Update: Ten of the world’s big banks have kicked in 70 billion into a liquidity fund, not to buy Lehman but to shore up the market tomorrow. 70 billion is still a lot of money, the market will probably make it through. If it doesn’t, flee for the hills.
Well, the big shit pile, as it is affectionately known, continues to hit the fan. It looks like Lehman Brothers has not found a buyer and will have to declare bankruptcy tonight. Merrill Lynch has reached an agreement to be bought by Bank of America for $29/share in stock, which is about 50% more than it’s current valued at, so it’s a good deal for Merrill, though I doubt BoA is going to be pleased with it in the long run.
Lehman going bankrupt means that its trades are going to have to be unwound. A lot of these are very long term, things like currency swaps, and the amounts of money involved in clearing them are going to be significant. Others of them are securitized assets such as mortgages which currently have no real market value.
It’s that market value folks need to be scared of. The banks and the remaining brokers have a lot of this toxic waste on their books, and they don’t have it on the books at market prices, because there is no market price. A market price is about to be created for a ton of it, as Lehman is forced to sell during its bankruptcy liquidation. That will force banks and brokerages and other holders of this crap (like municipalities, States and pension funds) to also have to value it. A lot of them are going to find out that they’re bankrupt. Merrill did the right thing selling itself while it still has value, because if Lehman goes down, in a couple months Merrill’s assets might be in the negatives.
Lehman itself wasn’t bought because as Peter Morici, among others, points out—it’s insolvent. The value of its assets is worth less than its liabilities. It’s worth negative money. The banks didn’t want to buy it because of this, unless the Feds were willing to pony up as they did with Stearns and make it worth their while. The Feds didn’t want to keep doing that because damn, they already own a huge chunk of this heaping pile after taking over Freddie and Fannie and giving the banks and brokerages access to Fed loans in exchange for crap collateral. Personally, I’m surprised they blinked. Once you’re pushing "owning" half the bad mortgages in the country, what’s a few more billion?
It seems to be about moral hazard more than an unwillingness to take on more public debt—they don’t want to bail Lehman, but they are increasing loan facilities which take on crappy securities. So Lehman is allowed to go under, but the Fed hopes that this buttress will damp down the storm. My guess: Paulson and Bernanke have stopped worrying about saving Republicans and started worrying about how they’ll go down in the history books if they keep treating this as "privatize the profits, socialize the losses."
However on Monday, even with the improved loan facility this is going to mean a run on the remaining brokerage houses and against any banks or other financial institutions which are considered weak. If the Feds are withdrawing their implicit promise to socialize all the losses of the last expansion, then no one knows anymore where the bottom is.
This is because of the joy of leverage in reverse. Because the companies involved were so heavily leveraged and because the securities are also so heavily leveraged, even small increases in default rates or small decreases in performance transalate into huge losses. If you’ve got 10:1 leverage, every dollar move against you is 10 bucks. If you’ve got 42:1, it’s $42. And some places have higher leverage event than that, before you add in the innate leverage in many of these securities.
When you don’t know where the bottom is, when you don’t even know how bad the potential losses are because you can’t evaluate the securities in question because underwriting standards were so low that you have no idea if AAA is really B or C, or toilet paper… you can’t make decisions of what companies or securities are worth. And if you don’t know that, you don’t know where the bottom is, even if you knew when the economy in general and the housing market in specific was going to turn around.
So unless the Feds blink before midnight, and I don’t think they will, tomorrow is going to be very interesting. Lehman won’t be the last major firm to go under. Next up appears to the be the insurer, AIG, which needs a capital infusion to survive. And there will be more, including some of the larger banks.
I don’t think anyone in the room, and the room is the world, is going to avoid getting hit by this crap in the months and years to come.
Oh, and those economic plans, including tax cut plans, that both candidates have? Forget them, they’re based on fantasies about what the economic situation is going to be. Revenues will be way down and the economy in the toilet. And I just don’t know how much more money the Chinese are going to be willing to lend the US on concessionary terms when US consumers aren’t buying their goods anyway.
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Ahhh, the sweet smell of corporate welfare in the morning!
What a great way that will be to start out our Monday!
I guess this is an important story….but I am much more interested in Morales rejection of the CIA, and now Ortega has jumped on board with Chavez and Correa of Honduras. Screw neo-liberalism, it may hurt us here but down south it kills.
Gotta admit I’m filled with schadenfreude. Saw a lot of stupid shit on Wall St. Nice to see they’re getting their nuts in a vice. Too bad it has macroeconomic consequences.
I won’t cry for any of them. But the executives will still walk away rich. I wish there was some way to take back all the bonuses they gave themselves when they were actually running the place into the ground.
Oh, don’t worry. It kills people up here too. And it’s going to kill a lot more.
Thanks for this, Ian. More to come, alas.
Yep. Would go a long way to make the future better if execs were held accountable. *slapping face* I’m dreaming.
Yeah, it kills everywhere…so much death for money /that filthy lucre of the swindle/ and where is the alternative? Is there a possible one?
We need Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Treasury.
All these other folks are a bunch of ‘dead-enders’.
Yes, I thought the likelihood of Lehman finding a buyer was highly doubtful, especially after, as you say, the government took over Fannie and Freddie.
My chief question is did Lehman have significant exposure in the derivatives markets like Bear Stearns did. That would complicate matters considerably. The Asian markets are mixed so they don’t appear to affected by the news, yet. I don’t follow the stock market closely but I can’t see a Lehman bankruptcy being taken as good news, especially with the jitters it portends for other investment banks.
I think whoever came up with the bright idea of buying Merrill Lynch at BoA should be fired.
As someone whose job will end Oct 24, I can tell you I won’t be buying much from CHina or anyplace else. If we BOTH lose our jobs (fairly likely), we’re going to buy an RV to live in because that’s cheaper than paying rent, even if we have 1/5 the square footage. We’ll be leaving the area we live now, I can promise you.
If I had the skillset to emigrate to New Zealand, I’d be gone in 60 seconds.
Ian, have you heard anything about EdwardJones?
From your link:
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes……rotection/
This sounds like the Fed is still willing to eat a lot of Lehman’s crap.
I was going to cal AIG about switching my auto insurance this week, however that just got crossed off my to do list, and the offer is going to recycle bin.
I’m thinkin’ that my money would be better off in my sock drawer if ya know what I mean…
I was going to ask the question, before I read your #4, if there was any way that shareholder lawsuits could take away every penny “earned” by the CEOs and Board members.
Why is this not possible? Seems to me the culprits should be bankrupted and have every asset seized.
Wouldn’t pay back what they’ve lost for the shareholders, but could discourage future robber barons.
Any way to get these bastards?
Ian, looks like we get our wish: we get to find out what happens when a really big player goes down. The NYT said that the FRB and the Treasury have had people in Lehman looking at its books, so we can start with the proposition that they believe that the system can weather the storm, including the credit swaps. There isn’t any reason for the taxpayer to guarantee anything. The assets of Lehman will go as far as they do, and the denizens of the street can eat their losses.
These Wall Street entities try to make money by manipulating money and securities. People who invest in investment banks are trying to make money off people who buy, sell, trade and hold financial instruments. The entities lost money, gambling they could make leverage work for them. Their investors should lose too.
Anyone see the latest Krugman blog? Apparently they blinked already. Lehman’s going down but the fed will “accept lower value assets.” More Moral hazard stuff but just under the radar so people don’t complain toooo much about the socialized risk.
oh man you beat me! Yep :’(
Lehman, Bear Stearns out Merill Lynch soon to be out…who is left and who is likely to be next how many have to fall before the business press says the words Domino?
The Wall Street geniuses thought there was no end to the pot of gold at the end of their paper rainbow. Watching the market tomorrow is going to be interesting, to say the least. I hope ADM, Monsanto and Dow are heavily invested in the big shitpile.
Can we see the beginnings of local industry taking root in the near future?
We need Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Treasury.
What for? looks like everything’s already blown up….
Breach of Fiducary Responsibility.
Easy to prove. Starting with Greenspan.
Very big into swaps, I believe.
From the FRB:
At Calculated Risk there was concern that the Fed would take equities, but that isn’t so. Instead, we are going to rely on the rating agencies to make sure we only get “investment-grade debt securities.”
Well, Ian, you said it a long time ago…the market will crash in September. Some day you’ll have to tell us how you came up with this month. Kudos.
Good work if you can get it… and you are morally (among other things) bankrupt.
Starting with Greenspan.
funny, I was just about to say “Bring me the head of Alan Greenspan” (figuratively, mods).
Should b interesting watching Mrs. Greenspan reporting all of this tomorrow….
I left this on another of your posts earlier today. It was OT there. Not so much here:
“OT
Hi Ian!
Don’t know if you’re around. This is way off-topic, but Sean Paul posed an economics question to Stirling, Numerian, and you (if you were around):
“A Question For Stirling and Numerian and Ian, If He’s Around”
Stirling and Numerian have already weighed in a bit. I’d love to hear your commentary.
Thanks,
Eric
p.s. I hope that I’m not violating any web conventions by posting this.”
Not specifically from Lehman. Lehman will go under, they will accept more of that crap from everyone else. It’s an attempt to assure the markets that even though they’re letting Lehman go under, they are still backstopping the overall market.
I’ve saved this link for a few months and I think this is confirmation
How’s this for schadenfreude:
He is the son of Constance Rogers Roosevelt and Mr. Roosevelt IV of Brooklyn. His mother is a freelance writer on the subjects of endangered primate species and eco-tourism….His father is a managing director and investment banker at Lehman Brothers in Manhattan; he is also the chairman of the firm’s council on climate change.
It hasn’t crashed yet. It still may not. We’ll see. The market is so manipulated now that you just never really know.
I wish there was some way to take back all the bonuses they gave themselves when they were actually running the place into the ground.
Class-action shareholder derivative suits?
I left a note there not 20 minutes ago Eric.
I guess if I was a lawyer I’d be filing tons of class action lawsuits (like all the asbestos ambulance chasers that advertise on cable.)
But is there any chance of success?
My credit union folks tell me we are not to worry. Know anything about whether that’s true? Are credit unions in better shape than banks?
Ian, have you heard anything about EdwardJones? I realize that it is pretty small compared to some of these outfits – but that makes me wonder if it is in as much trouble or less so because of scale?
What happens if the FED stops backstopping the market?
I haven’t, but I’m not really plugged in.
Often the good go down with the bad.
Thanks Ian!!! It doesn’t appear to have surfaced yet, but I’m sure that it will.
In the same series of articles is a very dangerous item. AIG is foundering as well. Without insurance for bonds the China Syndrome is in play. I think the Masters of the Universe are more worried about that than the big banks.
Credit unions can have problems. It depends on the credit union.
Do you have money invested with them is that why you are worried are are you invested in them?
My daughter works for a credit union and they have laid people off and her work time has been cut to 2 days a week.
And insurance companies that are smart should be much more stable. It takes a special kind of stupid to screw them up.
So just how can we make sure that Bush gets all the credit for the economy that he deserves do the FEDS have any idea how much this debt is valued at?
i worry about my calpers pension and its investments…
Well front page NYT right now AIG begging for emergency 40 billion to stay alive…
I’m having trouble understanding what this means or if it is even possible. From where I’m sitting the Fed and Treasury have been attempting to backstop markets for over a year now, and all I see is a series of failures to do so, and bigger and bigger amounts of taxpayers’ money shelled out or promised.
http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
Lehman is just one more victim of the Ponzi scheme known as the mortgage crisis. I’ve been blogging this for months and fortold the failure of Lehman back in early June when the Wall Street Journal was doing such an in-depth report on the company. All they could talk about was how pretty Erin Callan was and what a straight shooter she was. What a joke.
twocanpete, didja know you can add your blog’s url to your profile – that will change your name from black to blue and people will know to click your name to find your blog
Beggin Strips.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvxgM3lr-mg
Why is BOA buying Merill at 50% more of their stock price? 5, 10% more maybe but 50% is someone important being protected from loss?
http://online.wsj.com/article/…..oomia_si=1
You don’t think Jeb was dumb enough to get paid in stock options instead of cash?
Is bond insurance instability vital enough to cause really big players to start cashing out of gov’t bonds?
And Washington Mutual…if they start closing up shop we’ll see real panic in the streets!
I have a tiny cash account there – but my best friend is a broker and I’m more worried about her job.
No kidding. You have to be an absolute idiot to screw up an insurance company. This is an industry which for decades has played host to the third-generation sons of the less bright scions of the founders of the companies.
That worked out well.
Can the auto-makers be far behind? I’ve heard that Ford is pretty much banking on a bail-out too. Surely there’s a limit to bail money?
Explain this, please.
I’m waiting for another WaPo column by Donald Luskin telling everyone that everything is just peachy.
If they hadn’t been, it would have cracked up spectacularly long ago. What they’re trying to do is hold it together until the economy gets better and things can be unwound.
I swear to Gahd, these dudes are aspiring to be Chamberlin.
Most of the big Asian markets are closed for holidays Monday. The ones to watch (before ours of course) are Europe after about 3am ET and the index futures markets. U.S futures traders aren’t exactly revelling in the resolved uncertainties of this deal, though on the other hand it’s no worse than some days we’ve already seen.
(Note: Only the lines with times, rather than dates, are being updated currently.)
Many of them are legally required only to buy AAA bonds. The insurance makes many bonds AAA. I don’t know how much AIG is involved in that business, however, I thought it was a fairly specialized business.
Many bond buyers insure their purchases, especially ones w/non sterling ratings. If the insurer is about to collapse they are very vulnerable and will dump. What they will dump is government debt from Wasila to Wash DC…all those “deficits” become very real.
Next up, Washington Mutual?
Ian, a note on the additional wrinkles a WaMu failure would introduce, and therefore be different than Lehman or Merrill would be helpful.
hey Suz,
believe, but you can check yourself, CALPERS had institutional limits on the percentage footprint of any one investment in their portfolio pkg – checked that a year ago, believe it was 3.3% – gonna double check to see if I can find link,
unfortunately, per Ian’s note above on leverage ratios, 3.3% of the portfolio taking a 10:1 or higher hit would still be bad, but hopefully not as catastrophic as it will be for other institutional investors
Tell her to start cutting back on expenses and saving money just in case.
jayt- Yep…the big players in the auto-finance market are also under considerable pressure. GMTC has been sucking like a lungfish in a drought because people are not buying US cars…and the fact that they financed unreliable buyers at predatory rates. Lots of repos…but they can’t sell ‘em.
Here’s the interesting thing about WashMu…it was created from the ashes of all those banks that collapsed during the McCain-Keating Five S&L fiasco of the early 1990’s.
http://www.latimes.com/busines…..7032.story
WAMU is in serious trouble. I give them six months.
Has anyone else thought about buying a used RV to live in when we’re all put on the street because no one will have a job?
I mean, you’ll need a solar panel to charge the batteries but at least you have a roof when it rains and walls when the wind blows.
Anyone else thought about that? I believe Great Depression II is about a year away. ESPECIALLY if McClusterfuck and his bim are elected.
yeah – its just a question of how many investments end up leveraged… for example, if calpers was invested in both freddies, lehman, aig, wamu and thoes failures yet to come…
Yep where ever a Bush is involved the insiders get paid and the tax payers pay.
You can’t call this assemblage of ad hoc, piecemeal, half-assed efforts a policy. If Paulson and Bernanke were interested in holding the system together they would be doing deep and major reforms and a lot of re-regulating. This is about kicking the can down the road to the next Administration doing nothing to really fix things in the meantime.
I dont either, I got the impression they had some exposure because the Times was tying the stories together. If it’s not insuring investments how the F did they get ruined in the sweetest racket of them all?
I’ll see if I can whip one up.
Wow. Any way to turn that into a 30-second ad? Priceless!
Bottom, sir? Whatever are you speaking of? There is no bottom to the big shit pile, it just goes on forever. Time to strap in and put on your crash helmet, because this is going to get real ugly real fast. Good thing I never had any intention of retiring, because I am pretty sure I can kiss my pension fund goodbye.
There will be more and more bank failures each week. We are seeing the house of cards collapse.
Real estate has not seen the bottom yet. It’s probably got another 10-20% to lose in value and that is gonna make a lot of people upside down.
The odd thing is that this is not turning the people out in the streets up in arms against the corporations and banks who have done this to the economy. They turned an economy of work into one of gambling with financial “instruments”. No underlying value. So much more fun to make deals than actually work for a buck… ha?
Next WAMU and CitiBank is also in deep doo.
I can’t imagine why any “rating service” is in business as they have been proven to make the appraisals/rating up out of whole clothe. Ain’t that fraud?
You assume a far higher level of competence and non-ideological thinking to them than I do. The sort of systemic reforms required would be anathema to them. They are doing what they think will work. In particular, a lot of this stuff is what Bernanke said needed to have been done in the 20’s and 30’s by the Fed.
No, this is their plan, sorry.
Never assume Bush administration competence.
The “equities” thing is spreading like wildfire, though I don’t see any explicity use of the term in the Fed’s own release.
However, there’s some talk there that’s impenetrable to me about rules on three-party repo transactions; have they allowed equities in those transactions, and is the news that now that permission is being extended to the PDCF and TSLF? (Anybody who can parse this stuff at such an hour) So far I haven’t found anything at the site that gives repo rules.
They can’t do that, because it goes against everything Bush stands for (millenial incompetence mostly) and he won’t let them do what needs done.
I think real estate will lose another 50-60 percent before it hits bottom. It’s going to be as bad as the 1930s.
sorry hit the wrong button anyway all these companies need cash but why aren’t the hedge funds failing yet I thought they borrowed money from the banks with leverage to buy these crap housing loans?
Re AIG
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes……ex.html?hp
I go back to the original question..what has to happen for the whole thing to suck into the abyss?
Ah, but you are mistaken. It is the height of competence for the neo-cons. They keep telling everyone that ‘the gov’mint doesn’t work’ and then they get elected/appointed and then they get busy and prove it.
Hmmm. I didn’t make the swap as insurance connection. I wonder if that’s just one way of doing it or if it’s the standard now. I though they did more traditional bond insurnace for most of them, but I sure could be wrong.
This is one of the main problems with the markets, they’ve become so impenetrable even to people who are educated in them.
I think we are going to find out this week.
Most of the banks, investment firms, hedge funds and so forth trade useless “paper” and are insolvent.
The more they government bails out this frauds the lower goes the dollar. You can print money and give it to this schmucks without tanking the dollar and causing inflation and asset devaluation.
Get your wheel barrows greased… you will need one to buy a loaf of bread.
What would Palin do? She has executive experience? And her mate, didn’t he do some edjmecating on the keating 5 thingy?
It is also why they will likely fail in holding the financial system together and cost us all a lot in the process.
The LA Times article said that WashMu stock was $45 last Fall…it’s now at $2.75 and has lost 37% of its value in the last week. They were talking about selling branches in NY and Ohio…but that’s a pittance of what they need to do. It’s a huge network, mainly out here in the West (HQ in Seattle)…CA, NV, ORE, WA, AZ, Utah…I always wondered about them. They seemed to be a sort of McBank or Star”Bucks” popping up everywhere.
And thats why it got as much space as the bank debacle. I personally think AIG is more dangerous than all the banks.
Ian!! Will the markets take a 2-3% drop tommorrow oe is your chrystal ball in the shop? This market is driven by psychology more tham sound fundamentals.
Can I get wi-fi in my tent?
Well, the money-pundits have been telling us for the last few years that we were moving into a ‘cash-less’ society. Plastic for everything. Ha!
We are headed back fast into the cash-only economy.
By the way – does everyone know about the little gem that was slipped into the ‘bankruptcy relief’ bill?
All credit card transactions will be sent to the IRS beginning January 1, 2009.
Good time to go back to cash!
Insuring such things is pure fraud. AIG execs and managers and the rest of these “insurers” need to doin some jail time. Take them off the street.
Arent they huge in credit cards as well?
Let the markets decide!
-G
My guess the Dollar drops in value like the Peso did. Interest rates go up a lot a few more banks fail companies that need cheap loans or a good economy go under or pile on debt.
America will beg for foreign investment China will offer us cash for Taiwan. I’m sure others here can provide much more detail than I can.
Yes but no electricity…
Really who cares about the market? The value of stocks are completely made up and determined by psychology.
How can a firm like Bear or Lehman which is nothing more than a bunch of desks and computers value itself in the billions? They HAVE NOTHING of value to sell. They create NOTHING. They make money selling “paper”.
I’m interested in local gov’t. If bonds are trashed, so will many towns budgets. There could be some reckonings.. say a town in Alaska of 6K and 22 million debt. dividing that among taxpayers…ugh.
Perhaps I mis-spoke. I am now thinking that cash isn’t what it used to be, so barter – here we come!
((( Ian )))
Can’t wait for this election to be over on Oct. 14th … watching the Liberals wander around in mind numbing stupor is depressing …
A little Birdy told me that Goldman Sachs also owes more than it’s assets, is that true ? Will that be the next one to fall after Lehman ?
The ones that McCain & Graham shop at ? *g*
I knew your intent..LOL I have a shiny rock and a squirrel pelt?
It was certainly greed. They could make more this way than using more traditional and safer instruments. The buyers wanted to eliminate their moral hazard, and companies like AIG thought there was no moral hazard. So for them it was like taking free money, except they were wrong.
I agree!
I understand the reason why the GDP is still in ‘positive growth’ even though we are actually in a recession is because of all the money changing hands at those ‘title/cash’ and post-dated check cashing outfits!
Nothing like taking money from people who can ill afford it and charging 600% interest and that’s what is driving the entire economy right now.
Wall Street Investment Banks are a gigantic Pyramid scheme. The last buyers take the loss this will be USA raxpayers. Free market is Fraud Markets caveat emptor.
We are so screwed! Wall street itself is a giant Casino!
People have been sold a bill of goods with fractional lending and banking as we know it. It was destined to collapse because it is a house of cards held together by winks and BS.
As you can see when one of the nodes (banks…) goes to hell, it takes the whole thing with it.
Debt is note something to value and show on your books as an asset. Americans have bought into the idea that a credit rating is something good to have… how much debt you can handle. They even look at your driving record to determine your credit rating. Is this insane? YES!
About those revised GDP numbers.
Number crunchers say the numbers don’t ad up.
Bush’s Government may be in freefall.
-G
“Since we adopted the leaf as legal tender…”
I could make you a slipper out of the squirrel pelt and you could give me the shiny rock…
Are maple leafs worth more than birch leafs?
The international central bankers, including the US Federal Reserve, have looted our country long enough.
We must close down the FED and take back control of our money supply.
Thereafter, we will pay NO interest on borrowed monies and cut taxes into the bargain.
This action is a No-Brainer.
Yes, this is the greater fool theory of bubbles. Despite ourselves, the government in the persons of Paulson and Bernanke are setting us up to be last in line, i.e. the greatest fool also known as the chump left holding the bag.
Here’s one – my daughter and I were starting a new business a few years ago. She refinanced her house (yes, a fraudulent sub-prime loan) and the lender (Aegis) has a policy of not reporting to the credit bureau until after three months. So her credit score was knocked down because she didn’t have a mortgage.
I had a piece of raw land. I got a mortgage (a legal, decent and non-fraudulent regular loan) on it. My credit score got knocked down because the loan was too small.
???WTF???
Yes. And any damn leaf is worth more than the ginko.
Nah, Birch Leafs win more games … *g*
fresh threadiness upstairs
I never make such short term predictions. I’m not that good a trader. I usually get more long term stuff right than wrong, but not the short term stuff.
as of 6/07, CALPERS had $140M invested in cdo’s
CalPERS held less than $200M of Bear Stearns and apparently we’re feeling comfortable with that whole backstop thingy
9/07 CalPERS awarded Lehman Brothers the lion’s share of $84bn portfolio in some securities lending program – have no clue what that means wrt bankruptcy
So as the economy unravels and the stores close and the shelves in the grocery begin to be empty and the trucks can haul because they can’t afford the fuel and aren’t being paid… what will the people do?
What will the police do when the people “riot” or demonstrate? Will they step down heavy like fascists and force people to slave away again?
Or will the corporatists be run out of town, the Boeing’s, Pepsi’s, Walmart, Gap, GM, drug companies, energy companies, media companies, the whole lot of “Fortune 500″… the ones which are ripping you off each and every day in so many ways.
Boy, I sure feel better now, after reading that. Not :(
thanks – just gonna have to wait and see what the future brings to the rest of their portfolio
I’ve always believed that catastrophes are a fork in the road. Depending on leadership, it can be Shock Doctrine, or a renewal of a peoples spirit and community. Hoover or Roosevelt. We seem to be at the fork.
This is why the ’slow food’ and ’simplicity’ movements should gain a lot of traction. Buy local. Grow your own. Get used to living well within your means. Buy only what you actually need – not everything you want. Make do. Start co-ops and barter groups.
If we get used to this kind of lifestyle sooner it won’t be such a huge crash when the actual crash comes. But it’s coming a lot sooner than later and we have so much work to do. We’re going to be forced into it anyway so might as well start now.
Our fascist business model expects riots and civil disorders from time to time.
Heavy police action should continue to protect profits.
You just can’t believe this shit is happening 1929
Actually, at the first sign of unrest the following will happen:
Bushco will institute martial law. (Yes, he now has the power to do that on his say-so alone)
Halliburton will begin construction on the 5000-person detention centers they already have a contract for and have been paid for already
If you think the elections are going to happen, dream on
Then Bush’s dream will come true: “This country would be a whole lot easier to govern if it was a dictatorship. And I was the dictator.”
This is a huge impact to all the county governments that are charged with infrastructure relacement. That monet gets expensive quick and is on the rise. Who said “Miriam fractal Spiral”? Ian of course. We are seeing reverse momentum in the market. Let’s hope the orderly is not replaced by the panic.
Wamu is two parts investment bank mortgages and Bank. The bank has a reserve requirement to maintain to get fed dollars. The Investment part if structered correctly can loos money withour having to borrow or issue stocks to cover their bets. If people get worried they may go into metals.This will shut down the retail christmas pretty hard.
Also Bof A anf their North Carolina associate are looking at Wamu.
” The last update for tonight, I thought you have to see this, just to see how companies value themselves, and how surreal that often is. Using Lehman’s valuations of similar subprime assets, AIG just lost $14 billion, or 18% of its entire value.
And then, on top of that, we can safely presume it has overvalued its CDOs as well, even as it claims a mark-to-market value (yeah, depends on the market?!), and it will lose another $20-30 billion on that. Mind you: AIG, as soon as tomorrow morning, is forced to sell into a hostile overcrowded market.
AIG looks destined to lose over $100 billion in “presumed” asset value in one day. Not on stock, but on assets and swaps valuation. Does not look good.”
Makes me wonder whether Chris Cox’s anti-shorting is still in effect and who will get on that boat ride the second the ban is lifted (and you know it will be for some special guests).
Underwriters of risk, AIG, certifies by insuring paper on the street. No insurance no paper no transactions. Sorry Charlie fold up your tent and head for th farm. What a bunch of assholes. Whomever staels the most wins cept nothin left. Son of a bush bo where to run no where to hide.
It’s harder to steal from the public when their duly appointed representatives simply refuse to hand over the dough.
I guess they’d have to actually look at business possibilities and stop holding out their hands.
“Please sir, may I have some more.” — Oliver
Wondering if the Niners will ever get to 5 wins this season…
Welp, they got one today. They certainly TRIED to lose, but Isaac Bruce and Joe Nedney had something to say about that.
Nolan is still the worst HC in the league and should have been fired before he left the stadium today.
But all the Niners teams – I use Walsh as the template on how to do it. Nobody can measure up to that, so it’s pretty unfair.
Joe Montana … coolest QB in the history of the game …
And to be fair, I recorded but missed the game. Worked all day :(
This reminds me of a very nasty joke that a very strait-laced auntie of mine told. It involves the renting-out of a two-seat outhouse’s basement during the depression. It goes down from there.
Yeah but come ON, Nolan is an idiot of galactic proportions. Eclipsed only by John York himself.
I just hope the Niners can convince Mike Holmgren to come home and coach the home-town team.
And Namath. Both from Monongahela, Pennsylvania.
Better Nolan than letting the team fall into the hands of Mike Martz!
It was mostly frustrating. Niners would do something good, then fuck it up. They had a good third Q until SEA drove 90 yards on them. JTO had the first 300+ yard game in FOUR YEARS for the niners. They had not had a 300Y passer since Tim Rattay.
Was nice to see them win but I have no illusions. THis is a 5-6 win team and Nolan gets fired at the end of the season.
Martz was a better HC than Nolan could ever cream of being. But I want Holmgren or Shanahan. I want a Walsh pedigree in our next HC.
Maybe what they meant, and we didn’t understand, was that ‘cash-less’ meant ‘no cash’, no plastic, nothing.
Is that where you get a good forking?
I didn’t see Namath play but I did see Montana and Jim Plunkett, who were the two best ever, in my book …
Where is Sam Wyche? He’s the one I want.
Namath was all-balls. Gifts, too.
link?
Chris was a Congress critter when Orange county declared bankruptcy. He sould have his name on a cell in Attica where white tussies are highly prized for their resale value.
Ask why Bushies took Fannie & Freddie. My guess is they couldn’t trash it and then buy it’s stock cheap, so now they’re going to hand it out like pieces of candy on Halloween.
Ask why Lehman Bros. Could be because JEB Bush works there?
Right now the problem isn’t Street corporatists per se, but Bush & Co et al.
I’d guess, if the JEB Bush thing is right, that they’ll backstop Lehman to pass out taxpayer dollars and then let everybody else fail, so they can buy ‘em up cheap (if they want).
GHW Bush said something like, ‘If the American public knew what we’d done to America they would chase us down the street and hang us all.’
Now, with blogging, we can see it as it happens and know where to assign blame.
Great fun Ian, Hope the neocaons wear this it along with McInsane.
Sam Wyche is now the offensive coordinator for the Pickens Blue Flame of Pickens High School. He helped the Blue Flame get to the second round of the playoffs in 2006.
He’s also a ‘puke.
I like Wyche. He was also Montana’s first pro QB coach. Gotta count for something.
Bernanke are letting them rob our bank. Why rob a bank when there is no money?
So is it a good thing to let Lehman go under? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.
And where is this $70 billion coming from? And will most of it be used to bail out AIG?
late late nite will be up in a bit – wanted ya’ll to be able to chew on the update for a wee bit
Resurrected from the previous thread, about finding the bottom –
At this point, I’d rather get it started. We’re going to have another Great Depression and the sooner we get it started, the sooner we’ll get past it. I may well not live to see the end of it as I believe it will last 40-50 years, and will include a 20 percent famine-induced die-off of humanity.
Does anyone else think maybe the Reagan administration was the begging of the end for the US?
Reagan ruined America.
Heading to bed…… if tomorrow is 1929 again….. at least I will have a good nights sleep…… Happy bailout…..
And yes someone was right ….. First Reagan ruined California first as a training ground and then went on to bigger and badder things to the rest of the country…. If I hear de-regulation one more time …….
Nite Suzanne….. have a good evening
Tomorrow IS 1929. Count on it.
Buy those RVs to live in while you have the cash, once the banks die off, it’ll be too late.
I’m planning to buy mine as soon as J will go alon with it. It’ll be rough with four cats in there, but at least we’ll be safe from the storm and my Remmy 870 will keep us safe from looters.
It’s going to get bad real soon, folks.
EPU’d from ”What lies ahead?” thread, but not entirely off topic:
John McCain will announce that the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy is just a “small bump in the road” and that investors have “nothing to worry about.”
“Just you wait til you see what my new tax cuts will do,” he will proclaim.
Whereupon Phil Gramm will be dragged out from under McCain’s podium, handcuffed, and frog-marched out of the arena by federal agents.
Ahem – the BEGINNING of the end for America…
The Clusterfucking of America is in full swing.
300 Texas national guardsmen and first responders reportedly without food or water.
-G
Also, where will oil sit with the announcement of war in the Nigeria oil delta, infrastructure damage in the Gulf of Mexico, Venezuela kicking out US ambassador in growing rift over accusations that the US is fomenting unrest in Bolivia.
g’nite katymine
Nite Suz.
This is completely unfair. JoeScar will be on the air in less than 5 hours. How in the world is he gonna figure out a way to blame it on the Democrats in such a short amount of time?
no it isn’t. however much deserved this was, and despite the fact that I once upon a time worked for that company, and am therefore inclined to gloat a bit. well, actually more than a bit. unfortunately, it’s liquidation will mean lots of really nasty assets will get dumped into capital markets quickly, at fire sale prices, setting off a number of smallish but still painful chain reactions. the junk market will go over further into the toilet, and that’ll harm all of those solid industrial companies that got lbo’d and overleveraged in the process, causing much suffering and unemployment in parts of the us least able to stomach it, etc etc
Shore up markets if they get hit by investors running away.
Has anyone checked to see whether anyone in John McCain’s stable of lobbyist/campaign advisors is affiliated with any of the big name companies currently being batted about in the financial crisis?
i’m not leaving – was saying g’nite to katymine who is.. its my nite for lln
Easy. All he needs to do is say with a straight face that the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy was a direct result of Barack Obama’s arrongant, uppity, elitist refusal to participate in a series of “town hall” meetings with John McCain.
30 percent of the American people will believe him.
Has anyone checked to see whether anyone in John McCain’s stable of lobbyist/campaign advisors
isisn’t affiliated with any of the big name companies currently being batted about in the financial crisis?There.
Thanks. Good catch!
Not sure. Probably.
most of the wall street firms tend to contribute in comparable portions to both of the two parties that they own, giving marginally more to the one most favored to win. there are some exceptions, like bear stearns and AIG, whose chairmen favored rethugs, but I suspect lehman and merrill are more in the equal opportunity bribery category
breakdown upstairs
Has anyone checked to see whether anyone in John McCain’s stable of lobbyist/campaign advisors is affiliated with any of the big name companies currently being batted about in the financial crisis?
All I see is Steve Schmidt and Mark McKinnon having lobbied for Fannie May.
That headline just hurts.
The rest of it explains why I’m so uneasy lately.
Wowser.
Looks like the Greenspan Puts have really come home to roost on this one.
.
The bankruptcy will have a forensic banker to unravel the paper from original to last tranches and cdos. The law was broken many times from the mickeyed applications and phony appraisals to the bundling of bad loans to the investment houses…them the lies to rollover the paper to the offshore markets. The Almighty Dollar is about to be Confederate. What a major and unforgiveable crime.
There are a lot of sweaty palms in the finance industry inclusing regulatory. The axe may fall onm a lot of peole who will be throw under the bus is my guess.
I always thought Broadway Joe was from Beaver Falls, Pa. Many a snickering joke made during his playing years.
You are correct.
One of the key elements in Reagan’s ruining of California was Prop. 13, which in theory “limited increases in property taxes.”
In actuality what it did was a) reward people who were able to stay in their homes, since their prop. tax increases were severely limited, despite astronomical increases in the value of their property; b) penalize anyone who had to buy a house, since the underlying “value” on which the property tax could now be calculated jumped with the sale; and c) completely choked off funds for education in CA. You can see the effects of this in the gutted university system and crumpling secondary schools.
The true genesis of the “I’ve got mine, now get the f*** out of my way; none for you” philosophy of the Republican party.
And what ever happened to the “taxes are the price we pay for living in a civilized society”?
. But before Obama can purge Washington of the scourge of Friedmanism, he has some ideological house cleaning of his own to do.
Yes, there is an alternative-Utopia, a classless, moneyless society. Preposterous, you say? Why? I ask. You say, human nature, greedy, selfish etc. That in a nutshell is the problem. I propose “collective image psychology” which holds that negative perceptions of human nature generate hierarchy as some try to prove themselves “superior” to the rest. This is insanity because we rely on a human standard to make an obviously unrealistic judgment. We are not identical. We come in different shapes and sizes etc, but we are equal in that the richest rich man dies and so far as we know nothing he did in this life has anything to do with the next (assuming there is a next). The rankings we give ourselves are figments of our imaginations.
Like individuals, we, collectively, have been driven crazy by inferiority. There are things we can do to start down the path to equality, but the future is by no means certain. Inferiority generates self destructive urges which sometimes cannot be denied.
Osama must be enjoying the spectacle of the U.S. economy in dire straits. The strategy we employed against the Russians in Afganistan essentially brought them to the point of economic exhaustion before they gave it up. History has the nasty tendency to repeat itself
In the current world, we’ve wasted huge amounts of money on the Bush wars, one of which was a war of choice; and we allowed the fantasy of deregulation to encourage Ponzi schemes–loaning money to people, institutions, that could not repay and then passing along the risk. We seem to have forgotten the lessons of the past (Savings and Loan Crisis, Enron, etc) and the need to police markets to protect children from hurting themselves–money indeed makes people do funny things.
Is this whining? Do we need more deregulation as McCain intends?