ZED!!

What a Monster of A Hurricane!! Hold on to your wallets the price of Gas is sure to break $5.00 as this one will surely reek havoc on the refineries and the distribution systems..
Digg this Post that Peterr post for us pups!!

Thanks Peterr.

One more bit of disgusting and depressing news —- the city of Galveston has evacuated everyone except the prisoners & prison staff.

Some of y’all may know that Snarkassandra (Cassie)’s mom is in jail in East Texas, but in an area that looks safe from the storm surge at this point.

Thank you, Peterr. The power of this storm certainly is a humbling reminder of our own lack of power as individuals. My prayers go out for the people of the region.

The potential environmental damage if the petrochemical plants and refineries lose their tank farms in the flooding and associated fires (see CNN.com front page for fires already burning on Galveston Island) could be overwhelming and very long-lasting. Think Valdez in an area with a population over 4 million.

Geez. Thanks for laying this out; I’d been watching the storm track, but I didn’t realize the connection between size and storm surge.

will the republicans continue to deny global warming after this storm?

I do not think so, I believe this storm might turn texas firmly to the democrats

They may be about to find out what happens when a 20-25 foot storm surge goes past protection structures designed for a 15 foot surge. And did you notice what they are protecting?

There is actually some logic to that. A friend of mine lost his home in Chalmette, LA as a result of Katrina. To add insult to injury, a nearby refinery dumped over 70,000 gallons of oil into the floodwater. Insurance paid off his mortgage but he still owes $20,000 on the lot, which couldn’t be sold even if a buyer existed because the ground is completely contaminated.

that would be nice, but not probable

I believe peterr was making the point that we are the republicans are insisting more drilling is safe when even the current drilling is not

(((Tex)))

That’s awful. I read about the prisoners who did Katrina Time – that is, longer sentences just because they were under arrest at the time and the paperwork nightmare that followed.

I feel sorry for the folks in its path. Not because they’re going to be hit by a hurricane (well, I certainly feel sorry for them about THAT), but because they didn’t have the good fortune to be hit by a hurricane during the RNC. Now there’s no reason for Bush or McCain to come visit them or offer to help out. Well, except for simple human compassion of course… BWAAHAHAHAHA… oh, that’s funny. No, seriously, they’re not interested. Sorry Galveston, once again you’re going to weather this one by yourself.

Best of luck, and seriously, everybody come through this alive, ok?

Haven’t scientist said that climate change would result in storms of greater intensity? It would seem that Americans when they had the chance to support candidates that wanted to address the issue of global warming and be proactive in dealing with climate change decided it was more important to elect the guy they would like to have a beer with. Americans of all political persuasions, unfortunately, will now reap the whirlwind. One can only hope and pray for those in the storms path.

Doesn’t the refinery have an obligation to clean up the environmental damage from the spill? seriously while they may not have insurance coverage for an act of God event like a hurricane, they still have a liability. And if the company were to go bankrupt I’d expect CERCLA to cause at least some evaluation and remediation work at taxpayer expense.

Was just looking at the storm and it’s huge. Galveston and Houston are so flat they could be under water really fast. I hope that everyone will be okay – there are sure to be some real problems though.

Don’t mean to play devil’s advocate but drilling isn’t the issue here. Having refineries on the coast is the problem. That won’t change whether we drill more or not, since all our imported oil arrives via tanker.

Of course, IDEALLY we would quit relying on oil and render the issue moot…

Thanks, Peterr. I had no idea Ike was that bad. The local weather shows here in OKC have been saying it would make landfall as a category 2 or weak category 3, made it seem like no big deal.

This isn’t about drilling, but about the refineries.

Just as folks in San Francisco build homes and businesses to protect against earthquakes of a given magnitude, people and businesses along the Gulf Coast build to protect against hurricanes of a given size.

Which is a good idea in both places, until The Big One comes.

How can they do that!?
It’s Galveston

I don’t have an answer, could be the refinery would argue, perhaps correctly, that the ground would have been saturated by other contaminants regardless. There was some talk early on that the refinery might purchase the affected properties, that might have been shelved when a class-action suit was initiated. The suit is still pending. During the interim, the refinery has attempted to persuade former residents to settle out of court but in my friends case, he’d have gotten only about half of what he owes on the property.

Houston chronicle says they’re doing it!

well, overall it is about drilling peterr

no matter how we protect against historical storms we cannot forsee how bad it might become.

yes, it’s about protecting the refineries, (and the local society that relies on those refineries) but that’s tthe point, when we drill in new areas the same ramifications will arise

It isn’t drilling that’s in danger, it’s refining. Do you have some information about how drilling platforms are being damaged? Because that didn’t happen when Gustav came through a couple of weeks ago, and one would think the crews have the emergency shutdown and evacuate drill mastered for this season.

The issue is that a lot of water is coming inland and that will cause flooding, probably some breaches of pipelines inside the refineries and some spills. And for the medium term refining is necessary, we need to separate oil into fractions. We don’t have electric cars or fuel cell vehicles yet.

Placing refineries close to the coast is arguable – there’s risk of spilling from pipelines bringing oil to the refinery.

Yep, that’s the one storm-related prediction they’re confident about. No one can predict whether a particular storm is worse as a result of global warming, but it’s a fact that we’ll have more storms of greater intensity, because intensity is caused by warm water.

The most depressing thing is that even if we elect an administration that actually takes action on this, we can expect stuff like this for the rest of our lives, because even if we take a crash course now to reverse greenhouse gas levels, it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

It was a headline onscreen on broadcast CNN a couple of minutes ago, too.

GOOD! Shame the bastards!

The Chronicle also says they will get them out before the storm comes, but they don’t want to broadcast the when/where/how until after the fact, just as they did with Rita.

40% of Galveston citizens have NOT evacuated (that is a lot of people..someone on another blog said 10-20K people..I don’t know if that is the correct number)…they have just opened a “shelter of last resort”..the local high school, which apparently is not on high ground..

Also, the Mayor of Galveston is saying that they didn’t anticipate this, because the meteorologists didn’t warn them…

Not to mention the horrendous news TexBetsy reports above about the prisoners and staff not being evacuated.

God help them all.

we would be pretty close to energy independance had reagan not rescinded the carter doctrine

I am wondering though, if we harness wind and tide and geothermal, won’t those technologies also affect climate?

if we convert wind energy into electric, that’s wind that would have been responsible for some sort of activity that won’t be happening

for instance, pollenation

the same thing for tidal energy, a wave does something to the ecosystem, change that wave and the ecosystem is changed

Why isn’t Pat Robertson praying the hurricane away? He claimed that his prayers to God helped steer Hurricane Gloria in 1985 and Hurricane Felix in 1995 away from Hampton Roads, Virginia, the headquarters of Robertson’s Christian Broadcasting Network. Doesn’t he care anymore?

I used to live in Houston, and I can tell you that even if it only rains a little, some parts of Houston will flood (especially around Hermann Park Zoo). Houston was basically build on the edge of a swamp.

Something else to watch : Lake Conroe. I think it has a dam. In much less serious times, I’ve heard of the area north of Houston flooding significantly.

East Texas ecologically is Big Thicket country, which has recently been decimated by logging and oil exploration. All those piney woods help soak up the excess water, but with reductions in it, there may be more flooding. And it looks like Hurricane Ike is heading straight for that area.

Bob in HI

The Coast Guard was unable to rescue 22 crew aboard a bulk carrier now without power drifting directly in the path of Hurricane Ike. The 584-foot Cyprus-flagged Antalina reported it lost engine power 90 miles southeast of Galveston 4 a.m. Friday, and was unable to steer or move under its own power. The Coast Guard said the heavy weather made a rescue impossible. Five aircraft from the Coast Guard and Air Force had surveyed the site Friday. The Coast Guard is in hourly contact with the crew of the 28,000-ton ship, who are reported to be in good condition.

link

One may as well accept the reality that the Gulf of Mexico, into the predictable future, will be a monster bowling ball storm factory striking any and all shores which define the Gulf Coast.

It’s time to think outside the gulf.

By pipelines spilling I’m saying that you need to weight the hurricane risk to a coastal (protected by adequate seawalls, etc) refinery against the risk of pipelines to an inland refinery spilling.

Longer term we need to work to have energy that isn’t petroleum based. We’d still have to make decisions about location of power generation or hydrogen production. I wonder what Energy Expert (TM) Sarah Palin thinks about refinery locations.

It’s Texas.

The other big issue, not noted in the post, is the effect of Ike on utilities — electricity, water, sewage, etc.

From Jeff Masters, at the link above:

We can expect Ike to cause the largest and longest-lived power outage in Texas history, with power knocked out along a 200-mile wide swath in eastern Texas and extreme western Louisiana extending 300 miles inland to I-20.

Emphasis added.

God is bowling hurricanes for the few remaining homosexuals in Houston.

I lived in Houston for a year and remember that even with a fairly small rain storm that the streets would have water standing. This is not good at all.

I don’t like myself for thinking this, but how many government contractors are thinking: kaching!?

thanks for this post Peterr. the magnitude was lost on me, esp. after Gustav, now I get it.

Floodwaters are entering Galveston Island and waterfront homes are burning. Bizarre.

Galveston is basically a tall sandbar. There is no such thing as “high ground” in Galveston.

Not qualified to answer any of your questions but here goes. Of course, the wind turns the blades and keeps on moving, although I have wondered about the wind farms impact on flora and fauna, which I’ve yet to hear discussed. I don’t imagine geothermal having an impact (let me reiterate that I am not qualified). Hasn’t Iceland been using geothermal energy for decades? Don’t know enough about tidal power to even offer an uninformed opinion. Don’t think you could do more than delay a wave slightly but the marine ecosystem is pretty delicate…

I’m sure that Neil Bush is thinking kaching. Just like Katrina relief, his mother can give money to a hurricane relief fund on the condition that it be spent to buy educational software from her son Neil’s company. Mission Accomplished!

That was completely despicable. Ma and Pa Bush are still highly regarded, though, despite neither having been a POW. IAIYAR

Yeah, where are all the news reports about Bush (and Cheney?) curtailing their activities to be ready for this storm. They don’t care now that the convention is over.

On a cosmic note, if I was one of Barbra Bush’s “lucky” people who had been evacuated from New Orleans after Katrina and now another killer storm was on its way to my new home in Houston I’d start feeling a little paranoid. Oh wait, the common denominator is Heckuva Job Bush.

That’s Just What I Said

National Weather Service has issued a “certain death” warning: “Persons not heeding evacuation orders in single-family, one- or two-story homes may face certain death. … Widespread and devastating personal property damage is likely elsewhere.”

http://news.nationalgeographic…..e-ike.html

Scary.

Persons not heeding evacuation orders in single-family, one- or two-story homes may face certain death.

sorry to go all linguistic and I know you are just pasting a quote, but that quote is a contradiction of terms

“all linguistic and I know you are just pasting a quote, but that quote is a contradiction of terms”

1) allowing for a miracle
2) covering their a…

The quote as presented in the Houston Chronicle here is a bit more . . . certain:

“Life-threatening inundation likely!” weather service forecasters warned in an official statement to Galveston Island residents living beyond the seawall. “All neighborhoods. . .and possibly entire coastal communities . . .will be inundated during the period of peak storm tide. Persons not heeding evacuation orders in single family one- or two-story homes will face certain death.“

I lived in Houston in the Eighties and a simple rainstorm caused severe flooding. I can’t fathom what Ike might do.

I just heard that about 10,000 people stayed in Galveston.

There was a similar hurricane that ripped Galveston about 100 years ago, and at least one song was written about it. The version that I heard some time ago was eerily captivating. Oddly enough, it was in September then, too. That song may have been rewritten by Tom Rush, and a classic version was done by Tony Rice. Here’s some words:

GALVESTON FLOOD

It was a September evening when the sky was dark and grey
Raging wind and water battled Hell in its sway
The rich folk in the mansions and the poor ones in the dell
Were swept into eternity the story left to tell

Wasn’t that a mighty time
Wasn’t that a mighty time that evening
Wasn’t that a mighty time
When the storm winds struck our town

The men left home that morning with hearts cheerful and bright
With hopes of home returning, but their hopes weren’t raised that night
They kissed their wives that morning ands their little ones so dear
And the skies were cloudy that morning, but no other grief or care
It was a September evening when the storm clouds struck our town
It seemed like God up in the Heavens above looked down at us and frowned
The town was all in a motion, the men with hearts so brave
Prayed to God to have mercy their helpless lives to save

There’s an engineer and a fireman, engineer had a heart so brave
He thought about his wife and his little child
and their helpless lives to save
Says Jack, the tide is rising and we must get across
So they drove the train on over and both those men were lost

It was a September evening when the storm was a raging wild
I saw a woman clinging, Lord, to her husband and her child
The man he battled faithful their helpless lives to save
But they soon were beneath that rolling tide
They had met a watery grave

Well they had a sea wall at Galveston to hold those waters down
But the high tide from the ocean, Lord, put water onto the town
The trumpets gave them warning, they had better quit that place
But they weren’t meant to leave their homes till death stared
them in the face

Now the year was nineteen and hundred, just sixteen years ago
Death throwed a stone at my mother, Lord, and with death she had to go
The cruel sea was a raging and the ships they could not land
I heard a captain crying, Lord, won’t you save this dying man

Now death, the cruel master, when the winds began to blow
Came down on a train of horses, I cried, Death won’t you let me go
The town was all in a motion and the houses gave away
And the people they strived and drowned, Lord, they died most every way

Now the storm was over next morning and when the waters backward rolled
A thousand souls were drowned, Lord, What a sight it was to behold
You can talk about your Brazos and your Johnstown flood of old
But the story of the Galveston flood will never, ever be told

Bob in HI

Houston update:

Mayor and County Judge just announced that everybody is supposed to be off the freeways by 6:30 local time, due to hurricane force winds. Areas under mandatory evacuations will be under curfew from 7pm tonight until 7am Sunday.

Actually, no. The statement means that a certain percentage of homes (exact amount depends on size of storm surge) will suffer from conditions that mean certain death for any occupants.

More on the 1900 Galveston hurricane here (also linked in the post above)

Here’s a taste: 8,000 to 12,000 dead in the deadliest US hurricane ever.

Houston Chronicle reports that the inmates in coastal prisons have been relocated.

There are other versions of the Galveston storm song, referring to the storm 100 years ago. This one may be the Chad Mitchell Trio version:

Wasn’t That a Mighty Storm (Galveston Flood)

WASN’T THAT A MIGHT STORM

CHORUS:
Wasn’t that a mighty storm
Wasn’t that a mighty storm in the morning, well
Wasn’t that a mighty storm
That blew all the people all away

You know the year of 1900
Children, many years ago
Death came howling on the ocean
Death calls, you got to go
Now Galveston had a seawall
To keep the water down, and a
High tide from the ocean
Spread the water over the town

CHORUS

You know the trumpets give them warning
You’d better leave this place
Now, no one thought of leaving
’til death stared them in the face
And the trains they all were loaded
The people were all leaving town
The trestle gave way to the water
And the trains they went on down

CHORUS

Rain it was a’ falling
Thunder began to roll
Lightning flashed like hell fire
The wind began to blow
Death the cruel master
When the wind began to blow
Rode in on a team of horses
I cried, “Death, won’t you let me go”

CHORUS

Hey, now trees fell on the island
And the houses give away
Some they strained and drowned
Some died in most every way
And the sea began to rolling
And the ships they could not stand
And I heard a captain crying
“God save a drowning man”

CHORUS

Death your hands are clammy
You got them on my knee
You come and took my mother
Won’t you come back after me
And the flood it took my neighbor
Took my brother too
I thought I heard my father calling
And I watched my mother go

CHORUS

You know the year of 1900
Children, many years ago
Death came howling on the ocean
Death calls, you got to go

CHORUS

CHORUS

Bob in HI

Thanks, Peterr! No wonder people wrote songs about it.

Bob in HI

sorry to go all linguistic and I know you are just pasting a quote, but that quote is a contradiction of terms

That’s something you’d have to take up with National Geographic and Chris Sisco, a meteorologist at the National Hurricane Center, to whom the quote is attributed.

But, I do apologize for linking to a story with a potentially contradictory quote.

Is McCain on his way to Texas yet?

I haven’t heard a peep from him on Ike. Maybe Superwoman could save the people who stayed.

EPU’ed, I’m sure, but just fyi — fossil fuels cause global warming because they release carbon into the atmosphere that has been stored in solid/liquid form for millennia, which then causes the atmosphere to retain more energy from the sun, not because of the heat they generate directly. Any renewable source (even fuels made from agricultural products or waste) doesn’t cause warming because it’s just releasing carbon that is captured and released as part of the normal cycle of growth and decay.

The amount of energy we extract from wind or geothermal is insignificant on the scale of climate. The reason fossil fuels are significant is that they “leverage” a much bigger power source, the sun, not because they affect climate directly.

We have flooding south of New Orleans. Places that flooded last week are having worse problems…

I hope Ike fizzles before landing. This could be a doozy!

My sister’s ex lost everything in Katrina and moved to Galveston. He is the type who is disinclined to leave. Crazy is another word for it.