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With all the financial brou-ha-ha going on over the last few days, there has been a bit of interesting news from the battlefields in Afghanistan. Apparently, a few Marine officers have noted and reported that Pakistani helicopters are running resupply missions for Taliban fighters inside Afghanistan.
How nice, with friends like the Pakistanis, we sure don’t need any enemies in the Muslim world if this is a true allegation.
Pakistani military forces flew repeated helicopter missions into Afghanistan to resupply the Taliban during a fierce battle in June 2007, according to a Marine lieutenant colonel, who says his information is based on multiple U.S. and Afghan intelligence reports.
The revelation by Lt. Col. Chris Nash, who commanded an embedded training team in eastern Afghanistan from June 2007 to March 2008, adds a new twist to the controversy over a U.S. special operations raid into Pakistan Sept. 3.
The Pakistani’s of course did protest the special forces raid into their "sovereign" territory to chase down some Taliban/Al-Qaeda soldiers, who had been hiding in the mountainous tribal regions of the country. For the length of this war, we have been assured that our good "friends" the Pakistanis were doing all that they could to aid in our "War on Terror" efforts, and we have slavishly been willing to go along with their assertions and sell them arms in the process including some fairly sophisticated weapons systems and aircraft. Wow, what a great idea!!!
The Bush Administration on Tuesday urged a skeptical US Congress to release more than $ 250 million to arm Pakistan with upgraded F-16s fighter jets even as US and Pakistani forces stood eyeball-to-eyeball on the Afghan border in a confrontational posture.
Even a blind man can see that the fundamentalist Islamic forces inside of Pakistan are not likely to be anything close to long-term allies of the US if they come to power, and arming them with F-16s with the capability to deliver nuclear weapons is nothing short of completely stupid if there is a Pakistani version of the Iranian revolution in the next 12 to 24 months in that country.
”Let’s be grown-up about this. Do you think the average Pakistani thinks the symbolism has something to do with fighting terrorism or confronting India?" New York Congressman Gary Ackerman, who called the hearing to specifically question funding for Pakistan’s F-16, asked.
”I think we are trying to build the confidence of an ally that is not so allied with us sometimes.”
Lawmakers also expressed concern about the comments of Pakistan army spokesman who said the military has ordered its forces to open fire if US troops launch another air or ground raid across the Afghan border. Doubts were also expressed about the efficacy of F-16 fighter jets against terrorist elements that have frequently been described as scattered and living in caves.
So finally someone asks the right question…what good will F-16s do against "terrorists" in caves? We have had all these weapons at our disposal since the original invasion of Afghanistan, when we had the whole world at our side before Beloved Leader pissed away our support, and could easily have used them to catch/kill/dismember the terrorists they were hunting if these weapons worked in that role. But all those systems were designed and built for the defense around the Fulda Gap, not the mountains of Tora Bora.
We have evidence of the Pakistanis running resupply missions, perhaps at the behest of the Al-Qaeda/Taliban friendly ISI (their intelligence service) into Afghanistan, and now the 1600 Crew wants to sell these same people upgraded and liklely state of the art F-16s which could easily affect the balance of power in the region.
Foreign Policy? Really? Where?
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Jo Fish!
before he manages to bumble into a war with a declared nuclear power, perhaps somebody should remind Dear Leader that Pakistan lacks oil and thus should be beneath his interest.
please tell me no one is surprised by this.
it’s not about islamic fundamentalism in pakistan. i think it’s about being pastun, but i’m more confident it’s about the isi considering the taliban a useful ally against what they see when they look over the horizon – they see themselves being surrounded by enemies.
then there are the second order affects. like the money we give them for the GWOT. it wouldn’t do to have that supply of cash turned off if the war was over now would it?
CT! :)
Bush can’t now. Obama has challenged him on the issue. so Bush has to prove his … uh, SUV is bigger.
Jo, as I remarked on Siun’s thread…
The plot thickens…!
And Bush wants to give them more supplies to be passed on to the Taliban. Please tell me I’m just having a nightmare. This thing get nuttier by the day.
The feeling I got when I was writing this was at every turn it was like an infomercial… “Look! There’s more!” The fact that we have managed to fuck up the next 50 to 100 years of relations with the middle east should come as no surprise.
The F-16 that we sell to the Pakistanis that arrives over some target with a nuke shouldn’t either. Given the range of an F-16 with no airborne refueling assets and drop tanks is about Islamabad to Tel Aviv, it doesn’t take a neurosurgeon to figure out the “first ten days” of their war plans.
H/T to Thomas Mifflin for opening the Digg tonight for Jo Fish’s Post!
Heh, ‘look… there’s more!’ Now we’re giving Maliki F-16’s for its’ “Air Force”… The Kurds are none-too-thrilled to say the least…!
the war has never been about terrorism. that much is clear from how it has been fought.
Did some one say Shock Doctrine?? Free and unfettered capitalism at it’s very best! OH boy there is money to be made and lots of it. The American is afraid very afraid and is willing to pay anything to be safe!!
The war is about raping the natural resource of Iraq, who was a soverign country and NO threat to the USA. Bushco needed Bin laden alive or at least people needed to believe he was alive in order to further perpetrate the farce of the “war on terror” for idiot Americans.
Pakistan is a major future pipeline route from the north to their ports n the south. Some say when UNOCAL was rejected the rights to build a natural gas pipeline.. well, like 9-11, it changed everything.
Btw, Jo Fish, now that El Baradei has
been oustedresigned as head of the IAEA, the US isframingpushing Iran to disclose it’s missile technology…Saddam was willing to sell us petroleum at market price. The new regime will sell us petroleum at market price. If the Iraqi is turned over to one of the a Cayman Islands multinational oil conglomerates, they will sell it to us at market price.
I can see how raping Iraq might profie that Cayman Islands conglomerate, but I don’t see how it profits American taxpayers.
‘Who in the world would believe there are a series of top secret documents US intelligence found on a laptop regarding a Manhattan Project-type nuclear (bomb programme) in Iran and none of these documents bore seals of ‘high confidential’ or ’secret’?”
Obviously, this guy is unaware of the U.S.’s ability to find stuff in the strangest places.
Mohammed Atta’s passport outside of Tower 1 on 9-11, the Bin-Laden look-alike video-tape-confession lying in plain view in a house somewhere in Afghanistan, the Niger yellow-cake documents….
Face it – these guys are good. /s
There will be more raids…so it sounds like engagement with the Pakistanis in the Waziristan area is a fait accompli. So…other than getting the hapless Pakistanis killed who man the anti-aircraft systems or fire on our ground troops, What then? A Pakistani attack on US troops would be a perfectly usable incident to justify an operation to encircle and strangle Waziristan, with the threat of nuclear annihilation if the Pakistanis try to go nuclear.
So…what’s our motivation?
Heh, check out this old post of mine, where Scott Ritter, Sy Hersch, Emptywheel, etal… Thoroughly debunk the lap top and other nonsensical assertions…! And as a bonus I added the Beach Boys utube of
Bomb, bomb, bomb, IranBarbara Ann…! ;-)one has to wonder how a pipeline might be built and maintained through territory so ungovernable and chaotic that no government, pakistani or otherwise, has been able to assert anything roughly resembling effective sovereignty
IMO, it gives the US a strategic veto over who is allowed to buy the oil at market price. We don’t take the oil…we just control who’s allowed to enter or leave the store.
Fuck it. Bail out the whole world and then bomb the hell out of them.
-G
Has the Rick Davis multi million dollar lobbyist for Fannie Mae story hit this place yet?
Link from Americablog.
-G
*ouch* That’s gonna leave a mark…! ;-)
5th grade boys are making our policy. Guess I’ll go pack for the rapture.
In Obama’s case, hope floats. In McCain’s case, shit floats to the top.
-G
I think they have plans to redraw the entire regions map myself.
Late, Late is upstairs…
With Crayons, of course.
CT, what if that wasn’t money, but munitions, timed to blow with the truck bomb? *G*
Now to what PURPOSE that would serve, I’ll leave it to you Spookleh’s to conjure . . *G*
BTW, where did Mr. Spook SAY that? I didn’t see it at ‘Relaxed’ or on his spin offs?
Phreakin bingo . . . recall, in what, ‘98, when The Taliban in Afghanistan told Cheney (of big oil then) NO DEAL WRT the pipeline deal they HAD signed with German’s/Russians and more I believe? N then, along 9/11 and we invaded Afghanistan. That pipeline STILL hasn’t been built.
Pakistan is another pipeline deal being exploded under the guise of MANY other things.
You are SO all over it . . . good call ES.
ES said it. Pipeline access and control of gas and oil deliveries.
And keeping it out of Russian hands, or Chinese hands, of course.
Life is simple. *G*
It was at the Beach House…! Comment #25 on this thread…
Even for Bush this is a pretty crazy scenario. Sure, he might want to mire a new Obama admin. in the muck of Pakistan, but to sell an F-16 to a nuclear power who might soon or someday be led by people who hate Israel is insane.
I wonder what the reasoning for this current situation is. Is “Mr. Bhutto” upset at U.S. over a perception of our involvement in his wife’s assassination or is he really sincerely concerned with sovereign borders? Is the ISI out of control and running this anti-U.S. activity?
I assume they understand we’re going after Al Qaeda at some point and not just rousting elements of the Taliban. I guess it would just a little too much to assume Condi Rice might’ve talked to them about our relations. Nah, more likely Cheney went over and set up some weird scenario to cause maximum damage.
The number and magnitude of problems the Neocon Crazies Bushies are setting is incredible and Dems have limited powers to oppose. Foreign policy IS largely the prerogative of the Executive branch, though one must wonder if warring is properly foreign policy or just war.
Since Independence in 1947, Pakistan’s Military has been totally structured against India — now and always has been that way. F-16’s are not useful for mountain fighting, but quite useful should India invade on the ground — or suggest a nuclear exchange.
Afghanistan — the Pakistani’s want it weak and decentralized, as they view it as their Strategic Depth in relationship with India. The Pashtoons who live on both sides of the border, and in the FATA, have never been fully integrated into Pakistani political culture, but have served Pakistan as an irregular military force since 1947. They were the footsoldiers in the war in Kashmir in 47-48, and since. The Government of Pakistan maintains the fiction that they operate outside of Government control and direction. In Afghanistan they serve to keep the 60% non-Pashtoon Governments from developing a centralized and modernized government. However the Pashtoons in Afghanistan are divided — even though about 40% of the population.
Pakistani Army and the ISI are frequently called “State within a State” with much accuracy. Not at all surprised they would re-supply the Taliban in the FATA — If you understand that “Strategic Depth” doctrine, it is quite predictable. The Civilian Government and even the new head of the Pakistan Army are not yet incontrol of ISI or perhaps parts of the Army, and they would strongly resist a change in doctrine.
It is hard to wrap one’s mind around the reason for being for Pakistan, and how it makes “Strategic Depth” vis a vis India essentially the reason for the Pakistani Nation. In theory, Muslims could find no place in a majority Hindu State — thus Pakistan and partition. But as things have worked out, while there have been communal problems, in general Muslims have far more opportunity in India than in Pakistan and it is obvious. But as the possibility for negotiations with India improves — the rational of the necessity of the Islamic National State is heightened, and is in service to the Army and the ISI.
President Karzi is from a Pashtoon tribe that has at least a 500 year old trade relationship throughout Northern India — along the Ganges to Calcutta and the Grand Trunk Road. He is Indian Educated, as are many in his circle. None in his circle nor in non-Pashtoon ethnic groups support Pakistan’s doctrinal notion that Afghanistan is “Strategic Depth” and thus should have weak governance and little national unity, and remain poor and much weaker than Pakistan. And as long as al-Qaeda and its Taliban associates are in the FATA, the US and NATO troops keep Pakistan somewhat out of serving the Strategic Depth doctrine — at least for the time being. The Pak Army and ISI obviously oppose this exercise of power by Afghanistan.
So the solutions — well they ultimately rest in achieving sustainable agreements between India and Pakistan sufficient that a Civilian Government can take on the Pak Army and ISI on the doctrine of Strategic Depth, and integrating Pakistan into more multi-lateral regional structures. Kashmir is largely a problem of water rights, the head-waters of both the Indus and Ganges are in Kashmir’s mountains. Water issues are a lot older than oil and gas concerns. Any sort of post-partition doctrine that moves away from Strategic Depth vis a vis Afghanistan, would define relations between India and Pakistan and would have to include and be based on a Kashmir settlement that is framed on water.