Here’s how it usually works: public official says X, the media plays it up as bigger than it was meant factually. Public official then has to rollback the media spin, the other side gets their hands on it and blows it out of proportion entirely. More walk back ensues and then every side of the issue gets peeved. It’s no wonder most pols don’t open their mouths about anything of import these days if they can help it.
Which made the Biden statement kind of intriguing.
Howie wrote it up, pointing to some reporting on ABC. I had previously seen it in the TelegraphUK as well. Then, this appeared, sort of walking it back — but not in the usual way:
Asked about the comment this morning on Fox News, Biden said it is Congress — not a potential Obama administration — that is investigating the White House.
And he denied today that an Obama administration would launch criminal investigations against the 43rd president of the United States.
"The Obama-Biden administration is not going to start off saying, "God, let’s go take a lot at what [happened]." The American people want to know what we’re going to do, not what happened."
I’d like to think that Biden means it when he says Congress is looking into this thoroughly. And that he trusts them to get to the bottom of criminal activity, and that a new administration’s DOJ would prosecute wrongdoing whose statute of limitations hasn’t yet expired.
When we were at the DNC in Denver, I had a chance to speak with Sen. Leahy about the SJC’s efforts, and he was clearly beyond angry at what has happened with the DOJ’s reputation and the Bush Administration’s devastating impact on the rule of law. But he is one Senator, albeit a fairly powerful one, out of 100 — and, sad to say, too many of the others aren’t willing to risk sticking their necks out for justice.
What I do not want? The same zombie criminals like John Poindexter, Richard Perle, Dick Cheney and their ilk rising from the Iran-Contra crypt to once again "serve" in government, recycling their retread cliches to line the pockets of their pals while they fear-monger our way to a worse, conservative tomorrow.
And if there is no accountability? I fear that is exactly the future we can expect. Again. Haven’t we all had enough of this, yet?
(YouTube — The Rainmakers, Let My People Go-Go.)
Related posts:
- The Anti-Bush, Or Bush Lite?
- White House Denies Existence of Indefinite Detention Order; ACLU Demands Accountability
- McCain, Lieberman Schooled on Rule of Law by Kris, Johnson
- Bush Punted on GM and Chrysler — But Not Cerberus
- DPC to Continue Drive for Oversight, Accountability for Iraq and Afghanistan Contractors
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It is one of the hardest concept that these bad actors are going to skate on all their criminality
I’m not greedy. All I want…is the truth. All of it. Every slimey, scummy, petty thing. All out in the sun so everyone can see it.
*Rule of Law!
*Only applys to non-Republicans
-G
No..I AM greedy. I want a long row of stocks put in DC in front of the White House, in Lafayette Park. and I want Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Gonzalez and all of these guys to have to spend time there, rain or shine, tomatoes or cucumbers, in front of everyone who passes by, with a big sign saying, “These people lied to the American People and made us all very afraid.”
More sunshine, less bygones.
Ding, ding, ding..we HAVE a winner!!!
We’ll see.
Absolutely gorgeous monarch butterfly on my deep purple butterfly bush right now. The bright orange of the wings just pops against the purple of the flower. Too pretty!
there will never be any accountability of these thieving, lying, murderous assholes.
look at the majority embrace of sarah palin; bullyboy thuggery is the american way.
Have been thinking a lot lately about the seemingly general embrace, or at least tolerance, of thuggery.
How, when and why did that happen? It seems to infect so many cultural themes that we may be becoming a bit inured to it.
It’s all about 1998.
The Democrats saw what happened to the Republicans when they went full-on for impeaching Clinton over a dress: The GOP planned to win 60 seats in the House alone and at least half a dozen Senate seats, pretty much a replication of the slaughter the GOP experienced in 1974 as a result of Watergate. Instead, the Senate was a wash (they won an Illinois seat on corruption charges, but we took out Al D’Amato, the Senate’s biggest impeachment pusher) and the Dems, without much campaigning, won five House seats.
However, what the Dems forget is that the public knew in 1998 that the attacks on Clinton were bogus. Furthermore, the Dems also forget the sheer rage triggered by Ford’s blanket pardon of Nixon — the act that not only guaranteed Ford would lose in 1976, but that the Republicans would go down in flames in the 1974 midterms.
The moral: Unjust impeachments hurt the impeachers, but dodging a just punishment is deadly as well.
My next door neighbor has a butterfly bush I can see right out my kitchen window. During the past couple years I’ve seen species of butterflies stop for refueling that I never realized passed this way.
btw, the YouTube cracked me up. Enjoy! *G*
Saw at least 3-4 colors of butterfly bushes across France…… They were lovely …. have some great pictures for you but need to get them together to send them to you…
Abramoff and Duke Cunningham are in prison. Who else went to prison? Free are: Libby, Rove, Rummy, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Gonzo, Slam Dunk, Goss, Bolton, Bolten, Kevin and Kathy Martin, The young DOJ women from Regent U, Cheeny and Shrub.
Of these, who will likely stand trial? Who will to prison?
I want accountabilty let me clear about that.
I think Obama’s campaign has to be careful about giving the Republicans a sound bite that will be turned into talking point about a witch hunt, and/or power grab before the election.
For a relatively unknown figure previous to the primaries, who is African-American, he’s blazing new ground. He has to do it with finesse to overcome any lingering concerns about his race and him being unknown.
He has to earn the trust of the people and with the economy in shambles, global warming/energy, Iraq, health care all looming large in the mind of voters, (most of which is the result of the criminal activity) people want to know how the government is going to help them through this mess first and foremost.
I think he’s doing that, and will make the connection between the problems and the criminal activity because of his ability to connect to voters. It may not be what I want to hear and see right now, however I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
A-yep. The media would call it “being partisan”. Which is of course bad, but only when Dems do it.
well. we could always consider some type of truth commission: requiring administration malefactors to recite their crimes, submit to hearings, and then accept a “plea” by which they agree to permanently exclude themselves from public life (or at least elective politics), in exchange for immunity.
You nailed it.
The Decider will be signing pardons by the dozens between November and January.
Governments hold their people in thrall, and are past experts at it.
Works every time.
I think it is going to depend on how massive is the Democratic victory in November. If the thugs are reduced to their redoubts in the South and the southern Great Plains, I think there is a good chance that Leahy and Waxman can get some traction on housecleaning. I think, however, that they and the new administration are going to have to cut some quiet deals with the corporate elite who actually run this country, to reassure them that the targets will remain limited to the main crooks, and that their wealth won’t be touched. Obama’sbig challenge here is to get the corporatcracy behind him. If he can’t, he will still do good things, but he will not be able to get the rot out of government.
I am thinking of how Konrad Adenauer managed to get a lot done in Germany cleaning out the rot there, even though he had to make deals with alot of people who had done more than a little business with the Nazi regime. On its own, the American de-nazification effort would not have done much.
None of us are going to be terribly happy, but we should be thankful for whatever crumbs of honesty can be restored in the short run, and hope that we can successfully push for more over the next eight years. The Reagan revolution put this country in a very deep hole, and we won’t be getting out of it any time soon.
In a just world, not only would the Bush regime be punished but Congress (with the exception of Henry Waxman, Dennis Kucinich, and a handful of others) would be held accountable for acting as an accessory to their crimes and failing to fulfill their oversight responsibilities.
I worry about the DOJ’s viability without exposing a lot of this in the clean-up, frankly. And I know that Sens. Leahy, Feingold, and Whitehouse, among others, are worried about that as well — especially in long-term thinking. As are a number of former DOJ and USAtty folks and judges on the federal bench. We’re hoping to get more conversation on these issues going in the upcoming weeks, and I’m working to put together some online panel discussions on the topic. More about that hopefully with First Monday this week…
the thing i really don’t get is if leahy is so pissed off, why doesn’t he start organizing some real investigative hearings to get to the bottom of things (not like the mostly lame ones we’ve been watching, although to be fair conyer’s hearings are even more lame).
actually, leahy i cut more slack than most because he and his staff were actually threaten by the anthrax attack. but still… so long as sibel edmonds isn’t permitted to testify, i can’t believe that leahy or any of the other D chairs are doing anything to seriously bring sunshine to the most important issues. :(
Malignant Reaganoma
Christy can Bush grant a pardon for a crime that has not been litigated. It seems that granting a pardon assumes that crime has been committed. For him to grant a pardon means that he would be declaring these people guilty. If they haven’t even been charged with a crime how could that possibly work?
OT – this snippet from TPM is a little disturbing. As if they would have done this if it were not an election year.
this is the first year since moving to MA i’ve had monarch caterpillars on the milkweed i plant for them. as a kid, i can remember easily finding many many caterpillars – not like nowadays.
Ford pardoned Nixon for unlitigated issues, IIRC…
While noting that I am not qualified to speculate (but doing it anyway), that would have been my assumption but during recent months I have heard discussion of the possibility of a preemptive blanket pardon.
I want to see a full and complete presidential pardon for each and every evil-doer in the Bush administration. That way, the international courts and foreign governments (acting under the doctrine of “universal jurisdiction”) and indict them and try them in absentia, and even offer rewards for their capture, etc. It’s the only way they’ll ever be brought to justice. They’ll not see justice in the United States unless someone powerful would profit from it, either financially or politically. And none see profit in it now.
Right. That pardon was never tested in court, but the consensus is that it would stand up.
I disagree. Look at the historic unpopularity of Congress after 2006. They are unpopular because they have failed to oppose the administration. More noises about accountability from Obama would help, not hurt, IMO.
Can RICO charges be brought? Can monetary awards be made to the US? High enough so that they could never live above the poverty level.
The problem as I see it is that everyone inside the Beltway overthinks the issues, and underestimates the public. If instead of trying to guess based on 1998 or 1973 what this action or that will do in 2008 or 2009, they were to instead simply DO THEIR JOBS, I believe the public would support the outcomes.
So Congress should investigate and hold hearings, because THAT’S (part of) THEIR JOB.
But of course, Congress’ failure to do their job in the past is part of the problem now. They have sold off too much control to corporations, and as a result independent journalism is now a thing of the past. So where in the past journalists might have supported Congress in doing their job, now the corporate media will castigate Congress for doing its job if Congress threatens corporate profits (in the form of regulatory oversight, etc.)
We need, among other things, a Truth and Reconciliation style investigation to uncover the truth of what’s going on in Washington. And if doing so would trade removing corporate control of Congress for amnesty to the biggest crooks, I’d take it. Because if we can remove corporate control of Congress, democracy will outlive any of the bad actors, but if we don’t remove corporate control of Congress, then American democracy is already dead.
The Democrats could have turned on the searchlights after 2006 election and brought some high powered discovery and the consequence of consequences to the GOP and Bush/Cheney WH.
We know that is not what happened.
More and more it looks like both American ‘two party’ system parties decided after the fall of Soviet Union that the planet was ripe for big push towards the PNACs dreamed for American Empire.
Bill Clinton laid the groundwork for what now transpires in ex-Soviet Union Georgia. Clearly Dick Cheney has no issues with this Clinton WH act.
Rule of Law? That looks to be more and more like a game of “kick the can” for the current Democratic ‘leadership’ in Congress.
Harry Reid will not even take Joe Lieberman off Senate Democratic roster.
It would be surely wondrous if the Democratic Party would go after this Bush/Cheney regime and tar McCain/Palin with day after day expose and light of day shining in on Bush/Cheney record of rule of law mockery,being Big Oils gofers and playing fast and loose with the truth and facts.
It is all low hanging fruit seemingly enough.
Which is why it was and still is such a mystery why Democrats did not go after the GOP and Bush/Cheney WH after 2006?
It is not adding up regarding Iraq Occupation and Georgia and why the Democrats did not gear up for some serious oppositon politics after 2006.
Tons of expectations on both sides,enthralling the people by “energizing” them. Give up expectations and you cannot be enthralled. You give up expectations by becoming more aware.Let go of opinions and truth has a chance to emerge. You will then know the way.
“…the three most difficult tasks in life are neither physical feats nor are they intellectual achievements. Rather they are moral acts: …
1. To return love for hate.
2. To include the excluded.
3. To say, “I was wrong.”
-Sydney Harris
Sweet song to my ears.
We might be able to find them some subsidized housing in Cuba. Maybe they can get jobs working on the Cuba/China oil pipeline.
I’ve had enough, that’s for darned sure.
Excellent overview of how things get mucked up, Christy.
Just excellent.
Now, how do we spread this Good News, the truth is always good news, to the heathens?
If ‘any’ Republican stands even a snowballs chance in hell..then this USA does NOT stand a snowballs chance in hell! If a Republican can get elected nowadays this country is OVER, finished, kaput..stick in the proverbial fork. If the fascists outnumber the democrats, small d, then America is screwed baby it’s over!
I too would like nothing more than to see these crooks in jail but when you have an AG who won’t move the ball down the field and you have major actors who claim executive privelege. The ability to do many of these things is greatly hampered. Some of the favorable court rulings have just come out. Until after the elections any serious attempts will result in rethugs screaming political attack.
The FISA debacle is a telling sign. It exposed powerful Democrats (including Hillary, Biden and Obama) as being beholden to telco interests. These Republican-lite Democrats prefer running smokescreens for Corporations to protecting the Constitution and, by default, the interests of the common citizen (viewed primarily as a consumer of corporate goods-er-services).
What the trade off on that bill was that the rethugs wanted immunity for both the telkos and the government perps. The trade off was that the telcos go free but the govt. perps don’t get immunity.
A special Second Monday First Monday? :})
Howie upstairs with the Blue America contest
And some good news!
Neither do telco executives and employees have immunity from criminal prosecution. Bushco sez: Prove It (Bring It On!). We own the DOJ and I’ve got the pardon stamp. Go Cheney Yourselves!
Truth and Justice is what I want. You broke the law you go to jail for the correct amount of time for the crime committed, including Murder, treason and other such crimes that carry capital punishment for such crimes. It is the only way to stop this from ever happening again. We owe it our children and their children to give to them what we were given by the founding fathers in all their amazing wisdom. They tried very hard to make sure our system would endure with all of it’s checks and balances in place.
Yes he can grant a “Political Pardon.” I like to differentiate between what is a “Political Pardon” (i.e. symbolic) versus a “Legal Pardon” (or “Get.Out.of.Jail.Pardon”), which the Constitution allows a President to give to someone who has been convicted and who is willing to accept the pardon for his/her crimes.
Ford granted Nixon a “pardon.” That pardon took, however, because it was a signal to his own justice dep’t that any indictments would be meaningless and any conviction would end in a pardon. Bush 41 also granted pardons (IIWC) to Casper Weinberger and others unindicted coconspirators, which effectively took the wind out of the legal sails of future investigations into the various Republican Iran arms related conspiracies.
While President Bush may issue something that he will characterize as a “pardon,” it does no free anyone from legal jeopardy if they have been yet been convicted. A person needs to have a conviction and a pre-conviction status to which they can be “restored.” Restoration is the basis of a pardon and without a conviction, there is nothing to be restored.
You will be hearing much more on this issue between now and December.
A key obligations we have is to educate the press (and our colleagues on the “angry left” too), and our elected officials so that they understand this BEFORE Mister Bush begins telling them that he has this power, which in fact he does not.
I suspect one of the reasons the Cheney/Bushes have been quiet on the pardon front is that they do not want people digging in too deeply into the legal limits of pardoning. Their thinking likely goes that (1) they can get away with it and (2) if they makes appear like “it’s too late” or “uncertain” then the Democrats won’t have the stomach to fight and will just move on.
More to come on this.
sláinte,
-cl
Could we begin the lists of those acts that appear to possible convictions? Not to assume that would be done, but ones that meet the elements: anyone else in the Plame outing, lies about going to war, acts of cover up in abu Gh case, the AG/lies, contempt of Congress re. sub poena, lying to Fitz., torture. What would it take to collect a sort of Probably Cause list of offenses?
We need to MAKE them conduct the investigations, which must be independent, thorough and open. We then need to ACTIVELY support any recommended criminal charges.
For Dan,
Heather
I think Biden needs to hear from a LOT of Americans. I for one am going to tell him that finding out what happened is JUST AS IMPORTANT as finding out what we are going to do in the future.
Our system of government has been taken apart piece by piece until it is finally not recognizable as America. If Biden is not going to be part of the solution, then he is as much a part of the problem as Bush.
But if they don’t do it, don’t forget to always support and vote for the Democratic Party forever, no matter what! That’s the only way to create hope and change – they know it and we know it.
remember, D is for Change!
So, in all honesty, I can’t decipher what it is you are advocating.
Vote Republican?
Vote Ron Paul?
Vote Nader?
Write in Senator Clinton?
Don’t vote?
Hating or perhaps just opposing Senator Obama seems to be your pursuit.
What is your point?
my point?
I only state the unstated, in my special way.
indeed, many of these unstated sentiments I sense are the unspoken assumptions underlying the discourse in the Progressive Netroots, for example, that More and Better Democrats are the path for the Marathon of Hope to follow, that the Obama-Biden ticket must be supported and voted for even if, and thats a big if, they are not perfect in every way, after all sometimes the perfect is the frenemy of the good.
impossible, and wrong to attribute such things to everyone, and please don’t take it personally, everyones view are complex not simple, I’m just trying to express what is often unstated, and let it stand on its merits!
and, a brief uncloaking:
Bush, Cheney et. al, have, by their rhetoric, debased and largely destroyed valuable words like ‘freedom.’ These words were our common heritage, now we have to look for synonyms, our thoughts and ability to express has been crippled.
the term “Liberal” has been debased by all the right-wing hatemongers, now it is tactical to say ‘Progressive.’
so, what gets my guff about Obama? I think he is doing the same thing to valuable, useful words like ‘hope’ and ‘change’ when in reality he represents the status quo, more managerial, with better branding.
those words will be tarnished amongst those who believed the hype, as he escalates the war in Afghanistan, as he has promised, and the innumerable other betrayals in store. Single-payer health care? Ha! Precluded by another 8 years of a corporate controlled, DLC, neo-con Democratic Administration.
the very word ‘Hope’ will ring hollow after Obama is done with it, and I have higher hopes for Hope!
Well the Star Trek rhetoric aside, I’m with Voltaire…
The perfect is the enemy of the good.