So you’re in a boat, and it starts taking on water. You grab a bucket and start bailing. What do you tell the rest of the crew?
"Find the hole, and plug it."
All the running around, screaming and arm waving in Washington right now is about organizing a bucket brigade, but I don’t see anyone talking about finding the hole and plugging it up. Right now financial institutions are still engaging in the many of the same practices that caused this crisis. Everyone bandies about "subprime" as if that’s the key to the problem. It’s not. First of all, the problem extends far beyond subprime even when it comes to mortgages, diving deep into what’s known as Alt-A and even into prime territory. Second, this housing downturn while bad wouldn’t be causing all these troubles if it had happened 20 years ago. The default rate is high, but it’s not catastrophically high. We’d be looking at a nasty recession, but it wouldn’t be a financial crisis.
What is making this crisis so bad, in two words, are leverage and complexity. It has been entirely possible to leverage up to multiples in the hundreds, where for every dollar you’ve bet you’re controlling hundreds of dollars. That’s how you make money in this game. If an underlying asset makes a 1% profit – i.e., one cent, that’s not much. But if you’re leveraged 500 times, unltimately, hey you just made 50% return. Sweet! Of course, if it loses a cent, or two cents—or worse, 3 cents, well, you could have problem.
Just tightening up mortgage requirements, then is not enough. Financial institutions and investors of all kinds, including hedge funds, need to be forced to reduce their leverage ratios to something reasonable. This needs to be total leverage – the problem now is that you may leverage 5 to one when you first borrow money. You put that in a brokerage account, and then you leverage that 10/1. You’re up to 50/1. You buy a heavily leveraged security, say 10/1, and hey, you’re at 500/1. That has to end. Leverage has to be end to end. Make it 10 to 1 max. If you don’t, financial institutions can just keep growing flooding the boat damn near infinitely.
The second problem is complexity. The securities created in this mess weren’t just highly leveraged in many cases, they were very complex. A single mortgage might be sliced in multiple ways, the simplest of which being selling the revenue stream and also selling the default risk (if it defaults, you get the proceeds from the sale of the house.) Fraud was instrinsic to this model, because the face on the default risk, for example, was often overstated. If a large number of people who are very good risks start all going belly up and losing their houses all at once, you probably aren’t going to get the $800,000 sale price the house was worth during the bubble, are you? Yet the security would be sold at that value.
But the complexity goes far beyond that. Simply put, these things are so complex that no one knows how much they are worth. No one can really value them. We don’t really know what the default risk is. We don’t really know what the returns are. We don’t really know what the property is worth. Even if there had been no fraud, we wouldn’t be entirely sure about these things because no one really agrees on what future property trends are going to be. To value these things you have to make estimates. Bluntly, the financial industry’s track record at making these estimates hasn’t just been bad, it has been catastrophic. They never got it right. (Which, again, suggests fraud. Even fools sometimes luck into getting things right.)
So, if you don’t stop financial institutions from making bets they don’t really understand, based on favourable assumptions they can’t back up, they’ll keep doing so. Add in massive leverage and you’re looking at a gusher. The ship keeps taking on water.
If you don’t close the hole, if you don’t make it impossible for financiers to keep flooding the boat with water, they will keep doing so. As with gamblers who are down, they will stay at the table trying to get their money back. Worse, because they know that the government is making what amounts to an open ended commitment to buy toxic crap at a price more than it’s worth, why shouldn’t they play? Heads they win, tails the taxpayers bail them out.
If you don’t patch the hull, if you don’t make significant regulatory changes at the same time as you are creating a bailout bill, you’re just buying time. The ship may stay afloat as long as you don’t stop ferrying buckets of money to the financial sector, but it’s still got a massive hole in the hull and it’s still taking on water.
Any bailout bill that does not have significant regulatory changes will not solve the problem. It will, at best, kick it down the road for as long as taxpayers are willing to fork over a hundred billion a month or so to keep it from exploding. It may even make the problem worse because of moral hazard—heads the financier who makes a bet wins, tails the government bails him out.
Related posts:
- The Next Big Taxpayer Bailout? IMF Could Get Hundreds of Billions for European Banks
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Barry Ritholtz – Bailout Nation: How Greed and Easy Money Corrupted Wall Street and Shook the World Economy
- Bank Bailout: When a Bonus Exceeds Earnings, How is It Not Fraud?
- Bankster Bluster Leads to Legacy Loan Program Fail
- Cheetos Are Forever





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Uno?
All valid, but in case you run into people who just say “Hell, no, no bailout!” point them toward this op-ed. Lucid explanation of the circumstances from Bruce Bartlett, endorsed (more or less) by Brad DeLong.
Heard this on the radio….. on the reason that this bailout is such an emergency…. several foreclosure court cases (CA but not sure) were thrown out of court until the lending agency could prove who owned the mortgage in total……. the court told the owners to go home and live in their house……
There’s a Hole in the Bucket Dear Henry
Thanks Ian.
digg
Super. One of my favorite childhood songs. Thanks for the link.
And Ian, great post…a splendid if terrifying analogy. Thank you.
That one’s an old childhood favorite of mine as well. Sorta like for the lack of a horse shoe nail we lost the war.
Nevertheless…I was cleaning out some drawers in the kitchen the other day and I found a whole bunch of wine bottle corks. Saving them for what? Cat toys, who knows. But, if the government needs something to plug some of those holes, I’ll gladly give them up.
PS…I tried to throw them away, but my boys snagged them for building their new board for War Hammer 40,000.
Dugg
Ian, thanks for another great post that explains the ins and outs of economics, and the mess we are in, in such clear and understandable language.
Ian, I’m reminded of an older post you did, “Bankrutpcy is for the Little People.”
Wow. Homeowners actually owning their homes!
Why wouldn’t the financial corps continue to do the same thing over & over again, as long as they know they’ll be bailed out?
What’s the opposite of Tough Love?
How are ya dear? Get that apartment cleaned for your Visit? Hope it was delightful. Or, at lease fun?
Since no clear holder of the paper was identified….. the court could not proceed with the case…… As Ian pointed out….. single mortgage was split out, repackaged and who knows what and when the entity who was in charge of forcing the foreclosure…. they could not prove or identify the single owner of the paper…..
unintended consequences……
Unreal, all that has happened to America in 7 1/2 years, isn’t it?
wow ian…hammer on nail..nice
I heard senator sanders on the tom hartman show and MAN he has some GREAT ideas
“wall street caused this problem and wall street has to pay for it, I would like to see a 1% fee on every trade”
“10% hike in income tax on thosee who make 500,000 or more, which is simply rescinding the bush “tax cuts” (I wish he said tax gifts from the middle class but I ask too much)
“a company too big to fail without a bailout from the government is too big to exist”
GREAT stuff, go and sign the petition he has on his website, I’ll try to get back with that link
also, sanders intends on reading some emails on the senate floor so Ian, I think you might want to send him something, you have such an excellent way with metaphor
I’m shocked.
OT: I was napping when the Biden thread started, but what he needs to do to Palin (figuratively speaking) is lay a WOO lick (explained at 6:55 on her.
Sometime during the debate, I want Biden to rebuke her so hard, and so up front, it’s like Ronnie Lott delivering a “Woo lick.” I want to say WOO when Biden hits her.
THis is how we must fight them. Deliver the woo licks. Intimidate them. Nothing else will do.
not just bailed out. rewarded.
our incentives are just so fucked up.
when it comes to this kind of thing, sanders is about the only senator i trust.
Pretty much, yup. The fight right now is over whether rich people get bailed out and if little people AFTER going bankrupt, might be allowed to keep their houses.
first link, protect the middle class and regualte wall street
and he has TONS of GREAT EDITORIALS on the subject
Ian, where can I purchase your audio cd? This is just too good to just read.
My favourite line, I need to write an article on it:
““a company too big to fail without a bailout from the government is too big to exist””
So is it just going to be like Iraq? One giant fuckup where they keep coming back to Congress for more funds? And if the money isnt turned over yet again, the Dems will be blamed for the war failing/the financial markets failing.
It has the feel of a stupendous racket. At the same time, the crisis in banking is real. I hope we can figure a way out of this mess.
What regulatory changes do you advocate? Say I have someone from Congress on the other end of the phone, what are the 3-5 elements that are critical?
lol. Just imagine a late night radio voice. That’ll make it go down easy.
ding
sign his petition her
this is a great petition, forgive me for posting the entire text but it’s not too long, this needs as many sigs as we can gather
No debt sold more than 2 levels away
no end leverage more than 10/1
Everything has to have at least 8% collateral
mortgage levels based on 30% of average earned income in an area
Insure money market funds, allow insured money market funds to be used as reserve requirements
No financial instruments more complicated than the underlying asset or property (ie. an instrument based on a mortgage can’t be more complicated than the mortgage).
No instruments sold to the public which cannot be understood by a kid with a grade 8 education.
No usurious rates. No one can lend money to anyone for more than prime +10%, and that includes any possible combination of fees (which are just considered interest)
Aren’t there things we can learn from the way the Swedes resolved their crisis? Doesn’t seem that they ran around in circles waving their hands in the air. Also, they tried to protect the people rather than throwing them under the bus during “negotiations”. (It’s NYT, so you may have to log in.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09…..ref=slogin
and just to keep the symmetry perfect, we punish the whistle blowers.
what about that using depositor’s funds thing that was just changed?
I keep remembering that FDR put old Joe Kennedy in charge of the SEC since Joe knew all the abuses (he’d used them) and could guard the henhouse well.
Somehow, though, Hot Hank doesn’t inspire the same level of confidence. When he’s testifying on Capitol Hill, he looks panicky.
And his boss? Don’t get me started.
That too.
Good post, Ian, but I’ll be damned if I can figure out how you can leverage 5 to 1, much less 50 to 1 or 500 to 1. Other than that, I understood the article quite well. Guess I’m just not sophisticated enough in financial matters to understand that part. Maybe you could explain to me, if I buy a house for $100,000, does that mean that the lender sells my loan to an investor in the secondary money market at $500,000 and then the investor further sells off the income stream and also sells off the default risk, so the investor gets his money back, but the entity that ends up with the default risk and the entity that ends up with the income stream that is no longer producing have to fight it out as to who owns which part? In this game of musical chairs, surely someone has to lose his seat entirely!
glass-steagall
transparency
What about groups of mortgages of different risk levels, combined in one instrument, surely there’s a place for that? I’m missing something.
ian, I think you are going to get some insight from this c and l quote
notice my bold, if that’s true, that is game changing
another old saying
the best cops are crooks and the best crooks are cops
takes one to know one usually results in those monitored not being able to pull any fast ones
Can you spell taxpayer?
What I got from Senator Feinstein:
Dear Mr. Sims:
Thank you for your letter expressing concern about Congress’ consideration of a plan to meet our Nation’s credit crisis with financial help from the Federal Government. This is a difficult situation for which there are no perfect solutions, and I would like to share my thoughts and concerns about this issue with you.
On September 19, 2008, Secretary of the Treasury Henry M. Paulson, Jr. announced a legislative proposal to use $700 billion to purchase illiquid mortgage-related assets from ailing financial institutions. Secretary Paulson’s three-page proposal was a non-starter, and without critical changes it has no chance of approval from Congress.
This proposal would have given a blank check to an economic czar who would have been empowered to spend it without administrative oversight, legal requirements, or legislative review. Decisions made by the Treasury Secretary would be non-reviewable by any court, agency, or Congress. The proposal also lacked a requirement for regular reports to Congress on the status of the program. This was simply untenable.
Since this announcement, my offices have received thousands of comments from Californians like you concerned about how this action will affect them. Yet, I believe prudent action must be taken. The bill should include the following principles: a phase-in of funding; oversight, accountability and transparency; a mechanism allowing the Secretary of the Treasury to modify mortgages to prevent additional foreclosures; and a precise cap on executive compensation.
The current credit crisis affects all Americans. If action is not taken to stem the crisis, Americans risk losing their homes, jobs, personal savings, life insurance and more. Banks will cease to lend to businesses and homeowners, and credit will be increasingly difficult to come by for average Americans. I strongly believe that the consequences of failing to act now would be greater than not acting at all.
Attached please find a statement I recently made on the floor of the Senate expressing my feelings on this issue. Please know that I will keep your thoughts in mind as this situation unfolds.
Once again, thank you for writing. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841. Best regards.
U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein
Floor Statement on the Economic
Rescue Proposal
September 26, 2008
“Mr. President, to date I have received from Californians more than 50,000 calls and letters, the great bulk of them in opposition to any form of meeting this crisis with financial help from the Federal Government. I wanted to come to the floor to very simply state how I see this and some of the principles that I hope will be forthcoming in this draft. Before I do so, I wish to pay particular commendation to Senator Dodd, Senator Schumer, Senator Bennett, and others who have been working so hard on this issue. I have tried to keep in touch — I am not a negotiator; I am not on the committee — but California is the biggest State, the largest economic engine, and people are really concerned.
We face the most significant economic crisis in 75 years right now. Swift and comprehensive action is crucial to the overall health of our economy. None of us wants to be in this position, and there are no good options here. Nobody likes the idea of spending massive sums of Government money to rescue major corporations from their bad financial decisions. But no one also should be fooled into thinking this problem only belongs to the banks and that it is a good idea to let them fail. The pain felt by Wall Street one day is felt there, and then 2,3,4 weeks down the pike, it is felt on Main Street.
The turbulence in our financial sector has already resulted in thousands of layoffs in the banking and finance sectors, and that number will skyrocket if there is a full collapse. The shock waves of failure will extend far beyond the banking and finance sectors. A shrinking pool of credit would affect the home loans, credit card limits, auto loans, and insurance policies of average Americans. I am receiving calls from people who tell me they want to buy a house, but they can’t get the credit or the mortgage to do so. Why? Because that market of credit is drying up more rapidly one day after the other. It would have a major impact on State and local governments which would lose tens of millions of dollars, if not hundreds of millions of dollars.
Hurricane Ike shut down refineries on the gulf coast 2 weeks ago, and now, today, people are waiting hours in lines for gasoline in the South. Similarly, the collapse of the financial sector would have severe consequences for Americans all across the economic spectrum: for the person who owns the grocery store, the laundry, the bank, the insurance company. Then, if the worst happens, layoffs. And even more than that, somebody shows up for work and finds their business has closed because the owner of that business can’t get credit to buy the goods he hopes to sell that week or that month. Wages and employment rates have already fallen even as the cost of basic necessities has skyrocketed. Our Nation is facing the highest unemployment rate in 5 years, at 6.1 percent. Over 605,000 jobs have been lost nationwide this year. My own State of California, a state of 38 million people, has the third highest unemployment rate in the Nation at 7.7 percent. That is 1.4 million people out of work today. One and a half million people — that is bigger than some States. We have 1.5 million people out of work, and one-half million have had their unemployment insurance expire and have nothing today.
Congress is faced with a situation where we have to act and we have to do two things. We have to provide some reform in the system of regulation and oversight that is supposed to protect our economy. We also have to find a permanent and effective solution to keep liquidity and credit functioning so that markets can recover and make profit. The situation, I believe, is grave, and timely, prudent action is needed.
Just last night, the sixth largest bank in America — Washington Mutual– was seized by government regulators and most of its assets will be sold to JPMorgan Chase. This follows on the heels of bankruptcies and takeovers of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, AIG, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac. If nothing is done, the crisis will continue to spread and one by one the dominos will fall.
Now, this isn’t just about Wall Street. Because we are this credit society, the financial troubles facing major economic institutions will ricochet throughout this Nation and affect everyone. So I believe the need for action is clear. But that doesn’t mean Congress should simply be a rubberstamp for an unprecedented and unbridled program.
My constituents by the thousands have made their views clear. I believe they are responding to the original 3-page proposal by the Secretary of the Treasury. It is clear by now that that 3-page proposal is a nonstarter. It is dead on arrival and that is good. Secretary Paulson’s proposal asked Congress to write a $700 billion check to an economic czar who would have been empowered to spend it without any administrative oversight, legal requirements, or legislative review. Decisions made by the Treasury Secretary would be nonreviewable by any court or agency, and the fate of our entire economy would be committed to the sole discretion of one man alone — the man we know today, and the man whom we don’t know after January.
Additionally, the lack of governance or oversight in this plan was matched by the lack of a requirement for regular reports to Congress. This proposal stipulated that the economic czar, newly created, would report to Congress after the first three months with reports once every 6 months after that. This was untenable. Six months is an eternity when you are spending billions a week. The Treasury Secretary asked Congress to approve this massive program without delay or interference. It is hard to think of any other time in our history when Congress has been asked for so much money and so much power to be concentrated in the hands of one person. It is a nonstarter.
Yesterday, shortly before we met for the Democratic Policy Committee lunch, we were told there had been a bipartisan agreement on principles of a possible solution, and many of us rejoiced. We know that our Members, both Republican and Democrat, have been working hard to try to produce something that was positive. Then, all of a sudden, it changed. One Presidential candidate parachuted into town which proved to be enormously destructive to the process. Now, negotiations are back on the table, and as I say, we have just received a draft bill of certain principles.
I would like to outline quickly those principles that I think are important. First is a phase-in. No one wants to put $700 billion immediately at the discretion of one person or even a group of a very few people, no matter how bright, how skilled, how informed they might be on banking or finance principles. The funding should come in phases and Congress should have the opportunity to make its voice heard if the program isn’t working or needs to be adjusted.
The second point: Oversight, accountability, and governance. The Treasury Secretary should not and must not have unbridled authority to determine winners and losers, essentially choosing which struggling financial institution will survive and which will not. The original plan placed all authority in the hands of this one man, and this is why I say it was DOA — dead on arrival — at the Congress. We must assure that controls are in place to watch taxpayer dollars and make sure they are well-spent fixing the problem, and that oversight by a governance committee and the Banking Committees are strong, and that they give the best opportunity for the American people to recover their investment and, yes, even eventually make a profit from that investment. That can be done and it has been done in the past.
I believe that frequent reporting to Congress is critical. Transparency, sunlight on this, is critical. So Congress should receive regular, timely briefings, perhaps weekly for the first quarter, on a program of this magnitude. A proposal should mandate frequent reporting and the public should be ensured of transparency to the maximum extent possible.
I also believe that within the first quarter — and this, to me, is key — a comprehensive legislative proposal for reform must be put forward. We must reform those speculative practices that impact price function of markets. We must deal with the unregulated practices that have furthered this crisis. Look. I represent a State that was cost $40 billion in the Enron episode during 1999 and 2000 by speculation, by manipulation, and by fraud. There still is inadequate regulation of energy commodities sold on the futures market. And that is just one point in all of this. We must prevent these things from happening. The only way to do it is to improve the transparency of all markets. No hidden deals. Swaps, in my view, should be ended. The London loophole should be ended.
We have to outline rules for increasing regulation of the mortgage-backed securities market, along with comprehensive oversight of the mortgage industry and lending practices for both prime and subprime lending.
Senator Martinez of Florida and I had a part in the earlier housing bill, which included our legislation entitled the SAFE Mortgage Licensing Act. We found that the market was rife with fraud. We found there was one company that hired hairdressers and others who sold mortgages in their spare time. We found there were unscrupulous mortgage brokers out there unlicensed, preying upon people, walking off with tens of thousands of dollars of cash. This has to end. It has to be controlled. It has to be regulated.
So I believe the crisis of 2008 stems from the failure of Federal regulators to rein in this Wild West mentality of those Wall Street executives who led those firms and who thought that nothing was out of bounds. Every quick scheme was worth the time, and worth a try. Congress cannot ignore this as the root cause of the crisis. It was inherent in the subprime marketplace, and it has now spread to the prime mortgage marketplace.
It is also critical that accurate assessments of the value of these illiquid mortgage-related assets be performed to limit the taxpayers’ exposure to risk and structure purchases to ensure the greatest possible return on investment.
Taxpayer money must be shielded at all costs from risk to the greatest extent possible.
Reciprocity is not a bad concept if you can carry it out. The Government must not simply act as a repository for risky investments that have gone bad. An economic rescue effort that serves taxpayers well must allow them to benefit from the potential profits of rescued entities. So a model — and it may well be in these new principles — must be developed to ensure the taxpayers are not only the first paid back but have an opportunity to share in future profits through warrants and/or stocks.
As to executive compensation limits, simply put, Californians are frosted by the absence of controls on executive compensation. Virtually all of the 50,000 phone calls and letters mentioned this one way or another. There must be limits. I am told that the reason the Treasury Secretary does not want limits on executive compensation is because he believes that an executive then will not bring his company in to partake in any program that is set up. Here is my response to that: We can put that executive on his boat, take that boat out in the ocean, and set it on fire. If that is how he feels, that is what should happen, or his company doesn’t come in. But to say that the Federal Government is going to be responsible for tens of millions of dollars of executive salaries, golden parachutes, whether they are a matter of contract right or not, is not acceptable to the average person whose taxpayer dollars are used in this bailout. That is just fact.
The one proposal that was made by one of the Presidential candidates that I agree with is that there should be a limit of $400,000 on executive compensation. If they don’t like it, too bad, don’t participate in the program. As I have talked with people on Wall Street and otherwise, they don’t believe it is true that an executive, if his pay is tailored down, will not bring a company in that needs help. I hope that is true. I believe there should be precise limits set on executive pay.
Finally, as to tangible benefits for Main Street in the form of mortgage relief, there have been more than 500,000 foreclosures in my home State of California so far this year. In the second quarter of this year, foreclosures were up 300 percent over the second quarter of 2007. More than 800,000 are predicted before this year is over.
I have a city in California where one out of every 25 homes is in foreclosure. This is new housing in subdivisions. As you look at it, you will see garage doors kicked in. You will see houses vandalized. You will see the grass and grounds dry. You will see the street sprinkled with “For Sale” signs, and nobody buys because the market has become so depressed.
This crisis has roots in the subprime housing boom that went bust, and it would be unconscionable for us to simply bailout Wall Street while leaving these homeowners to fend for themselves.
Everything I have been told, and I have talked to people in this business, here is what they tell me: It is more cost-effective to renegotiate a subprime loan and keep a family in a house than it is to foreclose and run the risks of what happens to that home on a depressed market as credit is drying up, as vandals loot it, as landscaping dries up, as more homes in the area become foreclosed upon; the way to go is to renegotiate these mortgages with the exiting homeowner wherever possible. I feel very strongly that should be the case.
I don’t know what I or any of us will do if we authorize this kind of expenditure and we find down the pike in my State that the rest of the year, 800,000 to 1 million Americans are being thrown out of their homes despite this form of rescue effort. Think of what it means, Mr. President, in your State. You vote for this, any other Senator votes for it, and these foreclosures continue to take place and individual families continue to be thrown out of their homes. It is not a tenable situation.
I hope, if anybody is listening at all, that in the negotiating team, they will make a real effort to mandate in some way that subprime foreclosures be renegotiated, that families, wherever possible, who have an ability to pay, have that ability to pay met with a renegotiated loan. I have done this now in cases with families who were taken advantage of. We called the CEO of the bank, and the bank has seen that the loan was renegotiated, in one case in Los Angeles down to 2 percent. That is better than foreclosing and running the uncertainty of the sale of the asset in a very depressed housing market.
These are my thoughts. Again, it is easy to come to the floor and give your thoughts. It is much more difficult to sit at that negotiating table.
I once again thank those Senators on both sides of the aisle who really understand the nature of this crisis — that it isn’t only Wall Street, that it does involve Main Street, and if there is a serious crash, it will hurt tens of millions of Americans, many of them in irreparable ways. So we must do what we must do, and we must do it prudently and carefully.
I yield the floor. I suggest the absence of quorum.”
Sincerely yours,
Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator
John will never gamble with our economy. Well, maybe not too much.
ok, c and l is referencing this tpm cafe post…very very nice post
Ah, but that’s like playing russian roulette. There have been plenty of liquity (i.e., lack of confidence of financial intermediaries) in the past that have resulted in depressions, absent govt bailouts. Do you want to take that risk?
Thank you, it works.
The problem Ian is that Wall Street will not play if the are forced to abandon their highly leveraged high risk and high return business model. Making “reasonable” return on investment is not an option for the masters of the universe. It’s evident in what these guys pay themselves as compensation. If they are not making multiple 10s of millions … why bother? That what these guys do…. move billions around before 10 am coffee break.
If you kill the goose that laid the golden egg… the street (wall) shuts down.
*gentle reminder*
when posting a comment that is long, please break the comment up into sections or parts
doing so increases the likelihood the comment will be read and not scrolled over (and keeps the server hamsters happy)
what I want echan is for their industry to fund their own bailout
it seems to me senator sanders idea will address our concern that they are simply waiting for the money, they will stop waiting if they see the money is comming from their own pockets
win win
Hi Suz & your gentle reminders. Very germaine.
Just read WAPO’s “For Obama, Dialogue Drove Week’s Work.”
Am I the last to wake up here? Has everyone else concluded that McCain tried to box Obama into committing to the bailout by suspending his own campaign, calling on Obama to do the same so as to focus totally on the financial crisis…while knowing full well ahead of time that the House (LET THE FREE MARKET SOLVE EVERYTHING!!)GOPPERS planned a walkout leaving Bush and the Dems and Obama committed to a bailout???!!!
Well, that’s what I think we witnessed.
No wonder the candidates were barely cordial at the debate…that low down, double-talker, good for nothing, Mc*sshole was playing games with our stocks and bonds and mortgages and retirements and credit cards and car loans and student loans and foreign investors and municipal financing, etc., etc!!!
I wish one of you FDLs capable of investigating and writing would connect the dots for us here.
History is not your friend in what you want.
I think they will play if they are forced into not playing unless they follow the rules
some of my relatives are from germany!
The CEO of WaMu stands to walk away with an $18M golden parachute after three weeks on the job.
There just aren’t the words.
Apologies all for the long post providing Feinstein’s response to my faxes.
Here point about doing something for those being foreclosed on I thought important as it is something that probably will be left out and which Obama does not think should be part of this legislation.
Yes, it is not a liquidity issue but one of solvency and fraud which was stated earlier in the week.
For more background of the ‘negotiations’ one can read here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..57_pf.html
From 3 pages to 42 to 112 as of this morning for the legislation; what I wonder is how many Congress critters will actually rad and comprehend what they read.
The problem here is that these guys are not providing anything to the economy at large. They will say they provide capital for industry. Hooey. They just USE OPM other people’s money in all sorts of “schemes” / bets / trades/ to make huge fees whatever based on “money” they create out of thin air…. like the chips in a casino. Completely made up value.. but the gamblers buy them and gamble with them.
I’m still sad that Michael and Jermaine don’t get along. A Jackson 5 reunion would cheer everyone up right about now.
not a problem – and i wasn’t trying to single you out.
it never hurts to remind everyone
You don’t think there is any way the taxpayer will ever get their money back when the assets held as security for the loans get sold? I thought that was what the meetings on capital hill are all about. Aren’t they planning on who gets to give up his seat; is it the guy that bought the now non-existent income stream which was interrupted when the real estate market bubble burst, or will it be the guy who bought the default risk? Personally, I think both should lose, because I don’t think you should invest any more than you can afford to lose, any more than I think you should gamble any more than you can afford to lose.
Hi there.
palin on saturday nite live? upstairs
According to the British it is Stock Market Clobbering Time, as we slip into financial macaca.
Where could the economy be heading? It is going into the John (McCain).
What is the solution? An investment banker has the answer. Bail them out and ask questions later.
Over 50 comments so I can go OT.
First fire in the fireplace of the season. Glorious music (Baroque & romantic era). Fabulous leftovers from the Like Water for Chocolate Mexican restaurant in my neighborhood (this is the only clip I could find on YouTube, and it is not representative of the role food plays but here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35qinhVDCn8 ) Here’s the restaurant website. http://www.zarela.com/
Rs suck, but it’s been a wonderful couple of days.
interesting read from WaPo, ‘How McCain Stirred a Simmering Pot‘,on what went down between Wednesday and Friday and (if true) may answer why there was no eye contact on a certain candidate’s part.
You meant Germainey.
bernhard at moon of alabama:
is that what you were looking for?
Brad DeLong thinks nationalization ala Sweden is the way to go:
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/…..for-a.html
Whatever Republican said that obviously doesn’t understand the cutoff triggers in place.
I reallllly don’t know the A to your Q. All the smart people say that taxpayer will benefit “in the end” and that has happened in the past. But this one is so complicated, as Ian has pointed out, that there’s no way of knowing from the info in the public domain.
From AE:
“The credit markets are dead and gone. The plan being negotiated in Washington is aimed at reviving them. But it will do nothing to solve the problems that have started, indeed caused, the demise of credit. In order to accomplish that, it would have to force all funny casino paper, all securities and derivatives, to be put on the table in broad daylight, valued at current market prices, and sold at those prices. If a buyer could be found at all.
The reason they are so reluctant to do that is that it would be the end-all for most banks, pension- and money market funds etc. Not a pretty sight, for sure. It would, for one thing, wipe out most of those who are around those tables today. So they’re looking for an alternative. The problem with that is that there is, as far as I can see, no alternative. All there is is lipstick.”
because:
“An adapted Paulson plan will try to address that issue by buying up frozen assets, and the idea is that that will make banks whole again, and take away the fear. But that can’t be done with $700 billion, it can’t even by done with $7 trillion. There is far too much of that funny frozen paper in the world, it’s more like $700 trillion, and it is indeed all over the world, which compounds the problem, for all intents and purpose, to infinity and beyond.”
Exactly.
What happened to Speaker Pelosi’s promise not to bring legislation to the floor without enough time for ‘critters to read it? And she also promised that this legislation would be on the internet for all of us to read.
Has anyone seen anything yet?
And don’t get me started on DiFi. Despite all her pretty words about her poor foreclosed-upon constituents, here’s what she told her hometown paper today:
that was pelosi’s, slaughter’s, reid’s and obama’s promise. and we know exactly what happened to it – it became no longer operative as soon as they didn’t want to follow their own rules (see, for example, fisa).
Ian, now I can only wish I understood this stuff as much as you and the great people here, but I don’t. So let me ask a simple question for you or anyone else here, I got this old tree out back that needs to be cut down soon. Should I sell the wood or save it to burn this winter?
Not to worry Ian, the problem has been taken care of and it was quietly taken care of by other members of the G-8. It will become apparent as to why there was a rush to corral the few remaining banks such as WAMU and Wachovia over the last few days as well as why AIG had to go away as well as Lehman and a few others only to be taken under wing by either the Fed or larger banks such as B of A and Chase. It was put up of shut up time and all hell broke loose during the meeting that took place at the White House which was reported without details. Seems a few people in attendence were taken by surprise as to what was coming down.
It can be a very disconcerting when geo political arm twisting is used along with the threat of dumping ones holdings in T-Bills at anothers expense.
Though written in a metaphor format, go to the following site Ian and you’ll figure out exactly how this is going to play out. I’ve been trying to tell people what was coming, but few listened. We were literally taken to the brink. However, while the stench from this bailout will stick in the throats of many and the boy King will take the credit for saving the world from financial destruction, it was other entities from both the east as well as the west that set us on the road to salvation. Again, the following site will explain all.
http://www.worldreports.org
Thanks for the link.
Sounds like that’s what happened. This needs to see more daylight.
Mc*sshole’s reputation as a “straight talker” is just a lot of BS. This guy is so in love with the thought of being POTUS he’d do or say ANYTHING!!
I think Rogoff, far from a liberal or dfh type, is absolyutely right.
Obviously they and muggers do continue until put away.
thers is a couple flights upstairs
When the crisis began there was no government money ready to jump into the game. So, at that point their claim they couldn’t loan money had to have been based on real issues (bad mortgage CDOs which couldn’t be valued) or they were playing a game and were planning…PLANNING…to blackmail government. If the government didn’t pony up they were threatening to shut down the economy.
I want the names of those bankers who were holding back. If there was no real liquidity problem I want to know who they are and see their pictures & names & addresses on the Internet so everyone will know who the enemy of America is.
This crap has got to stop and now is as good a time as any to get ‘er done.
Geez, it’s like a note from a kidnapper: hand over the dough or the stock market gets it.
“The US stock market could suffer a devastating crash …” sounds so reflective, but really seems to mean “The stock market WILL be crashed …”
Could it be that John “Crash” McCain has a hand in this?
“One Republican said ‘We could see falls of 3,000 or 4,000 points on the Dow [the New York market that currently trades at around 11,000].’”
sounds like they’re not just predicting, but promising a crash
‘Peter Spencer, economic adviser to the Ernst & Young Item Club, said: “This is the time you have to bail people out and ask questions later. ..”‘
We “have to” huh? I guess the kidnapper has a point, but do we have to just roll over and let them destroy us ONE WAY just to avoid being destroyed ANOTHER WAY?
What if the bailout is as bad, or worse, than the non-bailout?
The Bushies have been playing both ends of the stick: whichever way things go they’re set to capitalize. In this play to give the bailout would put money directly into their hands and to let the market crash would kill the dollar so they can make a killing in gold.
Best seems to be something which doesn’t hand out cash, but really works to solve the problem — not big, but strong government action.
It was Ohio, Detusche Bank was the mortgage holder, and they were Judicial Foreclosures.
California is a Tustee state, no judicial foreclosures.
http://www.bloggingstocks.com/…..ceclosure/
I’m serious:
http://agonist.org/synoia/2008…..ry_lawsuit
I recall five states went the same route.
It’s not the road to salvation, and yes, of course other nations are making threats. It was obvious that was going to happen a good 5 years ago.
The stock market needs to fall about another 20%, minimum. Might as well get it over with.