Amen I say to you. As a Catholic. And Zed.

Everything but opposition to abortion is a venial sin. The mortal sin is allowing choice.

The Eucharist Nazis will shout “No Eucharist for you!”.

Another case of IOKIYAR.

we should be cautious when making judgments about whether or not someone else should receive Holy Communion.
I couldn’t help myself from editing this. Isn’t that what Christians who really want to follow Jesus’ commandments?

One wonders how many american bishops and cardinals are repugs?

Addington’’s a Catholic? *shudder* That really creeps me out this morning for some reason.

As an old friend who is a Jesuit once informed me, “Marie, the Roman Catholic Church is not a democracy, it’s an oligarchy. So watch it!” We were talking about why the Church won’t allow either abortion or birth control, so Catholic women are always caught in a double bind. Oligarchy? Old Boys’ Club might be a better term (disclaimer time- I admit to having left the Catholic Church many yrs. ago over the birth control/control of women’s reproductive rights issues, so JMHO).

The quote is from a document that deals solely with Holy Communion (and not only the question “when should someone be refused Communion?”).

Not that your edit is wrong about Christian theology, but I want to give the writers of the original document credit for sticking to their subject.

Great title in Juan Cole’s Salon column.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/f…..mentalist/

Didn’t the cameras catch Mr. 9/11 taking Communion earlier this year at Yankee Stadium when the Pope said mass there?

Tom Leher doin the Vatican Rag

I was a Roman Catholic. I bolted after Confirmation — and never looked back.

The Catholic church is nothing more and nothing less that the world largest, wealthiest and best organized pedophile cult.

Gotcha. And, I agree with your questions about who might/should be denied the Eucharist for other sinful choices.
As a Methodist, I try hard (not hard enough some times) to Think and Let Think.

I would guess many of them are torn. Abortion pulls them toward the GOP, and that’s a big issue for many of them, but the GOPs stance on immigration, the death penalty, endless war, and other issues pushes them toward the Democrats.

If I’m not mistaken, Rs have made abortion the ONLY issue, and the rest doesn’t matter. Ds, as usual, roll over & play dead in pointing that out.

Yes. Along with a number of the pro-choice pols, too.

Thanks Raven. My sweet Irish Catholic husband introduced me to that one. Hadn’t heard it in a while.
(genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!)

Check out “send the marines”, “wwIII (so lomg mom I’m off to drop the bomb” and “Werner Von Braun”

Peterr, did you see Joe Biden’s excellent response to Tom Brokaw’s question about his Roman Catholicism and his vote on abortion? You might have been “at work”, but if you missed it, I will look for a link.

It depends where you are the bishop.

A number of bishops who preside over a diocese with a large number of immigrants (legal or otherwise) are very, very disgusted with ICE, their immigration raiding tactics, and the racism that often accompanies them. Very disgusted.

But the media has seized on abortion as “the issue”, encouraged by the anti-abortion crowd, and so that’s about the only time you see the RC bishops making the national news.

When was the last time you heard KO, Fox, CNN, CBS, or anyone else talk about the pope’s opposition to the war in Iraq?

Remember that thingie about critiquing the speck in your neighbor’s eye when there’s a log in your own? Religious right (and Catholic Church?) seem to conveniently dodge that one.

Really terrific piece Peterr. It’s first rate on the doctrinal issues. Thank you.

Before anyone is a Roman Catholic, a Catholic, or a Lutheran or a…, they are baptized as a Christian. That means they believe Jesus of Nazareth revealed God’s salvation.

IMHO, Speaker Pelosi’s strongest leverage is here:

Will Roman Catholic priests be denied the Eucharist for their acts of sexual abuse of minors? Will Roman Catholic bishops, archbishops, and cardinals in other places be denied the Eucharist for putting their church’s reputation ahead of the safety of “the least of these,” the children entrusted to their care?

Over the last couple of generations the Vatican has played a shell game with local dioceses in the US and Europe. It’s clear that incriminating documents were sent to the Vatican to keep them out of the hands of local prosecutors.

Pelosi should encourage DoJ to use Ricco statutes to investigate.

Haven’t looked at the link yet, but I will. “First you get down on your knees, fiddle with your rosaries, bow your head in deep respect and genuflect, genuflect, genuflect.” Close?

When was the last time you heard KO, Fox, CNN, CBS, or anyone else talk about the pope’s opposition to the war in Iraq?

Don’t expect to ever hear it. War is macho and anyone who’s against it is, well you know what…

digg

hey – I took Communion a few months ago at my aunt’s funeral.

Maybe God’s attention was diverted there for a moment – I didn’t spontaneously combust – wasn’t struck by lightning, or suffer any other horrible horribleness.

Shoot, if one didn’t didn’t know better one might think He was glad I was there….

You’re right — I missed it because I was working.

But the Toobz are a wonderful thing . . . Here’s the link.

Here’s a snip:

MR. BROKAW: . . . If Senator Obama comes to you and says, “When does life begin? Help me out here, Joe,” as a Roman Catholic, what would you say to him?

SEN. BIDEN: I’d say, “Look, I know when it begins for me.” It’s a personal and private issue. For me, as a Roman Catholic, I’m prepared to accept the teachings of my church. But let me tell you. There are an awful lot of people of great confessional faiths–Protestants, Jews, Muslims and others–who have a different view. They believe in God as strongly as I do. They’re intensely as religious as I am religious. They believe in their faith and they believe in human life, and they have differing views as to when life–I’m prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception. But that is my judgment. For me to impose that judgment on everyone else who is equally and maybe even more devout than I am seems to me is inappropriate in a pluralistic society. And I know you get the push back, “Well, what about fascism?” Everybody, you know, you going to say fascism’s all right? Fascism isn’t a matter of faith. No decent religious person thinks fascism is a good idea.

MR. BROKAW: But if you, you believe that life begins at conception, and you’ve also voted for abortion rights…

SEN. BIDEN: No, what a voted against curtailing the right, criminalizing abortion. I voted against telling everyone else in the country that they have to accept my religiously based view that it’s a moment of conception. There is a debate in our church, as Cardinal Egan would acknowledge, that’s existed. Back in “Summa Theologia,” when Thomas Aquinas wrote “Summa Theologia,” he said there was no–it didn’t occur until quickening, 40 days after conception. How am I going out and tell you, if you or anyone else that you must insist upon my view that is based on a matter of faith? And that’s the reason I haven’t. But then again, I also don’t support a lot of other things. I don’t support public, public funding. I don’t, because that flips the burden. That’s then telling me I have to accept a different view. This is a matter between a person’s God, however they believe in God, their doctor and themselves in what is always a–and what we’re going to be spending our time doing is making sure that we reduce considerably the amount of abortions that take place by providing the care, the assistance and the encouragement for people to be able to carry to term and to raise their children.

All in all, very well done.

…Do what ever steps you want if
You have cleared ‘em with the Pontiff.
Everybody say his own Kyrie Eleison
Gettin ecstatic & kinda dramatic &
Doin’ the Vatican Rag…

Did you go to confession first? (Rhetorical Q. Don’t feel you need to answer it.)

One might, indeed.

Lehrer wrote The Vatican Rag in response to changes in Church ritual implemented by Vatican 2.

Booyah!! I loved Lehrer. I’m sure he’d have been pleased.

Juan Williams saying great concern about her/Sarah’s religious beliefs…God’s plan for war, etc.

Excellent questions Peterr

may i add one complex fear… will my quiet Catholic cousins who live honorable lives quietly be denied the host… how many host police will it take to find all the quiet ones, who live with honor and balance what they are told to do with what they know is just?

after the big guns are cleared out, will the little ones be investigated too?

What trend are we watching here?

“He’d have been pleased”? He’s still around — just not very visible in public these days.

Listening to C-Span now. The McCain supporters: “abortion, abortion, abortion!”

I was very encouraged by the whole interview.
I’m hoping he gives the number one on his tickets some tips, ya know?

Did you go to confession first? (Rhetorical Q. Don’t feel you need to answer it.)

Oh, but I love rhetorical questions. *g*

No – there’s a time-management issue there – as in “How’s, say, Tuesday thru Friday for you?”

Primarily because of Nino Scalia’s bullshit about cafeteria Catholics, I can never resist the opportunity to link to this 1930 encyclical

Casti Connubi

According to it, Roman Catholics cannot have sex after the woman can no longer bear children.

The author Pius XI was relatively sane, espcially when compared to the psychopath who followed him, Hitler’s pope, aka Pius XII. If Pius XI had lived longer, he would have given Churchill and FDR the evidence of the holocaust that the Vatican had.

In addition to being a virulent anti-semite, Pius XII wanted to use WWII to catapult the Vatican back into a place of temporal power. By suppressing evidence of Hitler’s atrocities against semitic peoples (and about a million Polish Catholics), he thought he could position the Vatican to broker the piece between the Axis and Allies. Turned out to be a bad effing strategy.

OT, look at the birth rates of Roman Catholic familiess since Humane Vitae, Pius VI 1966 statement about birth control. Roman Catholics in huge numbers are defying papal teaching and using artificial forms of birth control.

Being against abortion AND birth control requires a stupidity which dwarfs monumental.

So we have the Pope, the Ayatollah, George Bush etc. decreeing how we shall comport ourselves in order to be aligned with their dogma and allowed in their good grace(s). Zero tolerance. Well, except for that run-amok priest thingie, holding American hostages for upwards of a year, and screwing not Monica Lewinsky but the American people for eight. Yeah, I woke up on the cynical side of the bed again.

True, but I only used to be pleased. Now I am renewing my pleasedness.

I’m catholic and at least in my church, it’s been much more of a soft sell this election. Oh yeah. the church embraces the just war doctrine:

The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

i’m sure all our catholic politicians were guided by this in considering the Iraq War. Right?

I thought Vatican 2 brought a change where there are priests in confessionals during mass so those who need to go to confession before communion can do so on the spot. But then it’s been half a century since I went to mass other than as a cultural event, so I may be out of touch. *g*

Being against abortion AND birth control requires a stupidity which dwarfs monumental.

So true. But to pick a nit, you forgot to include that “right to life” almost invariably includes support for the death penalty.

I doubt it.

It’s hard to “quietly deny” someone the host, when you’re standing up there in the front of the sanctuary with everyone looking in your direction. The Eucharist is a public event, and word gets around fast when something like that happens.

The most authoritative and up-to-date expression of just war doctrine is found in paragraph 2309 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It says:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

–the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
–all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
–there must be serious prospects of success;
–the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the “just war” doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

easier to read I hope.

I don’t want to go into generelisation, yet, I see bishops and cardinals as men of power. A bunch of double authoritarians, who would certainly be tear proof… Hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Kinda OT, but saw a great bumper sticker yesterday:

I’m already against the next war.

More on choice, I’ll have to defer to those who are more scientifically fluent than I.

I am pretty sure that the technology the Roman Catholic hierarchy recommends for naturally family planning is identical with the technology in post-rape birth control. While there are difference, the plan in both is to keep the fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall.

For years I have hoped that choice supporters would attack the Catholic hierarchy on this.

Bullseye.

Thank you.

Excellent point, thanks.

Old joke from my Dad, who was the only Protestant in a sea of Roman Catholics on Mom’s side of the family- Do you know why Catholics invented the Sacrament of Confession, kids? So they could have something to confess.

Pop was always respectful but somewhat bemused by the rituals/sacraments of the Church, particularly Confession (Sacrament of Reconciliation it’s called now, yeah?) & Communion.

No, the death penalty is where the Right Wing Roman Catholics part ways with the Protestant Fundies. If anything will break up that unholy alliance, it will be the death penalty.

Being against abortion AND birth control requires a stupidity which dwarfs monumental.

Wait awhile (decades) and that will change.

One of the many RC doctrines that drove me out of the church as a teenager was unbaptised babies (with original sin) never got to go to heaven. How ridiculous is that? How unfair? I was outraged.

So a few years ago, when RCs need to convert & keep Africans in the flock, they reverse that doctrine, owing to the fact that in Africa, infant mortality is high and priests are rare, so probability of infant dieing before baptism is real.

Hypocrisy is not unique to religion, it is just heavily concentrated there.

not where i go to church. last time i went to confession, i hadn’t been in over 20 years. I had no idea what to do. I only went because i was told it was much more informal, much more conversational. so we’re sitting there looking at each other across a desk. finally I say “Do I still have to go ‘Bless me father for I have sinned’?” He says yes. So much for informal and conversational. never went back.

Seems like I am in the company of many former catholics like myself. Seems like there is not much difference between now and when the church was persecuting people for believing the earth was round and not the center of all.

OT,
Anyone have a link to the Armed Services Committee live stream on Georgia Russia conflict?

Thanks firepups.

((((Barbara and David))) (((Esten))) (((Quaker Girl))) and (((noonan)))

But as men of power, they also are concerned about the power that would be exercised against them. Thus, they might like the GOP on abortion today, but fear what the GOP’s authoritarians might decide to shove down the throats of the nation on other things tomorrow.

Why am I not surprised? BTW, I object to calling someone “father” who is supposed to be celibate.

Conservative Roman Catholics love to live in a fantasy world where dogma is timeless.

One of the best ways to blow them out of the water is to mention centuries of papal teaching prohibiting Catholics from engaging in any kind of usury. All that got overturned in the 20th century. Popes change their minds all the time about everything. And that’s when they’re not just flat talking out of both sides of their mouth.

yeah. it’s reconciliation now. it’s still intimidating. my daughter was so frightended of going to her first confession, er reconciliation. also her last.

Thanks Peterr, makes sense.

Yep, that’s the one that “kills” me. All the devoted TX Baptists et al who love that ol’death penalty, and please do not think there is a rational conversation to be had. We have a Houston leg/rep. who claims Biblical authority for the death penalty in the Jesus example that he let himself be killed. Good enough for Jesus, dontchakno

There is something so primitively satisfying in wanting to kill all those people, and something horrifying in its appeal to a TX mind…like the mindless W. But clearly not the only one.

so I may be out of touch.

well – me too. What I was trying to say was that unless a priest had a few *days* to spare, a full confession would be problematic.

Maybe it could be broken down into specific categories – and then break it out into:

Tuesday – Week One – Social sins

Tuesday – Week Two – Political sins and evil thoughts

Tuesday – Week Three – various and sundry incidences of extreme ass-holeish behavior in general.

Has a priest ever fainted in da Booth, I wonder?

Another example in my 54.

Gee, all this reliving of something I left behind so long ago. Never expected that there would be reason to bring it all up again, and distressed to do so.

Btw, Peterr, I left my family church over a conflict with the pastor regarding Communion. Touchy subject for many, huh?

And I have esp. objected to calling someone “Holy Father” when he is clearly human.

Thanks for the explanation. I had missed your point.

Additionally, who could remember all her sins? Even before senility sets in, it would be a hopeless task.

Oh, if you’ve got a link to that legislator’s theological musings, I’d love to see more.

Good grief!

I wonder: did he take the analogy all the way, and bless state sponsored torture as well? (”Hey, if Jesus could take it from the Romans, it must be OK for us to do it to the folks at Abu G and Gitmo . . .”)

No, the death penalty is where the Right Wing Roman Catholics part ways with the Protestant Fundies. If anything will break up that unholy alliance, it will be the death penalty.

well, that’s good to know.

Let’s get on with it, I say.

Ha ha. I’m guessing that they, like many therapists, have heard It All.

Gee and I thought RC birth control was for a woman to take an aspirin

and hold it between her knees

Being told “you can’t come” to the big family dinner doesn’t sit well with most folks, whether you’re talking about the Christmas feast at Grandma’s house or the Eucharistic feast in church.

(((JClausen))) !

Nostalgia. Long time since I’ve heard that one.

With all the popcorn eating that goes on around here, I must remind of another old one: Did you hear about the woman who fell asleep eating popcorn? When she woke up, she found a colonel between her legs.

That is so close to what I was told! Do the old fashioned way…that would be keep your feet in a bucket. I guess I paid for that medical advice.

Luther won and he is still winning.

Indulgences, the rich paying for time out of purgatory, RC’s came over to Luther’s position.

Increased emphasis on scripture. RC’s came over to Luther’s position.

Scripture in the vernacular, RC’s came over to Luther’s position.

Reduced emphasis on praying to saints aka idol worship, RC’s came over to Luther’s position.

General confession in the RC Church is another Luther triumph.

If you want to see Luther’s influence on Liturgy, check out Eastern rite Catholic Churches. Statues hanging everywhere and three-hour liturgies. It’s a legitimate Xtian form of worship, but the Roman Catholic Church has thrived, because they moved away from the orthodox towards so many of Luther’s liturgical ideas.

With the exception of married priests (from both genders), number of sacraments (history supports Luther was correct there were never SEVEN sacraments) and some others, Luther’s theological insights have really carried the day with Roman Catholic popes.

OT – I see the Chimp’s face on my teevee, which is now muted, of course.

Backdrop says “National Defense University” – (?)

just wondering:

(a) Whether His Chimpiness is still bitching about the Irakis not being grateful enough for “all that we’ve done for them”, and

(b) Just what kind of criteria must be met for acceptance as a student at “National Defense University”?

I can do a little looking into. Doubt there is much written. I have heard him myself because I was involved in some work against the death penalty. He had no reservations/qualms about taking that life. A true fundie and teaches Sunday School.

I think he is talking about getting those troops out of Iraq…the announcement that Petraus had hinted at….for around the first of the year.

Niederauer to Pelosi: The difference between us is that I lead and you advocate.

Not religious so I won’t say anything to offend anyone.

Actually, I was told I couldn’t serve. I was leading one of the services and had planned everything around the scripture telling the story of Jesus on the road to Emmaus (sp?) The message was about Jesus’ table fellowship. The day before the service I found out that the pastor decided to go out of town and that communion was being postponed. I decided to go with the service I planned anyway. I didn’t “serve”, but had the congregation stand in a circle and we each served each other. Man, was I busted!

I call the current RC hierarchy, church mice. IMHO, the bishops especially are made up a very high percentage of closeted and very twisted gay men.

FWIW, once you restrict your workforce to only one gender and the promise of lifelong celibacy, it dramatically cuts down on the number of applicants. A high percentage of the Roman catholic priests who are not child molesters are simply not very bright guys. They give terrible homolies and many couldn’t hold a job at a fast food place.

Heh.

Although to be accurate, Benedict is still fine with indulgences.

Bush is talking about taking 8,000 troops out in a Friedman unit. So we’ll have to see. Even if this comes off, troop levels in February 2009 will still be about 4 to 6 thousand higher than before the surge.

I am concerned this could be attributed as injurious to GLBT FDL’ers who I love and respect.

That was not my intent, but I am fumbling to say that a lot of bishops and Catholic priests know they want to have sex with men (and underage boys) and engage in it. Then, they preach against it.

Apologies for not stating that in a way that was more respectful to men and women who deal with their orientation as adults in a responsible and transparent way.

Jane is upstairs with a little bookkeeping squabble from Alaska.

Who could have anticipated . . . ?

Thanks.

I am not surprised.

Benny16 is a real smart church mouse.

When John 23 was pope he was a great theologian. As the pendulum swung back to the inquisition, Benny led it every step of the way.

He’s a real bad guy.

Still, in a hierarchical organization — whether you’re talking about the Roman Catholic Church or the Office of the Speaker of the United States House of Representatives — there are official spokespeople who speak for the organization, and others who can offer their private opinions.

reason #999 why i’m not a fan of hierarchical organizations.

But we have the Irish and they’re alot of fun.

As a Catholic, I kind of bristle sometimes at the criticism of the Church I hear. Oftentimes rooted in ignorance (even the crirticism of other Catholics) and, know it or not, often imbued with prejudice. This post was great. Thanks.

Most people here know that I can be a brat sometimes, but in my defense, I made it extremely clear that they were Not Consecrated Elements, that this was a sharing in honor of what he told us to do at the Last Supper. And, it did not go against the current Methodist Doctrine regarding the Sacrament of Communion.
It was more of an ego thing, I think. Oh, well, gave me an opportunity to check out new churches. :) My faith is a journey.

There is no outcry by Catholics or Christian Fundamentalists for the millions of discarded cell clusters (snowflake babies) from Fertility Clinics.

What happens to all the unimplanted embryos?
It is reasonable to assume that they die and are thrown out with other biohazard material (garbage). Whose turn is it to clean out the fridge?

Nobody says a damn thing about fertility clinics.

The could have tossed Bobby, Ted and John F. Kennedy after the refused to implement the Church’s interpretation of divorce and contraception on the American public, as well.

What the Catholic Church, and all these religious faiths that expect their followers to impose doctrine on “non-believers” (of other faiths or none at all) seem to forget is that in a Democracy (or a Republic) an elected representative serves ALL of the Citizens. It’s the duty of the pastor, minister, preist, Bishop to communicate and convert others to the Church…not the politician.

If the Church doesn’t like that they can admit that they are opposed to Democratic and Republican principles, that they expect it’s followers to impose, using the power of law, its doctrine upon non-members…

They should be honest about it.

Another solution would be to ban ALL members of that Church from political office…given that a Democratic system is inextricably opposed to any and all forms of doctrine being equally able to be manifested in law. Of course, the Catholic and other churches would never allow THAT as a solution…since they see politics as a means of introducing doctrine on unwilling others. Unwilling–because if everyone was following the doctrine there would be no need to enforce it by the power of the State.

the = THEY. Fast fingers.

Sorry if my rants came off as anti-Catholic.

I meant to rifle my criticisms at the hierarchy which deserve them.

I was raised Catholic and I think the Xtian faith, properly interpreted, can be a tremendous humanizing force.

Certainly the Lutherans in Germany were no better than Catholics in resisting Hitler. IMHO, the Catholics having a leader in Italy, had more leverage. Lutherans and other protestant denominations did not have that.

Also Pius IX was officially neutral during the U.S. Civil War. I hope Speaker Pelosi reminds the SF Archbishop of that.

Good point, but I’m not sure you’re 100% accurate on this. I don’t have a link right now, but I know I have read stuff from conservative Catholics about this.

Your wider point, however, is right on target, imho. The fertility clinics don’t come in for nearly the amount of criticism that women pregnant by the traditional process face.

Well…depends on the variant of Xtianity. For Catholics, the person being baptized usually doesn’t believe in anything. They are infants and incapable of forming any actual religious belief (or any other for that matter).

For adult converts or other denominations, your mileage may vary. For Mormons, those “baptized” don’t even necessarily know they are being baptized. They do it in absentia for you to “save your soul” for you regardless of your actual beliefs.

Martin Luther exposed the sham for all to see when he nailed his 95 point theses in 1517 to the Wittenberg church door. I think he saw the light when he couldn’t “really” change the wine into Christ’s blood.

It took that long since the Council of Nicea in 350 AD for someone to speak up.

People need to distinguish between:
— advocating a legal right to abort
— asserting a moral right to abort.

In general, “it displeases God” is not an appropriate reason to make something a crime. I’m sure that God is more than equipped to take care of his/her own displeasure.

Just a couple of points. Isn’t Clarence Thomas an episcopalian? I thought he married a former Catholic nun in the episcopalian church. I may have this wrong, or he may have converted, but that’s what I remember.

And unless Catholics have received a church-approved annulment, they can’t receive Holy Communion. It’s been that way forever. These days, that’s not such a big problem because annulments are pretty regularly given; all you need is big cash for the process. That may not continue, however. The Archbishop Raymond Burke you mention as the (now former) Archbishop of St. Louis has been sent off to Rome to be in charge of the council that approves those annulments. I don’t think its a big coincidence that they got him out of the country before the election. The Church hates bad publicity, and he really likes to through his weight around with politicians.

The fact that the Church isn’t looking for more publicity is probably why Nancy Pelosi’s bishop called her in for a chat rather than making some public scene. Old-time hardline Catholics were probably very offeneded by her remarks on MTP. They are mostly right-wing Republicans, so they don’t like her anyway.

THis is great Peterr please do a follow up post!

If Scalia and other torture advocates continue to receive the Eucharist while anti-torture pro-choice politicians are made unwelcome it will be a very serious matter.

Nancy Pelosi has very interesting roots in American Catholicism. She is a product K-12 and College of the Sisters of Notre Dame de Namur, and everything about her public style, body language, manners and all the rest reflects that deep influence. Among others who also had this background, well Tip O’Neill for starters. I’d put the vast numbers schooled by an order of nuns that has as it’s mission the strengenthing of the Middle Classes in the Wake of the French Revolution — and particularly making certain that Women had a leading role in that — up against a new Archbishop who has yet to establish himself in his Archdiocese any day of the week. In particular, given that Bank of America is a pretty big deal in San Francisco — and it is Italian Founded, I give Pelosi a good deal of informal power should she want to suggest its use. The Catholic Church is hardly immune to informal social power, and the Hierarchy, particularly new boys who have yet to establish themselves, are not the only players.

No, Thomas is a Roman Catholic.