Hi all. Jacki from Health Care for America Now. Just want to thank Ian for hosting us and thank Rep. Stark, Roger, and Jim for joining us.

Hell all. Let me start with a question: does Obama’s plan meet Health Care for America’s criteria for a good plan? Or is HCfA pushing for something more?

welcome, all to FireDogLake.

Union City, CA in the house! Hey, Pete! :D So glad you are my rep.

Welcome Rep. Stark, welcome Jim, and welcome Roger. Thanks so much for being here today.

A virtual house party — everybody grab some popcorn, kick your feet up and watch the video.

I’m hoping Jacki Schechner and Jason Rosenberg drop in at some point, too.

I think Jacki’s bringing pie.

I’m here! Hi folks!

welcome to the Lake everybody.

Ian, so sorry for the loss of your friend

Welcome all — Pete Stark.

Hi Ian –

Obama’s plan does meet our principles as detailed in our Statement of Common Purpose. You can read it here:
http://healthcareforamericanow…..on_purpose

The bottom line – you can stick with what you have, pick a new private plan, or opt into a public plan. This is very similar to what Obama has laid out. (contrary to what McCain has been saying in speeches across the country)

Jane… The role of pie this evening will be played by cheese and crackers… :-)

Hi Jane, and all my fellow chatters, I’m very pleased to be here with the other speakers. We at Campaign for America’s Future are proud to be part of Health Care for America Now.

The time is now for an American solution that will secure our families’ health and a healthy economy.

HCAN is organizing to make this election year a mandate for action on health care. We think the first order of business for the new President and Congress in 2009 should be to pass health care legislation that guarantees quality, affordable health care for all.

Jacki,

however, Obama’s plan is not universal. Is that not one of the principles?

One of the areas that I’m pretty concerned about is the issue of college students losing their coverage once they graduate or turn 22, whichever comes first. With the difficulties today of a) finding a job within three months of graduation and b) finding a job that has health coverage, there are a lot of young people out there with no coverage.

I’d hoped to log on and stay on for this chat but w/2 young kids and a partner who’s been doing phone banking for the Sept 16th MA primary all day, it’s tough… but I do want to contribute to the conversation. I’m excited about the work of HC for America!, just as I’ve been excited about the work of Health Care Now! for the past 3 years. They have much more in common than their differences.

I’m a nurse and an activist in Massachusetts and want to give a shout out for CA’s SB 840 and the corresponding national bill HR 676 to create an improved and expanded Medicare-for-all national health program. Rep John Conyers is the lead sponsor and it has 90+ co-sponsors. I hope Pete Stark is one of them, or that after this FDL chat he will be! We have a streamlined financing (single payer) bill here in MA that has overwhelming public support but the corporate lobbyists always manage to kill it in the state legislature…$$$…

There’s more than corpoarate money to this equation, I know. Yes, we’ve got to “meet the American people where they’re at” and all that, but I’ve been a nurse for 15 years and a social justice activist for longer, and I believe the majority of Americans are open to a socialized health insurance program on the national scale. Maybe we’ve got to move in steps from here to there, but we’ve got to clearly identify where we must end up. The “Massachusetts mandated private insurance Model” is a disaster. I live and work in MA and know the facts. See this NPR blog for more details than you’d ever want!!!:

“Expect Massachusetts to Follow the ‘Universal’ Failure of Other States” Posted by CommonHealth, 8/15/08

NPR link http://commonhealth.wbur.org/g…..jamin-day/

To get to real universal health care we’ve got be vigilant about immunizing the public to provide protection against the fear-mongering that’s sure to be ramped up from the insurance industry as Obama’s tenure as President becomes a fact (Oh happy day). And of course this fear-mongering’s already been happening for years!…the battles we’ve been through here in Mass. trying to pass citizen initiatives, etc for years and years, similar to the CA experience. Thanks, FDL, and Roger et al at CAF, for all your great work on this issue.

I have a friend who died of skin cancer (and complications) because he was minimum wage worker with no health insurance, and waited too long to go to the doctor. He did not go easy, and I was with him through his final nights, feeding him chai from a baby bottle in his hospice bed.

I see the health insurance problem as being insoluble until we institute campaign finance reform in order to remove the influence of big health care companies on Congressional actions.

Is there any way to institute meaningful, comprehensive health care reform in this country without first removing the influence of lobbyists over Congress?

“The public plan” being something similar to what current members of Congress enjoy, or a new plan based on medicaid?

Thank you for this discussion….. I am an RN who used to work for various of the large insurance companies performing Utilization Review and Case Management…. I left when I couldn’t stand to go to work and do what they wanted me to do…..

Last year, I survived the diagnosis and emergency surgery for Kidney Cancer…..months after the surgery, my current insurance threw that “we are reviewing it for pre-existing conditions” …… thankfully I knew that by writing and saying I was going to send my case to the Arizona Department of Insurance for review pushed them to pay…… NOW I am terrified to loose my job, trapped if I would like to change employers…..

My wish list is some version of Medicare/Medicaid for All…..

Jim, I had a similar experience. You think you’ve got good coverage and suddenly they have teams of people going over your medical bills and deciding that they don’t cover things, that bills are outside “usual and customary,” and it’s not bad enough that you’re sick, you’ve got to fight this stuff too. Every time you get one, you think “they want me to die, this is perfectly acceptable to them.” The stress, on top of everything else, is unreal.

I couldn’t take it. I finally said “fuck it, just pay ‘em, I can’t worry about it. I have to get well.” And I still got a call from a collection agency hounding me the other day for a bill I never received. There is quite literally nothing you can do to stay out of their grasp.

It’s a whole ugly, vicious, parasitic culture. As bad as it looks from the outside, it’s worse inside.

One of the big things that came up in the debates btwn Obama and Clinton was the idea of mandates and we think you can’t mandate something that people can’t afford.

We believe once you make it affordable, you won’t have any trouble getting people into the system. So we don’t talk about mandates specifically yet b/c we have to address affordability first.

We do have to mobilize the power of the people — to get health reform and campaign finance reform. Both battles will require organized people to overcome special interests.

Hi everyone, I’m Jim Gilliam. My dad is featured in the film talking about our family’s struggle with healthcare. I’m very proud of my Dad for getting involved in the film, and telling the truth about the scams the healthcare insurance companies are pulling on the American people.

I had cancer twice about twelve years ago, and fought hard for a year and a half to get a double lung transplant, which I received in February 2007. The lung transplant was needed because of side effects from the cancer treatments ten years prior.

Feel free to ask me any questions.

A huge issue. As someone out of school only for a couple years, its something me and my family worried about a lot.

HCAN’s vision for health care reform is based on a person’s ability to pay, so students and recently graduated students will be covered, no matter their situation.

health insurance should not be tied to employment.

I read today a WSJ column on “Michigan’s bad economy” in which Gramm and Solon suggest that Michigan lost jobs due to high government taxes, unions and minimum wage laws. One thing they don’t mention, strangely, is health care costs. I remember back in 2005 a Toyota plant going to Windsor, and one reason was health care costs. And in, iirc 2002 or 3, the Big 3 sent a letter to the Canadian government saying, in essence, “never end universal healthcare, it’s why you’re competitive”.

Somehow that doesn’t seem to get brought up much – that universal health care is cheaper. Why is that? Why isn’t business clamoring for it?

Hi Roger — the other day, you and I were talking and you mentioned that John McCain’s “health care plan” (*cough*) would make insurance benefits taxable, at a cost to individuals of about $2,000 per year. Why hasn’t anyone made more of this? Joe Klein mentioned that the other day, and I talk about it all the time now that you told me (including on CSPAN this morning with Mona Charen).

Seems like it should be on ads on my teevee 24/7, especially when lying liar John McCain says he “won’t raise taxes.”

We actually advocate a uniquely American solution. A new public plan – not Medicare (or Medicaid) but based on the Medicare model

Chairman Stark, So glad you are with us.

Thanks to your leadership, Health Care is a top issue in this election.

Are you hopeful about reform in the new Congress.

Indeed! The burden the insurance companies put on the person sick is unconscionable. The only way I could cope with it was to ignore the bills entirely. My dad dealt with all the crisis stuff, and I just accepted that I’d have lousy credit. If you get seriously sick, you will have lousy credit. There is just no way around it. The insurance companies make more money the less they pay, and the doctors need to get paid, so the person sick ends up stuck in the middle.

I could never have dealt with all this without the help of family and friends.

Hi,

We agree that the industry is a huge problem, and they have been the biggest stumbling block to real health care reform. We have been bird-dogging AHIP all around the country, because in our vision the future, while private insurance may still exist, it would be a much more regulated version than what we have now.

If we elect Obama, we have a chance. If we don’t, we’re in trouble.

I agree Jane, the fact that McCain’s plan will destroy health coverage for millions of people SHOULD be headline news and the focus of TV ads.

The right-wing will not give up easily on the healthcare issue, because their central religious doctrine is at stake: “The free market and the private sector can alway offer better goods and services more economically than can the public sector.” That is their central sacred belief, and they are not about to admit that the problem with U.S. healthcare is that there are some things that can be done better and more efficiently by governments. And, they’ll have the resources of powerful vested interests backing them up with lots of lobbying and propaganda campaigning. It’ll be a hell of a battle as they deny the data and testimony from the rest of the industrialized world. And, IMHO, the only way to win is to take them on at their core central belief: that the private sector is inevitably more efficient and effective.

Yet, I’ve seen studies that show that if you don’t make it universal, you don’t get a lot of the savings. I agree with the mandate problems, but that’s also why so many of us think single payor is superior. Pay for it in your taxes, if you can’t afford it because you’re poor, well, you’ve still got it.

Echoing Roger, a question for Chairman Stark: What do you see as the lay of the land in Congress? Are you optimistic that health care is a priority?

question for anybody who wants to answer — why isn’t hcan pushing for hr676? single payer will be much cheaper and less complicated than obama’s plan…

question for rep stark — what would it take to convince you to cosponsor hr 676?

Hi!

Karen in New Mexico here. I’ve never done anything like this before and being a Luddite am not sure how it works, but since I’m a poor person who’s never had health insurance (I plan in dying if I get sick: no other choice) I just thought I’d see what’s being discussed.

I keep getting excited when folks (including the NM governor, who ran for pres) propose universal health care, but then my hopes get dashed.

Just my .02

Chairman Stark, for someone who’s something of an outsider, why is it that even though some polls show a majority want universal healthcare, it never seems to get traction in Congress? And in particular, I’m mystified by why business doesn’t get behind it, since done right it would reduce their costs. Or are they? Are you finding that business is beginning to push for it at all?

It seems that plans that include the choice of a “free market” insurance plan if you want one (like HCAN’s and Obama’s) would disarm this argument for all but the most hardcore right-wingers.

Insurance through employment is particularly bad these days because people change jobs so frequently. And it really stifles innovation too. People who want to leave their jobs and start out on their own are frequently afraid to because they will lose their insurance.

NEWS FLASH, On Tuesday, a new report will be released in Health Affairs by 4 prominent economists, detailing the damage McCain’s plan will do to millions of people who have health insurance through their employers.

Harry and Louise warned that the Clinton plan would undermine good coverage. McCain’s plan would do that: forcing people to buy expensive coverage in the private market.

Recent polls suggest health care is one of the top 3 issues for the public.

Hi,

I just wanted to remind everyone that the way to win this is to get a majority of support in Congress for our Statement of Common Purpose that outlines the road map to a guarantee of quality, affordable health care for all.

Don’t forget to take action at:
http://healthcareforamericanow…..sideaction

Thanks!

How can it be free market when you have no idea what the costs will be? I’ve never been given a menu of prices for exams or treatments.
Has anyone else?

I’ll start by saying the single-payer advocates I know are some of the most passionate people I have ever encountered. And there is no doubt that wiping out the insurance companies would be a happy happy thing. However, getting rid of the industry is not a feasible politically… maybe Chairman Stark could explain more… and offering people the option of sticking with what they have and are relatively comfortable with while offering the option of a public plan (which will hopefully be far superior to private insurance) is the best way to get to where we want to be.

Does Congress get that, though? In your opinion, do you see your colleagues as on board?

Hi Karen –

When we win (and I plan on winning b/c I don’t lose well) :-D, you will be able to pay for health insurance based on a sliding scale so it will be affordable for everyone.

The for profit providers have opposed universal health care, but corporations are beginning to see it would be to their advantage to have it.

I wish that the President, the Vice President, Senators, and Representatives had to find insurance on their own. Maybe then we’d see meaningful reform.

If you ask for a menu of prices from a hospital, it will be several times more expensive than what the insurance company would pay. So if you try to pay for it without insurance, you are getting gouged. The reason the hospitals and doctors do this is because they know the insurance company will negotiate it way down.

And yet again, the person sick is caught in the middle.

Right on!

Folks, Levana from HCAN just encouraged everyone to take action — to get all candidates for Congress to declare Which side are you on?

The first order of business for the new President and Congress in 2009 should be to pass health care legislation that guarantees quality, affordable health care for all.

We are asking everyone to tell us which side you are on:

Are you with us for a guarantee of quality affordable health care for all?

We need coverage that meets our families’ health care needs and is affordable, based on a sliding scale. We need government to be an advocate for us and set and enforce the rules so insurance companies put our health care before their profits. We need to be able to keep the health care that we have and have the choice of a public plan so we’re not left at the mercy of the same private insurance companies that have gotten us into this mess. We need quality, affordable care we all can count on.

Ain’t it the truth! Mr. McCain has been on government health care his whole life and never had to find it for himself. No wonder he doesn’t get it.

For the first time, I see light. Check out Kaiser Permanente.

This is the first time in my life (and I’m 55) that a medical group has written me to get in for tests. It could be what Obama is looking for.

I’m serious. I’ve waited no more than 5 minutes for appointments, prescriptions are filled there, and everyone is friendly and everything is spot on. If I need a dermatologist, I see a dermatologist. No paying twice by seeing a general doc and then a specialist. Makes so much sense.

This group is poised to take on universal health care. I am stoked. (And I had to PAY ZERO, where my original plan has gone up to $500. per family per year. Yes, I’m very fortunate, I understand this.

Of course, this is first and foremost a moral issue. I have been a health care activist for a number of years. I supported the “compromise” bill in california rather than the universal health care bill. This was two years ago. What a mistake. The people of this country need to become more radicalized around this major issue. People are dying.

I had breast cancer twice and my husband had open heart surgery all in 24 months.
In the middle of the crisis we filed for bankruptcy believing the worst was behind us. Now we are saddled with thousands of dollars in health care costs and no health insurance. Where is the religious right when you need them (snark). The bad news-we may lose our house. The good news-we are healthy in spite of being uncared for by this country.

I tell my health care story to anyone who will listen. People need to hear this.

Jacki — your response is right on.

That is why current payment for healthcare ends up being a lesson is algebra…

Provider bills X …. Insurance pays Y…. but there is the Contract the insurance has with the provider which is Z and then you throw in the employer plan rules where the member has to pay XYZ first before anything is paid except when the moon is blue and it is Tuesday……

Questions for conservatives concerning the Which Side Are You On question:

Are you for leaving us on our own to buy private health insurance?
Leaving us to fend for ourselves in the complicated private insurance market? Do you want insurance companies to be able to sell bare-bones plans with high deductibles? Do you want to start paying income taxes when your employer pays for health coverage? You don’t want any regulations on private insurance so they can keep denying coverage for pre-existing conditions and raising rates on the sick. And you don’t want any limits on health insurance company premiums or profits or on how much drug companies can charge for prescriptions.

That’s good, but we’ve got something like that in NM, and it’s so convoluted that I’ve given up trying to apply.

I am one who believes the government CAN do many things better than the private sector, but the folks who work for this state program have their heads up their *sses.

It took me three months to get all the paperwork together, then they misunderstood something I sent them and ended up canceling everything I’d sent in. They told me I had to start all over, and being as I was in the middle of a major depressive session (I’d gotten off my meds since I moved away from the Mexican border, where I could cross to get cheap meds) I just gave up.

Can anyone say the paperwork will be easier with a federal program?

(((marymccurnin & Mrmarymccurnin)))

Health care should be a constitutional right.

Newark representin’ !

Congressman Stark – welcome to Firedoglake !

50 year resident of Newark. My first vote ever was cast for you. Still have a photo of you with my two toddlers staring back at me from my toolbox each work day.

our family is not surprised to see you involved in easing the burden of healthcare for american families.

mr cbl

Be careful. HMOs like Kaiser are great for regular every day health things. Checkups, the flu, prescriptions. But if you get *really* sick, the game changes, and they restrict access to treatments and doctors based upon what THEIR doctors say. It’s a completely different experience, and the HMOs get away with it because the average person has a pretty decent experience.. and the really sick ones are few and far between.. assuming they even survive.

Thank You.

There is a huge difference between policy and politics. And in a perfect world, it wouldn’t be so tough to get the right policy in place. But as we all know, that’s not the case. So you have to work out the best politics to eventually implement the right policy.

I think there’s no doubt federal programs can be more efficient. Medicare is more efficient than private insurance. (http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2006/06/policy_why_medi.html)

Of course, we’ve got to get it right, though.

I live on an Indian Reservation and the situation is a bit different because of the service the Indian Health Service provides residents. It would be nice for the affordable health insurance to offered also to residents because Congress consistantly underfunds the IHS and service is very poor in many places.

There are certain functions that insurance companies do today that the govt (or someone) would have to do in an alternative system, such as define acceptable practices/treatments and set prices for them. How are these issues solved in the system being proposed?

If I understand correctly, the paradigm is that you and/or your employer shop for insurance on a competitive market, and the insurers shop for healthcare contracts on the competitive “providers market.”

It always depends. The paperwork for Canadian insurance is a 4 page application. That’s it for a patient (and only when you get your card, not each time). For doctors it’s more, but way way less than in the US. American hospitals have billing WINGS, Canadian hospitals have a couple rooms.

I love you — Thanks!

“Health care should be a constitutional right.”

Amen!

The Declaration of Independence: “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

There’s a reason LIFE is first.

In HCAN’s principles, there would be a certain level of care and affordability that all health care plans in the country, public or private, would have to conform to.

Let me mention that as Jason says, Medicare is far more efficient than /any/ private plan. The Veterans admin also has much lower costs. OECD countries with universal (almost always single payor) health care have an average of 1/3 lower costs and tend to do better on all or almost every major metric.

Universal health care is cheaper, and it’s better. It is stunning to an outsider that this is even a debate in the US.

I’m 100 percent for the Stark health ammendment.

And in the meantime, Cong. Stark is helping us get his colleagues on the record in favor of quality affordable health care for all — with a choice of keeping your current plan, or choosing between regulated private plans — or a Medicare-style public plan.

The Stark bill champions Medicare as the model for everyone who needs it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Now, that makes sense.

I could handle four pages. What other type of documentation do you have to show?

I keep threatening to move to Canada or Austria (where I was born, and where the Governator is from ), but I figure I’m old enough now, it’s probably not worth it.

Rep. Stark, given that HR 676 has 91 cosponsors, and will likely have more after the election, wouldn’t it be simpler to pass Medicare for All and have done with the health insurance industry?

Unfettered capitalism kills.

Hi karen,

I hear you on the paperwork with state health care plans. It is a problem, however, there are few provisions in our principles that would help alleviate that including IT improvements that would increase efficiency and a more Medicare style system that is very efficient. But, I think one of the important things to note here is that while state reform is important it is a national problem that needs a national solution. The states are doing the best that they can, but with shrinking federal funding and arcane rules and regulations it is too burdensome for most states to really solved.

As a fellow Canadian, whose husband was American, I have seen both systems up close and personal over the last five years. A few days after 9/11, my husband was permanently disabled by a really bad American doctor and the same month my dad was diagnosed with cancer. Both men lost their fights, but I learned a lot abotu both systems. I was NEVER worried about leaving my father alone in the hospital overnight; I NEVER left my husband alone in the hospital overnight.

I would also like to send a hug to you, Mr. Gilliam, I am very thankful that you received your transplant and that you are doing so well :) My husband had a heart attack three days after his second offer of a live donor kidney from a total stranger. May your health continue to be strong :)

With gratitude,
Heather

In my mind, it would be pretty hard to get rid of a trillion dollar industry overnight, no matter how evil and wrong they may be.

Some of the worst things I have seen in our current Corporate Health Insurance Companies……

1. Non-coverage is sick newborns…Unless the state the child is born in mandates coverage
2. Label someone with a pre-existing condition for seeking treatment for symptoms where all the results returned negative…
3. Wait times before a policy becomes into enforcement…..
4. Terminate coverage of dependent children when they turn 19, unless a full time student which has to be verified every semester then get dropped at 23-25

Hey, Mr Cbl, “Decoto” Union City here! We should plan a party!

Alright. I’ll trust you.

(((MARY)))

How about pregnancy as a pre-existing condition?

Yes, but who sets those standards? e.g., is there a “standards board” or some govt/industry entity that defines what the minimum standard of care is and how much those who provide it get reimbursed. Seems to me, some entity has to do this.

And they will make mistakes, both about what should/should not be covered and how much it costs to avoid shortages. Does the plan explain how those questions get answered?

two or three pieces of ID, including something with an address, iirc (it’s been a few years). It’s actually a bit of a pain, they’re very strict. But it’s not unreasonable and other than homeless people folks don’t have problems (and there are people who help the homeless get registered.)

Oh, I agree 100 percent it should be a Federal issue. But when you’ve never had anything, you grasp at whatever straws you can find.

The last eight years have been a disaster for millions of us, and if things don’t change in November, I don’t know what I’m going to do. (My only hope is if for some reason Obama DOESN’T win, that we can get a veto-proof majority that believes in universal health care.)

I’m glad to hear, Pete, that the corporations are ‘beginning’ to see that ‘it’ would be to their ‘advantage’. May we then (someday) expect the corporate sector to advocate for a single-payer system, or would they prefer that the, um, little people do all the fighting?

What do you find to be the corporate ‘perspective’ in terms of their ’social’ responsibility these days? (Think … ’social contract’.)

Perhaps clearly supporting single-payer would be a better ‘beginning’?

One big problem with the paperwork is that the current system thrives on pushing paper. It’s in the insurance company’s interest to make it as hard as possible to get things done, cause it costs them less money. So they throw as much paper into the system as possible. And it shows, administrative costs are like 18% at the corporations, and only 5% for Medicare.

Call my Fremont office to find out where our next party is.

Kaiser refused to diagnose my severe sleep apnea for 4 years. I switched coverage to another carrier and was scheduled for a sleep study as soon as I told them I couldn’t stay awake at work or any time I Sat down for more than 20 seconds…

This is from a Kaiser-born kid whose mother worked as an RN for them for 40 years… when I lived at home she knew which doctors to see and which to avoid. I moved up to Northern California and I learned a hard lesson in having to choose the health care professional when you are not a part of the “Kewl Kidz Klub”.

Because the old boy network in this country is not that educated they hear the words tax and they freeze up its a trigger word for them that causes them to say NO automatically without thinking.
Still we need to switch to a cheaper system the baby boomers will want more healthcare as they get older not less.
The GOP had better get used to less military spending. Shrink the Army so we can’t go it alone overseas every 10-15 years or so to save democracy,oil whatever and maybe we can avoid the economic troubles we have after the war.

These are all really good questions, and something that will have to be dealt with.

Right now, while we’re in election season, HCAN has decided to go forward with only general principles and not a full legislative plan. We did this because we are more likely to get more Congress-critters on board this way (and indeed, we’re doing well, we’ve got over 30 in a few months). Once we turn the corner into 2009, then we start talking about specifics.

Yeah, every two days they threatened to kick Jim out. I stayed 3 months and they didn’t want me to leave.

((Chacounne))!!!!

I thought that was changed bylaw but it was there for a while…. There are a thousands of really bad things they do but do not want to take over the thread….

The good thing about where we are is that we don’t have a plan yet. We have a set of principles – kind of like guidelines – that we expect an acceptable, comprehensive health care plan to meet. We can dig into the details – which we will – once we get across the first hurdle… and that’s getting enough Members of Congress and the President to agree we need comprehensive reform that’s high quality and affordable and meets our needs.

Oh yeah, and we want it asap.

Hope everyone knows: tonight there are 300 HCAN house parties around the country, training people to push congress.

The video at start of this was shown at all of them — made by Jim Gilliams great company, Brave New Films.

We plan to get every Member of Congress and candidate “on the record” about what they would do about health care. Check out http://www.healthcareforamerica.org

yes, getting rid of a trillion$ industry could be difficult, but canada did it.

Not sure about the specifics, I think it varies by provider whether pregnancy is a pre-existing condition or not. Either way, there is no question women are charged more than men for insurance, and pregnancy is a big factor there. See the National Women’s Law Center (http://www.nwlc.org/) for a lot more on the health disparities among the genders.

Fair enough. I don’t disagree with the strategy. Thanks.

Roger – I’m going to beat you senseless with a mini carrot…

http://www.healthcareforamericanow.org

now

not later

now

http://www.healthcareforamericanow.org

You might not think that if you saw their internal stock trading. The management of Cigna, Wellpoint, Aetna, and every other health insurance company is dumping company stock, a sure sign that they know that they have a failing business model.

Maybe Ian Welsh can fill us in on the details of Canada’s implementation. The way we see it, if we can pass a plan with HCAN’s principles, we’ll be setting the stage for further reforms.

It wasn’t easy. Doctors marched in the street, etc… It was turbulent. Of course, things are so bad that most doctors in the US now, I think, support universal care and many even single payor. In certain respects you’re in a better situation to implement than we were.

And by the way, when we had a private system, our per capita costs were higher than yours, now they’re 1/3rd.

Thanks to Jackie, Ian and Roger. I hope you’ll let me continue to be part of the dialogue. We all need to work together to achieve universal, affordable health care for all. First step is to elect Obama!

I’ve got no problem with getting rid of the insurance industry as a long term goal, but for 2009? Seems a bit far-fetched.

((Chacounne))!!!!

Ooops. URL is http://www.healthcareforamericaNOW.org

“private” insurance companies… that’s the problem right there. instead of private, they should be NON-PROFITS like credit unions. would it be an easier path to get a law passed that takes the insurance co. &c. OUT of the stock market so they don’t have to “answer to shareholders” any more and can stop making decisions about claims based on the bottom line and start making them based on what’s right for the client?

the client is the patient, not the f***ing shareholder!!!

i work for Boeing, and as you probably know, the IAM is on strike against Boeing right now. one of the problems they have with the contract offer is the increase in copays, out-of-pockets maximums, and other cuts in their medical benefts. i don’t understand why Boeing isn’t lobbying for change, for universal healthcare or SOMETHING.

also, i may be very naive in this, but i can’t understand why politicians are such SUCKERS for lobbyists. WE THE PEOPLE are the ones who hire & fire them with out vote. if they want to stay in office, they should do what’s right for the people, and in this issue, well, the answer is obvious to everyone on this conversation… with the majority of congress people not in the middle of an election year, you would think we could get the majority on our side… but oh yeah, the republicans &c. with their “free market” crap. *groan* capitalism doesn’t belong in certain aspects of life. police, fire, and HEALTH CARE!!!

::hugs:: Thank you Heather! I am so sorry to hear of your family’s health struggles… we are trying hard to fix all this.

And I’m so thankful for my two anonymous donors, the entire medical community that kept me alive, and my family and friends who helped fight the insurance companies.

Thank you Rep. Stark!

That there is this debate, should appall every rational, thinking person. But Americans have been propagandized from birth with the central tenet of laissez faire economics by the Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers, the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, CNBC, the AEI, the Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, and their schools and churches that the “unseen hand” was created by God Almighty and is his preferred way of exchanging goods and services. All other mechanisms are works of Satan and are both evil (unfair) and inefficient.

If we can get a public plan that is superior to most private insurance, then the shift to this as a singer payer model becomes easier, as the insurance companies become marginalized by the natural shift of people wanting to get the best coverage for themselves.

Well, the Canada health act gave people basic principles and guidelines and didn’t mandate every small thing. It was quite different from the way most US legislative suggestions have looked.

Honestly, my suggestion is to just enroll everyone in medicare and ramp that up.

Canada Health care act here. It’s actually interesting reading for those from the US. Very different model.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/S…..s/C-6///en

30 on board that’s wonderful! So much better than that Conyers fellow who only has 91 on board.

TMJ treatment and surgery falls right into that category…. of the TMJ patients 9 out of 10 will be women….. now it is on their exclusion list…..

Another issue with Health Insurance Contracts is that national plans are underwritten in specific states which allows contracts with have very poor coverage…

The problem is not all with insurance companies….. My last hospital stay, emergency admit…. the day I was passing blood clots as kidney stones the hospital business office came to my room demanding $723.00 right then which would of been out outstanding deductible…… they did it again the day of discharge and was told by the nurses that they are REQUIRED to wheel patients to the business office prior to actual discharge.

John Conyers has just signed our statement of common purpose and he’s on board with our efforts.

I hate to tell but we the people no longer hire and fire anyone. Not since two elections were stolen. One by the big court and the other was hacked.

Did the deal the UAW make with GM (I think) help in moving corporate opinion in re insurance?

Are corporations seeing the light?

Exactly! Wouldn’t it be great of the public plan was just better and more people chose to join it?

they hear the words tax and they freeze up

A large fraction of Americans would strenuously object if the deduction on their pay stub now labeled “Healthcare Premium” were cut in half and relabeled “Healthcare Tax.” They would insist that it was unfair and that they were being screwed.

labradoriushumanus, Thanks for your comments. The management at Boeing is truly short sighted. They should be required to provide GOOD health care or pay into a fund to provide good public plan.

But it is difficult to get Congress to do something so bold as to provide public coverage for everyone. I want to make sure that Obama momentum at least results in good coverage for everyone — including providing a choice of a public plan for everyone who wants it.

plus, it would help with medicare’s looming shortfall if all the young and healthy people in the u.s. started paying into it now, long before they get old and sick.

Not for profit Health Insurance balanced with Not for profit Hospitals….. Once upon a time Hospitals were run by extensions of Universities and Church such as the Sisters of Mercy…. take the profit out of the system will have a huge effect on the system

I don’t know much about the UAW deal but what we’re finding with business is that the current path is so untenable that something has to be done. And what we are advocating is actually less expensive for business (big and small).

One last plug for our action: we can fix this together. The first step is to build a majority in Congress. After only 3 weeks we have 30 signers on to our statement of common purpose. You can ask your member of congress — or congress-critter, as Jason likes to call them — here:
http://healthcareforamericanow…..sideaction

Thanks!

Part of the issue, I think, is making it clear that even if you pay more taxes, your overall health care expenses go down. Who cares if you’re playing the insurance company or the government, as long as you’re paying less.

It’s also the case that satisfaction with Medicare has gone down since the drug benefit was put in, because it was so badly done. This is how you kill popular programs, monkey wrench them.

i’m glad to hear people realize the MA mandated insurance is such a disaster. My son couldn’t afford to pay that and didn’t want to get hit with fines, so i told him to file in another state. (he works in several, seasonally.)

The billing people at the hospitals will now ask you for money before they treat you. This happened to me just a few months ago when I ended up in the emergency room with a bleeding ulcer (a nasty side effect of one of the transplant drugs I was on). They wanted me to give them $1800 before they would see me. I told them that was illegal, which it is.

They did the same thing when I was discharged 2 weeks later.

I have to run, but I want to thank everyone who is participating.

And Fire Dog Lake and HCAN for setting this up. And Cong Pete Stark.

Everyone needs to keep up the pressure on candidates for Congress.

Ask them Which Side Are You On? Si Se Puede! Roger Hickey

thank you! levana

Thanks, Roger!

Thanks Roger!

This is partially a union effort, isn’t it? I believe SEIU is involved. That’s a major change isn’t it? Decades ago unions were for health care, but many of them, because they had their own, wouldn’t push that hard. Now the SEIU is for this hard, because they realize it can’t be handled just in individual contracts.

thanks for working to make it better.

they’re already paying into medicare now. hr676 would just increase that amount, and the deduction for their health insurance would disappear entirely. from john conyers’ website–

“Currently, the average family of four covered under an employee health plan spends a total of $4,225 on health care annually […] Under H.R. 676, a family of four making the median family income of $56,200 per year would pay about $2,700 for all health care costs, including the current Medicare tax.”

Who cares if you’re playing the insurance company or the government, as long as you’re paying less.

Answer: an amazingly large fraction of well educated middle-class Americans. It’s astounding.

SEIU, AFSCME, the AFL-CIO, UFCW are all on board with our effort. It’s a big change, and we are really happy they are lending their power to this campaign.

We have five employees in our logging/road building business. My husband has figured it out that based on what we pay and what our employees have used as to medical costs, we/they have paid more than we have gotten back. To keep coverage available, the deductions have gotten higher and higher each year. Premiums are going up again around 12 percent in January. Right now, there is no guarantee that we will even offer health care next year, because we probably can’t afford it.

One of our employees broke his wrist a few weeks ago, but not at work. So far, they haven’t had to do surgery, but even with deductions, they can’t afford surgery without an income. To help them out, we employed his wife as a front loader operator, so they could survive.

There are a lot of woman working outside the home just for health care. If Republicans actually cared about families, they would fight for universal health care, so it would be easier for a woman to stay at home.

Our system puts everyone but the patient first and that has to be fixed. Even Cathy McMorris Rodgers is starting to get a clue. Still too much a Republican to do the right thing, but maybe.

Thank you everyone! This is one of the very best FDL threads, ever.

I’ve been reading avidly, but not commenting. Thus, “lurking”. I hope all of you “principals” (and all the FDL regulars) who have made this such a vibrant discussion know that FDL is pretty widely read (grin) by many who never comment.

another reason why health insurance shouldn’t be tied to employment.
Since the Republicans are always going on and on about small business, maybe this a way in for universal coverage.

We need more businesses on board with this effort. We know that there are a lot of folks, both big and small businesses, who want health care reform, but we need folks to be more vocal and organize.

Hey, click on that Gerlach ad up top, see what he thinks about healthcare –
and make him cough up some cash for FDL

am with ya !

as I often do in these threads, I sit here contemplating how soooo many of our friends, neighbors, loved ones, co workers would benefit from such a highly informative discussion as this in such easy to understand terms.

I think that the U.S. healthcare situation has gotten so ridiculous that the whole thing is bound to implode, especially since the rest of the industrialized world is handling healthcare rather well. But the right-wing have become reality-deniers on this matter as well as so many others. And they are well financed and very well organized. They’ll be tough to beat.

Just a quick request: please do go and send a letter to your Senator. This stuff does matter, and they do need to know that people care.

You can do so here.

I agree that some unusual suspects are beginning to see the light. Don’t be afraid to go after her! Get all your friends to call too-you can use our tool to get connected at http://www.healthcareforamericanow.org/call

and they lie, cheat and steal.

Aloha, Rep. Stark, Jacki and Jason!

Has anybody mentioned itty-bitty steps that could be made now to start real reform… Such as repealing the ridiculous clause forbidding Medicare from negotiating with BigPharma…?

That’s a good point. So much of the current system is crippled deliberately, yet even so it still outperforms the private system.

Elliot, you’re my favorite!

The best thing we can do know (though I may be a little biased) is to make sure your Congress-critter knows you’re serious about health care reform. You can email then all easily here: http://healthcareforamericanow…..sideaction

We need to make sure health care is issue #1 in January.

digg this and
upvote on reddit

aw shucks!

Republicans believe that people are born to be taken advantage of. If you are not at the top of the heap then you deserve whatever happens to you. Unfetter capitalism kills. Republicans kill.

Jane,

I have got more gooper traction here in gooperland with that point than anything this cycle

The Obama campaign should use http://www.obamataxcut.com as their model and call it

JohnMcCainWillRaiseYourTaxes dot com – allowing folks to type in their employers contribution and show the annual taxes that will result

Heh, Mazie Hirono is well aware of my concerns and we’ve corresponded frequently…! *g*

Ian, The unions have always been in the lead to expand social insurance.

Many unions whose members had retirement plans were in the forefront of the campaign to pass Social Security and then Medicare. Thank God for the union movement. They understand, as you say, that unless we all have health care, those who have it will be undermined… And corporate America is under pressure to find another way to provide health care.

Jason, apologies if this info is available at your link- but is there an easy way of figuring out who to applaud, and who to pressure? John Lewis (GA) is my congress critter. Hank Johnson is in the next district. etc.

We’ve got a tool where folks can call Congress that shows if they’ve signed on or not. Head to http://www.healthcareforamericanow.org/call to check.

Hmmm… Mazie’s not on the list… I’ve bookmarked it and I’ll send it to her tomorrow morn!

Awesome, thank you! Even a few phone calls or emails really goes a long way. We’re sitting down with as many members of Congress as e can in person, so it really helps if these people have heard from their constituents before we talk to them.

Thanks everyone for coming and asking questions, and thanks not just to Pete Stark, but to all the folks from Health Care for America Now who helped answer questions. I’ve lost two American friends now who would have lived if the US had a proper health care system, so I really encourage everyone to do what they can. Could be someone you really care about whose life you save.

Thank you Ian, for hosting, and thanks to everyone here at FDL! I always feel at home when I’m here. :)

She is a co-chair of the Progressive Caucus, I’m sure she’ll be receptive…! ;-)

Thanks Jason- especially for the list .

I already know how to contact John Lewis!

Mahalo for joining us, and, for ya’lls’ efforts! 8-)

Siun upstairs on arm sales

I am a medical social worker who has worked in hospitals for 33 years. I love it when McCain asks the question “Do you want a bureaucrat between you and your doctor?” The question proves how completely out of touch the man is. When did he ever have to obtain a prior approval? We currently have teams of bureacrats standing between patients and their doctors. I spend hours on the phone arguing with insurance company “case managers” about approvals for meds and procedures.
And what did John McCain, who claims he stood up to the pharmaceutical lobbyists, do to prevent Medicare D from becoming nothing more than a gold mine for those same pharmaceutical lobbyists as well as the insurance industry lobbyists?

What I love about this broken healthcare system is just think of all the high rollers who are getting hurt by it. Last year I fell off a ladder and hurt my head. While I was waiting to get sewed up I would say I saw 25 or 30 people pile up at the emergency room. I live in an affluent area these weren’t poor people. I gathered by the way the nurses acted this was a daily phenomenon. The other thing is that I get all these bills from doctors who didn’t even bother to walk into the room, the only person I saw was a nurse practitioner who did a nice job but I wonder who these 3 doctors I get the bills from even are. When I ask what services they performed I stopped getting 2 of their bills. Sometimes I guess having no insurance can be a good thing, but I wonder how often this happens.

Thanks Jason and everyone, this was wonderful.

How close are we to single payer medical care? Why mandatory insurance some son’t have? Where is universal.

Exactly!!!

hmmm… how about if we each (and this would of course take millions of us, or billions…) buy a few shares, buy up all the “publicly” traded insurance companies, pharm, etc., donate the shares to HCAN, and *boom* hostile takeover! and it would be done the capitalist way so the republicans can’t complain. ;-) then HCAN can set all the policies, premiums, standards, etc. LOL! wouldn’t that be awesome……..

I had a bill from a doctor I don’t recall ever seeing. I had encephalitis and was admitted through the ER. My brain function was quite low at the time of admission. The doctor I got the bill from was someone who diagnosed me as having ”psychosis.” I paid the bill without realizing it should have been part of my deductible. I discovered the error when I was doing my taxes.

At first they told me that they would not pay the bill because I said I had encephalitis but was diagnosed with psychosis. They eventually agreed that perhaps there was a relationship between encephalitis and ”psychosis,” they took it off my bill and actually reimbursed my payment to them. I honestly don’t know if I ever saw that doctor, but at the time I was not very functional, so who knows??

At the Presidential debates when McCain accuses Obama of pushing for a big, bad “government sponsored health care program,” I just want Obama to note that McCain has enjoyed government sponsored health care all his life from his father’s naval plan to the plan that has covered him in Congress all these years. Why is McCain trying to keep us all from having what he has?

The insurance companies make more money the less they pay, and the doctors need to get paid, so the person sick ends up stuck in the middle.

Tell insurance companies they can’t deny coverage, on anything, ever.
Doctors should decide what needs care, not insurance companies.

But then, the insurance companies wouldn’t be able to shape policies to disallow a lot of things.

It’s like insurance companies allowing coverage for hurricanes, but not wind or rain or flooding. It’s insane to allow THEM to define coverage, so they can later deny it.

if you can’t afford it because you’re poor

My state offers an insurance card which covers poor folks.
I’d guess the federal plan needs to do the same.

Then the argument is over who qualifies and why they get coverage, but working poor don’t have it.

You need to be sure everyone has more than the bottom poor or they’ll feel jealous and angry at Congress to cheating them out of their tax dollars.

done right it would reduce their costs

They (corporations) probably are scared to death it will become another big gov’t. program THEY would have to pay for. They need to see signs of incremental regulation and change which is going to benefit them. Like everybody else they don’t want to shoulder the whole burden — they want the benefits, but without having to change at all.

People who want to leave their jobs and start out on their own are frequently afraid to because they will lose their insurance.

Like retirement plans it needs to be mobile and separate from work.

This also worries some companies because they might have a great plan which is a big advantage to them over their competitors. A new plan might hurt them.

That’s one reason the new plan shouldn’t be such a huge change from what we have now. It needs to build onto or reshape small parts of our current plan to limit price increases and price gouging and price fixing and inefficiencies without messing up anybody’s life too suddenly.

I’ve never been given a menu of prices for exams or treatments.

In a sense the free market offering of health insurance plans IS that. But, most people don’t look at it that way and don’t know their options and are left utterly confused by lack of standardization of offerings and insurance lingo.

Some standardization of language should help consumers and to define precisely what an insurance company or health care provider is required to provide.

universal health care, but corporations are beginning to see it would be to their advantage to have it.

The increase in costs is hurting companies AND governments at all levels. They want lower costs, plain and simple. Getting rid of their plans is just a way to that end.

Where can the costs be limited through efficiencies, ending price fixing, providing or creating more competition and the like?

The reason the hospitals and doctors do this is because they know the insurance company will negotiate it way down.

This really confuses everybody.

Do away with insurance company negotiating down. Set price, set payment, set definition of service.

BTW, having doctors defining service is probably a lot better than having insurance companies mangle that.

We need to be able to keep the health care that we have and have the choice of a public plan so we’re not left at the mercy of the same private insurance companies that have gotten us into this mess.

Perhaps what you mean is to have multiple insurance coverage plans for basic care, emergency care, catastrophic care, long-term care or whatever a person needs.

Requiring insurance companies to offer some options along these lines would give people the options they need, rather than just what’s profitable to the insurance companies. It could also make price comparison between companies a little easier.

In the middle of the crisis we filed for bankruptcy

There are far too many people going bankrupt from health care costs. Either their plans are refusing to pay or they simply don’t have the coverage in the first place.

The government either needs to provide or create a new kind of insurance plan which companies could offer to people in this situation, whereby they pay AFTER incurring a very serious problem. With enough people paying it might be feasible. But, if not, the government should take on people and charge premiums regardless of their health problem.

Nobody should have to go broke to get health care.

you don’t want any limits on health insurance company premiums or profits or on how much drug companies can charge for prescriptions.

In the free market there is some assumption that competition between providers will keep prices low. This doesn’t seem to be working well in the health care field. Why? Where is the competition? Is there price fixing? What prevents normal-ish market forces from working?

Find those narrow problem areas and try to fix them to restore some semblance of a normal marketplace where the consumer has their say.

It took me three months to get all the paperwork together

Why are you required to fill out paperwork?

The patient should see their doctor or ER and let them take it from there.

my husband was permanently disabled by a really bad American doctor

My dad was once treated by a man who, it was discovered, wasn’t a doctor at all. The hospital was scared to death of law suits, so they forced him out. He just went across a state line and started up again.

This isn’t good and no hospital should be in that position.

Even a national registry of bad doctors wouldn’t have solved that problem. The man quit and went somewhere else without anything on the record about him NOT being a real doctor or about him NOT being good.

One big problem with the paperwork is that the current system thrives on pushing paper. It’s in the insurance company’s interest to make it as hard as possible to get things done

Taking away their ability to choose what to cover and taking away their ability to probe your history should end a lot, if not all, of that.

they should be NON-PROFITS like credit unions

Is there anything preventing that from happening now?

Honestly, my suggestion is to just enroll everyone in medicare and ramp that up.

See Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac.

the day I was passing blood clots as kidney stones the hospital business office came to my room demanding $723.00 right then

Outrageous…ly funny.

Should any financial business really be done in a hospital room or hallway?
Should anyone be required to pay money to either get health care or to leave a health care place? Isn’t that false imprisonment anyway?

The billing people at the hospitals will now ask you for money before they treat you.

This is one of the most distasteful things that happens at a hospital.

They should never be allowed to let money intervene before emergency health care. I think this is already the law.

However, they should never be allowed to apply that pressure when you are ill and in pain and are very vulnerable. Financial stuff should only be done with healthy people (or their representatives).

the deductions have gotten higher and higher each year.

Why don’t you change insurance companies? Is there no alternative?

We need competition and if the government has to provide some, then so be it.

the only person I saw was a nurse practitioner who did a nice job but I wonder who these 3 doctors I get the bills from even are. When I ask what services they performed I stopped getting 2 of their bills.

This is also a pretty good argument for a co-pay. Once your own skin is in the game you pay more attention to how much they’re charging and whether they’re frauds.

The government should have a web site where fraud can be reported instantly!

“Where can the costs be limited through efficiencies, ending price fixing, providing or creating more competition and the like?”

single payer would eliminate the inefficiencies and price fixing that the insurance companies are imposing on us now, and getting them out of the equation means not having to worry about competition.

I wasn’t suggesting privatizing Medicare like was done to Fannie. A public fannie, properly run, would never have hand most of these problems.