Comments on: FDL Book Salon Welcomes Jonathan Stevenson: Thinking Beyond the Unthinkable

By: MarkH

MarkH — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:15:41 +0000

When you are afraid then all you have is the paternalistic pro-war Republican dictators to protect you.

To think beyond the unthinkable is to put yourself in the middle of such anxiety that you can’t think rationally — making you entirely vulnerable.

Was 9/11 unthinkable? What about the idea that it was Americans who did it?
Is a nuclear war unthinkable? What about a nuke hitting NYC or Washington?
Is a depression unthinkable? What about world war stemming from it?
Is a plague like HIV AIDS unthinkable? What about a world-wide plague?

We can think about these things all you want and sink into that emotional pit, but it won’t help us move forward.

Fear is the mindkiller.

By: MarkH

MarkH — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:07:45 +0000

“In fact, al-Qaeda’s shura, or council, sharply debated whether the shock of attacking the World Trade Center and the Pentagon would be worth the probably loss of Afghanistan as a base, and ultimately was persuaded it was. …” — Jonathan Stevenson

He states as fact that AQ’s council debated the attack. Does he have proof of this? The FBI doesn’t seem to think it has sufficient evidence to connect bin Laden to 9/11. If Stevenson has that proof he should make it clear.

“The choice, crudely, seemed to be between negotiation with terrorists, perhaps yielding them victory, or furnishing bin Laden, at prohibitively high risk, with precisely the violent “clash of civilizations” that he wanted to power the apocalypse.” — Jonathan Stevenson

He says bin Laden “wanted” “the violent ‘clash of civilizations’…” “to power the apocalypse”. Has anyone anywhere before asserted bin Laden wanted to create an apocalypse? That sounds more like a Fundamentalist Christian idea. Has anyone shown evidence bin Laden wanted a clash of civilizations? The only thing I’ve read which was supposed to have come from bin Laden said he wanted to destroy America, iconic symbols like the WTC and Pentagaon (and perhaps Capitol) and the dollar (which is happening).

Does Stevenson provide convincing evidence for any of these powerful assertions?

By: CTuttle

CTuttle — Sun, 14 Sep 2008 00:16:31 +0000

Aah… I’m bummed that I missed this awesome post…! 8-(

By: T-Bear

T-Bear — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:04:51 +0000

Thanks Jonathan, Siun and Bev for the post, Now I will have to find the book, my to read pile grows ever larger.;-)

By: Jonathan Stevenson

Jonathan Stevenson — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:03:53 +0000

You’re right, too. I’ll try to log in one night. Thanks for doing a superb job of moderating.

By: bigbrother

bigbrother — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:03:42 +0000

Thank You!!!

By: Siun

Siun — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:02:59 +0000

Thanks as well to our readers – this was a really good conversation and I hope we can take it further as we think about – and vote for leaders of – our foreign policy.

By: bigbrother

bigbrother — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:01:31 +0000

In a parrellel Universe a collaborative effort is effective in reaching tenable goals. All the stakeholders need to be at the table. At least in a think tank environment. AIPAC’s goals of Zionism do not match up well with our best national interests. Not to say all interest need to be weighed for the common good. Now the Corporate interest are given deferene and served well by the almost 300 military bases that protect their assests. The shere of USA influence and interest escalate in the search for resources to feed the Industrial/military cmplex. That is the driver in all of this. On balance it is a scale that is weighed for the profit of the oligarchy not the good of the national or world view.

By: Siun

Siun — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:01:31 +0000

Jonathan – that is an issue that needs much more discussion – we’ve been tracking the choice to use more air power and air strikes in Iraq and now Afghanistan with resulting civilian casualties (and government coverups) and it’s an area where my friends in other countries, including several in other militaries, feel the US needs immense improvement.

If you are ever free on a Sunday night, we discuss this a lot during my Iraq posts (9 PM EST normally) and I’d love to have your input.

By: timbo

timbo — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 23:00:27 +0000

Yes, thanks for writing about the need for a re-enlistment of original strategic thinking methodologies…much more likely to succeed than the glad handers I’d say.