good news indeed

A New Hope for the Republic, then.

,i>Granted these aren’t very good polls, but that’s a huge margin of victory.

As in 2000 and 2004, I’m left wondering whether the rest of the country was watching the same debate I was.

At least this time, I’m not angry about it…

that is something worth celebrating, right?

Let’s hope that perception holds.

Earlier I mentioned that hand wringers and trolls needed to calm down. There is nothing that folks who support McCain will wake up in the morning and remember. Obama showed a strong knowledge of foreign policy and I think that folks will wake up and wow, that guy is smart.

I think the polls show who people wanted to win in all honestly I think Obama won but not by much.

Glad to hear that the polls are coming out well.
I was disappointed that Obama didn’t fire back to McCain’s “Obama doesn’t understand..” line.

Do folks here agree with the argument that Barack can’t do that because of age or race issues?

Seems the wrinkly angry cranky white guy thing doesn’t sell. You’d think they would have focus-tested that show before taking it on the road, huh?

Gee, Halperin gave Obama a A- and McCain a B-..

I think Letterman dedicated less of his monologue to McCain tonight but hopefully he’ll continue to pummel him as the show progresses.

A request: We’re going to start seeing a lot of posts about polls of undecided voters. When you post these, if you could also post the total number of people polled, it would really help. So would a link. Thanks!

Yep. But the undecideds moved, is the point.

Obama did not do that because he doesn’t need to. Obama looked Presidential and McCain just looked old. His trust me and I know line is wearing thin.

CBS polled 550 undecideds.

Yes.

that is something worth celebrating, right?

yes indeed.

maybe I’ve simply got the wrong chromosomes for debate-watching…. *g*

Mc looked not wholly un-Nixonlike. Not a winner there.

I was listening to C-Span callers and even the self-professed McCain supporters seemed of the opinion that it was a draw. The consensus among Obama supporters seemed to be that McCain is a lying jerk. Didn’t see that coming…

I’m kind of wondering if McQueeg’s base got fed up enough with the new lack of access and the persistent lies to finally decide to do their jobs. If so, it’s a whole new ball game. The trad. media was so in the tank for W during both elections that if they are finally opening their eyes and ears, it’s a tectonic shift.

maybe I’ve simply got the wrong chromosomes for debate-watching….

Get in line, dude.

can’t wait to see the overnights from Gallup and Rasmussen. Will be very interesting.

excellent news! Thanks Ian!

McCain is a lying jerk

Hmmm, I feel a bumper sticker coming on.

Me, too. Ron had to go out and get me some KFC. ….

I know. I know.

Sorry, but I didn’t see that. McCain looked better than I thought he would, but my expectations were low.
In a debate I think you need to hit back when someone says you’re poorly informed or naive.
Turn the argument back to who is best informed.

I was disappointed that Obama didn’t fire back to McCain’s “Obama doesn’t understand..” line.

Do folks here agree with the argument that Barack can’t do that because of age or race issues?

I agree that Obama would risk being called an “angry black man”, but I think the reason he didn’t hit back harder is that it’s just not his style. He got his response in–”That’s not true”–and I think that’s going to stick. The media is already fed up with McCain’s lies, and I think someone will will systematically go through and point out that, every time Obama said “That’s not true”, he was right. That’s going to be more devastating that any sound bite.

I think McCain came off as a little bit of an asshole, and people usually pick up on that without having it pointed out to them.

(DISCLAIMER: I always thought W came off as an asshole in the debates, too, but a lot of people never seemed to pick up on it, so take my views on this with a grain of salt.)

lol nah your perfect *g*

i’m just the optimist and tend to look at things through a little different lens. It has been known to irritate the shit out of mr wobbs

Luntz went for Obama?

Whoa.

I’m with you, I would have liked to see Obama come back with “No, John, it’s pretty clear that YOU don’t understand and neither does George Bush (whom you have voted with 90-95% of the time, you ol’ Maverick you!) and that’s why we’re in the mess we’re in right now.”

I don’t see that age or race would prevent him doing that. Sometimes you just gotta call a clueless old crank for what he is.

I like it.

Given Obama’s win when lets face it the debate was close the GOP will conclude that McCain is election poison this should change GOP minds on the bailout.

even Pat Buchanadana has softened his stance – having moved, in an hour, from saying that McCain won in a rout to wondering whether Obama came off as more sympathetic to voters.

(he still gives it to McCain on points, though)

Above all, McCain’s contempt and body language killed him. It was like McCain was saying “Why do I have to even stop to debating this uppity n——!

stoop

What does fried chicken have to do with y’alls chromosomes?

Good point. I never understood why everybody didn’t see Bush as an arrogant asshole, either.

Listening/reading reactions of pundits and polls tonight, it seems McCain’s asshole-ness is being perceived broadly.

seems so

I think a lot of people liked the fact that W was an asshole in the debates. But they are over feeling that way after the hell that Zippy The Clown has put the universe through.

It was disappointing to me that Obama didn’t tie the deficit to record Republican spending which would have made mincemeat out of McCains spending cuts argument. Government spending has increased under EVERY Republican president. Borrowing has also increased under EVERY Republican president. Instead of talking about who gets a tax cut, Obama should have been hammering the party of McCain for irresponsible borrowing. Obama should have laid the deficit squarely at the feet of the Republicans. He missed his opportunity to talk about the impossibility of tax cuts and borrowing.

huge gender gap — women turned off by mccain. huge margin for obama.

after 8 years we are tired of tiny NAPOLEANS

Biden revealed his Palin strategery. He isn’t going to debate her. He is going to address the audience. Letting Sarah hang herself.

smart

Buchanan tends to speak out of different sides of his mouth depending on what gets him more air time, at least that’s my take on him.

Rachel has been eating him for lunch when she has him on her show. It has been delicious to watch.

Sure hope you’re right about that.

No, it was more my inability to watch the debate. The KFC is just my particular way of dealing with stress. Now, my stomach feels sort of icky.

I sure hope you are correct about the rising recognition of the assholiness of those two.

And I can hardly wait for the next episode of “Sarah, Plain and Stupid”!

and their complex complexities?

The Rs already know Mc’s not going to win. They’re focusing on Congressional races now. That’s why the House Rs are against the $700BB bailout, just like the American people are — they get to look like the mavericks for the people. Meanwhile Mc, W, and all the Congressional Dems are all lining up together for photo ops and getting associated with the frickin’ $700BB bailout using taxpayer money. Your idiotic Congressional Dems at work yet again, marching right into the trap.

I think you’re right about Obama’s style.
I like it in a nonpartisan setting, but in a fight I’d like to see a little more kick.

Maybe Barack is right that he can low key the whole game, but I’m worried that some will see him as not engaged enough in the game.

Good. There are more women than men to vote.

You got that one right.

So true…You don’t understand, naive, etc. Ridiculous

They know what they are doing. Repug lites. Not on our side-evah.

Good thing the McDonalds isn’t closer.

me too

Gene Robinson is smiling – NOT smirking. I like his analysis of body language.

And lots of people seem to have noticed McCain couldn’t/wouldn’t look at Obama. Since I listened, not watched, most of it, I hadn’t picked up on that. I think most people are put off by that sort of thing.

I think McSame’s asshole-ness was already wiely perceived – makes the point that most people see what they already believe in these debates.

I can’t wait to see that debate. wooweeee.

CNN quickpoll.

I think the popular vote is for a trouncing…

Who fared better in the first presidential debate?
Sen. John McCain 28% 22146
Sen. Barack Obama 67% 53867
Neither 6% 4487
Total Votes: 80500

I think a lot of people liked the fact that W was an asshole in the debates.

Really? I kind of had the impression that they saw him more as mischievous rather than assholish, and I was sitting there thinking, “No, that’s not a prankster. That’s an asshole. They’re two entirely different things.”

I have my standards.

Excellent point — every time BO manages to get under JM’s skin, and makes JM huffy, it runs the risk of looking like JM’s having a racism attack. Hadn’t thought of that.

Drudge report: McSame 69%, Obama 29%, Neither 2% Surprised…? ;-)

Guess I’m the same way. Being the far (out) leftist I am I don’t hear a lot that floats my boat. Stuff like Obama’s stance on Afghanistan/Pakistan just makes me want to throw things at the teebee. I would also have liked him to say that his grand plans would have to be delayed until we get the economy back on track, that doing so would be his first priority, adding that laying the groundwork for those plans, however, doesn’t cost anything. I think that would make folks more comfortable with his economic plan.

Hunter S. Thompson said the following about Ralph Steadman in his forward to Steadman’s book, “Gonzo: The Art.” I wish Hunter was alive today, since (among other reasons) I’m certain he’d have something similar to say about John McCain.

“It was the cruelest and craziest thing you’ve ever done. You are now worse that Hitler in my mind…(He was a monster and so are you. You were twins perhaps, or born in the form of hyenas, then chased out of the tribe for weirdness.)”

29% at Drudge said Obama won it?!? McSame’s toast.

Is the VP debate next week?

Wow, the BO percentage of 67% hasn’t moved at all since I first looked at 5000 & 10000 votes. Rock solid.

Maybe Barack is right that he can low key the whole game, but I’m worried that some will see him as not engaged enough in the game.

I don’t think so. I certainly didn’t think tonight’s performance seemed at all disengaged. I think he’s got the tone just right.

Jane upstairs

I think you’re right, tho’ no doubt some do like the asshole-ness; but most voters seemed to go the best-guy-to-have-a-beer-with route.

Doesn’t it make you want to hear from Rush? Yeh, I know. Not me either.

Sometimes you just gotta call a clueless old crank for what he is.

Yeah, but he can’t SAY that.
I’ve been corrected (in a PC way) on this in the past.
He’s a fine older gentleman. but clueless, and crabby.

jane upstairs

Can you hear your arteries hardening?

Yep. If Palin actually appears.

Can’t tell what Fox viewers are saying. Their website is so loud and badly structured that I can’t find their viewer poll and the colors literally give me a headache. Oh.. they have a front page item about some ghost they filmed.

If McCain is the foreign policy Guru, than what does that make Obama?

Not chopped liver, I would say.

Tweety’s lead is McCain’s inability to look Obama in the eye.

I hope you’re right.
He was engaged, but not aggressive.
Some people see that as weak, others as diplomatic.
Generally I prefer diplomatic, but I’m as mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!

Yep. But I only do this once or twice a year. But when the urge strikes it has to be satisfied.

In the context of the constant claims of sexism when anyone criticizes Palin, how could one not think that maybe McCin’s contempt isn’t racist? But, of course, it is not wise to go there.

That distain again – “you’re not even here” – really ugly.

…it’s a tectonic shift.

And that’s what so few have understood for the last two years, especially Hillary. The old tricks and games do not work like they used to. The Old Guard almost seems incapable of understanding this.

Obama has based his entire campaign around the “tectonic shift,” and that shows tremendous smarts and bravery. Tonight was another example of how much Obama gets what’s going on right now. I, like many here have tendencies to get aggressive and fight fire with fire, especially what we’ve been through over the last few decades, but looking at the pundit response and now these polls, it seems Obama knows what he’s doing more than we do in this regard.

I’ve learned to trust his approach even though it often goes against my instincts. Poblano at 538 was saying today that is getting close to being wrapped up. Hard to argue with Obama’s results.

msnbc poll: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26906945/

Who won the presidential debate?

McSame 35%
Obama 51%
Tie 6%
Not Sure 8%

276223 votes

FrankProbst, in the previous thread:

a tie in these things, which we’ve learned from the 2000 and 2004 debates) is essentially a loss for McCain

This is essentially what I heard David Brooks say on the PBS wrapup with Mark Shields. Remarkable.

(((mary))) how are you?

Wobs! I am fine. Working hard. Making a bit of money. I do need to get out and play.

How are you?

I don’t think these online polls are at all meaningful … it’s more a measure of whose supporters know how to use a computer than much of anything else, and I’m pretty sure that population is weighted in favor of the Dems.

Oh. I get it. Booze and chocolate does it for me.

MSNBC holding at 35% McCain’t to 51% Obama with 291080 responses.

Doing good. Juice fasting for a bit so no alcohol (damn) Miss talking to you

I need to start coming back around more often. I miss the smarts imparted to my bitty brain.

The “independents” live in a politically disconnected space.
They float as if immune to the forces of partisan gravity.
They drift on the currents of only the most infinitesimal of psychic breezes.

Their disconnectedness defines them.

When they viewed this debate, I think they saw more reasons to remain disconnected from John McCain, and saw reasons to be less disconnected from Barack Obama. I think John McCain provided some reasons to connect with Barack Obama: for instance, John McCain.

I’ve been here then absent for a bit. Lots to do (campaign stuff, food bank stuff, etc.)

I was so happy to see Jane comment in the debate thread. Haven’t seen her post lately. Or did I miss them?

Dugg it

“My friends, I am too old, too stubborn, and just too doggonned mean to get elected president of the United States.”

John McCain

late late nite 2 flights up

Take online polls with a grain of salt – most of mccain’s people are soaking their dentures right now. Obama’s posse is surfin’ the tubes.

she’s been in the campaign silo a lot. Check it out – after it hits the front page, it rotates back there. Perhaps you have’t caught one of her posts while it was on the front page. ?

Drudge report: McSame 69%, Obama 29%, Neither 2% Surprised…? ;-)

Don’t you mean the Drudge-Diebold report?

a tie in these things, which we’ve learned from the 2000 and 2004 debates) is essentially a loss for McCain

This is essentially what I heard David Brooks say on the PBS wrapup with Mark Shields. Remarkable.

If a tie is a win for Obama, then what is a +10 advantage in the snap polls?