Comments on: Colorado’s Red Death

By: Ian Welsh

Ian Welsh — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:08:51 +0000

It’s not entirely opportunistic. Drought weakened them, but apparently it was only a matter of time because old lodgepole pines almost always go to either fire or beetles and when it happens, it happens in a huge run.

By: puravida

puravida — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 19:01:38 +0000

“Hayduke lives!”

By: paul spencer

paul spencer — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:44:24 +0000

You are correct. The question is - again - balance and appropriate response. Some forest litter is absolutely necessary.

In my opinion a good model for forest management can be found in both Japan and western Europe. As you travel through either, you’ll see woodlands on the slopes, small farms practicing crop rotation on manageable-sized fields, smaller footprint machinery - some of the things that ‘organic’ farmers and smart woodland owners do in this country.

Many of the woodlands in Europe are managed by local foresters that are paid by some level of government (depending on the national or local system). The forester lives and manages the forest for his/her whole career, instead of moving through the management system as in our case. Harvest is carefully planned and, usually, selective. One expression sort of sums it up in countries like Germany: ‘the local forester has names for all of the trees’. Of course, it took them centuries to develop a sustainable approach. We really shouldn’t take that long.

By: paul spencer

paul spencer — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:33:04 +0000

Exactly. And as you say in a later comment, “Forest health isn’t a once size fits all.” For instance, Doug Fir is a pioneer species - no fire or clear-cut, eventually no Doug Fir. In fact stable ‘old growth’ Douglas Fir stands is almost a myth.

It’s all about sustainability and maintenance of diverse species. There is better science in Forestry today than in ‘mainstream’ U.S. agriculture by a long shot. That doesn’t mean that we call it the end of the line for research; it just means that we know enough to do a reasonably good job, and we know enough to keep studying the issues.

By: paz3

paz3 — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:27:24 +0000

The Department of the Interior has authority over the BLM and the National Park Service. Some parks are letting fires burn these days, at least in Montana, and there was that big one that burned parts of Yellowstone a few years ago. Don’t know about BLM properties.

The USDA has jurisdiction over the national forest system, and a controlled fire (lightning caused) was taking place in the Lewis and Clark National Forest in Montana about a week ago when I visited Glacier Nationa Park. (Lewis and Clark NF is just south of Glacier.)

I’m just sayin’

By: fordgreene

fordgreene — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 16:59:32 +0000

Your report is a worthy outcome from being in the right place at the right time and saying “yes.” Thank you for your thoughtful discussion. In discussions of forest health and regeneration, I never see any mention about leaving the trees to rot, decompose and feed the soil. All plants drop dead material under where they live which then decomposes and contributes to the development of the soil in which the plant society – along with other societies make their home. Fire is the process of regeneration that has the most impact on us humans. But are we missing the soil for the fires? Any one have any thoughts or information on this point?

By: SueTheRedWA

SueTheRedWA — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:57:53 +0000

Although I suspect most are on another thread by now, I’ll ask a question. Who here puts out traps for wasps? I ask, because the number one enemy of the pine beetle larvae is a wasp. I live in a Ponderosa Pine forested area and my husband and I leave wasps’ nests alone unless they are in a frequented entryway to the house or pathway. This allows the wasps to do their thing and go after the beetles.

By: Knut

Knut — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:40:44 +0000

The red trees are beautiful in their own way. We were hiking up in the Vail Pass two weeks ago, and the colours — green, red, pastal green from the balds on the ridge — were just fabulous. The infestation varies a lot from place to place. It is pretty substantial east of the front range, but when we drove through Rocky Mountain National Park, most of the forest was good.

By: SueTheRedWA

SueTheRedWA — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:28:49 +0000

Elliott,
I can’t tell you how frustrating it is to get a call from a landowner to look at their land and realize they were totally taken to the cleaners. There are some great foresters and loggers and then there are people I wouldn’t trust to clean a public bathroom after a big event. The landowner used to have a good bunch of trees and then … . Once the unscrupulous forester/logger got done with them, all they have are unhealthy trees in the wrong places without protection from the elements. We’ll turned down logging jobs, because what the landowner asked us to do wasn’t right for the track of land. We’ve refused to cut more when the landowner got greedy. We’ve worked hard to talk a landowner into doing what will benefit their trees, leaving healthy trees to be the parents for the next generation.

Forest health isn’t a once size fits all. Forest health depends on the species, the site orientation, moisture level, health of the trees, elevation, and other factors. Sometimes you have to clear cut, because of root rot and replant with a new species, since none of the old species will survive because of the problems with the soil. Sometimes all that is there are thin trees with a foot spacing between them. You won’t get a healthy forest until either fire or logging thins it out.

Those trees in the photo are a big fire waiting to happen. One that my very well lead to a loss of life. The Indians dealt with this for centuries before white men showed up by burning in the late fall or early spring. We haven’t had “natural” forests for centuries. Doing nothing isn’t the answer. Logging may not be the answer, but a proscribed burn might. Everything depends on the individual factors of the tract of land.

My husband is part of a group that combines forest industry types with environmentalists to do what is right for our local forests. It is an educational process, but one we have to do correctly, for everyone’s sake.

By: whitebeard

whitebeard — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:26:50 +0000

“‘Bill O’Reilly rose from humble beginnings to become a nationally known broadcast journalist…’”

Journalist? O’Reilly? That’s really stretching the meaning of the word all out of shape. :-)