So, the market dropped again. As Calculated Risk notes, it's down 26.6% from last year's peak. There have been worse declines, but this is a big one. I would expect continued declines, though there will be good days as well as bad. Ironically, the decision to not allow shorting of key financial stocks unless the shorter owns the stock may increase volatility. Naked Shorts (people who sell a stock they don't have) provide support on the way down, since they have to buy the stock at some point to cover the sale they already made. Reducing shorting thus reduces price support and increases market volatility.
Commodities, including oil, continue to drop in price. Expect this to continue to occur. As Stirling Newberry comments, the problem with oil wasn't so much oil under supply, as dollar oversupply. While central banks are rushing huge amounts of money into the economy, even larger amounts of leveraged money are being destroyed. That is drying up the money for the really huge speculative bets we've been seeing. (None of this obviates the fact that actual physical oil supply is still tight.)
The US's monetary base, which is based on real estate, is imploding. The pyramid on top of it, built with highly leveraged borrowed money, is also being destroyed.
However, because there is a real oil bottleneck, and because real demand is growing faster than real supply, don't expect this drop in commodity prices and the resultant drop in inflation to last.
But the real important thing to keep an eye on in the short to medium term is not the stock market, it's currency and debt markets. There's currently a flight to "safety" with credit drying up for everybody but governments (even banks are not lending to each other), but really, how safe is anything denominated in US dollars? If you were a foreigner, would you be real easy buying more dollar denominated assets, or even Treasuries? Sure, the government can always come up with more, but how much are they going to be worth? Heck, even if you are an American, and pay for everything in US dollars, doesn't the way the dollar keeps dropping make you queasy?
And if you're foreign governments, owning trillions of dollars and dollar denominated paper, do you want to keep adding to that when the prospects for the economy and the dollar look really bad? Really, really bad? And when the paper you bought, all that mortgage backed junk, is looking like toilet paper? Yes, you don't want the US economy to really crackup, because who'll buy your lousy manufactured goods then? But, how much is it worth you, how much bad money after good, to keep the US from cracking up? And do you think it'll stop the crackup anyway?
Remember, also that China has to print Yuan to buy dollars. And Chinese inflation in coastal areas, according to friends, is running 15% to 20%. Think about that. That's a direct cost of supporting the dollar. And Chinese retail sales are doing pretty well, which means that they might think "this is the time to make the switch to an internal consumer economy, rather than a mercantilist exporting economy."
So the question I ask is this: will the Chinese and other large holders of US dollars and US dollar denominated assets decide to get out? They've been slowly trying to reduce exposure for years, not wanting to cause a panic. But if you're in a crowded theater and someone shouts fire, well, leaping for the door first may be your only chance.
Less catastrophically, but still bad, is the scenario where foreigners start demanding much higher interest rates. "The US is a risk. I'm not lending it money unless I get a risk premium." In such a case, the Fed would have to increase interest rates substantially to keep financing going. 10% or more isn't out of the question. Doing so, however, would completely steamroll the economy.
And that's why AIG, Freddie and Fannie all got bailed out. China holds a ton of mortgage backed securities. AIG insures many of them. Freddie and Fannie guarantee many of them. Failing to bail those firms out, failing to guarantee that paper, meant that China would be stuck with cents on the dollar. And after taking a loss like that, they might not be willing to keep extending the US what amounts to loans. And if that happens, the dollar crashes, or interest rates have to go through the roof.
And that's the barrel of the gun that Bernanke and Paulson are looking down.
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Ian, your fundamentals are looking strong!
Hi Ian, thank you so much for this. I’d been wondering what China was going to do. I notice that they are interested in resources, they’ve tried to buy a few Cdn mining co’s in the past. Any chance they can trade bad paper for good hard raw materials?
And that’s why AIG, Freddie and Fannie all got bailed out. China holds a ton of mortgage backed securities. AIG insures many of them. Freddie and Fannie guarantee many of them. Failing to bail those firms out, failing to guarantee that paper, meant that China would be stuck with cents on the dollar.
Thanks, Georgie.
I love my new job - working for the Chinese government.
kind sucks, though, that my only perk is a reduced rate on the Chinese lunch buffet….
hmm, this is a metric I had not considered;
I was calcualting that when all the debt the president amassed was claimed, our money would become too abundant and the dollar would collapse
I had not realized there were no “dollars”, it was all make believe money devined from whole cloth so to speak
so then what about the m3 not being reported anymore?
I was under the impression this is because we didn’t want people to see just how many dollars were being printed
also, what if we allowed those who sold debt to simply go out of business, wouldn’t the people carrying that debt simply aquire the asset they bought?
I think that could be a method we should threaten to use that would insure home owners didn’t lose that home
The US dollar devaluing can boost foreign investment. Cheaper dollars means their Reminbi or Yen goes farther in buying US assets or productive capacity. It also means nominal income in the US will have less purchasing power.
Further dollar depreciation is going to happen. The only real question is if the devaluation will be slow and orderly or a panic that causes more disruption than we’ve seen thus far. A good part of the nationalization policy the Treasury is following is to keep the full blown panic from occurring.
With devaluation oil will go back up in price. $200-250 a barrel is coming before long, both due to devaluation and lack of supply growth in the face of continuing demand growth.
And it’s not just China holding real estate paper,etc. Some facts to add to the pondering:
“The Fed needs to regain control of its balance sheet. They don’t have enough SOMA holdings to sterilize the money they’re pumping into the system, and the target rate’s becoming unsustainable,” said Dominic Konstam, head of rates strategy at Credit Suisse.(Target rate is the overnight rate the Fed sets for loans among banks)
The move brings the total tab for U.S. government rescues to more than $900 billion.
“Tax cuts alone account for 42 percent of the budgetary deterioration for 2009 that stems from policymakers’ actions since 2001. Increases in military and other security programs account for another 39 percent. Combined, these two factors account for 82 percent of the budget decline that is due to policy actions.”
So one really has to wonder about Obama’s statement that he “would delay rescinding President Bush’s tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy.”
Ian, I’ll put my money on “Less catastrophically, but still bad, is the scenario where foreigners start demanding much higher interest rates. “The US is a risk. I’m not lending it money unless I get a risk premium.” In such a case, the Fed would have to increase interest rates substantially to keep financing going. 10% or more isn’t out of the question. Doing so, however, would completely steamroll the economy.”
When one looks at what has passed into law by this Congress in addressing the fiscal issues coming due, such hasn’t really helped the average American and the disdain will only subside when American’s take to the streets. Perhaps a national night where everyone at a certain time leans out of their windows/doors and screams as loud as they can ‘I’m mad and I’m not going to take it anymore !” ?
Anybody seen that horror movie, I.O.U.S.A. ?
Got to go deconstruct the gold spike … v. strange.
Buy used RVs to live in because All of us are going to be latter-day Tom Joads in a few years.
Thanks for mentioning the value of shorting. In markets where retail shorting isn’t allowed, only the big brokers can participate in a declining market, while the small traders just watch their accounts drop or stand aside. I’m also worried that the small commodities traders will be targeted - sure, there are problems with big speculators driving markets to extremes, but don’t blame the little guy who just wants to participate in a market move. As they say, we just provide the liquidity so the markets can move smoothly.
Chinese demand for raw materials helps support commodities producers. Not just in Canada but anywhere.
Yeah, the argument has always been between inflation and deflation. The monetary base is collapsing and so is the pyramid, and it’s hard to tell where things will land. But bear in mind that “stratosphere” money - stuff high in the inverse pyramid, heavily leveraged, is not money that used to have very much to do with the day-to-day prices of goods. That changed in the 00’s when it got piled into bubbles that had real effects (housing, and arguably, comoddities esp. oil this last year.) The effect of losing that money, however, because it was underwritten by banks and so on, is that you lose also lending for real businesses and consumers, which is drying up and that traders/investors have less money to use on big bets/bubbles, etc…
Credit contraction leads to real demand contraction. Add that deflation of bubbles, and you have some nice price drops. Add that to the fact that the US’s real monetary base (collateral, mostly housing) is declining, and there’s fear of deflation.
Though, already we have had inflation in some areas, deflation in others.
I expect that asset value deflation will be remedied by inflation–not a good outcome, not a prudent outcome, but for politicians, splitting the dollar 2-1 means the Chinese get shafted and the US pays for the past 8 years of partying by not being able to get a loan on terms better than those offered to Chile.
It can boost foreign investment if there’s anything they want to invest in. What would that be? If you had a trillion dollars, what would you buy that you think would more than hold it’s value, taking into account the opportunity cost of investing somewhere other than the US?
More important is it makes US exports more competitive and makes imports more expensive, pushing the US balance of payments back towards something more reasonable.
But this is going to be a huge haircut on standards of livings. I don’t think people really get that yet.
Ian - Could we suspend the Stock Markets for a week - restore Integrity to the System and its Products, Services and Controls - and Pull this out of the Fire?
Can We Take Our Medicine Now, no matter how bitter, and Save the Day - or does this Rotted-From-the-Inside Shell of an Un-Regulated Greed Market have to Collapse before a Re-build?
Is it possible to ‘isolate’ the Junk Cancer and Save the Body of Our Economic System?
And Gold, with its biggest rise in over a decade, jumped +$80. Per Reuters:
(My Bold)
Note to self - when smiling, try not to let your teeth show.
Just kidding, no gold here. *g*
The treasury is now selling paper for the Fed, in order to allow the Fed to increase it’s balance sheet size.
And yeah, Obama’s tax cut nonsense is nonsense. If he actually follows through, it’ll be a big mistake.
here is a case in point, my company buys product from canada, I am paying an exhorbitant exchange rate, even though they have not raised the price of goods I am paying more for them anyway
and locals don’t want to spend their money, therefore, I am paying more for raw materials and forced to charge less for final product
in an industry where we could barely keep our head above water due to competitive pricing, now we are operating at a loss even though our dollar volume is the same or higher
we will be out of business next year if there is no turn around
You could suspend markets, but foreign ones would still run. It might do some good, but what is the government going to do in the meantime? When FDR did the equivalent (banks) he had a plan to really restore confidence by taking concrete steps.
Manufacture locally, with lower costs.
But yes, that’s not a solution for you personally, odds are.
And we Canadians are not happy about this either. You go out of business, that Canadian business loses a customer, despite the fact that it has never raised prices, due to changes in the dollar that are in no way it’s fault.
Something else worth noting - while oil is under $100 now ($91 today?) in only first rose above $100 around new years day 2008. Oil today is more expensive than oil on 10/19/2007 (it set a new record that date).
What is likely to spark a drop in the dollar when will this happen and how much will it drop?
Crooks belong in Jail. The fact is if you steal a million dollars you stand less chance of going to jail than if you smoke a joint. You reap what you sew, or not? Irrational law enforcement or not? Who gets hurt? I’m insane or so they say. I’m a loser, sorry all you people losing a fortune if I cackle uproariously but it’s funny. The United States is country where the rule of law has become a bad joke. Too bad the jokes on us.
Absolutely this means a lower standard of living. Heckuva job Alan!
Yes, the question is if it will keep falling. My guess is it settles somewhat lower than this.
wow ian, right on the money, my supplier actually had this conversation with me before the season;
“perris, we are going to do something unheard of for you, we are not going to raise prices this year for your company
[me] wow!!!that’s great!
[supplier] you don’t understand, I am doing this for us, I believe the excange rate is going to put you out of business anyway, even though I am charging you the same prices, you will be paying much more then any increase I had in mind”
ian, you hit the nail on the head
what would happen if obama simply brought back the pre-reagan tax code?
he could pull this off with the right promo;
“contrary to propaganda, reagan did not lower taxes, he was responsible for the highest tax increase or all peacetime presidents before him
what he did do is take the burden from the wealthy and move it to the middle class, that is redistributing middle class wealth and giving it to the rich
we will reduce taxes back to the rate before reagan raised those taxes”
man, that would be a wonder to see…like the cubs winning teh series or something
“But this is going to be a huge haircut on standards of livings. I don’t think people really get that yet.” —-you nailed it; people ‘want to believe’ even if the facts rebut their reality completely. You see it in this years politics.
Jane you go girl. http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/14465
It will be interesting to see what Russia does after shutting down it’s markets.
Don’t know. Two scenarios:
a) private investor panic to get out. Hard to say what would trigger it.
b) government decision by any of a number of govs with huge dollar denominated asset reserves to get out. They’d have to decide that they’re borked anyway, and that they may as well stampede for the door and get their cents on the dollar. This is why it hasn’t happened already. They’d all like out, but they know it’s a crowded theater with one exit, and that when you scream fire, you’ll get trampled. So they’ve all been easing towards the exit and trying to reduce their relative (and sometimes absolute) exposure.
But what will trigger that scream of “Fire!” I don’t know. Hopefully nothing.
But that may not matter. Folks forget that there were rallies in the market and the economy after 29. It wasn’t a cliff, it was a couple years before people were really sure it was serious and not gong away easily.
As the economy deflates… it becomes increasingly clear that psychology plays a major role, if not the key role in the economy’s performance. When the bubble is inflating, every move turns to gold, they make up “instruments” to trade and print money and make oddles of it. The pushers are the dude of wall street who trade in made up perceptions much more than “fundamentals”. How they could have even allowed derivatives to get so out of hand is criminal.
Why don’t any of these “creators” of these products face some jail time for RICO or some other criminal statutue? Why bail out? Why not send some of these creeps to jail and cease their ill gotten wealth.
Larry Kudlow?
Their markets are, as a friend called them, “a gambling hall with oil chips”. Most Russians are not effected by what happens in them, they aren’t involved. US markets are integrated into civic budgets, pensions, IRAs, and so on. The impact is much more widespread.
The only good thing about this is that it might lead to throwing the robber barons out. But it might be too little, too late.
Dollar dumping on the way and oil will be taken off the dollar. Dollars are dropping like a lead sinker.
Why isn’t he suggesting this now?
the robber barons have to be imasculated, their assets seized and redistributed, inherited wealth is not in the best interest of this country, I say inherited wealth shoudl be taxed to last for two generations, three at the most
the descendants have to produce themselves, they will ahve a head start with those assets but they should not be allowed to do nothing and maintain wealth, everyone must contribute, no royalty in this land
Tweety actually made sense today when he asked why the President isn’t on the TeeVee at 9pm talking to and assuring the people.Of course, Bush is incapable of assuring anyone.
I believe he does not have the nerve, he will unleash the wrath of all wealth combined if he tried, but I would love to see it
From my earlier post “Increases in military and other security programs account for another 39 percent.” —-And what just happens?
“Senate passes $612 billion defense spending bill”
“As passed by the Senate on an 88-8 vote, the bill would authorize $103.9 billion for Pentagon procurement, $1.2 billion more than President George W. Bush’s request. Overall, Bush had asked for $611.1 billion for national defense.”
Sheesh.
Anybody know who tossed Palin that softball question in the coffee shop that she totally mangled today? [but now the McCain camp can claim, yes, she does too talk to reporters….]
I think that really wasn’t fair, nobody respects anything the president says and this country would believe the oposite
he might have been best to keep his trap shut, he is like krystol, if they say it, go the other way
Audio-animatronic Bush does not do assuring.
[h/t to the commenter on an earlier thread who dubbed him thus]
Someone has got to do an ad juxtaposing the Decider and the Deregulator.
Tweety made sense things are bad, very bad
“It wasn’t a cliff, it was a couple years before people were really sure it was serious and not gong away easily.”; thanks for pointing this out as I’m sure most people don’t realize the real history of the depression and FDR’s actions.
Aren’t we always jumpin up and down about how great the unions are:
The reason I’ll be voting for Obama is when he is in office, we won’t request tax cuts, because he is smart enough to realize that we can’t do it. He is also a smart enough politician to know that he can’t say that before January. McCain on the other hand is not smart enough and probably would do tax cuts.
Yup, the point should have been that we have no leadership that we have confidence in.
must to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhqKoqqS0XI
And have we all seen the Harpers Bazaar picture of Laura Bush with her familiar reading the witchcraft of Harry Potter…Chamber of Secrets…too…hey wait a minute. Maybe the Bushies really are all a satanic cult secretly laughing at us…. /s
Doesn’t sound like a union problem…it sounds like a criminal problem. Isn’t the union the one making the accusation?
I’m with Tom Friedman Energy Taxes jack em up and give it to the poor get the economy moving for real in a positive way we’ve had enough trickle down.
I don’t trust any of them.
Happens in every organization. In a corporation they just fire you quietly, or pay you to go away. SEIU is handling it openly. Can’t say I’m too down on them for it.
Put the poor to work building energy efficient homes(passive solar) and mass transit outlaw new roads unless absolutely necessary.
we have new industry that will drive our economy, the industry of cooling the planet, alternizing energy.
the middle class can be born again, BUT the wealth that was stolen from us with the reagan tax increases need to be returned
Nah, me either…but nothing is immune from being infiltrated and used badly (ask Cindy McCain’s former charity)by ill-meaning people. I just wanted to differentiate between a structural problem with the union, and the theft of a criminal. If he hadn’t been ripping off the union, it would have been something else. Can’t really blame the union for that…but, no, I don’t really trust ‘em either. Of course, I’ve lived in FL my entire life, so I’ve been force-fed union-hatred for my entire life.
off to bed, probaly won’t be able to sleep and will rivisit, but must make the attempt to close these weary eyes
nite all
Ian,
Normally I let typos slide but this one’s a doozy -
Hate to be pedantic, but if you owe trillions in dollars then the dollar sliding is a good thing. I think you meant to say “owning”. Other than that, another great post about a very ugly issue…
‘night, Perris.
oh, oops. Thanks for the catch.
I agree that tight money is wringing some speculation out of the oil markets. I would still note that oil is trading at about twice what it should be: $45-$50 (based on a $32/bbl price when Bush came into office plus a generous 50% devaluation in the dollar).
The problem is that the markets aren’t really working through their losses. Bernanke and Paulson keep backstopping them. Yes, they have taken over the biggest players and wiped out most shareholders but most of their debt/losses wasn’t in the share price but in the paper these companies were holding and taxpayers have been left holding the bag on a lot of that. What should have happened is that this bad debt should have been split up among homeowners, banks, mortgage firms, Fannie, Freddie, AIG, etc., the investment banks, and the institutional/national wealth/hedge/retirement funds, etc. This is not happening in any coherent fashion. There is plenty of debt to go around and taxpayers as I said should not be left socializing the losses.
sleep tight, thanks for the great vidlink!
Every time a government starts printing money, there is a revolution in that government. Every time. And Paulson started printing money today.
Bernanke was ordered to bail out AIG and others by the real owners of the Federal Reserve Banking system — by European central bankers. CNBC economist Liesman confirmed that Bernanke spent much of Monday on the phone with European central bankers deciding what to sell.
So, you may well ask, who are these foreign central bankers that are out to destroy America? Well, look no further than our present Shadow Government, the folks who really own our media, banking system, and government.
For it is they who would install the New World Order.
“I saw this problem coming over a decade ago and I know how to solve it but first you have to elect me.” — John McCain
JHK:
” So, as our industrial base waned, and our factories got old and brittle, and our labor force was steeply under-bid by cheaper labor forces, we embarked on a quest for “the new economy.” This was represented in successive turns as the information economy, the consumer economy, the high-tech economy, et cetera. They were all ruses, aimed at concealing the truth — which was that we had become a society no longer producing things of value, no longer generating real wealth. The final act of this farce has been the so-called “financial industry.”
That “industry” turned out to be most earnestly devoted to the production of complex swindles. They were so finely engineered that it took twenty years for the swindles to stand revealed, and they were cleverly hitched to the primary thing that the American public vested its identity in: house-and-home. Thus, much of the public finds itself in very real danger of becoming homeless and broke.
We generally recognize that some wicked-massive transfer of wealth occurred in the process of the mortgage fiasco, but it remains to be seen whether any residue of this wealth can actually be retained, as represented by currencies, contracts, and supposed securities. The wholesale settling of debt now underway may leave an awful lot of this stuff with no value.”
How about:
“identify the Republican Party by its new brand-name: the party that wrecked America”
Thanks Ian. You have a great gift for making the complex comprehensible.
OT & didn’t read comments, but if you aren’t aware, McCain made a major blunder putting Spain in the category of countries that the U.S. might consider liberating. TPM is all over this story. Here’s just one link.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/217710.php
But also check out the 2-3 other stories that precede that one.
His solution is Top Secrud.
Responding to post 13…can this be good?
I was listening to NPR a few days ago and a caller to the Diane Rehm show mentioned something which I hadn’t heard before, but which fits perfectly with my understanding of economics. She said someone had told her that in the financial business you could only make money if you could move it and we’re not moving money right now. Well, I think what we’re doing is slowing and shrinking the financials down to match the real world and when we start moving that (hopefully with the Green Revolution) the financials can move soundly.
So, I suggest it’s fundamentally the attack on unions (yep unions) and the industrial middle class in America, capped off by NAFTA & CAFTA, which are killing the real world economy (here in America) and undermining the financial side. In Russia and China and some other places the real world is zooming, but their financial side is distressed because it’s related to ours.
I can go into the politics involved, but everyone her already gets that it’s a political fight and Republicans have been trying to cut off moneys to Democratic campaign coffers by killing unions and the middle class.
The answer has to be a return to sound fundamentals (hear that John?), stronger unions and some regulation of markets to keep them from going crazy. Good foreign relations and better world trade would obviously help too. Nothing revolutionary there really, just a return to Sanity.
Republicans aren’t suggesting this or anything close to it.
Get the fundamentals right, grow the real world economy, let the financials follow and the world will begin to make better sense. All the small details will be entirely crazy up until they start making sense. It’s just the transition back to sanity which will be frightful and confusing.
Worried by all the strange upside-down economic signs? Of course. But, all we can do is keep pointing the way and hope somebody catches on and begins to follow good advice. Right now I think Bernanke and Paulson (thank God) have taken some good steps and can lead the way from where they sit. Senator Dodd & Rep. Frank did their part on Housing (and will have to do more). And, it’s just the Republicans standing in our way which prevents a lot more good stuff. We still need to get oil market regulations, fix a lot of infrastructure and all the obvious good things.
Simple really. :-)
Continental markets are emerging from the Multinational shitpile and the WTO and world bank loan to own policies.
Beneath that local economies are seeking autonomy over their future. Getting away from dependence to Independence.
Sustainability is a concept that is being advanced enormously. Live within your resources.
The entire past 30 years has sparked the drop in the dollar. What we need now is some fundamental growth, especially exporting, which will strengthen it a bit. If we could just level it off and work from there for a few years, then we should be alright. Of course, the size of our economy means that once we get things going the dollar won’t stay in place. It’s bound to go back up.
Yeah, the momentum is towards a falling dollar. How much further it might go is hard to say. Even as it’s dropping our export economy is picking up. If we can just get the other fundamentals from falling further apart we’ll be alright.
It just take the right political and business leadership.
Today, to maintain a decent standard of living for a family, you need at least 1.5 full-time full-pay jobs. In the late 1970s it only took 1.
In the summer of 1978 (I think it was) I was earning $15/hour for a part-time job. Who was better off, then or now? Of course, we have the iPod and some niftier gadgets since the microprocessor revolution.
A lot of it is the weight of having to constantly shell out a significant part of our economy to foreign oil sources. Fix that fundamental and we’ll be in much better shape.
How’s this sound: Tax wealth, not corporations (they’re not people anyway). Don’t tax the cost of living, just ‘profits’.
0% Corp tax rate (so they can get er done)
30-35% (or thereabouts) income tax rate for everybody (one rate)
$15,000 (or thereabouts) individual deduction for all filing returns
If he did that people would assume the opposite, that we were about to fall off a cliff. Well, we almost are, but there are some people fighting to keep us stable.
I think the Russians, and others, mostly need to hang on, play it safe, and hope we get Obama and start fixing problems quickly. If we fix our housing problems that will help a lot of people from UK to Espana to India to Russia.
Dugg it!
They hope to sell off AIG’s better assets (and there are many) and come out with a net that’s not too negative — liquidating the company over some time rather than letting it crash.
If done well it makes sense and I’m beginning to have more trust in Paulson to get it done right. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Didn’t Avery Burns once tell his flunky-boy to get a telex ready to go out on the next autogyro to Siam or something?
Even the Republicans wouldn’t go for such a rank tax plan.
(snark)
And, isn’t it really likely that the Chinese will loan us all the money that needed to rebuild our armed forces from the Iraq fiasco? I’m sure they’ll be all over that, aren’t you?
(/snark)
Perris, you and SanderO both have an uncontrollable and irrational rage on over either rich or wealth. Neither of you have ever presented your definition of either word. You both have become demagogues about the need to disenfranchise an nebulous economic strata. To do so, you will have to murder these people; they are not about to comply with your rage. If it is 1% of the population, your bloodbath will be over 3 millions (3.05 millions). If you extend your rage to 5%; fifteen and a quarter millions will perish. The problem is that you will have to eliminate their families as well, you cannot afford to have survivors. Now you are getting into the range of murders equal to the loss of life in the second world war. For what? Your and SanderO’s juvenile and sophomoric opinions?
It is highly evident from both your demagoguery that you have little other than jealousy to commend your position, neither of you have either fact or considered opinion to sustain your narrative. Neither of you have stated at which point your eliminations would cease. Yet for a wide spectrum of issues you spread your version of hate and propaganda, driving any chance of rational communications from the field. It is not a service that you do here, and the damage done to the discourse is enormous. It is in fact ignorance that you spread, to those whose educations have not allowed a working knowledge of economics and are in effect defenseless against your assertions. I for one am not impressed with your efforts at disinformation and pandering delusions of economic rectitude. Please stop.
ersatz edit: addendum
My guess would be there would be about 45% maybe more if those 15 millions that would agree with your position that there needs be a control over the economic process. These would be people in positions to do something about your concerns either directly or through their ability to influence. When you are going about threatening their interests and position with existential elimination, it will not be surprising that you get no support from those quarters. It seems you and SanderO had better go back and rethink your definitions of what “rich” and “wealth” are, and think again how best to approach your political goals.