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	<title>Comments on: Ukraine Baits the Bear While Condi and Dubya Do Nothing</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/</link>
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		<title>By: Stormcrow</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584948</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormcrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584948</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What the fuck is wrong with those people?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I know we discussed this over at Mercury Rising, and I contended that an attempt at military reconquest of Ukraine by Russia was going to bleed Russia a lot more than Medvedev or Putin could probably imagine.  This is NOT a good time in history to think about building empires.  Not for anyone.  Tactics and technology are going to combine to make life unbelievable hell for the aggressor state, and the would-be empire builders are going to find the cost will probably grossly outweigh the benefits.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But Viktor Yushchenko has gone out of his ever-loving mind.  If he’s really counting on the US to pull his chestnuts out of the fire when this goes sour, he got a free lesson in geopolitical reality to ponder just last week.  If the Russians use this as a pretext, they may lose. But it’ll probably tear Ukraine to pieces anyway.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Iraqis basically won the Iraq War by about couple of years ago.  When the US occupation regime was reduced to an appendage of whatever Shia faction could swing the most weight.  That’s why they silently collaborated in the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad in 2006.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But Iraq is in chaos, without a government the population at large considers legitimate.  The infrastructure has been wrecked for the last five years, and nobody is going to build much that’s stable with fresh suicide bombers doing their thing every single week.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s what I’d call a Pyrrhic victory &lt;i&gt;at best&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Does Yushchenko really want to see the same thing happen to Ukraine?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the fuck is wrong with those people?</p>
<p>I know we discussed this over at Mercury Rising, and I contended that an attempt at military reconquest of Ukraine by Russia was going to bleed Russia a lot more than Medvedev or Putin could probably imagine.  This is NOT a good time in history to think about building empires.  Not for anyone.  Tactics and technology are going to combine to make life unbelievable hell for the aggressor state, and the would-be empire builders are going to find the cost will probably grossly outweigh the benefits.</p>
<p>But Viktor Yushchenko has gone out of his ever-loving mind.  If he’s really counting on the US to pull his chestnuts out of the fire when this goes sour, he got a free lesson in geopolitical reality to ponder just last week.  If the Russians use this as a pretext, they may lose. But it’ll probably tear Ukraine to pieces anyway.</p>
<p>The Iraqis basically won the Iraq War by about couple of years ago.  When the US occupation regime was reduced to an appendage of whatever Shia faction could swing the most weight.  That’s why they silently collaborated in the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad in 2006.</p>
<p>But Iraq is in chaos, without a government the population at large considers legitimate.  The infrastructure has been wrecked for the last five years, and nobody is going to build much that’s stable with fresh suicide bombers doing their thing every single week.</p>
<p>That’s what I’d call a Pyrrhic victory <i>at best</i>.</p>
<p>Does Yushchenko really want to see the same thing happen to Ukraine?</p>
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		<title>By: Muzzy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584930</link>
		<dc:creator>Muzzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584930</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think he’s smart enough (getting where he is speaks for something), but it’s a matter of how scared he is right now about his own wellbeing given all the people that got killed and how wrong it turned out for Georgia.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;He might be weighing the fact that his path to survival does not go through Bush/McCain/neoconservative influence right about now.  He may well not use it, but by requesting Biden to travel to Georgia Saakashvili might be setting up an out for himself, and at the very least, creating an opportunity for leverage over BushCo. simply by the threat of revealing the unknown extent involvement by us promoting the initial attack on Ossetia.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think he’s smart enough (getting where he is speaks for something), but it’s a matter of how scared he is right now about his own wellbeing given all the people that got killed and how wrong it turned out for Georgia.  </p>
<p>He might be weighing the fact that his path to survival does not go through Bush/McCain/neoconservative influence right about now.  He may well not use it, but by requesting Biden to travel to Georgia Saakashvili might be setting up an out for himself, and at the very least, creating an opportunity for leverage over BushCo. simply by the threat of revealing the unknown extent involvement by us promoting the initial attack on Ossetia.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584913</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584913</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Link &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/17/georgia.russia4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....ia.russia4&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Link <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/17/georgia.russia4" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl&#8230;..ia.russia4</a></p>
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		<title>By: T-Bear</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584911</link>
		<dc:creator>T-Bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584911</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Ian, fancy your entré, usually they are awaiting the start of a new day here. Have you seen this? The neocon lapdogs are at work, yapping at the bear, why will they never learn? What is the eejit Sarcozy going to do, bite Putin on the ankle? Don’t these bankrupt ideologues realize Russia does not need to go far to halve Georgia for all practical purposes. They are not even planning to move until after Monday. The world gone mad.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian, fancy your entré, usually they are awaiting the start of a new day here. Have you seen this? The neocon lapdogs are at work, yapping at the bear, why will they never learn? What is the eejit Sarcozy going to do, bite Putin on the ankle? Don’t these bankrupt ideologues realize Russia does not need to go far to halve Georgia for all practical purposes. They are not even planning to move until after Monday. The world gone mad.</p>
<p>Good post.</p>
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		<title>By: Knut</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584906</link>
		<dc:creator>Knut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584906</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;We live in hope.  I doubt Sakaashvili’s smart enough to carry it off, seeing as he was conned by Rove.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We live in hope.  I doubt Sakaashvili’s smart enough to carry it off, seeing as he was conned by Rove.</p>
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		<title>By: GregB</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584902</link>
		<dc:creator>GregB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 18:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584902</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sakashvili is going to pull a Harper trick and will make some outrageous statement or promise that he claims Biden has made on behalf of Obama.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bank on it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Saakashvili is a tie eating kook. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid379OjuC0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here’s the proof.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;-G&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sakashvili is going to pull a Harper trick and will make some outrageous statement or promise that he claims Biden has made on behalf of Obama.</p>
<p>Bank on it.</p>
<p>Saakashvili is a tie eating kook. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid379OjuC0" rel="nofollow">Here’s the proof.</a></p>
<p>-G</p>
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		<title>By: Muzzy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584894</link>
		<dc:creator>Muzzy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584894</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;regarding Biden going to Georgia this weekend &lt;i&gt;at the request of Saakashvili &lt;/i&gt;, I wonder if Saakashvili might have a squeeze play in mind for Bush/McCain.  The leverage for Saakashvili being, cluing Biden into what assurances Bush/McCain/Scheunemann gave Saakashvili before leaving him twisting in the wind.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>regarding Biden going to Georgia this weekend <i>at the request of Saakashvili </i>, I wonder if Saakashvili might have a squeeze play in mind for Bush/McCain.  The leverage for Saakashvili being, cluing Biden into what assurances Bush/McCain/Scheunemann gave Saakashvili before leaving him twisting in the wind.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: GorillasGuides</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584892</link>
		<dc:creator>GorillasGuides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584892</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oops sorry everyone No: 32 was me and yes it should be accompanied by a &lt;a href=&quot;http://thumbsnap.com/v/tpmPfXKe.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;card&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops sorry everyone No: 32 was me and yes it should be accompanied by a <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/v/tpmPfXKe.jpg" rel="nofollow">card</a></p>
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		<title>By: GorillasGuides</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584887</link>
		<dc:creator>GorillasGuides</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584887</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry Ian, if it makes you feel better this is the second time today I’ve had to apologise for not resisting temptation. &lt;a href=&quot;http://punditkitchen.com/2008/08/15/political-pictures-george-bush-vladimir-putin-monkey-see-do/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Evil-war-mongering-monkey see Evil-war-mongering-monkey do&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Ian, if it makes you feel better this is the second time today I’ve had to apologise for not resisting temptation. <a href="http://punditkitchen.com/2008/08/15/political-pictures-george-bush-vladimir-putin-monkey-see-do/" rel="nofollow">Evil-war-mongering-monkey see Evil-war-mongering-monkey do</a></p>
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		<title>By: BooRadley</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584885</link>
		<dc:creator>BooRadley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/17/ukraine-baits-the-bear-while-condi-and-dubya-do-nothing/#comment-1584885</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks Ian. Bullseye, as per usual.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ian. Bullseye, as per usual.</p>
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