Social Security. I struggled. I found work that I could do as a medical transcriptionist. I built a little business. I bought a little house (less than 1000 square feet). I was getting back on my feet.

My job was sent overseas where people would do it for 10 percent the pay. I found another job. My house appreciated.

I bought a new house. Unfortunately, when I asked my loan officer (at Countrywide) what I could afford, she instead told me what they would lend me. I didn’t find out until the day I signed papers that my payment wasn’t enough, and the balance on the house would go up each month.

No problem, she said. The house is appreciating more than the amount the loan balance is going up.

My job was eliminated again, this time replaced by technology. I got behind — or should I say behinder. The market went south. The 50K equity I had in the house evaporated — in fact, now I was 100K upside down.

Everything came crashing down. I went bankrupt and lost the house.

Who bailed me out, can you guess? Right. Nobody. I am 55 years old. I can’t start again. I will never own a house. I will be a bag lady.

Fk them all. Let them fail.

(((LindaR)))

If it melts down will we still be able to afford endless Middle East wars?

I am on board with points 3 through 4 and believe this is bad business. However, on point one a couple of my CPA buddies have indicated that this would help with the problem. Their explanation was that those assets do have value and will have value if held until maturity. Any thoughts on that from more adept economic minds?

Finishing up the peace tour now, keep an eye out in southern california:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..-tour.html

After this I think… well… I guess I’ll just have to keep doing it. eventually the rest of y’all will catch on.

maxine waters up. she supports the bill and lauds barney frank’s role. blech.

Did I hear right on C-Span that this will be a CLOSED session vote on the bailout?

It’s a strange mix, the representatives who are against the bill. I feel very weird when I agree with Darrell Issa!

Kucinich was saying this morning, according to Rawstory, that the votes in the House aren’t there (yet).

I am left with calling my RETHUGLICAN Rep Buyer to actually get proper representation here by using his natural antagonism with the Dems to get him to vote NO on this shitpile.

I’m sorry, but it is getting harder and harder for me to see voting for ANY Dems in November. I am thinking of voting ONLY 3rd party, and where there is no 3rd party, simply abstaining from that vote. The Rethugs want to put the government into my bedroom and take away my rights and serve the rich, the Dems want to help the GOP take away my rights and get into my bedroom and serve the rich.

There is no one running, and no on in office, who is serving the people except for a few like Kucinich.

As usual, very nice. Keep on doing it and someday peace….

who did you think you hear say that? i have a recording and go back to see if i can find it if you will give me some clues.

Thanks Ian for helping to make sense of this bill – I believe in it like I believe in the tooth fairy.

thank you for your persistence!

Waters: I can’t take the chance that people will lose their pension funds.

Well, then, keep the 700 Billion and use it to support the pension plans. But don’t buy crap paper –

Can’t they see this is a Ponzi scheme, and Wall Street is looking for one last player to take the bottom rung so they can get out?????

do you happen to know whether Brad Sherman or Dennis Kucinich have spoken yet?

Out of curiosity where does point 2 come from? It is not part of the bailout bill that I know of. The other 3 points are.

BTW selise passed me a link to a call Paulson had with bankers, because you know, bankers are more important than we are (it got leaked to the web). Pretty far along in the question phase, Paulson talks (at two different points) about not buying assets at “fire sale” prices but prices should be “reasonable” which for him means that they should be high enough to attract participants to the auctions. He also predicts more failures. Questions came from good American banks like UBS and Deutsche Bank.

Hope it dies and then Wall Street starts to wailing and moaning and then self destructs, taking the whole show with it. This bastard (the ENTIRE US financial/business system) is a walking corpse and needs to be buried so a fresh and ALIVE body can be put in its place.

It is time to start scoping out rich people’s properties for seizure by the people. I don’t want their mansions or cars, I want some of the primo land some of them have stolen up.

Barney Frank said “egregious” !

I’ve been going through the buffer on the TV and can’t find it yet.

Still trying to get a handle on the magnitude of $700B.

$700B = 7 x 10^11 (^ means exponentiation) dollars
Say there are 3M = 3 x 10^8 people in the U.S.
Say there are 3 people per household, so 1 x 10^8 households in the U.S.
Say that 1 household in 20 really needs help with their mortgage, so 5 x 10^6 troubled households.
Just to keep things simple, bump that up to 7 x 10^6 troubled households.
Divide 7 x 10^11 dollars by 7 x 10^6 = 10^5 dollars per troubled household.

Which is $100,000 to every troubled household in the U.S.

EGAD!

This amount of money could provide a significant fraction of the households in the country with their own home, free and clear.

And instead of that, $700B is going to do WHAT?

sherman was up earlier. made an excellent statement. don’t recall hearing kucinch yet today (did listen to his excellent statement from yesterday). will try to post links in a little bit.

OT:

Anyone catch this scathing post by Fareed Zakaria on Palin?

My fantasy: regular citizens go on strike for two days.

No work. No purchases. No contributions to candidates.

Also in the telephone conversation, Paulson says that he will only go for warrants if purchases exceed $100 million for a company. What this means is that if Treasury bought $200 million from a firm, it would only require warrants on the second hundred million. What is interesting about this is that this is not mentioned in the bill.

It is has been a cornerstone of free-market philosophy for as long as I can remember that something is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay you for it, no more, no less. If they are willing to abandon this one, there are several others I’d like to discuss.

Here’s the letter from 170 of the nation’s academic economists. We the People need to sign on too.

http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/…..rotest.htm

To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate:

As economists, we want to express to Congress our great concern for the plan proposed by Treasury Secretary Paulson to deal with the financial crisis. We are well aware of the difficulty of the current financial situation and we agree with the need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function. We see three fatal pitfalls in the currently proposed plan:

1) Its fairness. The plan is a subsidy to investors at taxpayers’ expense. Investors who took risks to earn profits must also bear the losses. Not every business failure carries systemic risk. The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.

2) Its ambiguity. Neither the mission of the new agency nor its oversight are clear. If taxpayers are to buy illiquid and opaque assets from troubled sellers, the terms, occasions, and methods of such purchases must be crystal clear ahead of time and carefully monitored afterwards.

3) Its long-term effects. If the plan is enacted, its effects will be with us for a generation. For all their recent troubles, America’s dynamic and innovative private capital markets have brought the nation unparalleled prosperity. Fundamentally weakening those markets in order to calm short-run disruptions is desperately short-sighted.

For these reasons we ask Congress not to rush, to hold appropriate hearings, and to carefully consider the right course of action, and to wisely determine the future of the financial industry and the U.S. economy for years to come.

BTW the link to the Paulson telephone call and notes on it can be found here:

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com…..ction.html

The sound quality is not great.

It’s not directly in there, it’s very indirect. There’s an obscure bit of Section 128 where they move up the effective date of some other legislation from Oct. 1, 2011 to Oct. 1, 2008. That other legislation is the move-the-reserve-to-zero legislation.

I pasted the text from CR last night.

Which means if the netroots is going to get ANY calling posts up to organize calling and faxing it needs to happen NOW. Right?

re treasury’s call last night with 800 of their closest banker friends.

last night prostratedragon posted the link to naked capitalism:

Mussolini-Style Corporatism in Action: Treasury Conference Call on Bailout Bill to Analysts

unfortunately the link is only to a torrent file. however there are lots of good comments.

for fdl readers who want to give it a listen: if you can download the torrent, please do that and cross post widely (and save my hosting $) – but for those who don’t do bittorrent or are on dial up, i’ve posted a flash audio stream which i hope is workable for dialup connections.

“Second: Reserve requirements can be reduced to zero for banks.”

Just like in Communist Russia and China and Socialist France, at the height of respective periods of socialist excess! Bank of America will become Credit Lyonnais (under deGaulle or Mitterand), ‘cept privately owned.

for the house yes. i expect the voting to be complete by early afternoon et.

Yeah, like how about the definition of a recession, or is that somehow set in stone!

In some sense, no need. The Capital Switchboard alternated this morning between “All circuits busy” and taking 2 minutes to answer the call. The staffers in my Reps’ offices all said they have had three or four callers on the hold all morning and all the calls are against.

That’s no reason to let up. But spontaneous calling and opposition are already overwhelming. Join in!

really dumb question. If they’re prepared to reduce reserve requirements to zero, then why don’t they just do that and not bail out any bad debt? I mean, if we’re really following the Guallist model, where banks will have effectively zero reserve reqs (no risk of capital calls), then we can force the banks to keep bad mortgages on their balance sheets indefinitely or at least for extended periods without (additional) risk to the wider economic system. Giving them additional capacity BEYOND zero, as a result of the buyout of bad debt, simply gives them room to engage in more/future risky behavior with swaps/derivatives and more/future risky loans. Come on, idiots (directed at Congress)!

Then some faxing would be quite effective right now too.

Spontaneous is “nice” but organized is more effective…

A further point on the telephone call is that Paulson makes a distinction between direct purchases and market mechanisms (auctions). If Treasury has to buy direct, then they are going to shake things up in the executive hierarchy like the did at Freddie, Fannie, and AIG. But if folks play ball and participate voluntarily in the auctions, he was signaling that they would get a good price for their crap.

I should point out that OTOH Paulson keeps saying that no one knows what these assets are worth and on the other he’s saying companies will get a “reasonable” price for them. Am I the only one who sees a contradiction in this? He’s saying for the rubes there is no way of knowing the price and to his buds he wink wink assures them he knows what the price is and that they will get it. Can you say flim flam?

I posted the academic economists’ letter @ 30 because the three points are pretty easy to understand and easy to use as talking points when calling or faxing letters.

I suspect that the most effective, to the extent there is any marginal effectiveness, is to call “safe” Democratic and GOP congressfolk. Anyone not already safe is definitely voting against it. Pelosi and Boehner are trying to pass it using only safe districts; and I think the 220-198 vote this morning already shows we only need to peel a dozen off.

I’m against this, and as I told my congressman’s office this morning: voting this down will lead to a crash. I know that perfectly well. And I still want him to vote against it.

Thanks, I saw that and wondered what it was about at the time. That is nuts. This reminds me I need to send a note to Durbin and Obama. I do not think it will be long. Just something along the lines of “You must be off your rockers!”

It’s a case of strange bedfellows. My conservative nutcase Representative is also libertarian. So shock of shocks he voted against the FISA bill and now has said he opposes the bailout.

and selise,

Who on the floor of the House would be willing to enter this call into the record and read it? Dennis Kucinich?

i don’t know if there is a transcript.

if there was, i’d suggest ron paul actually (if hadn’t already made his statement) – he already hates the treasury and the fed.

Funny you should mention Mr. Johnson…

at the point, i’d prefer a conservative nutcase who votes the way i want to a “progressive” who explains how badly s/he feels for having to vote against me.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s erie prediction on our current economic crisis, written Feb, 08!

“When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners, the Bush administration will not be judged favorably. The tale is still unfolding, but when the dust settles, it will be judged as a willing accomplice to the lenders who went to any lengths in their quest for profits. So willing, in fact, that it used the power of the federal government in an unprecedented assault on state legislatures, as well as on state attorneys general and anyone else on the side of consumers.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02783.html

My “reasonable” letter to Durbin and Obama:

You guys must be off your rockers. Do you really think we are a bunch of rubes? I read the bailout bill last night and listened to Paulson’s call to bankers (that got leaked to the internet) this morning. This bill is the Paulson plan with lipstick. Oh yes, there is oversight out the gazoo but no enforcement mechanisms. Paulson still gets his $700 billion and gets to do with it whatever he wants. In his telephone call, Paulson made it clear that he would pay good money for bad assets and that the bankers had nothing to fear from him. So yes, this is a bailout of the rich by the rich with taxpayers’ money. Did you really think we wouldn’t notice, or that we would be flimflammed into believing there were no other alternatives?

hugh, selise and Ian;

Have you heard any possibility of organization of the netroots on this (StrangeBedfellows) or are we left to spontaneous calling and faxing?

Ah yes the Courier, I would see him all the time at the gym looking all Lincoln like, or trying to. But selise is right. I’ll take his voting with me on this in place of Durbin and Obama’s crocodile tears.

What I’m interested in is, is there a provision that will prevent the same people from traveling down the same roads again and again beyond the date that the bill goes through. Anything that tells them they cannot continue to bundle loans and sell them off as derivatives, etc. and expect future bailouts.

I would think emailing either Jane or Glenn for StrangeBedfellows or Ian. I’m not connected in any way.

from what prof foland wrote, it sounds as though it is happening spontaneously. in some ways that is good because it means that without leaders the congress critters don’t know who to try to convince and or co-opt.

the senate still has to take this bill up later in the week. for today, i’d say just keep calling and/or emailing and asking people you know to do the same.

good advice i think. no connection here either.

I like that and would add the suggestions by Galbraith and Isaac to mine.

Might I ditto that to them?

fyi – marcy kaptur up now on the house floor doing a good job.

Might I ditto that to them?

Obama and Durbin?

I would think emailing either Jane or Glenn for StrangeBedfellows or Ian. I’m not connected in any way.

Shorter Hugh: Ask the rabble-rousers!

pelosi up.

it’s the end of the 3 hours designated for debate so she may be wrapping up now.

The bill in various places calls for reports. Your question made me go back and search the pdf of the bill. “Derivative” is mentioned once in a section where the Secretary is to determine if the public has been given sufficient info about a company’s financial position re among other things derivatives. “Swap” is mentioned twice. Both in a call for a report on regulatory modernization to be completed April 30, 2009 or 7 months from now. There were also calls for reports on leveraging and deleveraging in the current meltdown and on mark to market in bank failures.

The shorter answer to you question is no. There is nothing in the current bill that would re-regulate markets now.

Sure.

Inexcusable!

Tyranny…

Now I understand the Commerce Report released seven years ago that stated the service sector would be the largest employer in the US by 2012…

pelosi says the party is over. the bill has oversight and an end to the golden parachutes for ceos.

me: that’s not what i heard on last night’s phone call.

pelosi tells us one thing, and treasury tells the bankers something else.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/And…..vants2.jpg

how about a nice gig in the service sector?

Hey Nancy,

Main Street doesn’t want to BUY IN to Wall Street.

That’s the BS they have been selling to workers for years – INVEST in the market – BUY a 401K plan ijn stocks in your company. RUBBISH

WE don’t want to buy into Wall street and we don’t want them playing with our savings

How patronizing. She thinks “stating that” (golden parchutes gone) is the cure all and all the citizenry will now dance in the streets?

Total BS from her lips to our ears. Shameful of her.

the longer pelosi speaks, the more i realize she either has no clue what she is saying or doesn’t care.

she says nice things about barney frank and the house erupts into applause.

i wonder – did any of them actually read the bill they are about to vote on?

Christy has a shiny new post up entitled: “Not Just The Hatch Act: About That DOJ Exodus, Add “Interview Avoidance” To The List”

pelosi is as bad as bush using a national crisis for political advantage instead of working to help the country.

oh joy. rahm emanuel up.

Too funny, in a tragic way.

I’ll tell you, I found that commerce report while researching “why” the No Child Left Behind Act was “dumbing” down curriculum and carrying standards like 40% as considered passing.

A NCLB report referenced the Commerce Report and stated the NCLB Act would make students more prepared to meet this demand by 2012.

This bailout is part of THAT plan.

Well, what the hell, Selise! John McShame went all the way to Warshington to save the economy and he hadn’t read the bill yet, and that was when the bill was only two and a half pages long! Wish that had been brought up at the debate! At least it should be brought up on the campaign trail!

Is that the same pelosi who has a copy of the constitution that is missing impeachment language? O yea ,a real patriot,right? That sure is someone I trust, like any other traitor.

i doubt obama read it either.

kucinich is up!

Golden parachutes as far as I understand are only banned prospectively, not retrospectively. If a company goes bankrupt or someone is fired, then no golden parachute. Other than that it is pretty much business as usual. There is one provision of trimming a corporate tax break from $1 million to $500,000 on executive pay. That’s about it.

The whole issue was one of fairness. In terms of the dollars involved it was always a very minor issue.

In terms of the dollars involved it was always a very minor issue.

yes, but i hate to hear pelosi lie about it from the house floor.

bailout is being discussed in christy’s new thread.

What companies will go out of business on Main Street if Wall Street doesn’t get more play money from the tax payers?

I don’t think most of the critters understand what is going down or what the “real problem” is. They are acting EXACTLY as they did in the run up to the war and the patriot act.

STOP… the sky is not falling. Wall Street model is on it’s last gasp . Hurrah. let it go down.

HELP the people in jobs not the slackers on Wall Street.

Worried about payrolls? – offer loans to MAIN STREET.

SHUT DOWN the mortgage industry

Re set all mortgages to 30 year fixed at 6% ALL MORTAGES

No bundling, selling or leveraging of mortgages. They remain in the vault on your main street bank.

Our congress listens to lobbyists and fat cats (their friends). Fascists are here.

I just called my Rep. They’ll type it up and give him the message. Lloyd Doggett. Usually I can count on him. This time they told me he’s got some concerns with the bill the way it is.

1:52 EDT looks like it didn’t fly . Spend 10 billion or 4 to 5 times the enforcement budget that is now spent . Fines and confiscation would put billions in the bank and cut the crap. Weed out the criminals.