Of course, McCain was calling for attacking Iraq from virtually the moment September 11th happened and he’s never been terribly enthused, organized, or cognizant of Afghanistan or anything that fell outside of where the bombs drop.
But this moment in 2003 reflects McCain’s philosophy in Afghanistan right up until the time he decided to copy Obama’s long-time call (and most Democrats) for a commitment to going after the real Al Qaeda where 9/11 was hatched as opposed to providing a training ground for them at a loss of more than $10 billion a month out of the mythical magic off-budget fairy (or as it is known in our modern world of corporate branding "The Halliburton Off-Budget Fairy"). Meanwhile the war McCain’s never come to grips with continues to go down the crapper:
Taliban insurgents mounted their most serious attacks in six years of fighting in Afghanistan over the last two days, including a coordinated assault by at least 10 suicide bombers against one of the largest American military bases in the country, and another by about 100 insurgents who killed 10 elite French paratroopers.
The attack on the French, in a district near Kabul, added to the sense of siege around the capital and was the deadliest single loss for foreign troops in a ground battle since the United States-led invasion chased the Taliban from power in 2001.
Taken together, the attacks were part of a sharp escalation in fighting as insurgents have seized a window of opportunity to press their campaign this summer — taking advantage of a wavering NATO commitment, an outgoing American administration, a flailing Afghan government and a Pakistani government in deep disarray that has given the militants freer rein across the border.
And why? Because our alleged buddies in Pakistan are far more concerned about "their" national interest than in ours. A fact that seemingly has never dawned on the Bush Administration (or McCain for that matter) other than as an excuse to lie about their motivations.
Pakistan’s military has agreed to a series of peace deals with the militants under which it stopped large-scale operations in the tribal areas in February, allowing the insurgents greater freedom to train, recruit and carry out attacks into Afghanistan.
More foreign fighters are entering Afghanistan this summer than in previous years, NATO officials say, an indication that Al Qaeda and allied groups have been able to gather more foreigners in their tribal redoubts.
The push by the insurgents has taken a rising toll. Before the attack on Monday, 173 foreign soldiers had been killed in Afghanistan this year, including 99 Americans. In all of 2007, 232 foreign troops were killed, the highest number since the war began in 2001.
Earlier this year as he emerged as the clear front runner in the Democratic race Obama made a speech that recognized the reality that Pakistan is following their own interest and not ours:
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an Al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will.
…and how did self-proclaimed national security expert John McCain respond?
"Sen. John McCain of Arizona, close to clinching the GOP nomination, called Sen. Barack Obama ‘naive’ today and…blasted him for advocating a bombing of Al Qaeda hide-outs in Pakistan"
That was in February 2008, six months later, once again, who was correct in pointing out this situation and how it would manifest itself in Afghanistan?
And McCain is a long-time unquestioning hugger of Musharraf, including praise for the awesome job he did in not confronting Al Qaeda.
Yet, the media never allows this prescience to be reported and McCain NEVER gets any criticism on his reflexive hugging of every Bush foreign policy failure by arguing for more of the same.



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No one could have anticipated . . .
Bush: Who gave them permission to have their own interests?
Cheney: Not me, boss.
Bush: No, of course not you. But I want names, and I want them NOW.
Rice: I’ll bet it was those pesky democrats. Why do they hate America?
So what will Obama’s campaign do with this? All indications are that his campaign is looking more and more like Kerry’s in 2004. McCain has him on the defensive and on his heels. He seems trapped by his “can’t we all just get along meme.” Pleading with the Republicans to run an honorable campaign is the height of political naivete. Obama ran a brilliant primary campaign but is running a very tepid general.
Agree. Listened to about 10 minutes of Obama’s VFW speech yesterday, including the part about don’t-dare-question-my-patriotism. Thought it was tepid beyond description, and applause was likewise.
I’m stunned that the press keeps talking about McCain’s “experience” and “expertise.” He has never held an executive/command position. He wasn’t a particularly good pilot. He wasn’t so all that great a prisoner of war: “After four days [of torture], McCain made an anti-American propaganda ‘confession’.” He’s been a rather lousy senator. And not a very faithful family man.
So, what is there in his record that qualifies him as having “expertise”?
free ride
There are variables, however if the good citizens want more of the same, (there isn’t enough space to list the negative impact made by Republican policies on our beloved country), then vote for McSame. It’s a simple ‘two-fer’..if ya love Bush then vote for McSame, it’s not that complicated. Obama’s campaign cannot over state this fact.
I didn’t expect much from Obama with that crowd. I was surprised that he got any applause at all. VFW? Bunch of warheads.
Obama had best pick up his game after the convention or he’s dead meat.
Fuck McCain.
If Rove were running the Obama campaign, he’d have Vietnamese military personnel attesting to the fact that McCain broke in prison and gave away secrets that led to the downing of other American pilots. (Attack the other guy’s strength.)
Good point about the audience, but I was still surprised at Obama’s lackluster delivery. The one thing he consistently shined at until VFW was making a good speech.
Agreed. I’m not advocating completely lowering ourselves to such a despicable level, but we should definitely be attacking his supposed strengths — even if they’re hard to find.
And we can be afraid to publicly take a big old McCain right on him when the situation calls for it. Stop playing nice!
McCain’s smears and the medias complicity has Obama on the ropes and off his game.
McShame was a lousy pilot but what he has been good at is tooting his own horn even if it is bunch of shit.
From the bits and pieces I heard on the radio I have to agree about a lackluster performance. If it had been me I don’t know whether I’d give a barnburner knowing I’m pissin’ in the wind or just get through it with as little damage as possible. VFW’s a tough crowd and there’s never been a war they didn’t love. Along with the watered down whiskey in their clubs.
That’s my point. Not a way to win an election.
Iirc, read somewhere this morning that Obama and bush 3.0 have agreed to hold off on negative ads on 9/11. Sounds like Lucy looking for a place to happen……..anyone who thinks the two of them agree on the definition of “negative” has. not. been. paying. attention.
The troops on the ground that McShame is always talking about have supported Obama 6 to 1 Why is that asshat not challenged.
I’ve thought since the primaries that Obama has just been treading water until the convention. He’s toast if he doesn’t pick up his game, though. After next week it had better be along the lines of evil, wicked, mean and nasty. No prisoners.
Obama had the opportunity to show Republican failures and callous disregard to the troops in the handling of the war and veterans issues. He could have given a barn burner of a speech that exposed the hypocrisy of the Republicans on issues that concern the VFW. Instead he continues to play into McCain’s game plan by having to defend his patriotism.
As Obama is treading water his campaign should keep in mind that the media has tossed a life line to McCain and his giving him a free ride to the finish line.
EPU’d from last thread.
Shawn Johnson shows the world where she stands.
Did anyone watching the Olympics last night see Shawn Johnson’s performance on the balance beam? More importantly, did anyone else catch the peace sign she flashed after she knew she had won gold? Then, on the interview with Costas she’s wearing No Nukes/Peace symbol earrings and NBC had no choice but to show them along with that enchanting smiling face. They stood out like spotlights. Good on ya, Shawn, for your performances and your own little protest. Had to drive the reichwingnuts crazy.
Obama may have a VP that can cast some dought on McLame’s claim to support vets and promote Obama’s patroitism by association.
I keep thinking that this product of Chicago politics has a game plan. I don’t know that I’d conduct a campaign the way he is but then I’m not the one running. Establishing expectations on my part won’t accomplish anything.
this is strange to me since I do not believe he was a member of the PNAC at the time
If you’re explaining, you’re losing.
attack. Attack. ATTACK.
Wes Clark started that
someone somehow has to get the question to mccains, “how long have you been friends with krystol”
and follow up with;
“have you been a close associate of his since that time?”
Oops Wes Clark started that and was shot down I am afraid the campaign is bending over backwards to run an aboveboard campaign. If you bend over backwards enough you fall on your ass.
Morning Attaturk,
I’ve decided that the basis to oppose anyone is if they delegitimize another’s humanity. Anywhere, anytime,anybody does this I intend to point out, pointedly, their failure as a member of the human family.
This arose from a discussion at the peace vigil last night about not calling out anybody that went to another country to murder people. It was against our Constitution to do so and therefore did what they swore they wouldn’t do. Following leaders like Custer or Bush or the fellow who still hates Gooks can only lead us off some cliff.
For a guy who voted with Shrub 95% of the time what’s to understand? I doubt he ever read Rebuilding America’s Defenses. Prolly wouldn’t have understood it anyhow.
Once he clinched the nomination, Obama seems to have been listening to the same Democratic consultants who keep losing elections.
We need to figure out how to play hardball without being evil, soulless pricks like the Republicans.
Defense may win Superbowls, but it loses elections. Obama used to have a gift for deflecting criticism with dignity he needs to get that back to quickly move from defense to offense.
And we need to learn that the public, by and large, isn’t going to vote based on the issues, but on ‘ideas.’
Obama needs to hammer away at the fact that Republicans stand for the rich getting richer and the rest of us getting poorer, while Democrats stand for everybody getting a fair shake.
He also needs to turn this whole Georgia thing around. For me, the situation between Russia and Georgia just highlighted the fact that McCain would be truly frightening on foreign policy. He keeps touting his experience, but what experience does he really have? Barack Obama has the demeanor and the intelligence and the ability to not only get along with ohters, but to impress others.
Republicans want to bring back the Cold War — I suspect that’s their major stategy for ‘08. Fine, let’s turn it around on them and prove that Obama is the guy we want dealing with such a delicate, dangerous situation – not some bat-shit crazy hothead like John McCain!
He wasn’t, but then neither was Bush. Both, however, were spoiling for a war. It’s well documented that Bush wanted to be a war president since well before his election. And McCain is of that generation of warriors who never got over their defeat in Vietnam.
In fact, his only reason for wanting to win in Iraq to get “overdue” bragging rights. Losing in Vietnam had no negative impact of the interests of the United States, and the same will be true in Iraq.
Amy Goodman doing interesting interview with Andrew Bacevitch, Limits of Power-End of American Exceptionalism on democracynow.org. Geez, were it only so. Don’t think I’ll live long enuf to see end of American exceptionalism.
McCain takes 5-point lead over Obama-Reuters poll
and Heaven knows these consultants are on a streak.
Exactly! It was like Bob Shrum somehow took over the campaign.
DLC = Democrats Lose Continually
After the limpness that Obama showed at Saddleback, I’m not surprised. And remember, the economy is considered Obama’s strength.
that is just depressing
but goes back to what Attaturk said about MSM never calling McCain to account
This pisses me off. I have been sending $ to these folks to run a good campaign. If they can’t fight the fight then I need to find a 527 to send my $ to.
Republicans not only want to bring back the Cold War (Republicans always need a boogeyman) but they want to continue the establishment of a New Slavery for the 21st Century. Not based on race but on class. That means you middle class! Obama seems to be painted into a corner, some of his own making. His “can’t we all get along” and the fact that if he does come out swinging for the fences the corporate media will immediately portray him as “angry”. The last thing he wants is to be portrayed as “angry.” Two things the media and many Americans can’t handle is the truth and anger.
You can always send it to me to help pay off my vet bill. *g*
This snapshot in time lends credence to the notion that American’s have a collective death wish. That McCain is seen as having an advantage in managing the economy is stunning given the last 8 years and where the country is as a result of Republican policies.
let me translate this for you twolf1
mccain is white
barak is black
therefore mccain is better at everything, not only the economy.
we live in a country of bigots and mesogenists and we fielded the two easiest candidates for the republicans to beat, this was a rove special and he used the media as his tools…we knew it was happening and we fell for it
to be fair, if the media covered the primaries the way they should have been covered, edwards would have probably gotten the nod and then he would have been forced to step down
who would have taken his place?
I do not know but I doubt it would have been hillary or obama
to make a point before anyone challenges, as far as the republicans are concerned, you can’t be a little bit pregnant and you can’t be a little bit black
McSFB has only spoken in sound bites when it comes to the economy so that tells me that those being polled aren’t paying attention. McSFB spent a lot of money on ads while Obama was in Hawaii and I think we’re seeing that reflected in this poll. Do we know how the poll questions were posed?
Per HuffPo:
… and the U.S. is in no position to do anything about it, except start WWIII. Whose fault is that?
Dean had it right a week ago when he referred to the Rethugs as the “white” party.
What will it take for Americans to wake up and smell the coffee? Another Great Depression with people selling apples, begging on the streets, the re-establishment of poor houses. How about another war in Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, China? Has America truly lost it’s way and in need of something far more drastic than rigged elections, say liberation?
Woops. Cindy McCane has another half-sister.
Nor is NATO.
so is McCain gonna give Musharraf asylum in Arizona?
Barack with a ‘c’, not Barak
sorry, just woke up
my opologies all.
off to work
sorry, just woke up and don’t think too much in the morning
my opologies to all.
How to handle those who would refer to others as “elitists.”
Jeez. It’s like Putin is the only person who understands we don’t have the fresh conventional forces to fight anyone. I wonder if Bush may have invited Tibet into NATO on a side trip at the Olympics./s
Someone needs to press McCain about exactly what he means with the tough talk toward the Russians. Putin was smart enough to talk nice when he knew he had to. McCain and Bush are just embarrassing big mouths and someone should call them out on it.
here’s the link hugh posted about it the other day…
one half-sister from mom
one half-sister from dad.
and dad was married when he met cindy’s mom marguerite.
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=93708729
LOL
“What would you do, Mr. McCain, if Russia were to invade Poland?”
Or as Rachel put it: “McCain and whose army?”
When will there be a significant and sustained effort against McCain? The Democrats are letting it all slip away as we watch helplessly.
McSFB is no match for Putin. A pampered opportunist vs a former KGB operative.
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things
Namaste
Tell them economy class is back there ;-)
(waiting for link to load)
Aaagh! Anyone who thinks John McCain will be better on the economy DESERVES the Great Depression we’re going to get. Unfortunately the rest of us DON’T deserve it but we’re all going to get stuck with it thanks for a minority of idiots, pathetic media and a broken democracy.
you cam see McCain’s Response right here
My guess is the convention will be the beginning. I’m certainly hoping. If he continues with this milquetoast crap we’re dead meat. I want to see what message(s) come out of the convention. They’d better be strong and substantive.
Yes,or: “Senator McCain, it appears that the Russians have decided not to withdraw from Georgia. What we do now?. Do you suggest nukes, or should we start a draft?”
Obama ads go on the attack.
More of this, please.
Something to ponder in the soup line:
Republics love marriage so much they do it over and over. Then they stand before the media, proclaim their love of family values, and ask why Democrats hate America. The MSM note takers dutifully present the Republic positions and the Democrats refuse to fight back.
New Mexico.
Now that’s a bad dude.
SPEW!!!
OT Denver Post article per c-span Denver has met the cash goal for convention – Thank you corporate Amerika
This is not a Republican year, but nevertheless Barack Obama is trying to run as a moderate Republican. And it’s not working. McCain is simply a better Republican than Obama.
or use your ‘christian’ sensibilities/guilt/false sense responsibility on you and not them, to keep you in a bad marriage.
found it amusing that loo hoo’s link to wapo-that the write-up about cindy rewriting her family tree was in the gossip column….not ‘real news’ i guess.
Obama’s speech to the VFW was excellent, imo, and the media decided to ignore some of the best lines. The MSM is afraid of having their patriotism questioned. The only way that McCain can win is by painting Obama as anti-american and MSM seems only to willing to go along with McCain’s attacks.
Mentioned in the earlier thread that CNN is doing a report on both candidates tonight [yes, I know, we’re all watchin’ the Olys…]
Re McCain they are showing clips on his terse “major moral failing” from the “Faith” “Forum” — Cindy sayin’ John had been separated 6-1/2 years, those oh-so-pesky facts sayin’ he was livin’ with his wife while cheatin’ with Cindy. And filed for marriage license before divorce was final.
That is because their fingers are permanently stained with barbeque sauce.
Democratic Presidential candidates have two opponents, the Republican candidate and the MSM. Obama needs to reconsider his opposition to 527’s immediately.
so true, we should start a mailin campaign, send your favorite McCainiac journos Wet-Ones ™
Jonathn Alter this morning on the smear gap.
How low will McCain go in this election? Seems to me who he hired tells you everything you need to go. When McCain accuses Obama of putting politics before country it’s the same ol’ Rethuglican projection technique.
Honor in John McCain? I don’t think so.
Oh crap.
It’s a done deal. US missles going into Poland. US troops will be sitting on the target with Patriot missles pointed at Russia.
What could possibly go wrong?
ack, preview, Sandy, preview!
“everything you need to
goknow.”Ya kinda wonder if Pootie-Poot and Dumbya were layin’ out this gameboard in Beijing… nice October wag the dog to build up, eh?
Very nice.
Now if only we knew some “battle tested” cold warriors to show us how to deal (firmly) with these evil Russians…
I saw Obama at the town hall on Monday. I tried to be objective, listening and watching him up close.
His answer to a HS student on immigration was excellent. With a lot of immigrants in the audience and a large contingent of First American leaders, he spoke to all the nuances of our scene. He knows the issue.
His answer on health care was also great. He pointed out that by not taking big contributions, he will have a better opportunity to take on the insurance/pharmco industries.
I have gone door to door for the last month and will continue with enthusiasm. I don’t have illusions of what Obama can do, but if we end up with McSame, we are really in trouble. The road back to our country is long.
Casting aspersions, talking about race and on and on is not going to make change. Be part of it. Some way.
I see an Over 55 Despot Luxury Community in Ecuador in the near future.
Good for ya
an old guy on our local call-in show said he has a theory on why there are so many ‘panties in a bunch’-a phrase used by the plain-spoken hostess often to describe how she feels about our country today….
he said it’s a plot by the chinese–they make all of the underwear now. they make them that way on purpose..it’s a chinese plot…
ROFL….
A gated community with razor wire atop the walls and gun towers every few feet.
way to go.
have a great day pups.
and this was in the newsbox–another cheney neocon lawyer appointment. dept of energy undersecretary. opposition research and fights environmental and health regs for energy…….almost as good as the acting transportation secretary..that one wins..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01994.html
with all assets seized by the US taxpayers
Yesterday I heard an interview on npr with a woman who went to law school with Obama. Callers who knew him during his Illinois lege time also… the take is uniformly “thoughtful” and willing to listen and grounded in common sense.
Thoughtful vs. hothead. You’d think the choice would be obvious. Except for the devious, enabled by the BBQ Fingers crowd.
Fresh Prairie on the smear gap
wow what a TEMPER
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwTKM_u-7j4
Very well said. Thank you.
Josh over at TPM has a good posting on the company McCain keeps.
The point cannot be stressed enough, seems to me, that McCain has chosen to crawl into bed with the worst vipers in the political landscape…Rove, Reed, Scheuenman, Schmidt… snakes in the garden, the lot of them.
Long, long ago I can remember my folks saying “show me your friends and I will tell you who you are”
John McShame camp = sleeze
John McShame= sleeze
Jane’s up upstairs
John Mc$ame is a nasty little man, as his ‘performance’ at the POW/MIA hearings clearly showed.
On the other foot, just how far up the thought-chain does the average American operate? Especially those who embrace a low-information, simplistic, sound-bite ‘philosophy’ as their very own?
If the public is terrorized on top of that, as well as led to believe that they, themselves, will be filthy rich someday, then how may we find ANY path to sanity, as long as the d’s, the so-called ‘opposition’ party, want to be almost just-like the r’s?
The mythical ‘center’ whom the d’s assidously court, comprises the never-neverland of ‘no change’, ‘no hope’ and ‘no brains’.
But why should the d’s change THEIR ways? Look how successful ‘they’ have been, the ones in office (for the most part) feed at the well-healed ‘public’ trough, suffer no personal discomfort even as they complicitly empower everything they claim to abhore, refuse to do their jobs and know that ‘the prople’ can’t or won’t do a damn thing about it.
The d’s KNOW very well the enduring American myth that there are only two political parties, can only be two political parties and that they will always be one of those two political parties.
Maybe the d’s don’t KNOW, but unless ‘the people’ are prepared to do somewhat more than heretofore, the d’s ‘win’ even if they ‘lose’.
What a ‘racket’.
So, while Mc$ame is a mean little man, just how ‘big’, ‘generous’, and ‘courageous’ are those who would make a ’show’ of being the party in opposition?
Seriously, how much of a ‘risk’ are the d’s really willing to take?
It is up to Obama to show us, sadly, let us, all of us, audaciously hope that he does not disappoint over much.
Of course if Obama fails, then it will be someone else’s fault. Isn’t THAT the mantra? It is NEVER lack of courage or paucity of ‘vision’ which assails those who would lead the ‘opposition’, it is some ’spoiler’ who just doesn’t ‘understand’. And ole man Nader fits the bill to a ‘tee’ in this thrilling kabuki.
If the d’s manage to ‘lose’ this one, then they are not merely pathetic, they are stupid, self-serving and beyond reasonable ’salvation’ and deserve to join the dodo bird in extinction as they’ve demonstrated precisely the same survival ‘instincts’ as that sad, feathered biped.