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	<title>Comments on: Oil Jumps 25 dollars in one day, up $40 from last week</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/</link>
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		<title>By: buddhabrad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1643756</link>
		<dc:creator>buddhabrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1643756</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Apparently, the markets agreed with my analysis.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yesterday’s run-up was a short-term volume-related blip.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Doesn’t mean oil won’t be heading higher over the much longer term, tho.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, the markets agreed with my analysis.</p>
<p>Yesterday’s run-up was a short-term volume-related blip.  </p>
<p>Doesn’t mean oil won’t be heading higher over the much longer term, tho.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642758</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 02:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Fun, eh. It’s a nice trap we’re in. We need to get off oil to break this link.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ehyuh.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Fun, eh. It’s a nice trap we’re in. We need to get off oil to break this link.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>ehyuh.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642755</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642755</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
what day this week should I fill the tank?
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’d fill mine today if I had the money. Heh.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nobody knows how low the market might go, but I’d expect it to go lower until Congress announces a solid plan that makes ‘em happy. And, if oil keeps going up (inversely to stocks), then that means it’ll go up ’til the bill comes out and then might begin back down a bit. But, you know how slow oil prices go down, so don’t bet on it being a crash.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There clearly still needs to be anti-speculation legislation to stop this oh so precious and highly influential price from booming &amp; busting so regularly. It needs to relate much more to the actual user’s needs.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
what day this week should I fill the tank?
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’d fill mine today if I had the money. Heh.</p>
<p>Nobody knows how low the market might go, but I’d expect it to go lower until Congress announces a solid plan that makes ‘em happy. And, if oil keeps going up (inversely to stocks), then that means it’ll go up ’til the bill comes out and then might begin back down a bit. But, you know how slow oil prices go down, so don’t bet on it being a crash.</p>
<p>There clearly still needs to be anti-speculation legislation to stop this oh so precious and highly influential price from booming &amp; busting so regularly. It needs to relate much more to the actual user’s needs.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642690</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 01:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642690</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks. best argument i’ve heard,  you’ve convinced me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks. best argument i’ve heard,  you’ve convinced me.</p>
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		<title>By: Funnydiva2002</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642581</link>
		<dc:creator>Funnydiva2002</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642581</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hey, Ian.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Crap.  Higher prices at the pump _again_.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess the good news is that the RW either won’t be able to artificially lower gas prices between now and the election or if they do, it will be very obvious that’s what’s going on (since we’ll be able to compare/contrast crude prices vs pump prices over a similar range).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Not much of a silver lining.&lt;br /&gt;
Talk about insult to injury for ordinary taxpayers! *spit*&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FunnyD&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Ian.</p>
<p>Crap.  Higher prices at the pump _again_.</p>
<p>I guess the good news is that the RW either won’t be able to artificially lower gas prices between now and the election or if they do, it will be very obvious that’s what’s going on (since we’ll be able to compare/contrast crude prices vs pump prices over a similar range).</p>
<p>Not much of a silver lining.<br />
Talk about insult to injury for ordinary taxpayers! *spit*</p>
<p>FunnyD</p>
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		<title>By: redX</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642552</link>
		<dc:creator>redX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642552</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Ot&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Check out muckycasy overule immigration court to send mali woman back for genital mutilation&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1984&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ot</p>
<p>Check out muckycasy overule immigration court to send mali woman back for genital mutilation</p>
<p>1984</p>
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		<title>By: KayInMaine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642512</link>
		<dc:creator>KayInMaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 00:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642512</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It appears the speculators woke up from their drunk today. Assholes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears the speculators woke up from their drunk today. Assholes.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642502</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642502</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;My argument runs like this.  Crude was selling at $32/bbl when Bush came into office.  During this time, the value of the dollar has fallen.  Even if you took a very generous number like 50%, this would mean that the base price plus devaluation would result in a price of $48/bbl.  Now if we leave out speculation for the moment, the only triggers that will change price are those that affect supply or demand.  On the supply side, you have factors like wars, hurricanes, or shutdowns (like what happened to part of the Alaska pipeline).  On the demand side, you have new players like China and both economic expansions and recessions.  Overarching these is peak oil which is near but hasn’t really affected the calculus of oil prices in the Bush years.  Now the thing about supply-demand factors is that their effects on price last only as long as their effects last on the supply-demand equation.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So you can have a war in an oil rich region.  This can drive up prices because of either fears of a supply decrease or because the supply does decrease.  But at some point the war ends or the production is made up elsewhere.  At this point, the oil price should return to at or near its baseline.  In reality, this only happens this way sometimes.  Political considerations can drive the price down even when there is an expectation that it should rise.  So for instance after 9/11 with threats of war on the horizon, the price actually fell.  Why?  Because a lot of oil producers decided to show solidarity with us.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now some pressures on price can be long term at least potentially.  China is often cited but if you look at world demand China has not had, so far, the big impact predicted for it.  Why?  Mostly because there is a certain elasticity in demand.  Rich countries can conserve some.  Third World countries can be bid out of the market.  The result is that China’s impact on price has just not been very significant.  Maybe it will in the future but China is not an explanation for oil price changes in the last 4 years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So that leaves us with speculation.  And speculation has been tracked over and above supply-demand since 2004 when the year end to year end price increased by a third, and unlike the predictions of supply-demand models, never returned to its baseline.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A $40 turn around in just a few weeks should be a clear indication that speculation is a potent factor driving oil prices.  There is no evidence that $80 to $90 was a floor.  As far as I can see, it is just a made up number.  The only evidence that there is is the 2001 baseline plus inflation of around $50.  These are numbers that are straight out of the futures markets, the currency markets, and the numbers on supply and demand that anyone can look by going to the EIA site for oil and the Fed site for currency.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My argument runs like this.  Crude was selling at $32/bbl when Bush came into office.  During this time, the value of the dollar has fallen.  Even if you took a very generous number like 50%, this would mean that the base price plus devaluation would result in a price of $48/bbl.  Now if we leave out speculation for the moment, the only triggers that will change price are those that affect supply or demand.  On the supply side, you have factors like wars, hurricanes, or shutdowns (like what happened to part of the Alaska pipeline).  On the demand side, you have new players like China and both economic expansions and recessions.  Overarching these is peak oil which is near but hasn’t really affected the calculus of oil prices in the Bush years.  Now the thing about supply-demand factors is that their effects on price last only as long as their effects last on the supply-demand equation.  </p>
<p>So you can have a war in an oil rich region.  This can drive up prices because of either fears of a supply decrease or because the supply does decrease.  But at some point the war ends or the production is made up elsewhere.  At this point, the oil price should return to at or near its baseline.  In reality, this only happens this way sometimes.  Political considerations can drive the price down even when there is an expectation that it should rise.  So for instance after 9/11 with threats of war on the horizon, the price actually fell.  Why?  Because a lot of oil producers decided to show solidarity with us.</p>
<p>Now some pressures on price can be long term at least potentially.  China is often cited but if you look at world demand China has not had, so far, the big impact predicted for it.  Why?  Mostly because there is a certain elasticity in demand.  Rich countries can conserve some.  Third World countries can be bid out of the market.  The result is that China’s impact on price has just not been very significant.  Maybe it will in the future but China is not an explanation for oil price changes in the last 4 years.</p>
<p>So that leaves us with speculation.  And speculation has been tracked over and above supply-demand since 2004 when the year end to year end price increased by a third, and unlike the predictions of supply-demand models, never returned to its baseline.</p>
<p>A $40 turn around in just a few weeks should be a clear indication that speculation is a potent factor driving oil prices.  There is no evidence that $80 to $90 was a floor.  As far as I can see, it is just a made up number.  The only evidence that there is is the 2001 baseline plus inflation of around $50.  These are numbers that are straight out of the futures markets, the currency markets, and the numbers on supply and demand that anyone can look by going to the EIA site for oil and the Fed site for currency.</p>
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		<title>By: Blub</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642494</link>
		<dc:creator>Blub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642494</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think this is a simple correction of the market-jitter driven declines from last week… now that the promised bail-out has restored a measure of confidence, oil is coming back.  I haven’t looked at the volume or volatility numbers so I’m just kind of shooting off my mouth now, but its possible that this really isn’t that complicated, I think.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a simple correction of the market-jitter driven declines from last week… now that the promised bail-out has restored a measure of confidence, oil is coming back.  I haven’t looked at the volume or volatility numbers so I’m just kind of shooting off my mouth now, but its possible that this really isn’t that complicated, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: wmd1961</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642484</link>
		<dc:creator>wmd1961</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 23:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/22/oil-jumps-25-dollars-in-one-day-up-40-from-last-week/#comment-1642484</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Speculation that is informed by both peak oil and peak demand for oil. Like it or not production isn’t increasing, but there are a lot of new consumers in the world in China and India. We’re going to see $200 oil eventually (the Pentagon uses $225 for planning purposes!). The best thing this does is it promotes development of alternatives and conservation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Also of interest is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=DX-Y.NYB#symbol=DX-Y.NYB;range=5d&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;over 3 point drop&lt;/a&gt; in the dollar index.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Looking at &lt;a href=&quot;http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BZU09.NYM#chart2:symbol=bzu09.nym;range=5d;compare=dx-y.nyb;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;oil vs dollar&lt;/a&gt; index it appears that 1/4 of the oil increase is due to dollar waekness. Look for more dollar weakness, it’s the flip side of the commodity price coin.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speculation that is informed by both peak oil and peak demand for oil. Like it or not production isn’t increasing, but there are a lot of new consumers in the world in China and India. We’re going to see $200 oil eventually (the Pentagon uses $225 for planning purposes!). The best thing this does is it promotes development of alternatives and conservation.</p>
<p>Also of interest is the <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=DX-Y.NYB#symbol=DX-Y.NYB;range=5d" rel="nofollow">over 3 point drop</a> in the dollar index.</p>
<p>Looking at <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=BZU09.NYM#chart2:symbol=bzu09.nym;range=5d;compare=dx-y.nyb;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined" rel="nofollow">oil vs dollar</a> index it appears that 1/4 of the oil increase is due to dollar waekness. Look for more dollar weakness, it’s the flip side of the commodity price coin.</p>
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