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	<title>Comments on: Why Is Environmental Defense&#8217;s Krupp Calling On Green Groups To Avoid Talking About Global Warming?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/</link>
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		<title>By: Primrose</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618479</link>
		<dc:creator>Primrose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618479</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bulls eye — but, do we want to turn into the people we despise?  How do we get out from under that one?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We deserve to win — on the merits.  What is our win if we resort to the Limpbalz tactics?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The “I just wanna win” mentality leaves the door open for the scum in our own party to rise to the top.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Messaging is great!  THAT’s what we need and don’t have.  Concise messaging for the low information voters.  And on that I suspect we can agree.  (If we’re so smart, why can’t we figure out how to make jokes, laugh like a fat man, and let go of one liners that exquisitely make our point?)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bulls eye — but, do we want to turn into the people we despise?  How do we get out from under that one?</p>
<p>We deserve to win — on the merits.  What is our win if we resort to the Limpbalz tactics?</p>
<p>The “I just wanna win” mentality leaves the door open for the scum in our own party to rise to the top.  </p>
<p>Messaging is great!  THAT’s what we need and don’t have.  Concise messaging for the low information voters.  And on that I suspect we can agree.  (If we’re so smart, why can’t we figure out how to make jokes, laugh like a fat man, and let go of one liners that exquisitely make our point?)</p>
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		<title>By: padfoot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618445</link>
		<dc:creator>padfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618445</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt; But, there are cyclones and typhoons and hurricanes in seemingly greater numbers.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yes, global warming is occuring, yes hurricanes occur, and yes hurricanes occur in the warming environment. But as your quote shows, cause and effect are in the realm of “seemingly”. When you want to fight with facts, don’t introduce possibilities. The facts on global warming and its consequences are clear enough that trying to throw in the hurricane argument is not necessary. Moreover, it just gives the other side an example of “weak link”, literally and figuratively.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> But, there are cyclones and typhoons and hurricanes in seemingly greater numbers.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yes, global warming is occuring, yes hurricanes occur, and yes hurricanes occur in the warming environment. But as your quote shows, cause and effect are in the realm of “seemingly”. When you want to fight with facts, don’t introduce possibilities. The facts on global warming and its consequences are clear enough that trying to throw in the hurricane argument is not necessary. Moreover, it just gives the other side an example of “weak link”, literally and figuratively.</p>
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		<title>By: A Siegel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618332</link>
		<dc:creator>A Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Absolutely on target …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Err on the side of ‘Extreme’ caution and don’t engage full bore.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely on target …</p>
<p>Err on the side of ‘Extreme’ caution and don’t engage full bore.</p>
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		<title>By: A Siegel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618329</link>
		<dc:creator>A Siegel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618329</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Katmh …&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks … now that it is posted, I can’t correct … &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Evidently it was not a Jewish hurricane?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katmh …</p>
<p>Thanks … now that it is posted, I can’t correct … </p>
<p>Evidently it was not a Jewish hurricane?</p>
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		<title>By: ratfood</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618304</link>
		<dc:creator>ratfood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618304</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Those baby mooseback ribs are mmm-mm good.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those baby mooseback ribs are mmm-mm good.</p>
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		<title>By: demi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618300</link>
		<dc:creator>demi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618300</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What?  Are you eating oysters?&lt;br /&gt;
***&lt;br /&gt;
I want an electric car.  But, then the electricity has to come from somewhere.&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe I’ll move to Alaska and start getting around on Mooseback, but then there’s the big oil bad karma.&lt;br /&gt;
What to do?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What?  Are you eating oysters?<br />
***<br />
I want an electric car.  But, then the electricity has to come from somewhere.<br />
Maybe I’ll move to Alaska and start getting around on Mooseback, but then there’s the big oil bad karma.<br />
What to do?</p>
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		<title>By: confusethecat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618298</link>
		<dc:creator>confusethecat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618298</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Seems to me that Krupps memo reflects very well the problem that plagues progressives — we don’t get messaging.  You think right-winger, anti-environmental activists are worried about whether they will be called on the accuracy of the fine print of their (boneheaded) claims?  Absolutely not, but here is Krupp, fretting about whether we will be accused of politicizing the hurricane for purposes of the environmental movement, just because we cannot say “This particular hurricane was caused by global warming”.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we keep censoring ourselves like this, we lose.  Right wingers message EVERYTHING to politicize it, and they don’t particularly care if they have technical clarifications in the fine print, because they know that people don’t really pay attention to the fine print — they pay attention to the main message.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And in this case, the main message should be (in my opinion): “These kinds of hurricanes — more frequent and more severe — are exactly what we would expect in a world whose climate is changing because of human activity.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Messages with ifs, buts, corrections, footnotes are fine for technical studies and IPCC reports, but these are lost on the general population.  Our side doesn’t get that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me that Krupps memo reflects very well the problem that plagues progressives — we don’t get messaging.  You think right-winger, anti-environmental activists are worried about whether they will be called on the accuracy of the fine print of their (boneheaded) claims?  Absolutely not, but here is Krupp, fretting about whether we will be accused of politicizing the hurricane for purposes of the environmental movement, just because we cannot say “This particular hurricane was caused by global warming”.  </p>
<p>If we keep censoring ourselves like this, we lose.  Right wingers message EVERYTHING to politicize it, and they don’t particularly care if they have technical clarifications in the fine print, because they know that people don’t really pay attention to the fine print — they pay attention to the main message.</p>
<p>And in this case, the main message should be (in my opinion): “These kinds of hurricanes — more frequent and more severe — are exactly what we would expect in a world whose climate is changing because of human activity.”</p>
<p>Messages with ifs, buts, corrections, footnotes are fine for technical studies and IPCC reports, but these are lost on the general population.  Our side doesn’t get that.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618297</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618297</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-rory-oconnor-shock-jocks-hate-speech-talk-radio/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Book Salon upstairs on the Worst Shock Jocks&lt;/a&gt; on the air.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-rory-oconnor-shock-jocks-hate-speech-talk-radio/" rel="nofollow">Book Salon upstairs on the Worst Shock Jocks</a> on the air.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618294</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618294</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;drill baby drill&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>drill baby drill</strong></p>
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		<title>By: ratfood</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618293</link>
		<dc:creator>ratfood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/09/06/eds-krupp-calls-on-green-groups-to-avoid-talking-about-global-warming/#comment-1618293</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;So, Big Oil has allowed some wetlands projects to proceed and in exchange all we have to do is pretend there is no potential risk to the environment from offshore drilling and forget about global warming, the GREATEST of all environmental catastrophes, which if allowed to continue unabated will eclipse all others? Seems fair…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Big Oil has allowed some wetlands projects to proceed and in exchange all we have to do is pretend there is no potential risk to the environment from offshore drilling and forget about global warming, the GREATEST of all environmental catastrophes, which if allowed to continue unabated will eclipse all others? Seems fair…</p>
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