Yesterday what remains of the FDA under the Bush regime opened the lead doors to allow Big Ag and Big Industrial Food to start irradiating the life out of the iceberg lettuce and spinach you eat. The FDA claims that nuking these leafy greens is required to keep us safe from the E. Coli and other fecal coliforms (nerdspeak for "shit germs") found to have contaminated the food we bring home to eat. The Bushies, their moles in the Federal agencies that once protected us, and the corporatists they all serve are — as usual — lying through their coliform encrusted teeth. Our menus — and our choices — need not be collapsed down to the binary option of "nuked food vs poop food". "Let them eat shit" is the GOP’s de facto public safety policy, but we don’t have to swallow it.
We also don’t have to swallow the lie that irradiating greens would prevent most cases of food born illness the greens may carry. The majority of food borne illness linked to greens come from viruses, not bacteria. Irradiation won’t kill the viruses — but it does increase the greens’ shelf-life. Gee – wonder what the real agenda is?
So what’s the big deal about putting irradiated food in our mouths? We still kiss our partners after they’ve had dental X-rays and nothing bad happens, right? Well, we do — but if the dentist used the radiation doses used to blast our food, when we went to kiss our partners the skin would be sloughing off their faces — in the few days before they died from radiation exposure.
The whole purpose of food irradiation is to kill living organisms: bacteria. The radiation required is called "ionizing radiation". That’s radiation so strong it produces "ions": atoms and/or molecules with an electron knocked off by the radiation. The result can be atoms and/or molecules that have to suck an electron off one of their neighbors (creating "free radicals" who then need to suck electrons off one their neighbors — creating a daisy chain of electron thefts). With higher energies and doses, the result can be molecules (a molecule is a chain of atoms connected through "shared" electrons) blasted into bits. When we get a dental X-ray — or a CAT scan — we’re exposed to low levels of ionizing radiation. That’s why dentists and doctors now try and take as few X-ray or CAT scan as pictures as possible — the greater our bodies’ exposure, the greater our risk of permanent damage from the radiation.
When Big Toxic Food blasts bacteria with radiation, the goal is to use levels of radiation so high that the bacterial molecules are broken apart — and the bacteria die.
So what — broken bacteria just give us more protein in our hamburger patties and lettuce, right?
Nope. Plants like lettuce and spinach (and grains and herbs and spices and fruits and veggies) and animal foods (like meats and poultry and seafood) nourish us because they contain molecules we require to live. Some of the molecules are small: like amino acids (building blocks of protein) and sugars (buliding blocks of starches). Other nutrient molecules are relatively huge — like many vitamins. "Vitamins" is a general name for nutrient substances we depend upon to live — though we may only require small doses to stay healthy. Some vitamins have structures so complicated that humans can’t directly copy the structure to "synthesize" the molecule, but instead must rely on clever microbes to make the vitamin for us. We then eat the vitamins in our food (or microbes create them in our own guts), and we get to live. Yay nutrients! Yay vitamins! Yay (beneficial) microbes!
The industrial strength radiation used to kill bacteria in our food is so strong it also can break apart large nutrient molecules — including large vitamin molecules…like Vitamin C. The industrial strength radiation used to kill bacteria in our food is also so stong it creates "free radicals" — the conga line of pickpockets that each steal an electron from their neighbors.
Hey — as Carl Sagan would say, a bite of food has "billions and billions" of electrons. What’s the big deal if the atoms in our spinach salad wanna toss around a few particles? What are we – the subatomic food police? Why worry about "free radicals" — isn’t that what conservatives used to do?
The problem with "free radicals" is that — unlike academic Marxsts who only harm by inflicting terminal boredom, "free radicals" in our food actually change the molecular compostion of our food. One thing "free radicals" can do is make food more rancid. Another thing free radicals do — sometimes acting along with the fragments of molecules broken apart by ionizing radiation — is to bring about the creation of molecules that weren’t there before. Many of these molecules are toxic to us. Yep — irradiated food makes toxic molecules — substances known to harm us.
Mmmm. More molecules means more food — right? Sorry, Homer. Some molecules nourish us — other molecules poison us. Though we’ve evolved to eat food on a planet blasted by cosmic rays, we and the foods we eat have also evolved to survive consuming these foods. We didn’t evolve consuming foods blasted by industrial radiation strong enough to kill off E. Coli and delay the plant from spoiling. Instead, we evolved eating foods that need to have shit germs — like E. Coli — washed off them in the kitchen sink. That’s why — for centuries — humans have observed that washing food can decrease illness. Food without clumps of dirt and shit also tastes better. Irradiated food stuffs, on the other hand, appear to make animals sicker.
The FDA approved mutant foods — genetically modified organisms — after the noted Naturale Philosophere Dan Quayle simply decreed that gentically modified foods are equivalent to foods that didn’t have alien species’ DNA forced into them in Monsanto’s labs. The conclusion — the that mutant foods are the same as non-mutant foods — existed before experiments testing the question were ever perfomed.
Most of us don’t know it, but the FDA also approved food irradation in the same manner. Just as the FDA bowed to powerful industries that had Federal officials in their pocket when approving Frankenfoods, the FDA had earlier bowed to nuclear and Big Industrial Food lobbies when approving irradiated foods. So — courtesy of the usual corporatist takeover of Federal the regulatory agencies created to protect us from industry — we now have the FDA telling us the latest experiment on us and our food is juuust fine. Of course, just as in the earlier cave-ins, the whole "approval" process is religion, not science. Industry has faith they can make more money blasting food with high-strength radiation than they would make if they actually had to carefully prepare food and throw away spoiled meat, poultry, fish, and produce. Industry’s faithful worshippers in the Executive and Legislative branches carry the Holy Texts of regulation and legislation. And we get to eat industrially irradiated lettuce and spinach — along with industrially irradiated meat, poultry, shellfish, wheat, wheat flour, and spices…and those yummy Frankenfoods.
Ain’t life as a lab rat for Big Industrial Food grand?
Nope. We don’t have to live (and die) this way. Centralized food processing — transporting ingredients to fewer and fewer food factories, preparing them together, and then transporting the ingredients out from the central processing factories across the nation and the planet — is the most energy wasting system ever created for food preparation. Just like centralized energy production, the system benefits megacorps at the expense of our health and wallets.
E. Coli and the other fecal coliforms don’t come from plants; plants don’t have intestines. E. Coli and the other fecal coliforms — the "shit bacteria" — come from animals. When our peppers or lettuce or tomatoes or other produce are contaminated with E. Coli, that’s becuse animal waste got mixed onto the plants. Bringing the plants together in one place — and washing and mixing them together — ensures a small amount of shit germs get spread through a huge amount of prepared food. Which is how our ground meat and prepared produce and other foods get so contaminated that food megacorps want to save money by nuking their delectable contaminated wares before the crap ends up on our plates.
What to do? Whenever possible:
(1) Eat locally — try and buy locally raised and grown produce, meat, and poultry.
(2) Prepare your own food from scratch. The fewer processing steps, the fewer the chances to contaminate them in industrial food preparation.
(3) Buy organic. Organic standards forbid irradiation.
(4) When possible, garden and support farmers’ markets
(5) Eat food in season
(6) Defeat corporatist candidates.
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It’s people. Soylent Green is made of people.
Thanks for a clear explanation of why irradiated foods are not good for you.
My question is….is there any radiation remaining in the food?
Spending more time in the country, I’m getting in the zone. Ride my bicycle to local (mid-Hudson region) farmers’ market every Sunday in season. Expect one result for breakfast tomorrow. My favorite is 4 Winds Farm
http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M287
which has organic heirloom tomatoes in almost every color of the rainbow. Going tomorrow to get some yellows, oranges & greens (yes, green when ripe) to can & freeze. This year will make spaghetti sauce out of an unusual color tomato. 4 Winds proprietor told me story about 7 year old girl who objected to his yellow spaghetti sauce until she tasted it.
Great question — there is no radiation remaining in the food.
Tonight’s marinara sauce:
1 can San Marzano peeled tomatoes (Italy)
2 cloves FRESH garlic (bought in Manhattan, grown in New York)
Italian balsamic vinegar
1/2 can tomato paste (is ths ok?)
fresh basil (grown in my yard)
sea salt (France)
pepper (imported)
pasta (Italy)
How am I doing Dr. Kirk?
can obama rescind this policy once it’s in place?
this can be a HUGE presidential platform, HUGE
NO PARENT wants the prosepect of giving radiation to their kids
I don’t care if it’s even the wing nut base of this moron in office, he will lose even them if obama and biden makes this case the way it needs to be made
I have great faith in biden’s ability to frame this just the right way, I LOVED the way he smacks down cheney and his touch is just the right ticket to EMBARASS the administration with this “policy”
“NUKE YOUR FOOD, GIVE YOUR KIDS CANCER”, and the president thinks this is a good idea”
man, this could be just the thing even the base needs to get this guy out of office before the election even takes place
This topic is so important!
Thank you.
Sure looks good to me, Christine!
Perris, as nuked food and Frankenfood were both approved by Executive Branch agencies (using the simple expedient of ignoring studies that do show toxicity), a President could reverse both policies through appointees in FDA/USDA.
To do so, said President would have to value our health over bribes contributions from supermarket megacorps, industrial food megacorps, big toxins, and big ag.
Good evening Doc, You are one of the reasons I am becoming an FDL addict. Thank you for this post. Your articulation here of what happens to food or what we understand of food is extaordinaly enlightening. Thank you.
Gahh !! And here I was, feelin’ good about myself for having salads for lunch a few times per week.
Seems to me that ‘free radicals are not good’ isn’t exactly new information. I’m pretty sure Durk Pearson(?) was writing about this back in the early 80’s.
Is the FDA that far behind in their reading?
well, it might actually be a good thing obama is behind in the polls because now he has to pander to US instead of big industry!
the point on my previous post is this issue is a HUGE one that is a CLEAR winner, this issue wins the base, it even wins the bigots over to obama, ESPECIALLY now that biden is on the ticket
imagine the sound bite from the campaign add;
“the republican party has just given big business the right to use toxic radiation on your kids food supply, this will cause cancer for your wife and your children, big industry will try to tell you this radiation is safe but the studies prove it is not
would you take this chance with your kids lives?
president obama will not, he will protect your children from big business and their schemes to that puts pennies in their pockets at the expense of your families health”
“I’m barack obama and I EMPHATICALLY approve this message”
BADA
BING!
Even if it’s yellowcake?
the FDA has had the data presented and represented. Over the last 28 years, the FDA has increasingly obeyed the “industry/profit uber alles” orders from Reagan/Bush/Clinton/Bush.
Our health and safety are important only when they do not compromise profit.
Ah, the solid plank in the Republican platform.
as i understand what is being said here is that foodinc. is striving to take those things that we perceive to be food and so screwing it up that it fucks with our bodies and our kids bodies that it ceases to have the nutritional value that our bodies need.
Our culture’s approach to food is just -sick. Microwaved processed food, factory farms, obscene abundance, junk food, food plastered with toxins and pesticides, animals pumped up with antibiotics and growth hormones, now this.
Just, blech.
I grow a great deal of my own, but this year, not so much. I have about 30 tomato plants. Planned to put up a few dozen quarts of them for the winter. However, tomatoes don’t thrive on two months of rain. I haven’t had a singe tomato from my garden yet. Cabbages, nothing. Winter squash and melons, doesn’t look good. Lettuce in abundance though. If we have a long, hot indian summer, the garden might have time to recoup; but it’s already quite chilly at night.
We’ve cut out meat and poultry unless it is local and organic – and there are some nice local farms producing such. More expensive, but.
Eat less. Eat better food.
Kirk, thanks for covering this important topic. And I have a question: can I assume that most wheat products I see, from flour to cereal to breads, are made with irradiated wheat?
You know, people do kind of get sick from words too.
Our health and safety are important to a lot of people, besides you.
heh. :)
Even if it’s yellowcake?
with chocolate icing? Mmmmm….
ok – wrong yellowcake. But Yellow Cake sounds like it’s safer than a salad.
I may be going on a cheese and crackers diet here real soon. Just get my vitamins out of a bottle….
(Kirk, if there’s anything wrong with cheese and crackers, could ya save that for next week’s column? Thanks.)
Oh yum, yellowcake, with chocolate frosting. One of my faves.
A faceoff, with swords or squash rackets?
Elitists have to have only the bestest cheese and the bestest crackers. Make no mistake.
Whine, I need a glass of wine
Don’t forget the arugula.
A faceoff, with swords or squash rackets?
Swords – food is starting to scare me…. *g*
Commenters don’t get the good stuff.
So we’ve come to the point where weapons are safer than food. Sounds all too on-topic.
Elitists have to have only the bestest cheese and the bestest crackers. Make no mistake.
I’m having trouble keeping track of which days I’m an elitist and which days I’m a DFH….
My 27 in response to jayt 25.
Don’t let him scare you. You’ve been eating your whole life haven’t you? Eat away. It’s okay.
I’m not going to let anyone here scare me.
Lets get serious here are the corporations making wheel barrows full of money; good ; quit your fuckin whining
pillow-fight?
nerdspeak for “shit germs”
I heart you, Dr. Kirk.
Just saying.
But only with organic feathers.
Hmmmm. Entirely inexprienced in pillow fights, but sounds civilized. Or thumb wrestling.
CarolynU, thanks for your constructive comment and participation:
I’ve been looking for the answer to this myself. So near as I can tell, manufacturers/processors are allowed to irradiate wheat/wheat flour, but the total capacityy for irradiation in the US wouldn’t be sufficient to nuke all the wheat and flour. I’m still looking for confirmation of that inferential conclusion, however.
Great post, Kirk.
Tossed salad, indeed.
Me, too!
For two decades I’ve tried to buy local and organic. It has been the fight of my life. See what living outside the U.S. does to a food lover…
Interestingly, you can escape corp food. And as I have been on a mission to recreate foods of my childhood, I’ve realized many things, including that corp food has severely constrained choice.
Sadly , the only way we can currently avoid Frankenfoods or nuked foods is to purchase organic foods grown in the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, or Western Europe. As we’ve recently seen in CHina, the “organic” certification in many non-industrial/non-democracies has become fraudulent and corrupt.
I got yer tossed salad. Leafy greens are good. See, that only took four words.
Thanks for an excellent and thought provoking post. Sorry if I contributed to the comments going a bit off the rails.
Tossed salad revelation: Used tooo flavorful dressing & stopped eating it without knowing why. Tried again with milder flavor dressing & rediscovered tossed salad.
Really, really serious Doc. I do appreciate your description of what this process, is doing to our food. The John Birch society used to say that flouridation of water was undermining our precious bodily fluids but I thought that was fear of the unknown. What you have presented is a real scientific explanation of the impact of this process on our food. and we are what we eat.
Umm, Kirk, not to be a party pooper, but when I was taking Radiation Biophysics, the term ionizing radiation was a synonym, when used to describe irradiating living cells, for dimerizing radiation. As such, it referred to radiation that was high enough energy to cause dimerization of DNA, a process in which, if the DNA is thought of as a spiral ladder, one or more of the rungs come apart in the middle, and then fuse along the sides. It is dangerous to living organisms because it disrupts reproduction causing mutations — i.e. for both plants and animals it causes deformities and cancers, or birth defects if it happens in meiotic cells.
Unless you are planning on putting your spinach back in the ground and growing it while you eat it, dimerizing radiation during irradiation of food products has no effect on you. The effect is also quite different at the same radiation level between cells with water and those without, so it’s effect on mutations in spinach plants would be higher than that for wheat or rice, but once again, unless you are going to plant the wheat in your garden, you won’t see any effect.
My principle objection to this policy is that it should be interim, until they get the sources of the E. coli and other bacteria both found and under control, and get good inspection in place. Only because it would be preferable for the food to be clean than for the dirt on it to be dead (a point you did mention).
But you might check on that ionizing radiation. At least when I studied the stuff, what you say about it wasn’t true.
food fight
Thanks for that. I ask because, well, like many folks, I have to pick and choose what I can buy that is organic. This time of year, there is an abundance of local veggies and berries and fruit, a great deal of it organic. And we have great local cheeses here – also maple syrup, honey, breads, and too many choices of local organic meat and poultry and dairy. But some things I am forced to buy mass produced stuff from away. Or at least – I’m in the habit of eating wheat products, say. And I would freaking hate to have to give up coffee, or tea. But I refuse to willingly eat irradiated food. This stuff is not being labeled, either, is it? Didn’t our dear government fight for the right to just quietly slip this crap onto the food shelves with the philosophy what they don’t know, they won’t be able to blame when it gives them cancer?
yep – and avoiding processed food will generally stretch food budget further than buying the “value added” (more expensive) processed stuff. avodining processed food heps avoid contamination with shit germs and shit viruses, too.
cheese made from rBGH organic milk is prolly safest, but i’ll leave the reasons why for another post :)
This issue belongs on the front burner!
doncha mean rBGH-free milk?
I’m not sure I agree with Dr. Murphy. Th fact is that Europe, Asia, and South America, where refrigeration and home freezers are a luxury and rare in many regions, has been selling irradiated foods for more than 30 years.
Parmalat Milk, which is carried in many outlets throughout the US as well as a staple in Europe, is irradiated milk. That’s why you can put an unopened box of Parmalat Milk in your kitchen cabinet and use it weeks later without refrigeration. This is only one example.
While any preservation or processing of foods changes the nutrient content, even cooking foods has the same effect. Microwaving foods causes a measurable change in many nutrients, but I don’t hear many people decrying the use of microwave ovens.
So, in this case, I actually believe that the FDA may have made a valid call, even if it was for the wrong reasons. Keeping foods fresh for longer periods without refrigeration opens up avenues to deliver that food to where it is most needed. It does have the potential of reducing world hunger.
doncha mean rBGH-free milk?
(stopped waiting for clarification – with cheese in-hand hovering over the trash container….)
LOL!
Hey jayt, just go out and get you some nice Vermont Cabot cheddar, you’ll be all set.
I remember having tomatoes that i ate as fruit two or three at a time what flavor. it seems like now i can’t find plants that don’t produce the same mealy shit that I find in the groc.
Late August — only green tomatoes yet. This is climate change perhaps? I should have a bumper crop by now.
I hear that. I keep hoping to find an edible tomato. I’ll spend five minutes, just looking for one firm, promising tomato. Then get it home, cut it open, and disappointment. Not even worth putting into an omelette, let alone eating it raw.
Hey jayt, just go out and get you some nice Vermont Cabot cheddar, you’ll be all set.
But I’m pretty sure that Saturday is a DFH day.
Maybe tomorrow, which I think is my elitist day…
Where do you live? Most areas now have local farmers’ markets. Search yours out.
The only thing I miss about tomatoes from my Dad’s garden is the smell of a freshly picked tomato. Even the organic heirloom ones have been picked long enough ago to not have the appropriate smell. But the taste is superb.
ondlette, i don’t think you’re being a party pooper at all.
however, the definition you describe the Radiation Biophysics course usig is only one subset of the possible consequnces of ionizing radiation: rearrangement or breakage of nucleic acid molecules is only one possible consquence of ionizing radiation.
the linky in the post is from teh wiki: here’s the World Health Organization
The Rad Biophyics instructor appears to have been – quite simply – wrong.
Hope this clarification gets back to him or her – that’s quite a blunder!
No, no, Cabot cheddar is make specifically for DFH’s (by DFH’s).
yep.
the comparison is not cooked non- irradiated food vs raw irradiated food. it is either 1) raw non- irradiated food vs. raw irradiated food or 2) cooked non- irradiated food vs. cooked irradiated food.
Aww – now I’m blushing
I’m so confused… *s*
So glad this idea came up here. Microwaves don’t heat foods through ionizing radiation: the microwaves we heat food with are non-ionizing radiation. Hence the comparison is not valid.
This is starting to sound elitist.
I got your non-irradiated raw food.
But, ya gotta have the right attitude for it to work.
Christine and Carolyn I have long felt that different crops had their years, I mean some years the tomatoes would be great next year the peaches or cantaloupe. never have been able to learn why. But it seems like the past 10 years or so nothing tasted good = more like food kitsch
One of the best ways I know to find less expensive organic ingredients is in the “bulk food” section of local food cooperatives. I’ve often found that bulk organic pasta / grains / flours / dried fruits there are less expensive than boxed/bagged non-organic versions of the same foodstuff in the commercial markets.
Still, organics are more expensive thatn non-organics in many cases. The only way I know to solve that is to increase demand and increas local supply when possible. Though I don’t Walmart, I’m glad they’ll be carrying organic produce (along wth Costco, IIRC) – that should help with price and increased support for organic producers.
Spew alert!
;)
Just east of Denver. Been to several farmers markets and have grown my own. Maybe I haven’t found the right vender i keep trying
Jumping in without a catch-up so bookmarking for later read……..had really been hoping this would hit a Lake post. Looks like it’s gonna be strictly organic for me from here on out. Thanks for making some additional information available!
Hmmm. Maybe tomatoes are good only when grown at altitudes less than 5000 feet.
This is true. I’ve had more tomatos with a handful of plants I threw into my flower beds than I have this year. If I could only tell you the labor I put into my tomato beds this year. Hundreds of pounds of rocks that I dug out, with visions of rosy jars of homegrown tomatoes all winter. Not one freaking tomato have I yielded so far.
That’s why diversity is good. What kills one plant makes the next plant thrive.
I’ve also been spoiled for years here in Cleveland — Shaker Square has a wonderful local farmer’s market almost year round. Super everything. Even plants! And our West Side Market is pretty great, too.
Gnite all.
‘Night eCAHN.
Aw! I just got this — front burner! Sure wish show text worked…
ian has an announcement upstairs
Or maybe the seedlings I have bought from the nursery have been grown from modified or geneticaly engineered seeds. The stuff that the commercial growers use so they can ship stuff that takes weeks to get to the groc. and still looks normal
Good Night, eCAHN. Dream of fat juicy healthy tomatoes.
(It couldn’t hurt.)
That could be. One of the things I’ve been doing this year is to grow at least two varieties of everything. I tried a new seed catalog from Maine (Pine Tree) and mixed in some old favorites and tried some new stuff too. Amazing how differently two types of tomatoes or green beans or beets can grow. One hardy, abundant, the other not so much. Also doing side by side taste tests. It’s been interesting. I’ve learned a lot from my garden this year, so – that makes up somewhat for the lack of produce.
I can’t say if it is true but I have been told that store tomatoes are picked very early and either ripen in transit or are subjected to some presto-chango instant ripening process, hence the complete lack of flavor. My neighbor’s vine ripened tomatoes are extraordinary, year after year, grown here in the lowlands (elevation 728 ft). I should note he is a master gardener who has spent several decades perfecting his technique.
For folks looking for further technical discussion (and general discussiono), Food and Water Watch have a great section on food irradiation. Their sections on irradiation facts and on food irradiation FAQ are quite helpful and accessable.
Broken record goes into great detail about some of the toxic substances known to be caused by irradiation and the FDA’s forty-plus year history of ignoring that data — as well as using faulty studies and experimental design — in furtherance of their political choice to serve Industrial food, rather than serving consumers.
They also have links to two great reports (PDFs) that are more technical, but really informative. Food irradition: a gross failure describes the subjective and objetive findings about the fact that — for many foods – irradiation makes them unpalatable..or “gross”
hee-hee: nme too – i’m slow tonight. goodone, tpres2000!
I tried 4 different varieties none worked. I have not been in this environment very long but?
Maybe just having a bad weather year for tomatoes? I know we are – the rainiest summer on record.
Some tomatoes that have done really well for me are: Celebrities, Early Girls, Juliets, umm… drawing a blank.
and let me add that I’m up in the mountains and we have a short growing season.
Have you tested your soil pH?
foothillsmike, for next year you might try buying seedlings at the farmers market – the local organic guys will know what grows best where you live.
Yes and tried some in pots on the deck in organic potting soil.
Thought that I was doing that but will change vendors next year.
Probably a dumb question but have you talked to other growers in the area?
Hmmm. Is anyone getting tomatoes near you? Seems like everyone has them, or no one does.
Gives you new respect for people who had to rely on what they could grow to eat, doesn’t it?
Still, no. The definition of what ionization is, from the WHO site, is correct, but what is considered ionizing radiation varies depending on which molecule you are removing ions from. Their list of ionizing radiation sources is consistent with the definition I gave. In biophysics, as I said, the usual use is to refer to ionization of the constituent molecules (TACG) of the DNA rungs. The rungs then bond along the sides, deleting a “dimer” from the genetic code. In fact, if no reference to any other kind of ionization is explicitly made, most would interpret this to be what is meant. Other uses are indeed possible, but at what energy/wavelength the radiation is considered ionizing would be different. To determine what the phrase means in the context of irradiating food, one needs to know that, and if it is not stated, it would imply the definition I gave.
I did irradiations on vegetables in that class, I used both ionizing and non-ionizing radiation on them, and I tested both water bearing (sprouts, in my case) and non-water bearing (seeds) cases for sensitivity (our radiation source was a “cobalt bomb” or Co-60 source). We never used any other definition of ionizing radiation, both professors, both experts in radiation physics specifically, used the phrase identically.
I actually agree with almost all of your food recommendations, and with washing vegetables and using clean water for irrigation rather than the lazy solution of using irradiation as a panacea.
Several mixed results which seemed weird.
ratfood – i loved the yellowcake joke – no worries!
i’m glad you’ve jined us tonight.
your question about store bought tomatoes is a really good one. they are picked green a(and hard. and unripe). Ripe tomatoes won’t survive the absurdly ong travel inks in the highly cntralized food distributon system (esp withthe increased cnetaliztion over the last wo years)
The unripe green tomatoes are gassed with ethylene oxide to turn them pink, but they still aren’t right.
Bananas also give off ethylene oxide: when the weather starts to frost, some home gardeners will tkae the greenies off the vine and bring indoors (ideally bfore a sunny window) and put em in a bag with a few ripe bananas to get the tomatoes as “ripe-like” as possible.
footshillsmike: curious.
Like my lack of tomatoes this year is no mystery: rain.
But if it’s not a clear weather thing, and some people are growing tomatoes there, and you’ve tried different types, then hmmm. What’s going on? Let us know if you find out.
Moved here from the Black Hills where we had a short growing season but I had great results. Was in Zone 4 but it was only 3600 ft. Here I am at 5600 ft
Must be an altitude thing then.
That should be a brown paper bag
Thanks for the info.
I felt bad that you invested time and energy in a post concerning an important topic and probably went 40 minutes without a serious comment. Just had to wait for some curious folks to wander in, I suppose.
Hey Kirk, thanks for another interesting post. As always, very thought provoking (and less disturbing than some /s).
Thanks doc and if Ican just keep my shoulder from twitching next time I go grocery shopping I will be fine
Go Obama/Biden
Important post Dr. Kirk Thank you;
I am going on 72 have eaten close to organics and stayed awzay from food grown with pesticide (Toxic carcinogen and Mutagenic chems that kill organisms that eat the produce in the field). Dinner tonight:
Piza 2″ crust stonegound in my kitchen red hard wheat and gluten flour botj organic. Live sprounts and organic marinara souce with red pepper flakes and frsh acorn squach with butter and organic safflower oil.
The pesticide residues are bio accumulative in our organs as well as the wildlife who are in the watershed.
So eating organically does three things, protects our soils and water supply, protects wildlife reproduction cycles and re4duces the incidence of cancer and a host of sister diseases.
Also the lack of nutrients weakens our immune systems so we have higher rrates of sickness than healthier eating populations.
Yesterday I rowed 11 miles in windy wavy conditions. I followed up today with very fast stroke per minute with more aerobic demand for two miles.
Sleep really well and the back pain is gone. I will start more resistance training with wieghts to increase fast twitch or power muscles. I have in 29 years never rowed that far. I believe I can have beter fitnees in the next 2 decades than in previous decades when I was running 130 miles a month or when I was bench pressing 367 pounds. I weigh 170 and am 5′ 10″.
Again excellent post Kirk. Thank you.
Here’s what may help your tomatoe production which are gettimg way to much water and will not go to fruit. Cover them with clear or traslucent plastic. Thar keeps them warm and dry and on the cool nights they staywarm. If you have to trech a burm around them it could help. As soon as they dry out the flowers should become tomatoes. They also like deep soils.
Glad you find the general recs useful!
As for the concept:
Someone forgot to tell this dude:
in
with the objective:
He used this definition:
seems like the NCI’s Radiation Epidemilogy branch uses “ionizing radiation” in the same fashion I described above.
No discussion of base pair dimers.
Nada.
Same with the EPA in “Ionizing Radiation Fact Book“
No inclusion of nucleic acid base pair dimers in that definition.
OK – on to the IAEA:
Nope. No nucleic acid base pair dimers in that there definiton, either. I’d a thunk the dosimetry people would touch base with the biophysics people, but that’s just me. *g*
OK – let’s look north.
How does the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety define “ionizing radiation”?
Hmm. They don’t seem to restrict the definition to nucleic acid base pairs, either.
I’m absoutely willing to believe this is accurate
Either those guys gotta get out more — their definition appears to be highly idiosyncratic….or the biophysics crowd have an idiosyncratic definition for a term which is widely and coomonly understood to have a different precise scientific meaning.
The veggie experiments sound cool, though!
Yes! My bad.
No worries – I’m glad folks are interested, and I welcoome the word paly – especailly on serious subjects.
(I feel bad for my long-suffering editors stuck with my long posts and me giving them too little time…)
I’m losing my touch! /s
Just finished reading the post and comments… I sure don’t want ANY irradiated food in my diet. As you stated Kirk it is big corporate money trying to squeeze more profit out of the costs to provide good tasting healthy food.. With most of the regulating Government agencies in the back pocket we Are in Trouble with our food and our health because of it. Just another reason to vote for the Democrats up and down the ticket. and when the Democrats are in power we must push them hard to reverse all these atrocities that have been pushed through by the Rethugs! We owe it to our children and their children, it is time the Government serves the people and not BIG Money!!
Thanks Kirk for the great post you always bring topics that must be discussed and need to be used as talking points against the Rethugs!!
For Big Ag it is about self life how long can you keep the product before it is a loss. I thas to go from the field to loading and then warehouse thenshipping to distributor/grocer.
Perservative increase shelf life. Pesticide, herbicides and fungicides protect crops in field. Most are classed as carcinogens or mutagens.
Best is grow your own organic
Next best get from local Farmers market
Buy pesticide free always.
Great point, bibbrother. I’m hoping that as energy/transport rices rise, one healthy side effect will be nudging our food supply back yo local/regional sourcing and growers whenever and wherever feasable and ecologically sustainable.
bigbrother!
i can’t type for beans….
Kirk, I’m not quarreling with what the mechanism of ionization is. It is, and will always be that a photon is absorbed by a molecule and results in the removal of a charged part of a molecule. That isn’t an issue, what is considered ionizing radiation is. You can cause breakage of some organic molecules by shining visible light on them if you want, that’s how the cone cells in your eye work. It isn’t considered ionizing radiation unless you are someone who works on the physics of vision.
Therefore, before one can call a particular form of radiation “ionizing” one needs to know what compound is being broken, which ions are being created in order to assess where the boundary between the two types of radiation is. If you just say “ionizing radiation”, and the subject is biological compounds, what I said is the case. Many other biological compounds require very different levels of energy to bust them, seed covers for instance. The charts which show ionizing radiation beginning in the UV range are based on dimerization. They are based on light being “mutagenic”.
The ionization is not what is corrupting the irradiated food. In all cases up to the present, irradiating food is done to preserve the food, because it destroys bacteria and other organisms that cause it to spoil. That means that the food that has been irradiated can be a lot older than food that has not been irradiated (we are talking limits in years as opposed to months). So the compounds within that food break down, or change to other compounds, in a way that is unique due to the fact that no other process allows food that old to be unspoiled. That food changes over time is well known: think of the difference between fresh corn on the cob and corn that has been canned, or even just corn on the cob that was harvested a week or two ago. The sugars in the corn convert to starches making a noticeable change in taste. Other chemicals convert or denature as well, this example is just easily noticeable (so is aging wine).
So now think of the long term effect of allowing the vegetable industry to irradiate fresh vegetables: Vegetables will now be able to be kept far longer without spoilage (once they have the permission there’s no way they will stick to making us safe from E.coli). So it increases the upper limits on the age of “fresh” fruits and vegetables, which can then be harvested even earlier, and ripened in ways that are even more creative than the current ones. And “fresh” fruits that have been kept in cold storage much longer than is currently possible will eventually be on the shelves whenever it suits that inventory and business model of the agribusiness. If you are into fresh fruit, you already know what the difference is between cold stored fruit and truly fresh fruit. If it’s a palatable difference, rest assured the compounds underlying are changed.
You are absolutely right that there are compounds in the food that wouldn’t be there if they were not able to irradiate them. I am only saying that the compounds arose by the leeway they gained on what was “food” and what was “garbage” by having food that unnaturally did not “spoil”. It wasn’t caused by the ionizing radiation itself. They did too much research on that part of it.
When people are trying to eat “local” they should think of it as “local” in space-time, not just in space.
Thanks bigbrother for your tips on getting my tomatoes to fruit. Your diet and healthy life are inspiring.
Ondelette, this was your first statement re “ionizing radiation”:
this was your second statment:
Your third statement contains a ringing endorsement of food irradiation.
By the merest coincidence, the false definition of “ionizing radiation” foisted upon our readers in your first comment is the basis for your dismissal of extensively documented findings of adverse health and safety c consequences from the food irradiation techonology you celebrate for our readers in your third comment.
Irrespective of whatever the nameless “experts in radiation physics” who apparently misinstructed their students may have professed, neither:
the National Cancer Institute (in the person of:)
nor:
the EPA (as in their official “Ionizing Radiation Fact Book“)
nor:
the International Atomic Energy Agency
nor:
the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety
share the puported opinions of two unnamed and uncited purported “experts”.
Yet I and our readers are asked to take a pseudynonmyous account citing these two “experts” in place of the public, identified, and commonly held views and definitions shared by the National Cancer Institute’s Radiation Epidemiology Branch, the Environmental Protection Agency, the International Atomic Energy Agency, and the Canadian Centre For Occupational Health and Safety.
Gee — does that teeter-totter look balanced to you, Ondelette?
One international agency (the one that got Iraq right), two national US Agencies, and one national Canadian agency: they all agree on one definition.
In the other end of the teeter-totter we have…one pseudonymous commenter citing two unnamed (and hence unreviewable) “experts” – with nary a link nor a citation to support their assertions.
Amazingly enough, I’m still persuaded by the NCI / EPA / IAEA / CCOHS, rather than the pseudnonymous commenter citing two unnamed “expert” sources…whose false defintion just happens to produce a Big Industry-friendly — hence profitable — conclusion.
Mere coincidence, no doubt.
Why does this matter?
Well – other than providing a fine example of “when in a hole, stop digging”-
the spurious definition of “ionizing radiation” advanced in your first comment was the pretext for wholesale rejection of extensively documented findings about how irradiation destroys food nutrients while producing toxic by-products.
What economic forces does the false and misleading conclusion (based on the spurious definition the anonymous “experts” purportedly mistaught) in your first comment serve?
Why, the food procesing industry.
Gee – what does this remind me of?
Oh – now I remember.
Raising a tiny detail — usually spurious, false, or simply misleading — regarding real safety risks of extant technologies that profit Big Industry is an effective technique to obscure basic facts about health and safety dangers associated with profitable technologies.
That technique is well described by Sheldon Rampton and John Stauber in their book “Trust Us, We’re Experts“.
PR Watch and Sourcewatch are replete with examples of the technique — beloved as it is by the PR firms that serve toxic industires and their willing servants in industry, academia, and stink tanks.
In her groundbreaking and incisive work “The Secret History of The War On Cancer“, University of Pittsburgh epidemiologist Devra Davis extensive documented how Big Tobacco manufactured doubt for decades after the nicotine pushers knew their product was deadly. She also documents how corrupt “researchers” like “Richard Doll, Hans-Olav-Adami, and Dimitri Trichopoulos…secretly served as highly paid consultants for the asbestos, chemical, and pesticide industries.”
Amazingly enough, these “eminent” and well-paid scientists’ work “Furthered the manufacure and selling of doubt“.
The false definition of “ionizing radiation” upon which your initial comment rejecting health and safety risks caused by food irradiation is premised futhers “the manufacture and selling of doubt”, Ondellete.
Doubt – now what does that remind me of?
Why – now I rememember! An FDL Book Salon!
Not sure if you happened to see it, Ondelette.
Oddly enough, I’m quite certain every PR shop, stink tank, and other paid servant of those paid for acts that “furthered the manufacture and selling of doubt” heard of the Book Salon..or at least of our guest at the Book Salon.
Why?
Well, the guest for that Book Salon was David Michaels – author of Doubt Is Their Product. Oxford University Press seems to have thought well enough of him to have published his book: with 265 pages of text and 71 pages of references.
You know, references as in footnotes — that quaint literary and scientific convention allowing readers to assess the accuracy of alleged/purported “experts”. Like, say, the “experts” who say “trust us”.
References — that quaint convention which your assertions about unnamed “experts in radiation biology” purportedly teaching false definitions of “ionizing radiation” singularly lack.
Anyway, for some reason in reading these comments I recalled New Scientist’s review of “Doubt Is Their Product“
In conclusion, Ondelette, that term “ionizing radiation” does not mean what you profess to our readers it means…but success in that misrepresentation would have meant a success of the type sought — and richly compensated — by the professional doubt-peddlers in the paid service of the planet’s most toxic and powerful industries.
Mere random chance, no doubt.
The sad thing about the “Doubt Is Their Product” peddlers is that they have been so successfully that even very well-meaning and well intentioned progressives have been misled into adopting the frames and assumptions most favorable to toxic technologies. So I’m willing to accept the inaccurate and false defintion of “ionizing radiation” provided to our readers was offered in good faith — yet I completely reject the false and misleading conclusions that arose from that inaccurate and false definition.
Of course, YMMV.
Bon appetit!
[Food irradiation causing degraded vitamins — and acceleration of vitamin degradation — sure meets my smell test for “corrupting the irradiated food”. Of course, others’ mileage may vary.]
Here are some of many reasons I find this statement from comment 116:
to be false and misleading:
From Food and Water Watch’s Fact Sheet:
Food Irradiation and Vitamin Loss
(References 4,5,18,20,25,26,31 from this pdf)
4 Murano, Peter. Food Irradiation: A Sourcebook. Ed. Dr. Elsa Murano,
Iowa State University: Blackwell Pub Professional, 1995.
5 Diehl, J.H. “Combined effects of irradiation, storage, and cooking on
the vitamin E and B1 levels of foods.” Food Irradiation, 10: 2-7, April 14,
1967.
18 Stevenson, M.H. “Nutritional and other implications of irradiating
meat.” Proceedings of the Nutrition Society, 53: 317-325, 1994; Metta,
V.C., et al. “Vitamin K deficiency in rats induced by feeding of irradiated
beef.” Journal of Nutrition, 69: 18-21, 1959.
20 Youssef, Bothaina M. et al. “Combined effect of steaming and gamma
irradiation on the quality of mango pulp stored at refrigerated temperature.”
Food Research International, 35: 1-13, 2002.
25 Diehl, J.F. “Combined effects of irradiation, storage and cooking
on the vitamin E and B1 levels of food.” Presented at the 33rd Annual
Meeting of the American Institute of Nutrition, Atlantic City, NJ, Apr.
14, 1969.
26 Wilson, G.M. “The treatment of meats with ionizing radiations. II.
—Observations on the destruction of thiamine.” J. Sci. Food Agric. 10:
295-300, May 1959.
31 (ibid 27) Diehl, J.F. “Combined effects of irradiation, storage and cooking on the vitamin E and B1 levels of food.” Presented at the 33rd Annual Meeting of the American Institute of Nutrition, Atlantic City, NJ, Apr.
14, 1969.
Here are some of many reasons I find this conclusion (and the underlying premise):
from comment 116 to be false and misleading:
Center For Food Safety and Food & Water Watch’s report:
Food Irradiation: A Gross Failure — The strange, sickening impacts on the smell, taste, color, and texture of food exposed to radiation
Ruined odor
Irradiating components of beef resulted in a “SWEET BURNT ODOR,” a “STRONG ODOR OF HYDROGEN SULFIDE,” and a “STRONG BURNT ODOR”…. The off-odors in irradiated meat are formed from sulfur-containing compounds.
—Batzer, O.F., and D.M. Doty. 1955. Nature of undesirable odors formed by gamma irradiation of beef. Agricultural and Food Chemistry, 3:64-67.
“Irradiation of cured cooked ham resulted in higher OFF-ODOR scores than all other treatments immediately following irradiation thus indicating a change in quality…. Irradiation processing increased lipid oxidation for all treatments (raw uncured, raw-cured, cooked-cured).”
—Houser, T.A., et al. 2003. Effects of irradiation on properties of cured ham. Journal of Food Science, 68:2362-2365.
“The acceptance of the meat odor was consistent with the irradiation odor intensity. As the irradiation odor intensity increased, the preference of meat odor decreased. Most trained panelists rated irradiation odor as an off-odor. [Taste] panelists could easily distinguish between odors of irradiated and nonirradiated meat…. Irradiation and storage of meat in vacuum packaging may be desirable for long-term storage, but may reduce the acceptance of irradiated meat.”
—Ahn, D.U. 2000. Quality characteristics of vacuum-packaged, irradiated normal, PSE, and DFD pork. Swine Research Report, Iowa State University, ASL-R695.
“Irradiation odor intensity increased [in a] dose-dependent manner in frozen pork patties. Irradiation odor lasted longer in frozen than in refrigerated pork patties and some [taste] panels could detect irradiation odor after 3 months of frozen storage. Panels characterized vacuum-packaged irradiated meat odor as ROTTEN EGG, SWEET, BLOODY, COOKED MEAT or BARBECUED CORN, BURNT, SULFUR, METALLIC, ALCOHOL or ACETIC ACID. Those words also were found in other [previous] studies.”
—Ahn, D.U., and C. Jo. 1999. Quality characteristics of vacuum-packaged pork patties irradiated and stored in refrigerated or frozen conditions. Swine Research Report, Iowa State University, ASL-R1712.
“Irradiated meat products can develop a characteristic odor described as ‘BLOODY SWEET’ or ‘BARBECUED CORNLIKE.’[Two researchers] reported that dimethyl trisulphide was the most potent and obnoxious volatile compound from irradiated raw chicken.”
—Zhu, M., et al. 2005. Control of Listeria monocytogenes contamination in ready-to-eat meat products. Comprehensive Reviews in Food Science and Food Safety, 4:34-42.
“Irradiated raw pork, regardless of packaging, produced more volatiles than nonirradiated patties and developed a characteristic aroma shortly after irradiation.”
—Ahn, D.U., et al. 1998. Effect of muscle type, packaging, and irradiation on lipid oxidation, volatile production and color in raw pork patties. Meat Science, 49:27-39, as cited in: D.U. Ahn et al. 1999. Volatiles production and lipid oxidation in irradiated cooked sausage as related to packaging and storage. Journal of Food Science, 64:226-229.
–
[for more truly gross findings, check out the report. Mmm…oyster saliva. - kjm]
In addition to degrading nutritional value and causing gross smells, tastes, textures, and appearances… food irradiation also appears to
(1) create toxic substances including carcinogens (mmm…cancer-causing agents)
(2) stunt growth in lab animals condemmed to eat the stuff
(3) be associated with colon tumors in lab animals condemmed to eat the stuff
But hey — who cares about a little disease if they can enjoy oyster saliva, right?
From Broken Record:
[OMG: there’s that phrase again! - kjm]
[where have we heard that before? oh - wait - in the post! - kjm]
[mmm…benzene - kjm]
The cited references and charts may be found in Broken Record. I’d paste them in, but my fingers are tired.
I’m tired, too, of the worshippers of untested technologies and their paid (or unwitting) servants falsely assuring the rest of us that — after a century of toxic corporate lies about their toxic products — this time it’s safe to just swallow whatever some Big Toxic Corporation wants to cram down our throats, dump into our water, force into our food, or beam into our schools and homes.
Fuck that noise.
I want decisions about public safety made for all of us, not merely for the megacorps’ bottom line.
I want corporatist rule — the new 21st century term for creeping fascism — overthrown in my lifetime.
And I want that because the rest of us, our descendants, and the rest of the creatures on the planet will live longer — and better — when we two-legs stand up to, expose the lies of, and defeat the megacorps.
Should we fail, our descendants and the rest of the creatures on the planet will be able to curse us…until sometime before the end of this century, when the biosphere becomes too hot for life as we’ve known it to continue.
Selfishly, I also want to to overthrow corporatist rule because the misinformation pushed into the public sphere by the megacorps and their PR empires royally pisses me off.
Don’t accidentally mislead — or deliberately lie — to me or my friends about what we eat and expect me to swallow it.
Ya basta
And Bon Appetit.