The exquisitely named Orson Swindle has stepped up to claim that he remembers John McCain telling the "cross in the dirt" tale back in the early ’70s, even though the earliest appearance of it in any speech of McCain’s is in 2000. The wingnutosphere invariably is describing him as "a fellow POW." But as usual, he’s much more than that.
Of course, this is all about people claiming to be eyewitnesses to certain events, and the only evidence is their say-so, which makes their credibility paramount.
How credible, exactly, is Orson Swindle? Well, consider, for instance:
Swindle served as executive director of "United We Stand, America", and spokesman for Ross Perot’s 1992 presidential campaign.
Swindle is a Senior Policy Advisor at the lobbying firm of Hunton & Williams in Washington, DC. …
Swindle is also on the board of Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW), an independent political advocacy group that seeks to eliminate waste, mismanagement, and inefficiency in the federal government. Throughout its history, CAGW has been accused of fronting lobbying efforts of corporations to give them the appearance of "grassroots" support. In part, this is because CAGW has accepted donations from Phillip Morris, the Olin Foundation, the Bradley Foundation, Microsoft, Merrill-Lynch, and Exxon-Mobil. CAGW also has ties to convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff. While CAGW describes itself as non-partisan, it has endorsed John McCain for president and donated $11,000 to his campaign or groups controlled by him.
OK, so here we have a lobbyist — one of many on McCain’s support team — who’s also a right-wing Republican operative with a history of setting up sham "grassroots" organizations that do the bidding of business and corporate interests. He’s pouring thousands of dollars into McCain’s campaign and lining up thousands more.
And you want us to take his story backing up McCain at face value?
Sure we will.
This sort of "eyewitness account" brings to mind Bill Calhoun. You may remember him: He was the former Alabama National Guardsman who claimed to have spent time with George W. Bush in the early 1970s; it turned out, of course, that Bush wasn’t at the base at all at the times Calhoun claimed to have met him.
It’s possible John McCain really did have the "cross in the dirt" experience exactly like Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s. It’s also possible that little fairies encapsulated in lightly scented bubbles fly out his ass when he farts.
But until the McCain campaign comes up with a more credible witness, you’ll have to pardon us if we choose not to swallow this one. Because the scent suggests otherwise.
UPDATE: Andrew Sullivan notes that Swindle had quite another version of their discussions in May. Meanwhile, another former POW who served with McCain writes that he won’t be voting for McCain, and why.
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that last name
Good Morning…Another little Swift Boater. Why have so many politicians of class and integrity disappeared…I think I must be incredibly naive. Maybe not such a bad thing. But where do these people come from with trash in their mouths. Why is there so little outrage and concensus about being lied into war, adopted torture, screwed the financial system…and we/some are saying more, more, more.
Thank you for vetting the McCain cheerleaders.
Morning David :) It will interesting to see who else come out from under a rock for McCain…
I have a great idea! Get Michael J. Fox out to say he time-traveled back to 1970, went to the Hanoi Hilton and SAW McCain playing poker with his captors, while some Americans were tortured.
What’s fair is fair — a lie is a lie.
Do you think Americans would believe one over the other? Probably. Suckers.
Digg It Dave
There is an interesting piece in DU this AM about McShames time in captivity and subsequent coverup
http://www.democraticundergrou…..215;171237
Swindle?
Who wrote this, Dickens?
Yep: He was the eye witness.
the linky no worky
Sorry it was from Democratic Underground
I’m not going to comment. I’m in the “cone of silence.”
John McShame also invoked the name of John Lewis as one of his repected/advisor mentors. In an interview with John Lewis, Mother Jones reports that John Lewis states that he has never had any contact w/ him.
http://www.motherjones.com/moj…..e_man.html
See the previous thread for my comments about VV Against McCain. It’s a hate site run by Jim Kiley. Kiley was running a sham business at The Wall and was looking for either a grant of some sort or credentials as a legit charity, I forget the details. Short version is he was pocketing the dough. McCain was instrumental in his being outed as a scam artist. Hence the site. Much like Jim O’Neil’s beef with Kerry was the starting point for the swiftboaters.
Cone of silence!!!
McSame was P.O.W.? Who knew.
Must be a slow news day. Rumpole had the Timsons supplying him a steady stream briefs. Who’s on the national dole for the Swindles?
“What do you say after you say ‘Hello’?” ;)
This is sad for a testimonial advertising executives look for someone with impeccable credentials who is also good looking to sell the part. Are their no other POWs they could find who would confirm this?
I understand McCain might not have talked much about the war (yeah right)
but Swindle is the best friend he confides in more than anybody else?
This Lobbyist is McCain’s best friend who he trusts his most hidden secrets too?
This story sounds as fishy as the John beat up a Sandinista story in fact it has the same smell.
I bet the same McCain aid thought up this story and leaked it to the same press people.
Hey, Democratic Underground is reporting 9th circuit is starting to unravel the no-fly list. That house of cards is built on legal sands, it seems.
http://www.democraticundergrou…..15;3444160
T-Bear that linky no worky either, problems linking to DU
There are probably half a million POWs and the Repukes picked this one…’serves them right’.
OMG David….. there should be a spew alert this morning
It’s also possible that little fairies encapsulated in lightly scented bubbles fly out his ass when he farts.
“
http://www.motherjones.com/moj…..e_man.html
If you need someone to cover you for a lie its always wise to make sure that they will cover for you and at the very least that they are not endorsing the other guy.
Are all GOPers bad liars this is Amateur hour work.
Who said “If they tell you who they are, believe them”?
Larry Craig?
I hope the Dems will put together a whole narrative on these “facts”: The marriage, the Keating 5, the edited medical records, slimy war record, against torture before I was for it, the scary anger, et al. This man is a liar and wrecklessly impulsive. Surely someone can factually paint the picture of that life of lives..let alone the financial causes to benefit Cindy.
This is to the SF Chronicle for the story
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..12DEQU.DTL
All of this “was he, wasn’t he” in the cone of silence is just another bright glittery object to distract. My bet is that Rick Warren simply gave McCain the questions a couple of days before the “debate”.
Why aren’t the other POWs backing this up didn’t McCain talk to any of them about the Cross story while they were in prison all those years? Or was he in solitary?
My experience as a
prisonerguest of the County suggests that prisoners talk allot about everything because there is nothing else to do.If McCain was not in solitary the whole time then the other POWs should have heard that story often, real often.
Really is incredible how the McShame campaign is creating their facts. Yesterday the clown was telling the VFW how much he has supported veterans. Is there no end to his BS. When is the MSM going to expose this fraud?
What does it say when your only witness is a GOP lobbyist? Do we really need to bother to check his record to see if he lied about or to politicians before, or lied under oath?
he worked as a Tobacco Lobbyist does it get any more deceitful than that?
Gee, Things, when you put it like that..
would give a reporting reporter pause, no?
Excuse me, I thought I was paying attention but I seem to have missed this part. Can someone tell me briefly wtf is this “Cone of Silence” thing?
And I’m with Pach. The name “Swindle”? Get out. You couldn’t make this up. Well, maybe Dickens could.
Sorry if you want to investigate this guy’s reputation for honesty go ahead I need a laugh:)
I just want to put it out there that with a Tobacco Lobbyist there is no presumption of honesty rather than confirm McCain’s story he brings up more doubts.
The Rev Warren at the Obama, McCain church debate said that he would ask Obama and McCain the same questions and that John was in a cone of silence like on the
tv show and would not be able to hear.
John however was in a car headed to the church and could have heard the first set of questions if he had a tv, radio, net access, a blackberry etc, which means Warren lied.
Or at best was misinformed
Jane has a new post up entitled, “The Trouble With Biden.”
Intriguing teaser. Alas, the link does not work. Again.
It is my understanding that McBush was in solitary for around 2 years but it is well documented that the prisoners developed a communication system using tapping using Morris code which every boyscout knew during that era. So whether he was in solitary or not does not count, they communicated with each other.
If this event was Sooooo profound then others would of heard of it….. WHAT exactly did they have to communicate about in such a closed environment?
This post is by a Vietnam POW who was a prisoner for 8 years…. went to the naval academy with McBush…..
Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Yes, I did hear something about that. Thanks for connecting that up for me.
But a lobbyist with the name “Swindle”? I mean, who would let him in the door?
You mean, if they didn’t have “R” after their names?
2 degrees of separation from David Rockefeller.
What a coincidence!
We don’t need to prove that McCain’s “cross in the sand” event didn’t happen, he needs to prove that it did. He said precious little about it not only in details but in how it was transformative. I believe that if some press or evangelical reps interviewed McCain again and pressed him to expand in greater depth on the details and what it meant to him, he would expose himself as a fraud in this matter. If he lifted the story and used it as a ruse for his spirituality, his bullshit isn’t good enough to convincingly cover the huge gaps. That is all it would take, imo.
.
there once was a lobbyist name Swindle
who cared not for kith or kindle
but show him a dollar
and the slimeball would holler
The Cross story aint simply mental !
oh yeah, gonna be one of those days :D
My thoughts exactly. Who are the other POW’s. Shouldn’t they be interviewed to substantiate this lie.
Interestingly enough, Swindle back in April said that McCain never talked about religion at all as a POW:
So was he lying then, or is he lying now?
And the other ex-POW buddy of McCain’s, Bud Day, who has suddenly been briefed — ahh, brought in to back up McCain? Funny that he never mentioned the cross incident in his religious-themed TV ad that he did for McCain a few years ago.
The fact that McCain says nothing about this “event” in his autobiography and called his Vietnamese jailers monsters without an ounce of humanity would tend to bely his assertions about his so-called “Christian jailer”.
If one of them was sympathetic to him then one would think that McCain would have shown some interest in finding the guy….at least asking about him.
But NO! Not a peep.
In addition, McCain makes this sound as if it was some sort of special event in his own transformation as a Christian. Except that he behaved horrendously when he returned to his wife. And he only seems to have become a crypto-born again well after the rise of the Christian right as a political force. He still hasn’t taken the “dunk” (adult Baptism) as required in the Southern Baptist faith that he now supposedly professes.
No we have McCain asserting that this event was so important in his survival in the Hanoi Hilton? It gave him the faith to hold on..something apparently that thoughts of his wife and kids wasn’t able to sustain.
But he doesn’t mention it in any public work about his Vietnam experience…until NOW?
And this whole bulldada about John McCain not lying because he was a POW? If anything one develops a whole set of lies to survive while being a POW. One doesn’t cooperate with the enemy…one lies to them and constantly deceives them in order to survive. It becomes habitual.
Democrats need to be careful with Keating Five charges. McCain was the only Republican involved. The others were Senators Alan Cranston (D-CA), Denis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-Ohio and NASA) and Donald W. Riegle Jr. (D-MI).
oldswede
Swindle was also nominated to the Federal Trade Commission by Bill Clinton.