I’ve never been a huge Joe Biden fan, although I was happy enough with his selection as Obama’s running mate. I knew Obama wasn’t going to pick someone great like Russ Feingold, Barney Frank or Donna Edwards so I was happy to see him pick someone competent who would help him win electoral votes. Then yesterday I read something that gave me real hope– not the kind from a bumper sticker, the kind that I never thought I would see in American politics. Ironically, the hope came from a British newspaper, the Guardian, and it held out the chance for something even better than impeachment: criminal charges against Bush.
Like everyone, I missed the ABC-TV revelation, fascinated instead to be watching the slo-mo Sarah Palin train wreck. But Biden is actually talking about making right what Nancy Pelosi got so very, very, very wrong and tarnished her historical achievement.
Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden said yesterday that he and running mate Barack Obama could pursue criminal charges against the Bush administration if they are elected in November.
…[H]is statements represent the Democrats’ strongest vow so far this year to investigate alleged misdeeds committed during the Bush years.
"If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation, they will be pursued," Biden said during a campaign event in Deerfield Beach, Florida, according to ABC.
"[N]ot out of vengeance, not out of retribution," he added, "out of the need to preserve the notion that no one, no attorney general, no president– no one is above the law."
Obama sounded a similar note in April, vowing that if elected, he would ask his attorney general to initiate a prompt review of Bush-era actions to distinguish between possible "genuine crimes" and "really bad policies."
"[I]f crimes have been committed, they should be investigated," Obama told the Philadelphia Daily News. "You’re also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we’ve got too many problems we’ve got to solve."
Congressional Democrats have issued a flurry of subpoenas this year to senior Bush administration aides as part of a broad inquiry into the authorisation of torturous interrogation tactics used at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp.
Three veterans of the Bush White House have been held in criminal contempt of Congress for refusing to respond to subpoenas: former counsel Harriet Miers, former political adviser Karl Rove, and current chief of staff Josh Bolten. The contempt battle is currently before a federal court.
[Cross-posted at Down With Tyranny.]
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FITZ for AG
,i>The contempt battle is currently before a federal court.
Which reminds me – when does the chicken-shit congress go back “to work”?
”Will Bush and Cheney Really Face Criminal Charges?”
Nope.
The answer is shamefully NO.
I could seriously enjoy a parade of FrogMarching bootlickers .
Pollyanna here. I think there is hope for criminal trials. War trials. There has to be, or else we forfeit our respect worldwide. The rest of the world is waiting for the election.
man, it is really hard comming into these threads, I hope they fix the problem soon, it’s getting hard to post here
anyway, from what I read about biden’s quote, it looked to me like he’s taking aim at the easy mark, gonzales
it is the only way we might reclaim our integrity on the fast track, otherwise it will take a generation of brown nosing and ass kissing the international world
we take these criminals and charge them we can avoid the ass kissing
I hope nobody is going to try to refer anything to the DOJ now for investigation. As long as Mukasey is still AG, he will just insist on not pursuing charges no matter what they find. Anything done by the DOJ under Mukasey from this point until the election will be along the lines of voter suppression or voting fraud, which they have to have the cooperation and corroboration of the DOJ and the AG for anyway. Might as well hold stuff until we have a chance of getting something constructive done.
Worse, imo, not only will we not stop, we will get much worse.
Two ways
no way
no fucking way
it’s an energy suck
I hope they do prosecute this administration they certainly deserve it for all the crimes from torture to failure to uphold his office in the whole Katrina mess… allowing so many citizens to die is plain ass wrong.
Our country deserves such accountability after so many years of lack of such Constitutional duties to do so.
We do not do so at our own peril!!
Oh, man. No way the Repubs are going to let fair elections go forward with this hanging over their head.
Get ready for some new legal theories. Like one that says that if the President pardons someone, then destroying evidence of their crimes, by necessary extension, can not be obstruction of justice. Or that if one has reasonable expectation of a pardon, any contempt of court or contempt of congress or perjury is fully permissible and deemed to be in good faith.
Since Bush can’t pardon himself, I am sure we will see him step down for a few hours before Obama’s swearing in, Cheney will take the oath of office, and pardon Bush, along with issuing a blanket pardon to every republican who has ever worked for the federal government. Scalia, Roberts, Alito, Thomas and Kennedy will find that to be OK, and an army of crooks will walk.
Then they will start the coup, just when nobody expects it.
The NewsHour just had a McCain hagiography. He doesn’t talk about being a POW. He came away from his captivity a more serious man –which no doubt explains his dumping of his first wife and boinking the heiress trophy wife.
“Kick the ball, Charlie Brown! Kick the ball!”
Remember back in the leadup to the 2006 mid-terms, when John Conyers was making all these positive noises about impeachment? And what happened?
Much as I’d like to see it happen, the Dems in their current incarnation will never lay charges against Bush or Cheney. Never.
Biden’s own language is a giveaway: “IF there has been a basis… ”
And Obama’s the same: “IF crimes have been committed…”
They both know perfectly well that crimes have been committed. Heck, the Dems even VOTED for the passage of criminally unconstitutional legislation!
If he’s serious, he could start here
Thanks for this, Howie. I really want to believe that Obama and Biden would do this. It is the only way back to the civilized world for our country.
[What happened to the Digg button?]
How many times will John McCain give the thu8mbs-up, with both hands, arms outstretched, tonight?
Over/under = 47
How many times will it take to make Beerfart puke?
1
I don’t know if the Dems will go through with it, but it should certainly raise more campaign funds. I, for one, will send money to candidates who say that they are for a really serious investigation of this pair of thugs.
Just the signs of a campaign that has been wounded and is trying to appeal to progressives.
The GOP Convention is off to an extremely nauseating start tonight. They are doing everything they can to appear as the Party that supports minorities by showcasing the few minority delegates there by rewarding them with speaking roles. They have many women speakers blasting Democrats as the party that doesn’t understand how capable women are. This is a skillfully produced Karl Rove presentation. Thank God for Saint John! I’m ill…
The only way to go after Bush and Cheney is impeachment or the International Criminal Court or a national court that claims universal jurisdiction. None of these seem likely. I’d love to see Eddington get nailed though or Gonzales or pretty much any political appointee at Justice. Rumsfeld would be a nice choice. Lurita Doan is a good candidate for prosecution. Rove too.
I don’t remember exact polls, but somehow I got the impression that there are a lot people in this country that feel justice should be pursued and that there has been wrong doing by the Chimp administration. A promise of this sort to look into wrong doing, can only help the Obama/Biden campaign, because right now the Dems look effete. They were not elected 2006 to take K-Street over, but to change the country’s course among other things. In fact, I think a lot of people are not just convinced of “wrong doing”, they’re angry.
And when the f*ck are they going to get Harriet Miers, Karl Rove, Bolton and all the other creeps to show up in Congress and testify or go to jail
.
This site is working very very slow, almost to the point where it’s impossible to comment. So I will combine comments. In the spirit of “you work for us this summer” and for those of you in the CT-NYC tristate area, here’s where Pelosi will be Sat. 13.
No.
Another chapter of simple As to simple Qs.
Boy, I’d sure like to see Chris Dodd as AG, but if not, maybe Hillary. I think that would have some real meaning, considering how the Repigs persecuted her and Bill with the Whitewater anti-scandal. If not Fitz is good, as would be Comey or Lt. Commander Charles Swift.
Yes, yes! If you haven’t read WO’s articles on this, you must.
Might I remind that Obama SCOTUS top candidate, Cass Sunstein, sez let bygones be bygones.
Dood, you are seriously going to be puking your guts out!
Re McCain: A halo should not be a shield.
That’s just because the difference between a neocon and neoliberal can be measured in microns.
You betcha.
Exactly. I’m sure one of Obama’s top level campaign aides made a secret phone call to Cheney to assure him that this is all just election talk.
Working-Class Women: On the Front Lines of Feminism
upstairs
(I’m gonna use my posting record here on my job application for Walmart Greeter.)
Oh, BTW Hugh, I’ve developed an allergy to any word with neo attached to its front. Gotta signify something BAAADDD.
That’s just because the difference between a neocon and neoliberal can be measured in microns.
Maybe that could turn out to be an instance where Joe Biden tells Obama to get his head outta his ass.
hey, it could happen….
neosporin? *g*
Thank you Howie!
Biden Denys Any Charges Against Bush/Cheney On Fox This AM
http://www.swamppolitics.com/n…..f_cha.html
Makes you wonder doesn’t it ?
RE contempt charges against Rove – yesterday’s Democracy Now show had AMy G interviewing former gov ALabama, Siegelman, recently released from jail, a victim of Rove’s use of the DOJ for political ends. Suggest everyone watch interview. very enlightening. Siegelman insists we must call SEnators and Congresspeoplel and insist they VOTE to hold Rove in contempt s soon as congress reconvenes this month. Bring pressure. His reasons are worthy of serious note by anyone interested in protecting the constitution and saving the republic. Video/ transcript at
http://www.democracynow.org/20…..c_governor
Oh for crying out loud they’re showing 9/11 scenes.
What do you call a reverse EPU? I left the following comment on the thread above, then decided to repeat it here where all the people apparently are:
MSNBC: the Republican National Convention is showing a “9/11 Video Tribute.” That is obscene. The only thing 9/11 has to do with politics (except for being Rudy Guiliani’s mantra) is that Bush/Cheney, and now the RNC, chose to exploit it for political gain. This is wrong. The video turns into a political commercial.
Here is another reverse EPU:
Keith Olbermann is now calling the RNC out for that obscenity. He is apologizing to his viewers for his network having shown it.
Somehow this put me in a Warren Zevon mood. You have to listen to this with a bit of a warped imagination (reinterpretation of how I usually listen to this one), but, warping it, was Zevon prescient in a take-off on Dubya? Naw, but it’s *interesting* to listen that way! (I am so tired of the Palin stuff; maybe it’s pushed me over the edge)
Warren Zevon- Lawyers, Guns and Money
It would be a good thng to start a calling campaign to pressure congress to HAVE A VOTE as soon as they return on holding Rove in contempt, as per ex gov siegelman’s suggestion. He claims this is the only way dems will change the course of DOJ abuse and stop the neo Rovian proteges behind Mccain’s campaign from continuing to do more of the same. He makes a lot of sense. Screw the repub convention show and don’t tell — let’s get moving to hold dems feet to the fire NOW.
Hillary for secy of defense. Now that would show em.
please watch if you missed it. I think the guy is right on.
http://www.democracynow.org/20…..c_governor
BTW, I was typing my WZ stuff, and hadn’t seen the 9/11 comments!
I was referring to BushCo. being brought to criminal charges.
Neuro- yes, the 9/11 stuff is obscene.
We have all been privy to see the real workings of this cabal and have all seen how overtly and flagrantly these thugs have trashed our country.It’s taken years for it all to evolve to this point.It’s important to try to see everything for what it is and in light of this reality:
“A large part of Valerie Plame’s job at CIA was to track the illicit trade in nuclear technologies peddled by Dr. Khan’s network. Khan’s Nuclear Walmart made it very easy for customers to buy what they needed to start home bomb-making. Khan’s one-stop shop for WMDs made it just as easy for the CIA to keep track of nuclear programs in at least half-dozen unfriendly countries, and a variety of criminal organizations in a dozen more that supplied money and know-how. When Khan’s operation was publicized on June 1, 2001 by a Bush Administration official, that long-standing CIA counter-proliferation program was also effectively ended. That official was Richard Armitage, who is also said to be the first to out Plame, a key manager at CIA Counter-Proliferation.
There was never any chance that AQ Khan or Libby would do hard time – they were both “made men” who know too much.”
Intelligence historian Joe Trento writes in Prelude to Terror that the Reagan and Bush Administration entered into a quid pro quo with Pakistan and its Saudi and Gulf financial backers in exchange for their assistance in driving the Soviets out of Afghanistan. The financial, logistical, political and commercial networks that were cemented in place endured after the Russians retreated and the Soviet Union collapsed. To hear Trento tell it, the very same network of rogue spooks, corrupt bankers, and mercenary weapons designers was the seed from which BCCI, Iran-Contra, and 9-11 sprang.”
If this is the case then it seems pretty obvious that the real players in the shadow oligarchy that was born out of the cold war cia are never going to ever see a day in prison
I am not so sure that Bush and his fellow felons will escape from their criminal activities. I do not think Obama or Biden should be yelling it from the rooftops, but I believe that an Obama administration along with a Congress with an even larger majority, will uncover the Bush regime’s crimes.
i think you’ve nailed it!
Everybody’s involved.It’s an integral part of our policy carried out by the multinationals and intel agencies and protected by the judicial system
“Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden said yesterday that he and running mate Barack Obama could pursue criminal charges against the Bush administration if they are elected in November.”
One of the VERY best reasons I’ve heard yet to vote Obama/Biden. To quote the late, great James Brown “Please, Please, Please!”
“I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we’ve got too many problems we’ve got to solve.”
I don’t give a sh*t how it is “perceived on the part of Republicans,” the United States doesn’t deserve to hold its head up before the world until they prove that American Justice exists and the Constitution of the United States of America is actually and truly in effect.