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	<title>Comments on: McCain&#8217;s Biggest Lies Are About Obama&#8217;s Tax Cuts</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:13:34 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: AlchemyToday</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625090</link>
		<dc:creator>AlchemyToday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625090</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://obamataxcut.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ObamaTaxCut.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I made this site to send to people who bought into McCain’s lies.  Figure out how much Obama will cut your taxes, etc.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://obamataxcut.com" rel="nofollow">ObamaTaxCut.com</a></p>
<p>I made this site to send to people who bought into McCain’s lies.  Figure out how much Obama will cut your taxes, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625078</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625078</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Isn’t this the line that Joe Klein used about the FISA Amendments Act?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;LOL, yes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Isn’t this the line that Joe Klein used about the FISA Amendments Act?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>LOL, yes.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625075</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1625075</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i read a little bit more (only part way into page 3) and have a few more comments.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1. anyone who uses cass sunstein as a reliable source is suspect after &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/22/obama_adviser_cass_sunstein_debates_glenn&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2. i think the author (david leonhardt) is using the term “free markets” to mean unregulated markets, and then conflating unregulated markets with markets in general. which is just more nonsense. the mainstream debate, imo, isn’t about markets vs something that is not a market - it’s about unregulated markets vs well regulated markets. poorly regulated markets do not make a case for unregulated markets unless of course one pretends, as the author does so far, that well regulated markets can’t exist. this is the same argument the conservatives use about government in general.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3. from page 3:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;The partial embrace of Reaganomics is a typical bit of Obama’s postpartisan veneer. In a single artful sentence, he dismissed the old liberals, aligned himself with the Bill Clinton centrists and did so by reaching back to a conservative icon who remains widely popular. But the words have significance at face value too. Compared with many other Democrats, Obama simply is more comfortable with the apparent successes of laissez-faire economics.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“apparent” i think is an important qualifier here - i’d like to have a list of the real, not just apparent, successes of neoliberalism. and while we’re at it… i’d like to see the very real failures of neoliberalism addressed because so far (page 3) the well recognized failures have been ignored or mischaracterized (failures which have, among other things, given birth to a global social movement and inspired much of stiglitz’s popular writing).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;……&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i’ll try and read more later. because i think it’s an important piece that may give us a good idea where the battles are going to have to be fought with an obama administration. but the dishonest approach of the author is just one more example of how deep the propaganda at the nyt is - this time for conservative economics with pseudo-liberal/progressive facade.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;very sad and frustrating.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i read a little bit more (only part way into page 3) and have a few more comments.</p>
<p>1. anyone who uses cass sunstein as a reliable source is suspect after <a href="http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/22/obama_adviser_cass_sunstein_debates_glenn" rel="nofollow">this.</a></p>
<p>2. i think the author (david leonhardt) is using the term “free markets” to mean unregulated markets, and then conflating unregulated markets with markets in general. which is just more nonsense. the mainstream debate, imo, isn’t about markets vs something that is not a market &#8211; it’s about unregulated markets vs well regulated markets. poorly regulated markets do not make a case for unregulated markets unless of course one pretends, as the author does so far, that well regulated markets can’t exist. this is the same argument the conservatives use about government in general.</p>
<p>3. from page 3:</p>
<blockquote><p>The partial embrace of Reaganomics is a typical bit of Obama’s postpartisan veneer. In a single artful sentence, he dismissed the old liberals, aligned himself with the Bill Clinton centrists and did so by reaching back to a conservative icon who remains widely popular. But the words have significance at face value too. Compared with many other Democrats, Obama simply is more comfortable with the apparent successes of laissez-faire economics.</p></blockquote>
<p>“apparent” i think is an important qualifier here &#8211; i’d like to have a list of the real, not just apparent, successes of neoliberalism. and while we’re at it… i’d like to see the very real failures of neoliberalism addressed because so far (page 3) the well recognized failures have been ignored or mischaracterized (failures which have, among other things, given birth to a global social movement and inspired much of stiglitz’s popular writing).</p>
<p>……</p>
<p>i’ll try and read more later. because i think it’s an important piece that may give us a good idea where the battles are going to have to be fought with an obama administration. but the dishonest approach of the author is just one more example of how deep the propaganda at the nyt is &#8211; this time for conservative economics with pseudo-liberal/progressive facade.</p>
<p>very sad and frustrating.</p>
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		<title>By: LittleMsPurple</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624945</link>
		<dc:creator>LittleMsPurple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624945</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is classic Republican politics… make claims that are outright wrong because people will read/watch/hear them, they’ll believe them and they’re not paying attention to the press when those lies are corrected.  Rove is very proud of the game team McCain is playing right now… the question is, do the American voters finally see through it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is classic Republican politics… make claims that are outright wrong because people will read/watch/hear them, they’ll believe them and they’re not paying attention to the press when those lies are corrected.  Rove is very proud of the game team McCain is playing right now… the question is, do the American voters finally see through it?</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624849</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624849</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;OK, so now you have me reading this article.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The International Monetary Fund has described the situation as “the largest financial shock since the Great Depression.” The details are too technical for most of us to understand. (They’re too technical for many bankers to understand, which is part of the problem.)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Isn’t this the line that Joe Klein used about the FISA Amendments Act?  Besides if you are being hit with the “largest financial shock since the Great Depression”, trust me it isn’t the details that are killing you.  Still this promotes the idea that this is all too complicated for us to worry our silly little heads over.  I would disagree.  Most of what has happened in financial markets is readily comprehensible and was forseeable for literally years.  But if you add in greed, political cowardice, and an infotainment/propagandistic media, then no there has not been much discussion of financial issues&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so now you have me reading this article.</p>
<blockquote><p>The International Monetary Fund has described the situation as “the largest financial shock since the Great Depression.” The details are too technical for most of us to understand. (They’re too technical for many bankers to understand, which is part of the problem.)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Isn’t this the line that Joe Klein used about the FISA Amendments Act?  Besides if you are being hit with the “largest financial shock since the Great Depression”, trust me it isn’t the details that are killing you.  Still this promotes the idea that this is all too complicated for us to worry our silly little heads over.  I would disagree.  Most of what has happened in financial markets is readily comprehensible and was forseeable for literally years.  But if you add in greed, political cowardice, and an infotainment/propagandistic media, then no there has not been much discussion of financial issues</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624822</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624822</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;there is a disagreement - because if you look only at household incomes, instead of individual incomes, you will misdiagnose the problem thinking that it is a feature only of the bush administration instead of the last 30+ years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;imo (and i’ve only read 2 pages so far), the author is very subtly making the case that the neoliberal policies of the last few decades (including during clinton’s time - although much better managed) are not and were not the problem.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;that, imo, is nonsense.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is a disagreement &#8211; because if you look only at household incomes, instead of individual incomes, you will misdiagnose the problem thinking that it is a feature only of the bush administration instead of the last 30+ years.</p>
<p>imo (and i’ve only read 2 pages so far), the author is very subtly making the case that the neoliberal policies of the last few decades (including during clinton’s time &#8211; although much better managed) are not and were not the problem.</p>
<p>that, imo, is nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: Angellight</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624821</link>
		<dc:creator>Angellight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:37:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624821</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That is what you get with GOP, fake fights, fake people and fake wars!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interesting article on Joe Scarborough that has been kept quiet by the MSM!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/a…&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.truthalliance.net/A.....7/a…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Lest, we forget, there would have been no need for a Surge if Bush &amp; Co. had not taken the U.S. into a Phony &amp; Pretend War on Terrorism while the Real War on Terrorism in Afghanistan where Bin Ladin lived, was ignored! And if we do not Wise up this might happen in the future!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/PdJUCU1UH2w&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.youtube.com/v/PdJUCU1UH2w&lt;/a&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In a cleverly pre-emptive strike, McCain is falsely accusing Obama of wanting to teach children sex education because they knew Newsweek will be soon coming out with an article on Sarah Palin! “Judge Warned Palin About Emotional Child Abuse&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is what you get with GOP, fake fights, fake people and fake wars!</p>
<p>Interesting article on Joe Scarborough that has been kept quiet by the MSM!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.truthalliance.net/Archive/tabid/67/a…" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthalliance.net/A&#8230;..7/a…</a></p>
<p>Lest, we forget, there would have been no need for a Surge if Bush &amp; Co. had not taken the U.S. into a Phony &amp; Pretend War on Terrorism while the Real War on Terrorism in Afghanistan where Bin Ladin lived, was ignored! And if we do not Wise up this might happen in the future!<br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/PdJUCU1UH2w" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/v/PdJUCU1UH2w</a> </p>
<p>In a cleverly pre-emptive strike, McCain is falsely accusing Obama of wanting to teach children sex education because they knew Newsweek will be soon coming out with an article on Sarah Palin! “Judge Warned Palin About Emotional Child Abuse</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624818</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624818</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks. good point about increases in #hours worked per week (on or off the books).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;seemed to me that the author was confusing the issue by only mentioned household income, instead of individual. but as you point out, it is more complicated than that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks. good point about increases in #hours worked per week (on or off the books).</p>
<p>seemed to me that the author was confusing the issue by only mentioned household income, instead of individual. but as you point out, it is more complicated than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Scarecrow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624816</link>
		<dc:creator>Scarecrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624816</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t see any disagreement in what the author said — economic expansion doesn’t lead to increased family incomes — and what you/Selise are saying — which relates to the fact that more people had to work longer hours just to keep up.  The two views seem consistent, complementary.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t see any disagreement in what the author said — economic expansion doesn’t lead to increased family incomes — and what you/Selise are saying — which relates to the fact that more people had to work longer hours just to keep up.  The two views seem consistent, complementary.</p>
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		<title>By: anwaya</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624815</link>
		<dc:creator>anwaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/mccain-continues-to-lie-about-obamas-tax-cuts/#comment-1624815</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And MayDaze, that would be a &lt;b&gt;tax increase&lt;/b&gt; on everyone with health insurance. McCain, raising taxes. On the middle class, what’s more. Why isn’t this front and center? Obama proposes cutting taxes on the middle class, while McCain wants to raise them.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;John McCain: More of the same.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So much for straight talk, too.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And MayDaze, that would be a <b>tax increase</b> on everyone with health insurance. McCain, raising taxes. On the middle class, what’s more. Why isn’t this front and center? Obama proposes cutting taxes on the middle class, while McCain wants to raise them.</p>
<p>John McCain: More of the same.</p>
<p>So much for straight talk, too.</p>
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