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Happy Labor Day everyone!

YEA…. tired of all those misleading anti-ads

the problem has been and will continue to be the marketing campaign of industry

they have turned the word “union” into a perjurative and that has to change

it changes by educating laborers, knowledge is innoculation againt propaganda

a union is the tool laborers use to bargain in food faith for the fair market value of their product

industry has to bargain for everything it needs to produce, it needs to bargain for it’s raw material, industry does not get to say;

“this is what we will pay”, instead the provider says;

“this is what we charge”

at times industry and their providers work to help each other out, neither can afford to go out of business and it is incumbant apon a provider to market their prodcut at a price that gives the producer a chance for marketing a product for a price the consumer will pay

the samt thing is true for labor and “the union”

industry does NOT get to say, “this is what we pay” for any of it’s product and it CANNOT be allowed to have that power over labor

labor has to say, “this is what we charge” and the industry can try to get a lower price through the bargaining process

at times industry will broker a bad deal and will not be able to charge enough for the product to compensate, in these situations it is NECESSARY for the provider to “re-negotioate” or buy the business, one or the other

THIS is the way the union MUST be presented, we MUST change the “perjurative” to a term that is benevilent

Love the ad! The anti-union lying ads have been running here in the nw a lot.

Glad it will run in Oregon as well as nationally.

Great summary Perris.

I am a member of a national union, but I live in a right-to-get-fired state.

Excellent ad. Time to take America back.

McCrazy voted against Americans right to form or join a union. Not only that but he deemed it important enough to actually show up since he’s gone at least 70% of the time. This should be repeated over and over and over.

Very important editorial in today’s LA Times.

My unionized friends are out of work half the time Unions exist for the benefit of the union management and not the workers they are supposed to represent.
The only workers that benefit from unions are puplic employees cops teachers firemen etc.These are people paid with tax dollars!!
My friends who are shopworkers laborers tradesmen get squat from thier unions ,just a weekly deduction to pay the dues!!
And if you dare speak out and complain they wont have any work for you!!

tbsa, this might be a non starter, most people deplore “unions”, the term has been turned into a perjurative

that might actually gain mccain more votes then it loses

Labor day is pretty ironic for me this year, as I am awaiting notice my job has been sent offshore. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

A vote for a republican is a vote for losing your job. It’s as simple as that. Not that the dems, Hillary in particular, don’t have a lot to answer for.

But Sarah Palin’s husband is a member of the United Steelworker’s Union

Arizona is a Right to Work state AND an Employment at Will….. Which is a double whammy….. we also do not have any labor laws, all labor laws default to the federal laws. Little or no labor board to support abuses. We also have a classes of employees which are exempt from the minimum wage…. such as wait staff….

A state that is against unions, employee rights AND employers have the right to walk up to you and fire you on the spot and the employee has no rights…..

I don’t know too many union workers out of work, I beg to differ, unions serve the members, I will grant the union biggys do fine, but the union workers do better then if there were no union, and the rest of us reap the rewards of union contracts

even if your scenario were correct, the answer is to reform union management, NOT disparage the union

perhaps unions must have silent electtions after every contract, and the contract would be approved or disaproved by the membership AFTER the election

I believe that would do the trick keeping management on their toes

Billybugs - Sounds like you need to be on this message board.

and george bush was a cheer leader, doesn’t mean I don’t like cheerleaders, I’ve dated a few…george was not one of them I might add

ah, memories

Without unions there would be no minimum wage, no worker safety laws, and no employee benefits. It’d still be like the early 20th century. That’s what the conservatives want, the return of the gilded age.

We have the SEIU here and the members do well, and speak well of that union. In these parts where the concentrated poverty level per capita is the largest in the country, we have to do something. Granted there are special concers here with immigration and farming but it has gotten so bad over the last 7 years.

And THAT is why we cannot afford to be “civil” during this campaign. ANother four years of repukes and you can kiss this country goodbye. Balkanization, anyone?

We have to go smear for smear, get down and dirty and match the ‘pukes attack ad for attack ad. We have to fight for this election like our lives depend on it, because, I believe, they do.

My union does a lot more than collect dues. They’ve fought for people when management fired them without cause, and negotiates contracts that get us regular, if small, pay increases. The small amount in dues I pay is worth every penny.

that’s a nice article

Renewing America’s ‘contract with the middle class’

here’s the way the conversation needs to be framed;

industry has expenses and they are not allowed to pass those expenses onto society, that is welfare for them

if an industry pays their labor so little the family cannot afford health insurance, then when their kid breaks his arm he uses public resources for his health care

THAT’S ME PAYING FOR IT, and it’s you paying for it and I DON’T WANT TO

therefore and obviously, an industry MUST pay enough wage for their labor force to have health care, and the only way to insure this is if THEY provide that health care, it is fine if they lower the wage of the laborer to compensate and in FACT, they come out ahead when they do that, they can get a FAR lower price then the individual and they can offer a wage lower by MORE then the health care costs, win win for industry and labor

that’s the first thing

the second

industry MUST pay enough wage for a family to put health food on the table, when they do not, I SUBSIDZIE that industry and I DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT

they must clean up the crap they dump in my kids air and the cancer the pour into my wifes drinking water

they MUST provide time and funds for vacation and THAT will help keep the labor force living longer and more productive

they MUST provide enough wage where a person is not forced into servitude till the day they die, they MUST provide retirement funds one way or another.

these are ALL costs of product and when industry refuses to pay their bills THEN I PAY THEIR BILLS FOR THEM and I DON’T WANT TO DO THAT

that framing wins over every person I have ever spoken to regarding these issues even when they THOUGHT they were “republican”

when in discussion, invariably the person starts with,;.

“what about individual responsibiliy” and the answer is;

“I agree, that’s why I INSIST industry take responsibility for their own bills”

I use their language against their own argument

Thank you, thank you, for the best argument for unions I’ve ever heard. I will put it to good use.

Blue Texan is upstairs!
Sarah Palin: Dobson’s Choice

BT’s upstairs

Perris, that’s a good way to frame it. But whe it comes to the election, we can raise the level of discourse once we’ve beaten the thugs down. Until then, it’s attack, Attack, ATTACK, all the doo dah day.

I still wonder whether it might not have been a better idea to let the Confederacy secede in 1860. The fundies could have their theocratic paradise and the nonsense that goes with that, and the rest of us could have a functioning nation.

I think Lincoln was wrong.

Corporations essentially have unions. They will have their trade organizations, chamber of commerces, industry collectives etc., and yet if one person tries to organize with the person next to them they jump up and down in unison of course.

Are you trying to label me as a redneck because I don’t follow the party line? Are you sure you’re not a Repug yourself. I was offering my opinion because of what I see for myself not because of what someone tells me what I should think . It’s called debate, I get it do you?

Instead of posting just your opinion and view of Unions, how about you addressing the issues that the article linked by ThatGuy in the LA Times:

Renewing America’s ‘contract with the middle class’
In the last 25 years, what is good for America and what is good for much of corporate America have gotten way out of sync.

…talks about?

What are your solutions to these matters, mainly the fracturing of and weakening of the middle class in the US, other than Union protection and the Union voice in the workplace? I’m hoping you aren’t just blasting the talking points of those running the anti-ECFA ads lately. So, here’s you debate, join in!

American businesses often react to union demands by closing down and moving the operation overseas. This might explain why the only unions that have any power are the ones that represent government employees.Can,t move them overseas!
Close tax loopholes that allow american cos to operate overseas and not pay taxes on the profits they make.
Perhaps we even need laws that cap the amount of income execs earn
Create incentives to keep and expand business here, tax breaks loans etc.
Reform the culture of business ,businesses have a resposibility to there employees as well as thier investors and owners.
Unions might help some , but people have to have jobs to belong to unions so I guess the answer is do everything we can to create jobs and keep them here.

ps I haven,t seen any of those adds,just my own thoughts