If you were the loudest, most belligerent shoot from the hip advocate of a foreign policy that had just ended in disaster for the US, NATO, Europe and Georgia after everyone followed your policy advice, do you think the media would be proclaiming that you had a “very good week”?
Well, yes, if you’re John McCain and the media were as mindless as our MSM.
This searing must-read article by the Guardian’s Ian Traynor decribes the devastation to US, NATO and European security interests wrought by this week’s little war. But our Beltway media seem to view this as a spectator sport, opining that what is clearly another US foreign policy calamity is good for Repubicans and McCain. In which bizarre universe?
This is what our unthinking MSM, starting with Ruth Marcus and Rich Lowry on last night’s PBS News Hour (but you could have heard the same absurdities from Michael O’Hanlon and Robert Kagan on CNN, or others on any channel), defines as a “very good week” for McCain:
– McCain’s good friend and our supposed ally in Georgia sent its US-armed and trained troops into South Ossetia (which never wanted to be part of Georgia), destroying it’s capital [but see Sunday's McClatchy update: looks like earlier reports of destruction were overblown], killing many and forcing thousands of Ossetians to flee into Russia (and Georgians flee Russians in Georgia), while provoking/excusing a massive counter invasion into Georgia by Russian forces.
– Provocative calls by McCain for the US to support and identify with Georgia’s actions – “we are all Georgians” — constituted repeated, direct interference in the conduct of American foreign policy, complicating efforts to obtain a cease fire and the removal of invading troops.
– Bush’s and McCain’s overblown rhetoric may have created unrealistic expectations of US help, despite the fact the US never had any intention of rescuing Georgia.
– The Russians now occupy strategic points in Georgia and move at will, intimidating Georgian towns and pressuring its elected leaders to abdicate.
– The US Secretary of State was forced to impose on Georgia’s President a "cease fire" agreement that, while calling for eventual withdrawal, also allows the Russians to continue security operations inside Georgia.
– Hundreds of millions of dollars in US military aid to George have now been seized or destroyed by the Russians, and the Russians aren’t leaving until they’re finished.
– US policies to encourage an independent country on Russia’s borders, to include Georgia in NATO and to extend NATO to other nations surrounding Russia are now in shambles.
– US policy to engage Russian cooperation regarding European economic and energy security is now in shambles; Europeans are much more vulnerable to Russian control of energy supplies than before because of potential Russian control of major pipelines through Georgia.
– US policy to enlist Russian cooperation in preventing Iranian nuclear proliferation is now in shambles.
– US policy to secure loose nuclear materials in Russia is now threatened.
– US-Russian relations have deteriorated to their worst point in two decades, reminiscent of the Cold War.
– By following the policies advocated by Bush/McCain, the US has been exposed as a reckless, toothless tiger, with it’s forces bogged down in disastrous wars elsewhere.
– The US has shown itself willing to allow an undisciplined ally to provoke Russia but unable to protect them when Russia reacts in a predictable fashion. As a result, US prestige and influence, as well as claims that it acts responsibly, have suffered yet another serious setback.
How is it possible that America’s media elite can confuse a series of unmitigated disasters with a “good week” for anyone in America, let alone for a Presidential candidate whose rhetoric and policies helped foster and exacerbate the conditions that led to these disasters?
How is it possible for reporters and pundits who view the world in this down is up, night is day, catastrophic failure = "a good week" to be allowed on national television?
Is it too much to ask that our media invite clear-headed analysts who can explain that US and European interests and policies just suffered a disastrous week whose adverse consequences could be felt for years? Then we can ask them whose policies are responsible rather than whose candidacy is helped by juvenile reporting.
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Aloha, Scarecrow!
hi scarecrow
It is mind numbing how the MSM pundits can say it’s a win for McInsane…!
typo alert in the first paragraph
thingthink.Aw, you just putting a negative spin on it. The important thing respecting Russian, er, Georgian territorial integrity.
We are living in “Alice in Wonderland” times.
Thanks for the post Scarecrow.
Personally I was horrified by McMumbles chest thumping bullshit. For those of us with an actual memory his rhetoric this past week was frightening.
Mr.cbl
C-span had a pastor call in and express his disappointment that Warren said no canned speeches and allowed McInsane to utter nothing but canned speeches…! ;-)
yepper, good week for McCain.
We are exactly where the military industrial complex wants foreign policy…. more wars, bigger wars….. more and bigger things that go boom… and cost a boat load of money…. TO Hell with the people…. feed the beast…
A foreign affairs expert I know suspects that US gave Russia the Georgians in exchange for US getting Iran. I hope that is not true, worry it might be.
Many houses in the historic section of Phoenix (hey 40-50 yrs old is historic for Phoenix) still have bomb shelters. Seen them……
Remember that these are the same people that got all tingly at the sight of a manly W in a flight suit showing off his “package.”
And you expected better from them? Silly boy.
For them and the knuckle draggers it was a good week for McSame.
um, no, not really.
In all fairness, the other corporate overlords get a piece of the pie too. Our role as good citizens is to live, buy, die.
Georgia Crushed, US Humiliated, NATO and Europe Split: It Was a Good Week for McCain
And there still remains doubt that McCrazy is Bush III?
Or is it Bush II squared?
(takes a pretty cool calculator to square Roman numerals)
I have one in my house in Illinois. Those 50 year old rations are yummy.
It was NOT a good week for McCain!!!!
McCain showed himself to be a shoot from the hip, idiot.
McCain will get us all killed really quickly…if that is success…welll…
I have question I have been wondering about. Can we PUPS check out the site meter? Maybe LurkingMod can answer that best???
Ultimately, this was meant by Putin as a slap in the face at Bush, who before now has stomped on the globe without resistance.
That has a distressing ring of truth to it.
what happens when you click on it nahant? that will answer your question
i had a friend in Tucson in the 70s who actually lived underground in this giant tank that was a falloout shelter.
he killed himself i heard.
Someone explain it to me….. I want to know why?
Why do corporations want to make the people wage slaves making pennies which will eventually make sure that no one can buy their goods?
Why do Repugs want to ruin the land & water for generations?
Why do they want more and more wars?
Why do not believe in saving our planet for our children?
Is it just selfishness or is it something else?
I just want to understand why they think they are so right and we are so wrong?
– The US has shown itself willing to allow an undisciplined ally to provoke Russia but unable to protect them when Russia reacts in a predictable fashion. As a result, US prestige and influence, as well as claims that it acts responsibly, have suffered yet another serious setback.
Diplomacy is Punish your enemies and reward your friends. If we can’t do that then we can’t make any deals or expect that our deals will be honored.
Only a Kagan or MSM cheerleader for war would think that this is a good week for McCain.
It’s a disaster and the MSM is trying their best to spin it otherwise.
Its these confrontations between Reality and Spin that is costing the MSM viewers and stock price.
Aloha, Suz! How’s the beachcombing going? ;-)
But it’s still good for McCain!! At least it’s good for Rudy!!!
Hey Suzanne is it foggy up your way? Sure socked in here and can’t see the river…
this is the real world, macaca
In Amerika, Party opposes you!
hey pups – i’m kinda busy backstage so is it ok if we chat later? dayam, ya take a few days off for travel and everyone moves stuff around
Unfortunately, teh stupid goes a long way.
silly scarecrow. i know the answer to this one….. it’s because you are looking at all the wrong things. who cares about the people who are affected by all the stuff you mention? you forgot the important news – that according to gallup mccain started the week 3-5 pts behind obama and ended the week at a dead tie.
and that makes it a great week for mccain.
i kid you not.
although i wish i was.
Nah, I’m confident Bush and Condi possess a shrewdness which simply hasn’t been evident during the past 7 1/2 years. In the next few months it will no doubt become apparent that they knew what they were doing all along.
Good evening everyone.
dru – can you give us any more info? for example is the person you spoke with american, european, russian, or…?
Where is it??
At the bottom of the page the FDL sitemeter gots some cool stuff
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Been my theory all along.
It’s bullshit. It’s all about “bragging rights.” The taxpayers of the United States of America have no interests at stake in this conflict.
We were trying to develop a Cuba-like presence on Russia perimeter, and they slapped us down, just as Kennedy did to the Soviet Union in 1962. Duh!
Hallo.
Yeah, I saw that; Obama went from +6 to even in two days, as of yesterday in the Gallup 3-day tracking polls. But why? There was another poll that only 17% had been following the Georgia/Russia story closely. So it will be interesting to see what the weekend does. There’s a theory that nothing is really happening, but who knows?
LOL
If Obama goes on any more religious programs unprepared for the obvious question, he’ll be trailing by a lot.
On Georgia, Obama has been McCain the Lesser.
I like that info but I will be damed if I see it on the page or pages I have open???
After this evening’s performance, BO had better pick a really sharp VP who knows how to attack and will get the base excited.
Mr. Rev. is now more convinced than ever that McSame’s gonna win after watching the performance tonight.
,i>A foreign affairs expert I know suspects that US gave Russia the Georgians in exchange for US getting Iran.
We *GET* the chance to attack Iran, ruin our economy, plunge the world into chaos (which the Russians just *might* wanna exploit, ya know, a little), pretty much guarantee more attacks on American soil with thousands on domestic deaths a near certainty, in exchange for John McCain’s, and his lobbying buddy/foreign policy advisor’s best interests?
Sounds like Condi’s been busy.
She’s a natural.
wigwam, I’m telling ya, McInsane was prepped with the Q’s ahead of time…!
Scarecrow, give our poor punditocracy a break! They’ve only had a week or so to chew over the burning national issue of John Edwards’ love affair in 2006. How can you expect them to deal with this boring foreign policy stuff when there a sex story about a Democrat to fantasize about?
That Ruth Marcus/Rich Lowry appearance Friday on the PBS Newshour you mention was pathetic. The whole segment was devoted to the two of them agreeing on three things: McCain’s manly posture on Georgia was to swoon over; Vile Hillary and Vile Bill are doing vile things around the Democratic Convention; and, that bad bad John Edwards is a bad bad man because he had an affair. PBS should save some money and just use low-budget computer similations reciting the press scripts of the week back and forth to each other instead of using live actors like Marcus and Lowry.
The good news for McCain is that he knows how to talk to low-information voters. The bad news for McCain is that the low-information voters were all watching something else.
We need a post on Polls the lack of a methodology that we can check, questions about sample size, diversity, who is likely to vote, computer polls which I normally don’t do, regular phone polls which I can’t because I have a cell phone.
The lack of cell phone only people in the polls. Lies and bias in polls like telling the pollster that yes you will vote for an African American even when you won’t.
That kind of thing.
BO had better pick a really sharp VP who knows how to attack and will get the base excited.
Sounds like Howard Dean to me…..
Everyone knows that Republicans live in a world were up is down and night is day. Never forget that the corporate MSM lives in that same world. With very few exceptions the talking heads, newsreaders, et al are memebers of a wealthy elite and are merely promoting those interests that aid their financial success and insure their social status.
Yee-Haw!
I just checked again the sitemeter is working for me Ask Suz.
Atrios has a post that tickets for that church fiasco went for $500-2000 each! Prosperity gospel indeed.
Reverend Rick still has payments to make on his solid gold house and his rocket-car. Shouldn’t be long now, though.
What browser are you using? I have been trying with both FF and Safari?? Will try IE
Now that would be exciting.
But it will never happen.
They don’t believe the world will exist after they die (and it didn’t really exist before they were born).
The rest of us don’t really exist, except when we interact with them, and then they can only handle it in a limited way.
I feel sorry for them, because they’re so limited.
wigwam, I’m telling ya, McInsane was prepped with the Q’s ahead of time…
The only question going into tonight was whether Obama could keep from being buried in this format.
IMO, he did pretty well. But then I’m not Pat Buchanadana, and obviously can’t recognize a total ass-whupping when I see one…
One might be tempted to think that all these kind, gentle Christian souls might have taken exception to the war-pimping of McCrazy tonight, but – aw,… never mind.
I love this question:
“Is there evil in the world??? Does it exist?”
I really do not need lectures from churches that serve the wealthy.
Morals are for those who can afford them the rich man steals a million and the poor man robs a liquor store who does more time?
you assume too much scarecrow;
1) they WANT america’s armed forces to be weak, (so as to make blackwater stronger, and blackwater WILL job out to the highest bidder, even if it’s against america, can you say china?)
2) they WANT our integrity compromised, they DO NOT want us able to broker future peace, they HATE treaties, (remember detante and how cheney deliberately faked data to create endless unrest, they WANT another russia)
3) they WANT nato and europe split, they WANT unrest, they WANT war
they are war monguers, war profiteers, they are NOT american, they are NOT multi national, THEY ARE WAR PROFITEERS
render unto mammon…
Are you looking BELOW the orange navigation bar with the links, FeedRSS/XML Feed-Login-Register-Newsletter-Contact-Privacy? The site meter shows up in FF 3.
That was the second time I’ve seem Ruth Marcus matched with Lowry. It’s bad enough that we normally get Brooks and Shields, who’s not that effective but at least tries to represent his view of the Democratic view. Ruth Marcus is not a representative of Democrats; she’s a WaPo reporter. Lowry is an editor for the conservative mag, National Review, and a shill for McCain’s neocon views. Or course he would approve of McCain’s rhetoric on Georgia, but Marcus would not represent a Democratic response to that framing. Why does PBS/Jim Lehrer see this as a balanced pair to discuss how well the Presidential candidates are doing?
not me. just trying to have some fun with the depressing news.
Is there Evil? What do we do about it?
Obama’s answer was complex…McCain’s was two words “defeat it”
That is the brilliance of the Rove….short and sweet. That is also the destruction of our country.
IMHO, all of the questions that Obama blew were obviously coming. And, he blithered, circled, nuanced, and generally made a fool of himself. If he believes in free choice, he should have said so, said why, and asked for the next question. His five-or-so minutes of equivocation was devastating.
But it will never happen.
We need to convince Howard Dean that his fifty-state strategy can only come to fruition with him leaving his DNC post, and goin’ balls-out for V.P.
hmmmm, you’re right:
not. gonna. happen.
I’ve got a real bad feeling.
America is used to a loser president.
I said a long time ago that there was a karmic negativity price to pay for this war. Very few Americans can feel good about what the Iraq war has done. For all the Iraqi dead, for our economy, for our poor darling dead and wounded American soldiers.
Americans have a poor self image and they cannot vote for anyone who is going to Change That.
And, things are going to get worse.
Yes, this is Demi talking.
We could contact Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church to ask him if he used a 2-headed coin to see who would go first tonight and if he sent the questions to McTeleprompter before hand:
http://saddleback.com/flash/contact.html
I didn’t used to think so but then I heard about your ministry, Reverend Rick…
He is a Naturalized American and has lived all over the world, Lebanon, Switzerland, Central Asia and the Far East. Now retired; grew up all over as the son of a diplomat and has his own vast experience dealing with governments, global markets and spooks. Freaks me out with how often he is right on with his predictions.
Seeing evil question:
Obama’s nuanced answer was not as blunt and straightforward as McLame’s.
I think Obama would have done better to quote St. Paul in Romans 7:21, “So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good, evil lies close at hand.” That would have fit right in with his nuanced answer, and would have given him a biblical source that would give him cred with the evangelicals.
Bob in HI
Here’s the contact info if you have dial-up:
Corona
Citrus Hills Intermediate
3211 South Main Street Corona, CA
Phone:
(951) 239-6633
E-mail:
corona@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
Irvine
4782 Karen Ann Lane
Irvine, CA, 92604
Phone:
(949) 235-4979
E-mail:
irvine@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
Lake Forest (Main Campus)
1 Saddleback Pkwy
Lake Forest, CA 92630
Phone:
(949) 609-8000
E-mail:
info@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
San Clemente
700 Avenida Pico
San Clemente, CA 92673
Phone:
(951) 239-6633
E-mail:
sanclemente@saddleback.net
Directions:
Turn-by-Turn Directions
uh… stoopid here. what was the obvious question?
Georgia Crushed, US Humiliated, NATO and Europe Split: It Was a Good Week for McCain –
It may have been good for John McCain, but it was a GREAT WEEK for Karl Rove —
Operation Cold War Rat Fuck came off without a hitch . . .
Why did Bush and Rice hang out on vacation, after the crisis started?
They thought they had cut a deal with the Russians –
McClatchy, via Mark Kleiman: Unbef*ckinglievable
As Marcy asked — Did Karl Rove Chat to Saakashvili about South Ossetia — on July 9th, just after Saakashvili met with Condi Rice?
Every action the Bush Administration has taken towards Russia in the recent past has been designed to provoke them — recognizing Kosovo, forward basing of missile defenses, Bush in Tbilisi, egging on the crowds about NATO membership . . .
The whole thing stinks of a classic Karl Rove rat fuck –
That is the brilliance of the Rove….short and sweet.
Or the inability of a small mind to deal with a complex metaphysical question.
Gergen giving a very nuanced answer about McC being too ready to hit hard…punch someone. Is that what we really want to go out into the world?
Good question. Night folks.
Maybe Obama should have gone OT and asked them about how their stocks were doing in the Clinton years vs the Bush years.
Maybe Obama could explain to the rich that thanks to Bush devaluing the dollar that they are all worth less than they thought.
Then Obama could explain how McCain spending more money to keep fighting in Iraq would increase the National debt.
The National debt is a tax that collects interest like a credit card and like a credit card the more debt you have the more they charge you for interest because you are a poor credit risk.
lol
thank you.
his prediction has me a bit freaked.
It’s always important to keep track of who “they” are. Are “they” the people who are trying to do “it” to “us”?
Huh. Saddleback Church doesn’t take the time to find out the names of our soldiers in these pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/saddlebackpics
They must use our soldiers as a backdrop to make it look like they care about them.
Well, we know that that “mind” is floating around…
I look to the voting machines…the people are catching on…voter fraud is our problem.
Was McCain prepped? There was a moment when, before McCain was asked the question about which Supreme Court Justice he would not have appointed, he said, “can I come back to that Supreme Court question . . ” although the context was such (maybe the abortion or what is marriage question had been asked) that he could claim he only meant that answering the question led to the issue of Supreme Court nominations. But if you want a conspiracy theory, there was the hint.
Night, RevBev.
wtf? the described decisions make Katrina look like a logistical triumph.
Stoned EarthFirst!ers in the forests have better communications.
Exactly! He was totally unprepared for totally predictable questions. As was Gore in the 2000 debates. And, as was Kerry in the 2004 debates. Apparently, our side is overly confident and/or simply lazy and inept.
g’nite, RevBev
But Obama answered accurately, in the sense that we have evil in our own country. He talked about parents abusing children. If Rick Warren would listen to the tape, not only was Obama more complex, he was pretty good. Unfortunately, we live in a sound bite world.
Of course. Karl Rove rules the POTUS. That is all you need to know. Karl Rove has achieved an insane power status. Nerd.
I agree.
Scarecrow..you nailed it. This was a false flag op from day one whenever that was. Nothing fo good diplomacy like a huge blunder aside from getting a lot of people dead and wounded. The fourth estate remains our problem. Without an objective press the voters will never have the informatiom to make the informed decision and Democracy framed by the founders is in word only.
There has to be another way to skinthis cat. Whining will not get it done only makes us look weak.
Why would you say he’s a nerd? I came across this boyhood picture of Rove, back when Foghorn Leghorn was courtin’ his Ma.
Hmmm…sounds like MSM is further annointing McCain…because Obama’s answers were longer and complex….McCain’s straitforward.
Fasten your seatbelts….sh*t.
Heh, heh…!!!
“We thought we had an understanding with the Russians that any response would be South Ossetia-focused. Clearly it’s not.”
That is our Diplomatic Policy an agreement of the cool kids? Looks to me like the Bush White House has just managed to get America thrown out of the cool kids club of people you can’t screw on a deal.
I don’t think the MSM can spin this away but they are trying long term this hurts McCain.
Also who says we have a deal? Russia can ask for more at anytime because we have no leverage or troops to spare. Are the realist Neocons relying on Russia’s good will to keep the peace a carrot with no stick diplomacy?
The Russians though have winter coming and the ability to turn off their oil and natural gas pipelines as leverage to up the ante if they want.
All of our chips/troops are in Iraq we can’t gamble with Russia if all our chips/troops are at the table with Iraq.
Making bets at the table you can’t pay is not smart.
You miss the point —
Karl Rove planned the whole thing — provoking Russia; setting up Georgia; giving assurances to the Georgian President that the USA was behind them 1000%; reaching an understanding with the Russians that they would only “crack heads” in South Ossetia — knowing full well that the Russians had been provoking Georgia years, looking for an opportunity to hit back, and hit back hard.
Presto Chango, an Instant Cold War, to benefit John McCain –
The same Senator McCain that says he talks to the Georgian President two or three times a day . . .
Who is the agent provocateur, and who pulls the strings?
John McCain — or Karl Rove?
They are all complicit — Bush, Rove, and McCain . . .
Right just watch the coroporate cash roll in…McSame had his marching orders…now the cash register is ringing and promises are being made to the oligarchy. All that Blackwater money…some will be coming back. This is a fight for fascism. (in the homeland turf Orange County California)
Was McCain prepped? There was a moment when, before McCain was asked the question about which Supreme Court Justice he would not have appointed, he said, “can I come back to that Supreme Court question . .
that’s true – kinda flew past me as it happened. Whether he was prepped, or whether the ‘cone of silence’ failed exclude staff running in to tell McCain the questions….
I dunno, but that is suspicious.
It’s so sad to me to have a well-spoken, competent man, able to deal with issues thoughtfully and comprehensively – become an underdog to the guy who can give simple (*very* simple) short answers because John Q. Citizen has the attention-span of a particularly dim mosquito.
Oh, and the fact that the pundits, MSM and news editors follow the lead of the dim mosquito pisses me off just a little bit too. /s
Julia is upstairs!
Uncle John’s cabin
Obama somehow seems allergic to saying the name McCain.
For a concise analysis on how to lose the election go here. Well laid out and so far going according to plan.
You can also add in that this misapprehended action by the Georgians has led to a termination of oil shipments through several pipelines through Georgia, an increasing reliance by Europeans on the Russian pipelines…and re-evaluation by the Central Asian Republics of plans to ship oil to CHINA.
So this is good for China, China’s State-run Petroleum industry, and Chinese hegemony in the region.
I suppose that one could argue that this might also foster a re-evaluation of the pipeline plans via Afghanistan and Pakistan…if we could simply get those pesky Taliban fighters out of the way.
BTW Where in the world IS Osama bin Laden?
In the immortal words of Casey Stengel, “Can’t anyone here play this game?”
Rove probably set up the situation but I do not think it is going to play out as planned even though the MSM keeps saying that this was a good week for McCain.
Everyone knows that Russia still has troops in Georgia.
Every other fact the MSM says about the situation is spin.
Orange County is the home of the Golden Triangle where the 5 the 405 and the Newport Freeways intersect. Within that boundary is some of the biggest corporations in the world. Many of the people at that Church are employed by Big Brother. Many of the companies in Iraq are contractors.
We are seeing the frist in a series of events to sew up the conservative areas. Mo doubt Rove has created a strategy theso thi campain and the Georgia South Osetia insident was part. Remeber it was initiated by this administration. McSame i proving the war machine with assurances that their cash register will be full. Its about the money. And wars are east to start.
Then Russia got something worth having, and the US got a booby prize.
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