… bin Laden exaggeration. And then he said, “and I pray to God that He permits us to turn America into a shadow of itself.” Those were his words.
…

The meeting with bin Laden occurred on 22 Mar 1997.

Has anyone claimed to have heard directly from bin Laden or Zawahiri precisely why they wish to destroy America, who helped them against the Soviets? Is that quote source reliable?

Certainly the negotiations for the trans-Afghan pipeline(s) was underway by ‘97, but again that’s financial stuff. It’s more likely that if they truly hate us it would be for more than money.

There is a lot about all this which remains unknown to the American public. How can we possibly expect Americans or a new Dem administration to make the best decisions with information which Bushies have handled?

I think what’s important to understand is that for Bush, Cheney, Libby, Addington, and Yoo 9/11 was a pretext not a crime. For us, it was a tragedy. For them, it was an opportunity. Getting bin Laden was never really part of the plan.

I think lefty bloggers and many others understand that. Where there is a gap in our knowledge of the Right is between what you write and what Sarah Palin is referring to when she says the “reform” they’re undertaking and the “mission” they’re on. We often imagine it’s just for financial greed and continuation of Republican political power, but that doesn’t entirely fit with the selection of Palin. I suspect the gap in our understanding of the Right exists because they are being stealthy and haven’t revealed their plan in public.

That’s why I’d zero-in on Palin’s reference to “reform” and a “mission” from God. What EXACTLY does she mean? And then, what would it mean for us?

Bob in HI

ROBERT FISK: Well, the last time I saw him, which was ‘97—he did want to see me after 9/11, but I couldn’t reach him. An American air raid was on the road in front of me on my way to see him. But the last time I saw him, he had moved from his hatred of the Saudis, which was still there, into a quite clear fury at the United States. He was starting to talk about them as being crusaders.

And, in fact, the last words he said to me, as we sat in a very freezing mountaintop—I spent the night with his al-Qaeda people in a tent sleeping. I woke up with ice in my hair. And the last words he said to me, and I have my notebooks, which, of course, I will research for this book, and his words were, “Mr. Robert, from this mountain upon which we are sitting, we destroyed the Soviet army and helped to destroy the Soviet Union,” which was an element of truth, though obviously a usual bin Laden exaggeration. And then he said, “and I pray to God that He permits us to turn America into a shadow of itself.” Those were his words. And in my notebook, which I actually took these words down in, I put two lines on each side of the quote. At the time, I wrote, “Rhetoric?” It wasn’t, of course.

Bold is mine. The meeting with bin Laden occurred on 22 Mar 1997.

Meanwhile, I’m not the only one who wonders what the world would look like today if Bush had done what Clinton did:

One week after the U.S. began bombing Afghanistan, the Taliban presented us with an opportunity to investigate the possibility of a peaceful, legal resolution to the crimes of 9/11.

On Oct. 14, 2001, Afghanistan’s deputy prime minister, Haji Abdul Kabir, announced that if the United States stopped the bombing and produced evidence of bin Laden’s guilt, “we would be ready to hand him over to a third country” for trial.

President Bush, determined to launch and pursue the “war on terror,” refused even to discuss, much less investigate this possibility.

A Different Course

Exactly 30 months after 9/11 there was another catastrophic terrorist attack in another country: Spain. On March 11, 2004, 191 people in Madrid were killed and over 1,800 injured when 10 backpack bombs exploded on four morning rush-hour commuter trains.

As with 9/11, “11-M” was the most devastating series of terrorist acts in Spanish history.

But Spain chose the path the U.S. rejected.

The Spanish government addressed the crimes of 11-M with the tools, techniques and resources of law enforcement. There was an investigation, arrests, a trial, and appeals.

This process is today essentially complete.

Spain has demonstrated an effective alternative to war as a means of addressing and resolving the bloody horrors of terrorism.

The Spanish example can thus help us make an educated guess at how things might have gone had the Bush administration not immediately and contemptuously rejected Kabir’s offer of Oct. 14, 2001.

And while such an endeavor can’t undo the past seven years, perhaps it can help us make a better choice next time our leaders tell us it’s time for another war.