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	<title>Comments on: Consumers Just Beat Off-Shore Drilling</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/</link>
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		<title>By: ltgra</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1626056</link>
		<dc:creator>ltgra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1626056</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Maximum 500 lb cars. Minimum 100 mi per gallon mileage . Five year limit to reach  zero gas guzzlers /assault vehicles off the road and we are back in business and without losing a thing.  I ride a bicyle for most of my commuting. But I live within blocks of a recycled railroad trail.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maximum 500 lb cars. Minimum 100 mi per gallon mileage . Five year limit to reach  zero gas guzzlers /assault vehicles off the road and we are back in business and without losing a thing.  I ride a bicyle for most of my commuting. But I live within blocks of a recycled railroad trail.</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625442</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625442</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;More BS about the cause of the &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;very&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; short-term price fluctuations in the oil commodities market.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What’s far less plausible than this is the notion that a $40 dollar drop in a matter of weeks is due to Americans conserving.  What rot!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First of all, I don’t see Americans conserving on the road.  They’re still driving 80mph on the hwys, by and large; the level of traffic has not fallen; the average size of a vehicle is still that of a barn; and people are still buying the same.  I see more brand-new SUVS, Yukons, Expeditions, and what have you on the road despite the cost of fuel which is still very high in terms of historical trends.  They only explanation for that is they can’t fit their fat asses in more reasonable sized cars.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People are by and large being burned by all this money being used to bail out the banks and other financial institutions.  People with that money are looking for ways to invest it where they can, in a situation where fewer and fewer opportunities to make a killing actually exist.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This butt-headedness of the writer of this blog has got to end sometime.  Might as well admit your bleeding wrong, now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More BS about the cause of the <strong><em>very</em></strong> short-term price fluctuations in the oil commodities market.</p>
<p>What’s far less plausible than this is the notion that a $40 dollar drop in a matter of weeks is due to Americans conserving.  What rot!</p>
<p>First of all, I don’t see Americans conserving on the road.  They’re still driving 80mph on the hwys, by and large; the level of traffic has not fallen; the average size of a vehicle is still that of a barn; and people are still buying the same.  I see more brand-new SUVS, Yukons, Expeditions, and what have you on the road despite the cost of fuel which is still very high in terms of historical trends.  They only explanation for that is they can’t fit their fat asses in more reasonable sized cars.</p>
<p>People are by and large being burned by all this money being used to bail out the banks and other financial institutions.  People with that money are looking for ways to invest it where they can, in a situation where fewer and fewer opportunities to make a killing actually exist.</p>
<p>This butt-headedness of the writer of this blog has got to end sometime.  Might as well admit your bleeding wrong, now.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625305</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625305</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In my scandals list at entry 365, I recount how excessive speculation has been affecting crude oil markets since 2004.  The AP story is essentially right that about half of the money that entered the futures market this year as moved back out.  This is in part due to getting out ahead of expected regulatory changes and unwinding positions.  This move also dovetails with reducing pump prices before an important election.  I think some may be to cover bad debt from the housing collapse and cash out to firm up the financial health of the investment banks behind the speculation.  And there has been some decline on the demand side.  I should point out that at $100/bbl crude is still trading at roughly twice its rational price.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree that all the talk about drilling is election year BS.  It would represent a giveaway to oil companies that already have millions of acres of unexploited leases.  There really aren’t the rigs available for drilling.  For some of the deep water areas, it’s not clear that the technology is there or that the EROI (energy return on investment) is worth it.  Ten years is the figure most often heard and sounds about right for getting to the point of pumping.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my scandals list at entry 365, I recount how excessive speculation has been affecting crude oil markets since 2004.  The AP story is essentially right that about half of the money that entered the futures market this year as moved back out.  This is in part due to getting out ahead of expected regulatory changes and unwinding positions.  This move also dovetails with reducing pump prices before an important election.  I think some may be to cover bad debt from the housing collapse and cash out to firm up the financial health of the investment banks behind the speculation.  And there has been some decline on the demand side.  I should point out that at $100/bbl crude is still trading at roughly twice its rational price.</p>
<p>I agree that all the talk about drilling is election year BS.  It would represent a giveaway to oil companies that already have millions of acres of unexploited leases.  There really aren’t the rigs available for drilling.  For some of the deep water areas, it’s not clear that the technology is there or that the EROI (energy return on investment) is worth it.  Ten years is the figure most often heard and sounds about right for getting to the point of pumping.</p>
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		<title>By: TobyWollin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625279</link>
		<dc:creator>TobyWollin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Scarecrow..here is how I know that speculators did it to oil..because at the same time, they were doing it to natural gas also, which has nothing to do with Iran. This year, during the same period, for my job, I watched natural gas(during a time when there was no constraint on supplies, pipeline capacity, or high demand) prices go absolutely through the roof; in fact, they were almost three times what they ordinarily are during that period. We watched the money going into the market for this as well; when the money ran for the doors and oil came down, the same exact thing happened to natural gas prices.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scarecrow..here is how I know that speculators did it to oil..because at the same time, they were doing it to natural gas also, which has nothing to do with Iran. This year, during the same period, for my job, I watched natural gas(during a time when there was no constraint on supplies, pipeline capacity, or high demand) prices go absolutely through the roof; in fact, they were almost three times what they ordinarily are during that period. We watched the money going into the market for this as well; when the money ran for the doors and oil came down, the same exact thing happened to natural gas prices.</p>
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		<title>By: prostratedragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625270</link>
		<dc:creator>prostratedragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625270</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Doing too many things for the next hour or so to read carefully, but I think it’s the same one, and that the IG report might be just coming out after having been sat on for a while.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/what-republicans-really-mean-when-they-say-drill-baby-drill/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EW has been on parts of this for a while&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doing too many things for the next hour or so to read carefully, but I think it’s the same one, and that the IG report might be just coming out after having been sat on for a while.</p>
<p><a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/what-republicans-really-mean-when-they-say-drill-baby-drill/" rel="nofollow">EW has been on parts of this for a while</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: gmoke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625261</link>
		<dc:creator>gmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625261</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Demand destruction is good and efficiency is even better.  However, efficiency in existing electrical generation and cogeneration using waste heat to produce electricity can go online much more quickly than 6-8 years.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thomas Casten of Recycled Energy talked at MIT on September 9 about doing just that:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Casten’s company has captured waste heat and improved efficiency on an industrial scale.  In a steel smelter in northwestern Indiana, his company converted the waste heat from coke ovens to generate 220 MW of electricity and 400 MW of thermal energy, process heat and steam.  He calls this clean energy as it doesn’t burn any additional fuel or emit any additional pollutants but simply captures what was once waste.  This saves 916,000 metric tons of CO2 annually, the equivalent of removing 166,000 cars from the road.  This also results in lower energy costs for the plants involved and a saving of almost $100 million annually.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Another project involved recapturing waste energy from an 80 year old silicon processing plant in Alloy, West Virginia.  Recycled Energy is investing $84 million to turn the furnace heat into 45 MW of clean energy, reducing CO2 emissions by 290,000 metric tons per year and lowering energy costs so that this plant will become the world’s lowest cost producer of silicon.  The silicon manufacturer will use the savings to open another furnace and add 30 more industrial jobs.  This attention to reducing CO2 reduces costs, increases productivity, and creates jobs.  Somebody please tell that to Senator Imhofe.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;More at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/10/125348/584/999/592931&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....999/592931&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demand destruction is good and efficiency is even better.  However, efficiency in existing electrical generation and cogeneration using waste heat to produce electricity can go online much more quickly than 6-8 years.</p>
<p>Thomas Casten of Recycled Energy talked at MIT on September 9 about doing just that:</p>
<blockquote><p>Casten’s company has captured waste heat and improved efficiency on an industrial scale.  In a steel smelter in northwestern Indiana, his company converted the waste heat from coke ovens to generate 220 MW of electricity and 400 MW of thermal energy, process heat and steam.  He calls this clean energy as it doesn’t burn any additional fuel or emit any additional pollutants but simply captures what was once waste.  This saves 916,000 metric tons of CO2 annually, the equivalent of removing 166,000 cars from the road.  This also results in lower energy costs for the plants involved and a saving of almost $100 million annually.</p>
<p>Another project involved recapturing waste energy from an 80 year old silicon processing plant in Alloy, West Virginia.  Recycled Energy is investing $84 million to turn the furnace heat into 45 MW of clean energy, reducing CO2 emissions by 290,000 metric tons per year and lowering energy costs so that this plant will become the world’s lowest cost producer of silicon.  The silicon manufacturer will use the savings to open another furnace and add 30 more industrial jobs.  This attention to reducing CO2 reduces costs, increases productivity, and creates jobs.  Somebody please tell that to Senator Imhofe.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>More at <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/10/125348/584/999/592931" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/&#8230;..999/592931</a></p>
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		<title>By: bobschacht</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625256</link>
		<dc:creator>bobschacht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625256</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Double trouble&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry to be pedantic, but I think we have trouble with a double negative here. Strike the “not”. Your posterity will be better. *g*&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
it will probably take 8 to 10 years to license and construct a nuclear facility (no new nuclear plant has not been licensed in the US for 30 years).&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob in HI&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Double trouble</p>
<p>Sorry to be pedantic, but I think we have trouble with a double negative here. Strike the “not”. Your posterity will be better. *g*</p>
<blockquote><p>
it will probably take 8 to 10 years to license and construct a nuclear facility (no new nuclear plant has not been licensed in the US for 30 years).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Bob in HI</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625250</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625250</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;denver and the west&lt;br /&gt;
Report: Interior, oil firms too cozy&lt;br /&gt;
Feds say inappropriate ties may explain a rash of accountability issues.&lt;br /&gt;
By Miles Moffeit&lt;br /&gt;
The Denver Post&lt;br /&gt;
Article Last Updated: 08/24/2008 12:52:41 AM MDT&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Related&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;    * Sep 10:&lt;br /&gt;
    * ‘Culture of Ethical Failure’ at MMS Reinforces Influence of Big Oil&lt;br /&gt;
    * Gov’t officials probed about illicit sex, gifts&lt;br /&gt;
    * Interior Dept. scandal: Sex, drugs, energy deals probed at Denver office&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Federal investigators are preparing to release a report detailing improper relationships between Interior Department officials who oversee &lt;strong&gt;offshore drilling &lt;/strong&gt;and oil executives, including golf outings, ski trips and romantic liaisons. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10281004?source=rss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10281004?source=rss&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Maybe there are two scandals, because this is dated last month and yet this is being reported by TPM and Countdown right now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>denver and the west<br />
Report: Interior, oil firms too cozy<br />
Feds say inappropriate ties may explain a rash of accountability issues.<br />
By Miles Moffeit<br />
The Denver Post<br />
Article Last Updated: 08/24/2008 12:52:41 AM MDT</p>
<p>Related</p>
<p>    * Sep 10:<br />
    * ‘Culture of Ethical Failure’ at MMS Reinforces Influence of Big Oil<br />
    * Gov’t officials probed about illicit sex, gifts<br />
    * Interior Dept. scandal: Sex, drugs, energy deals probed at Denver office</p>
<p>Federal investigators are preparing to release a report detailing improper relationships between Interior Department officials who oversee <strong>offshore drilling </strong>and oil executives, including golf outings, ski trips and romantic liaisons. </p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10281004?source=rss" rel="nofollow">http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10281004?source=rss</a></p>
<p>Maybe there are two scandals, because this is dated last month and yet this is being reported by TPM and Countdown right now.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625248</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625248</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;continuing…. i should also say that hugh called this one long before it was on my radar.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>continuing…. i should also say that hugh called this one long before it was on my radar.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625247</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 00:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/10/demand-side/#comment-1625247</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I haven’t been able to find the full report, either. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;several of our congress critters have statements to the effect that they have released the report. i’ll call tomorrow morning and see if i can’t track it down.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;for example:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/mi01_stupak/20080910speculation.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;STUPAK UNVEILS NEW REPORT ON ENERGY SPECULATION&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Continues to push for passage of PUMP Act to rein in speculators&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;WASHINGTON – U.S. Congressman Bart Stupak (D-Menominee), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, joined House and Senate colleagues today in releasing a new report about the vast size and influence of speculators in the oil futures market.  Stupak continued his charge to stop excessive oil speculation through federal legislation.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I haven’t been able to find the full report, either. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>several of our congress critters have statements to the effect that they have released the report. i’ll call tomorrow morning and see if i can’t track it down.</p>
<p>for example:</p>
<blockquote><p><a href="http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/mi01_stupak/20080910speculation.html" rel="nofollow">STUPAK UNVEILS NEW REPORT ON ENERGY SPECULATION</a><br />
Continues to push for passage of PUMP Act to rein in speculators</p>
<p>WASHINGTON – U.S. Congressman Bart Stupak (D-Menominee), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations, joined House and Senate colleagues today in releasing a new report about the vast size and influence of speculators in the oil futures market.  Stupak continued his charge to stop excessive oil speculation through federal legislation.</p>
</blockquote>
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