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	<title>Comments on: FDL Book Salon Welcomes Thurston Clarke: The Last Campaign</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/</link>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630676</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630676</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;this type of system would be decried by the “concervative” and the “libertarian” and the “republcian” as “socialism”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it is NOT&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it is forcing industry into paying their own bills, it is not up to the rest of us to keep industy’s labor force healthy, that’s up to them&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and “socialism” in it’s prejurative sense indicates a program an individual is forced into and cannot opt out&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this is not true of single payer or employer payer systems&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;first of all, corporations are not entitled to any consideration, they are obligated by the rules of the host&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;second, an employee can opt out of the program simply by declaring in writing (and proving) that they have their own adequate health care&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the employer would get a return from the government for employees that opt out of the program&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;then the employer can offer the employee more wage comenserate with the savings, however it is not likely the added wage would be more then the individual is going to pay for health care themselves and this would most likely only happen when a spouse is already covered&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this type of system would be decried by the “concervative” and the “libertarian” and the “republcian” as “socialism”</p>
<p>it is NOT</p>
<p>it is forcing industry into paying their own bills, it is not up to the rest of us to keep industy’s labor force healthy, that’s up to them</p>
<p>and “socialism” in it’s prejurative sense indicates a program an individual is forced into and cannot opt out</p>
<p>this is not true of single payer or employer payer systems</p>
<p>first of all, corporations are not entitled to any consideration, they are obligated by the rules of the host</p>
<p>second, an employee can opt out of the program simply by declaring in writing (and proving) that they have their own adequate health care</p>
<p>the employer would get a return from the government for employees that opt out of the program</p>
<p>then the employer can offer the employee more wage comenserate with the savings, however it is not likely the added wage would be more then the individual is going to pay for health care themselves and this would most likely only happen when a spouse is already covered</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630662</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630662</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I posted this downstairs not knowing if I would make it in time for this chat, I’m really glad I made it&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what people don’t want to address is the fact hat just as it’s an obligation for industry to maintain their equipment, it”s also an obligation they maintain the labor force&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this is done by creating the policy as follows.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;industry pays into health cared, not the laborer&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;they will obviously be able to pay their labor force less since the cost of living has therefor gone down&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;with that system, industry does not pay more they actually pay less for labor since their buying power lowers the cost of health car a laborer would have to pay individually&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;also, with this system their is .no burden from caring for the uninsured since everyone Will be insured&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the laborer should be faced with a fee that insures the unemployed&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;in addition, anyone could purchase additional insurance if they feel that supplied by industry is not enough&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this downstairs not knowing if I would make it in time for this chat, I’m really glad I made it</p>
<p>what people don’t want to address is the fact hat just as it’s an obligation for industry to maintain their equipment, it”s also an obligation they maintain the labor force</p>
<p>this is done by creating the policy as follows.</p>
<p>industry pays into health cared, not the laborer</p>
<p>they will obviously be able to pay their labor force less since the cost of living has therefor gone down</p>
<p>with that system, industry does not pay more they actually pay less for labor since their buying power lowers the cost of health car a laborer would have to pay individually</p>
<p>also, with this system their is .no burden from caring for the uninsured since everyone Will be insured</p>
<p>the laborer should be faced with a fee that insures the unemployed</p>
<p>in addition, anyone could purchase additional insurance if they feel that supplied by industry is not enough</p>
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		<title>By: jacqrat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630593</link>
		<dc:creator>jacqrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630593</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, they are &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fixing-healthcare-now-a-live-discussion-with-health-subcomittee-chairman-pete-stark-jim-gilliam-and-roger-hickey/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;FIXING HEALTHCARE NOW&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, they are <a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fixing-healthcare-now-a-live-discussion-with-health-subcomittee-chairman-pete-stark-jim-gilliam-and-roger-hickey/" rel="nofollow">FIXING HEALTHCARE NOW</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630592</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630592</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fixing-healthcare-now-a-live-discussion-with-health-subcomittee-chairman-pete-stark-jim-gilliam-and-roger-hickey/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;upstairs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Health Care Live Chat With Chairman of the Health Subcomittee &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Pete Stark, the Congressman from California’s 13th district, will be here today to discuss health care in America and what can be done to fix it.  Joining him will be Roger Hickey of Campaign for America’s Future, and Jim Gilliam, a cancer survivor who’s survival was imperiled by the current system.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fixing-healthcare-now-a-live-discussion-with-health-subcomittee-chairman-pete-stark-jim-gilliam-and-roger-hickey/" rel="nofollow">upstairs</a><br />
Health Care Live Chat With Chairman of the Health Subcomittee </p>
<blockquote><p>Pete Stark, the Congressman from California’s 13th district, will be here today to discuss health care in America and what can be done to fix it.  Joining him will be Roger Hickey of Campaign for America’s Future, and Jim Gilliam, a cancer survivor who’s survival was imperiled by the current system.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: DWBartoo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630585</link>
		<dc:creator>DWBartoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630585</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thurston and Peter it has been a true pleasure to hear your lively and most informed thoughts. I thank you both for stopping by and sharing some time with us.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thurston and Peter it has been a true pleasure to hear your lively and most informed thoughts. I thank you both for stopping by and sharing some time with us.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Edelman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630584</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630584</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Again, my thanks to everyone.  Wonderful to be a part of this.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, my thanks to everyone.  Wonderful to be a part of this.</p>
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		<title>By: Thurston Clarke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630583</link>
		<dc:creator>Thurston Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630583</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And thanks to Peter, and everyone who offered such probing and intelligent comments.&lt;br /&gt;
Thurston&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And thanks to Peter, and everyone who offered such probing and intelligent comments.<br />
Thurston</p>
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		<title>By: bmaz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630581</link>
		<dc:creator>bmaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630581</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks much to both Thurston and Peter; marvelous work and a wonderful discussion.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks much to both Thurston and Peter; marvelous work and a wonderful discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Edelman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630580</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630580</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We didn’t talk about it.  I think we all didn’t see any point to saying something out loud.  It was going to happen or it was not going to happen.  He very much lived his life a day at a time even though he never said out loud that it was because (if it was because) he never know which day would be the least.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We didn’t talk about it.  I think we all didn’t see any point to saying something out loud.  It was going to happen or it was not going to happen.  He very much lived his life a day at a time even though he never said out loud that it was because (if it was because) he never know which day would be the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Thurston Clarke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630579</link>
		<dc:creator>Thurston Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/14/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-thurston-clarke-the-last-campaign/#comment-1630579</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good point. That word, “reconciliation,” is key. It was sorely needed in 1968, and it’s sorely needed agin. I like to believe that RFK would have had the couraage to use a great deal of political capial to further a post-Vietnam reconciliation. If Obama wins and tries to do the same thing he is undoubtedly going to upset some of his progressive supporters.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point. That word, “reconciliation,” is key. It was sorely needed in 1968, and it’s sorely needed agin. I like to believe that RFK would have had the couraage to use a great deal of political capial to further a post-Vietnam reconciliation. If Obama wins and tries to do the same thing he is undoubtedly going to upset some of his progressive supporters.</p>
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